Disguise self and cantrip friends

[Sir cryosin]

If you disguise yourself as somebody else and then cast friends on somebody if you come back looking like your normal self but they know that you influence them with the spell friends or what they think that the other person was the person who cast a spell.

[brainface]

I would say that they know their mind was mucked with by someone who looked like your disguise. If you disguised as Fred the Fighter, and your erstwhile friend knows Fred the Fighter couldn't magic or act himself out of a paper bag, he's not going to think Fred the Fighter messed with his mind, but he won't automatically know it's you either.

[Coffee_Dragon]

If the question is whether the victim magically senses it was you behind the disguise, the answer is who knows, DM decides. Otherwise, it's pretty much the same as for doing anything mean, disruptive, destructive or annoying while in disguise.

[mgshamster]

Also, how long does the hostility last?

Will they be forever hostile towards you with no way to change it?

[Aett_Thorn]

Also, how long does the hostility last?

Will they be forever hostile towards you with no way to change it?

How long would you stay hostile towards someone that you knew had messed with your emotions and mind?

[Breaklance]

How long would you stay hostile towards someone that you knew had messed with your emotions and mind?

Until the hangover ends but I can't hate alcohol

Ba dum tssss

But yeah I'd say unless the shop has magical protection or something, which could be very likely in a high end shop in a big city (also exactly what my DM did to me after a few uses of this combination) they probably wouldn't know it was you since you were disguised

I'd argue shops wouldn't have like a barrier that removes magical effects cause that'd be pretty rude to your customers to strip off their Mage armor or something but a shopkeeper dealing in magical artifacts could very likely have a necklace that prevents charms or wear glasses with heartsight/truesight

[Sir cryosin]

How long would you stay hostile towards someone that you knew had messed with your emotions and mind?

I don't know but you might want to ask my ex.
X )

[Ashrym]

How long would you stay hostile towards someone that you knew had messed with your emotions and mind?

Who said it does end? That depends on the actions of the characters to change the NPC attitude towards that character permanently as per DMG guidelines, which is DM determined.

[nilshai]

I'd argue shops wouldn't have like a barrier that removes magical effects cause that'd be pretty rude to your customers to strip off their Mage armor or something but a shopkeeper dealing in magical artifacts could very likely have a necklace that prevents charms or wear glasses with heartsight/truesight

That shopkeeper rolled well on the hoard table, right before he ripped out his hair rolling crap on the item table. :P


Who said it does end? That depends on the actions of the characters to change the NPC attitude towards that character permanently as per DMG guidelines, which is DM determined.

I'd kill someone who did this to me on sight.

[JackPhoenix]

I'd argue shops wouldn't have like a barrier that removes magical effects cause that'd be pretty rude to your customers to strip off their Mage armor or something but a shopkeeper dealing in magical artifacts could very likely have a necklace that prevents charms or wear glasses with heartsight/truesight

The only reason you would use Mage Armor is if you're expecting to get in a fight. If you expect to get in a fight while, you're likely planning to rob that shop, in that case, dispelling barrier is a good thing. If you have other reasons, well, entering shops prepared for battle is rude too. The shop will likely have a warning that it uses such measures, just like we have warning that shops have security cameras.

Of course, most shops won't be equiped with such high-end security measures. However, even if magic is rare, it isn't unknown, this is a simple, low level trick available to most of existing casters, and if you use it, the merchants will report it to the town watch, which will likely have a spellcaster on their payroll trained to deal with this kind of criminality. Perhaps some homebrewed CSI aura detection spells or rituals that help them find the true perp, or something like that.

Given the description of rarity of magic items, some random adventurer wouldn't be able to visit an magic item merchant (if such a merchant even exists) in the first place, he would be more like an auction broker with good security only dealing with influential people like nobles and rich merchants, propably only after prior appointment.

[Ashrym]

I'd kill someone who did this to me on sight.

That is the nature of the cantrip. There is no duration on the hostility after the spell ends. The spell ends and then the target is hostile toward the caster. Presumably because it seems to be portrayed as somehow abusive. People don't become hostile because of a pleasant experience.

The cantrip goes on to state the target of friends might attack after it expires if prone to violence while others might seek retribution in other ways. It literally creates enemies.

The DMG has guidelines on long term attitude changes. That's what the is used for long term change.

[Breaklance]

The only reason you would use Mage Armor is if you're expecting to get in a fight. If you expect to get in a fight while, you're likely planning to rob that shop, in that case, dispelling barrier is a good thing. If you have other reasons, well, entering shops prepared for battle is rude too. The shop will likely have a warning that it uses such measures, just like we have warning that shops have security cameras.

Of course, most shops won't be equiped with such high-end security measures. However, even if magic is rare, it isn't unknown, this is a simple, low level trick available to most of existing casters, and if you use it, the merchants will report it to the town watch, which will likely have a spellcaster on their payroll trained to deal with this kind of criminality. Perhaps some homebrewed CSI aura detection spells or rituals that help them find the true perp, or something like that.

Given the description of rarity of magic items, some random adventurer wouldn't be able to visit an magic item merchant (if such a merchant even exists) in the first place, he would be more like an auction broker with good security only dealing with influential people like nobles and rich merchants, propably only after prior appointment.

I was only using mage armor as an example :p could be people are using disguise self to hide some hideous scarring or a draconic sorceror using it to hide his scales.

I was being a bit cavalier with the example situation though.

While there may be some realistic problems with shopkeepers having magic items of such rarity my DM did it cause he didn't want me stealing from every single vendor and doing all of the shopping for the entire party. Though if kings and such are assumed to have magical protection to keep them from being controlled in such a way a significantly rich merchant could afford similar if not as extensive magical protection. Big city merchants on the nice parts of the city who are likely to have a decent number of magical clientele could do this

I think the point is that while you could do this combination to get away with some items doing so repeatedly would likely draw your DMs ire.

Using it for other situations though probably wouldn't. Such as disguising as a member of the guard or cultists your infiltrating using friends to gain info or keys and then running away so that the bad guys think it was one of their own who charmed them. There are still logistical holes in this such as stated by others like "what if they know Bob (who your posing as) can't use magic" then the bad guys are likely to figure out there are intruders about and take precautions against it.

[Stan]

I think they'd have to manually put 2 and 2 together to make the connection. They wouldn't automatically be hostile to the real you.

The spell description for disguise self mentions that it's not perfect and gives the possibility of an investigation check to figure out that it's a disguise. I figure that they'd have to beat the check by 10 to identify who you are (and not just know that you are not who you look like) if they've never met the real you, with the penalty going down as they see more versions of you. Someone who has recently been fooled is going to attempt a check on everyone who comes in. Once they realize that you are disguised, they are going to become hostile (which negates the effect of Friends), even if they don't recognize you, and would try to apprehend you.

A wise character would never try this scam twice with the same shop.