Do Petrified Summons make for great statues?

[Scryangi]

Good day, everyone. Remember when Elan made a "kick ass tombstone"? Could I do that? Summon a creature, petrify it, and it will remain on this plane? Even if the statue later breaks? Would Summon Nature's Ally make a difference since it's from nature and not some far off plane?

Would enlarging the animal before petrification make a permanently large statue?

Thank you for all the help. :-)

[Segev]

I think, per the RAW, the statue would remain until the spell ends, and then vanish. As all effects fail to follow the summoned creature, the creature itself would be fine back where it came from.

Called creatures would remain petrified and present indefinitely, though.

[Inevitability]

A petrified creature is still a creature, so it'd probably return normally.

However, by coating the statue in a thin layer of quintessence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/quintessence.htm) or Unguent of Timelessness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#unguentofTimelessness), you could get around the issue. The first solution is far harder to get, but the second would only slightly increase the time you have a statue: a summoned monster that'd usually stick around for a minute would remain for a little over six hours.

[Scryangi]

Awww. There goes my idea for a villain with a monster gnome garden.

Does a petrified creature not count as an object? Corpses do, right? And Stone to Flesh cast on a real statue specifically creates a corpse, not a statue shaped blob of flesh. There seems to be something strange in the rules here.

[Inevitability]

Awww. There goes my idea for a villain with a monster gnome garden.

Does a petrified creature not count as an object? Corpses do, right? And Stone to Flesh cast on a real statue specifically creates a corpse, not a statue shaped blob of flesh. There seems to be something strange in the rules here.

There's actual RAW reason to believe corpses are just creatures with the dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#dead) condition.

[Scryangi]

There's actual RAW reason to believe corpses are just creatures with the dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#dead) condition.


Ah.

How did V cast Shrink Item on Haley's statue then?

[Inevitability]

Ah.

How did V cast Shrink Item on Haley's statue then?

OotS is most definitely not a primary rules source, and some of the stuff happening there simply contradicts RAW.

[Segev]

Is there any rule - actually written rule - which would cause resurrection cast on a corpse created by using stone to flesh on a real, ordinary statue to fail to bring that corpse to life?

Could such a corpse be the target of animate dead or create (greater) undead? Could you use speak with dead, and would that let you learn what the statue "saw" over the ages?

[Scryangi]

Is there any rule - actually written rule - which would cause resurrection cast on a corpse created by using stone to flesh on a real, ordinary statue to fail to bring that corpse to life?

Could such a corpse be the target of animate dead or create (greater) undead? Could you use speak with dead, and would that let you learn what the statue "saw" over the ages?

Wow, those are all awesome questions. I just read a thread about corpses being objects in 5E and thus being viable targets for Animate Object.

http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/55951/is-a-dead-creatures-body-considered-an-object

[GilesTheCleric]

You could turn the summon into a statue, then cover it with plaster of paris or clay to make a mould. Once it disappears, fill the hollow with cement or something, and you have a statue. The drying time of the plaster or clay might be a problem, but you could use the unguent of timelessness solution above, or possibly a spell like Desiccate.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Is there any rule - actually written rule - which would cause resurrection cast on a corpse created by using stone to flesh on a real, ordinary statue to fail to bring that corpse to life?

Could such a corpse be the target of animate dead or create (greater) undead? Could you use speak with dead, and would that let you learn what the statue "saw" over the ages?

Resurrection would fail because of the "the soul needs to be free and willing to return" clause. Statues have no souls.
Animate Dead would work though, since StF explicitly turns a statue into a corpse. Keep in mind that it can't be larger than a 3ftx10ft cylinder though, so probably nothing larger than medium.
Speak with Dead would fail because it can only give answers to things it knew in life, and statues were never alive. That's what Stone Tell is for.

[Psyren]

Is there any rule - actually written rule - which would cause resurrection cast on a corpse created by using stone to flesh on a real, ordinary statue to fail to bring that corpse to life?

Yes:


In addition, the subject’s soul must be free and willing to return.

Anything without a soul would fail this requirement.

EDIT: somehow ninja'd by a sleepy phoenix of all things

[Scryangi]

But can you make them undead?

[Psyren]

But can you make them undead?

Yep - a corpse is a corpse and can be animated. You're just powering the inert flesh with negative energy, which is a hell of a lot easier than creating a soul out of nothing to inhabit it. It's really just a squickier version of animate objects at that point.

[Segev]

Yep - a corpse is a corpse and can be animated. You're just powering the inert flesh with negative energy, which is a hell of a lot easier than creating a soul out of nothing to inhabit it. It's really just a squickier version of animate objects at that point.

Does raise some interesting questions when you use create (greater) undead to make intelligent ones. Particularly, say, vampires, which are traditionally thought of as retaining the original's personality.

[Scryangi]

And what about making a statue of a giant creature, turning it into flesh, and then undead? And adding vampire teeth before you turned it to flesh? :D

[Inevitability]

Does raise some interesting questions when you use create (greater) undead to make intelligent ones. Particularly, say, vampires, which are traditionally thought of as retaining the original's personality.

Neither Create Undead nor Create Greater Undead can bring forth vampires, though.

Even if it could, vampire is a template. If there's no base creature to apply it to, one would assume the spell fails.

[Inevitability]

And what about making a statue of a giant creature, turning it into flesh, and then undead? And adding vampire teeth before you turned it to flesh? :D

Well, you'd have a giant zombie with pointy teeth it probably wouldn't be able to use in combat. So yeah, not that useful.

[Scryangi]

Well, you'd have a giant zombie with pointy teeth it probably wouldn't be able to use in combat. So yeah, not that useful.

Not that useful? Attack, my Zombie Statue Of Liberty! Use your man sized teeth!

[Segev]

Neither Create Undead nor Create Greater Undead can bring forth vampires, though.My bad; I thought it did.


Even if it could, vampire is a template. If there's no base creature to apply it to, one would assume the spell fails."Zombie" and "Skeleton" are also templates.

I assume the corpse is of whatever race the statue was representing. A statue of an elf thus becomes an elven corpse.

[Strigon]

There's actual RAW reason to believe corpses are just creatures with the dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#dead) condition.

Does that mean - theoretically - one could Iron Heart Surge away death? Assuming you could take an action to do so, of course.
Because if so, my new reason for existing is creating a character that can actually do that. It may be unoptimal, it may be convoluted, it may cause any sane GM to kick me out of their game, but dagnabbit I want a character that can overcome death through sheer force of will!

[Inevitability]

Does that mean - theoretically - one could Iron Heart Surge away death? Assuming you could take an action to do so, of course.
Because if so, my new reason for existing is creating a character that can actually do that. It may be unoptimal, it may be convoluted, it may cause any sane GM to kick me out of their game, but dagnabbit I want a character that can overcome death through sheer force of will!

Any crusader can already do that by default. :smalltongue:

[sleepyphoenixx]

And what about making a statue of a giant creature, turning it into flesh, and then undead? And adding vampire teeth before you turned it to flesh? :D

You're still limited by the size limitation of Stone to Flesh - a 3ft x 10ft cylinder. So no giant anythings.
Even large is very unlikely unless you can find a large creature that is less than 3ft wide and at most 10ft tall.

There's considerable DM fiat involved anyway.
How do you determine what kind of corpse your statue becomes?
Do you just say "Elf Statue" even if you have no crafting skill whatsoever? Do you need to make a crafting check? How high?

Do corpses created with Stone to Flesh actually have bones or are you restricted to zombies for Animate Dead? Or do they fail the "must have a true anatomy" requirement too?
You could still use Create Undead (it just needs "a corpse"), but it would be a pretty big limit on necromancers.

[Strigon]

Any crusader can already do that by default. :smalltongue:

Yeah, but that's just delaying death, not overcoming it.
Although I suppose whatever killed you, unless it was a death effect, would still be there afterwards; you'd still be at 0 Con or -10 HP.

[icefractal]

There's considerable DM fiat involved anyway.
How do you determine what kind of corpse your statue becomes?
Do you just say "Elf Statue" even if you have no crafting skill whatsoever? Do you need to make a crafting check? How high?This. Animating things that were never creatures raises a whole barrel of issues. Take a statue of an elf, for instance. It could be:
* A basic elf with all their stats being 3, or 10, or 18.
* An 20th level elf (class levels are lost but the ability score increases remain) that started with straight 18s and then used Wishes for +5 to every stat.
* As above, but with the Paragon template.
* As above, but with every single template that can be applied at once.

And many of those don't look very different from each other, visually speaking.

If I was ruling it, I'd probably say that no templates are possible, and it's assumed to be the base version of the creature from the MM. But that's just a personal ruling, there's no definitive RAW.

[Zanos]

There's actual RAW reason to believe corpses are just creatures with the dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#dead) condition.
Gentle Repose (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gentleRepose.htm) targets corpses, and has a saving throw line of Will negates(Object). This indicates that corpses are objects.


You're still limited by the size limitation of Stone to Flesh - a 3ft x 10ft cylinder. So no giant anythings.

You can bypass that with shrink item.