Looking for Tips and suggestions for a low level Sphere of Power Character

[Minwaabi]

Hi folks,

I'm working on building a Spheres of Power Character for an upcoming low level campaign and I'm looking for any tips and suggestions people have. I'm currently thinking of either building an Eliciter because it just sounds interesting or an Incanter to cover *all* the magical needs of the party and to get a better feel for the Spheres system.

Please note that we are starting at level 1 and have a hard level cap at Level 6 (so I don't care about what I can do when I'm level 10 or how to get around a CR12's defenses). I do want to know what will be useful at low levels. Also, I'm avoiding the Conjuration sphere altogether per the GM's advice/rules (I think it conflicts with the Campaign's fluff and I don't want to play a summoner anyway). Additionally, I will be taking at least the base Life Sphere so we have access to healing without a UMD check. Oh, and yes, I am the only caster in the party.

I'd love any and all suggestions or tips folks have on which Spheres or talents would be most helpful to have, but I'd also like to know:

How good is the mind sphere really? Most of the guides I've ever read suggest to stay away from focusing on save or suck spells.
What spheres that would be most useful to a party with no other casters?

[AmberVael]

If your party has no other spellcasters, I'd recommend incanter since having more talents and a higher overall caster level will allow you to better address a wider range of spellcasting needs.

Divination could allow you to detect and sense things that an otherwise nonmagical party could easily miss, such as magic, invisible enemies, etc. It can also allow you to gain information that would otherwise be inaccessible. Talents of particular interest are Ghost Sight and Viewing. (Also consider the Divine Time alternate divination from the Diviner's Handbook).

Life is something I would strongly consider investing at least a little more in if there won't be much more magic in the party, as it may be one of the only ways to remove adverse conditions. Talents of particular interest are Break Enchantment, Restore Soul, and Resuscitate.

Warp is very useful, whether as a dip or as a larger investment. Teleportation can allow you to bypass certain obstacles, and with things like Teleport Beacon, can let you swiftly cross larger distances and return to a safe area. Talents of particular interest are Group Teleport, Unseeing Teleport, and Teleport Beacon.


Like most mind-affecting abilities, the Mind Sphere can be very useful, but has some pretty strict limitations. Heavy investment may leave you ineffective in a lot of situations, but a dip into Mind can work wonders. The base ability is pretty good, Read Mind can be great. Strongly consider Expanded Charm though, as it will greatly broaden your ability to use the sphere. Mind should fare much better in a perpetual low level environment since its counters will be rarer.

[Mehangel]

If your party has no other spellcasters, I'd recommend incanter since having more talents and a higher overall caster level will allow you to better address a wider range of spellcasting needs.

Actually, if your party has no other spellcasters, I would recommend playing a Hedgewitch (with the Spiritualist as one of it's two traditions). This will allow you to pull up any sphere at a moment's notice a couple times per day, which can literally be a life saver.

[stack]

As the only caster, verstility will be important. As said above, Incanter is the way to go. Consider hedgewitch with spiritualism as well, even just for a short dip to be able to pull off stuff out of your hat on the fly. Most days you don't need to grant swim speeds or remove poison, but the day you do...

I would focus on the spheres and talents that maximize your options. Alteration works as a buff and debuff while also having utility (elemental transformation grants fly and burrow speeds for example). Creation is mostly bound by your creativity. Illusion I feel takes more talents than you might want for full functionality but even the basics could be useful depending on how illusions are used at your table.

Life eats a lot of talents if try to be able to fix everything, but grabbing the base sphere, mass cure, and rejuvenate is efficient out of combat healing (or buy a core wand or SoP wondrous item to do the same).

I would probably cherry pick the best and most versatile stuff from every sphere. Don't specialize, use the feats for more talents or spell points. You need to cover an entire party's worth of casting.

With a bunch of martials, enhancement may be worth a look too.

[Minwaabi]

Thanks for the advice on the Spirtualist Hedgewitch. I missed that one. Any advice on the following ideas:

I'm going to go incanter with a dip in Spiritualist Hedgewitch. I'm thinking of going STR 8, DEX 14, CON 12, INT 18 (+2), WIS 10, CHA 8 and probably go with Human for the extra feats = extra magic.

At first level, I'll take Life, and Divination, so I can heal and detect magic (with detect life as a bonus).

I'd also like some battlefield control, I see three decent paths:

Dark (Snagging Darkness): Reflex Save or entangled in a 10ft + 5ft per 2 caster level area. Also makes the area dim light or absolute darkness which can mess with things sight. This is an at will (so free) ability that only uses concentration. ;; Cost: 2 talents and usually free to use but 1 sp makes it last for 1min/CL without concentration

Nature (Plants): Entangle - Reflex Save or entangled in 5ft + 5 ft per 5 caster level area. This area is difficult terrain. If the plants have thorns then 1pt of piercing damage per round. This is an at will (so free ability) that only uses concentration ;; Cost: usually free to use but 1 sp makes it last for 1 round/CL without concentration also 1 extra sp if no plants are around
Growth - 1 spell point = food for 3 medium creatures or 1 horse per caster level for a day also 1 extra sp if no plants are around
Pummel - Create a tree that does damage to opponents - complicated formula that breaks down to (until level 5): To hit: 1.5*CL Damage: 1d6+.5CL -- Problem I see is the tree can't move so you get 1 whack;; Cost: usually free to use but 1 sp makes it last for 1 round/CL without concentration also 1 extra sp if no plants are around
This whole package only costs 1 talent, but none of it works if there are no plants so it really costs 2 talents and you have to spend an sp to use the package if no plants

Destruction: (energy focus: swap basic blast for crystal blast and grab explosive orb) : Explosive orb does 1d4 per 2 CL damage to everything in 10ft + 5 ft per 5 caster levels (reflex for half) and reflex save or entangled. This area is difficult terrain. Unlike the others this requires the same STR or Escape artist check or you can just choose to destroy the crystal. Also, only those hit by the blast have to save against entangle, people entering afterwards don't have this problem. Lasts for 1 min.;; Cost: 2 talents, 1 spell point (extra spell point doubles damage)
Crystal Blast also gives me the at will ability to target a creature with a ray for the same damage and debuffs. (This is free)

Which seems the most versatile? It seems to me that Destruction is the way to go. I get a reliable way to do damage and debuff an opponent at will, I can deal with swarms with the orb (even if I don't do a lot of damage I can at least hit them), and I can BFC with the orb as well against more conventional targets. But maybe I'm missing something.

If I go human, I'll still have 3 feats I can spend for more magic, unless I take the Nature (plants) and hope I don't need to control the battle while indoors (in which case I have 4). I get 6 Spell points per day unless I missed something.

At this point I can do detect magic and detect life, heal the party of hp and a handful of other problems (fatigue, ability damage), (probably do damage), debuff a little and BFC a little. So it seems a few utility spells or buffs would be handy. What might be helpful here?

Things I'm thinking of include: Basic Warp sphere (the monk will love that and it could get around obstacles maybe), Invisibility (disappear/invisibility) - the rogue will love me and honestly who doesn't like +2 to attack, opponent denied dex, and 50% miss chance? - this also gives me detect illusions, Mind(empath/Inspire) - handy? buff ; but Alteration also has some nifty things. But a lot of these seem less versatile than others. Thoughts?

[stack]

If you are only dipping briefly in hedgewitch, think about your talents I terms of 'What I need NOW' and 'What I need after taking a standard action to get it.' Most divinations can afford to wait, though having the base sphere is good. Primary offense/bfc can't wait. Odd heals can wait.

If you expect to be outside a lot, plant life is very economical.

I am fond of destruction, personally, and the Crystal blast explosive orb is a nice trick when you only want a little destruction. Orb master feat brings the cost down at the expense of reduced area, great for swarms and removes the need for PBS and precise shot for destructive blast accuracy.

All the options you list at the end are solid. With SoP you can't have it all, which means tough choices when you are the only caster. Strength based melee will love alteration, mass alteration, size change for reach and strength boosts. Elemental transformation costs extra SP but gives maximum verstility for a single talent. Illusion and invisibility is a handy trick and cheap if you grab the vanisher drawback. Lots of ways you can go.

[Minwaabi]

So, I was looking at the Alteration sphere a bit more and I was wondering: If I transform myself into an elemental, can I still cast spells if I have the somatic drawback? (Assuming I have the easy focus boon or spend a spell point to not concentrate?)

Also, in the Alteration sphere, I noticed Dragon Transformation. This effectively gives me a somewhat circumstantial access to line/cone spells, acid, electricity, fire, and cold damage types for 1 talent and no spell points. I'd imagine I can't cast spells in this form since I dob't have arms anymore, but maybe I'm wrong? However, even if I can't cast, I can always change back as a free action and cast a spell if that's what the situation needs. The darkvision and natural armor +2 are just extras. And this transformation is free. This seems like it might be a better spot for a talent than elemental transformation since I would want those abilities immediately in the circumstance where they are most needed and they are free anyway. How often do you need to transform someone into an elemental immediately? I'm thinking dragon transformation for the talent and have hedgewitch cover the odd time when I actually need to grant special movement modes.

I also noticed that my character can't see in the dark so I was wondering about Light/touch of light: revealing light. That's highly specific and circumstantial, but I'll often want to see in the dark for free and fighting invisible things is annoying and not something pure martials are great at. At the very least, having something in the light sphere sounds good for the purposes of seeing in the dark and for the hedgewitch option of taking revealing light, but is there a better option to put the talent in? Just take the base sphere with no drawbacks?

Also: rituals? Worth a feat or not?

[stack]

You can add the breath weapon as a trait to any form, including blank form. Elemental should have no trouble with verbal and somatic components. Dragon shape allows both as well if I recall. Dragons can cast normal spells so I listed dragons as being able to supply somatic components on the table in the shapeshifter's handbook.

For just seeing in the dark yourself, alteration can give darkvision. Revealing light is a good way to help the party though, since options in divination require more investment to share. Repelling light would also help keep enemies off you. Grabbing revealing as needed isn't a bad plan at low levels.

[Mithril Leaf]

If you're the only caster I don't want to recommend going for 6 levels in anything (Except for maybe some Fey Adept variant). I would instead recommend dipping a level into 6 different full casters which is a large increase in number of talents you'll get, plus some solid CL boosts. Also since you'll need to be versatile, really consider taking some sphere specific drawbacks. Also the Wild Magic Feats in Stack's upcoming Wild Magic book would be very useful, one of them trades Wild Magic chance for a sweet bonus talent. My level recommendation would be:
1 Specialized Incanter
1 Sphere Wizard
1 Sphere Sorcerer
1 Eldritch Cultist Thaumaturge
1 Sphere Oracle (Only if going for Death)/1 Sphere Druid (taking the domain ability)
1 Sphere Cleric/1 Sphere Witch
This nets you an at will +2 CL from Thaumaturge, 15 talents at level 6, instead of the 14 from pure baseline Incanter, Inspired Surge gives you the ability to pick up some bonus talents instead of dipping into Hedgewitch, and you have +1 CL to 3 different Spheres, Death being probably the highest priority, and I like Creation.
As the only caster you will 100% want Creation with the Practiced Creation feat because it gives you nearly unlimited out of combat utility in way nobody else provides. Death is also really good, but go ahead and trade out the ability to use Ghost Strike at range. Alteration has tons of great drawbacks, but the duration isn't great without ever reaching level 10.

[Minwaabi]

I have two questions left: 1. Which seems more useful? Improved Initiative for the +4 to Initiative or Extra talent for more magic? (Probably taking invisiblity or Mind:inspire).

2. How does multiclassing work anyway? I thought you just added up the stuff you get from each level of each class. Wouldn't Mithral Leaf's suggestion leave me with a CL of +1? I mean, I'll get +1 to 3 different spheres, but wouldn't a +5 be way better? Also, the only 3rd party book we're allowed at our table is the base SoP book, so I don't know what half that stuff is/does and it wouldn't be allowed anyway.

Is this correct for Incanter5/Hedgewitch1? At 2nd level (when I dip), I'll have CL +1, Talents: 2(+2), base attack +0, will save +4, ability to pick a magic talent/combat feat 4 times per day. At 6th level with Incanter 5/Hedgewitch 1, I'll have CL +5, Talents 8 (+2), base attack +2, Fort/Ref +1, Will +6, ability to pick a magic talent/combat feat 4 times per day, and 3 bonus feats for magical stuff.

But if I go with something close to Mitral Leaf's suggestion, wouldn't I have at 6th level a CL +1, Talents: 13(+2), base attack +0, fort save +4, ref 0, Will 12???? I get the talents by: incanter 2 +1 from specialization, sphere wizard: 2 + 1 from specialization, sphere sorcerer: 1 + 1 from specialization, thaumaturge : 0, sphere druid: 1 + 1 from domain, sphere cleric: 1 + 1 from channeling, + 1 from domain, and one magic bonus feat, I'd also get +1 CL to 3 spheres, and the whole +2 CL w/15% chance of blowing up in my face thing?

[stack]

Incanter and wizard specialization are the same feature, thus your levels stack for the proression of that feature; you don't get to specialize in two different spheres. At least that is my understanding of the intent, the language does not specify that you have to stick to the same one, don't recall if it got picked up in errata.

Also, dipping into a different class every level looks sloppy and I suspect most DM's would consider it questionable.

In SoP, CL stacks the same way BAB does. So incanter 2/fey adept 3 has CL5 for all spheres (baring specialization or other boosts. Hedgewitch 1/incatner 3/elementalist 6 would have CL 7, 9 for destruction. Add incanter specialization in destruction and it has CL 7, 10 for destruction.

Stacking saves with a ton of dips tend to be odd. Many DMs use fractional BAB and saves to remedy this (bad save if +1/3 per level, good save is +1/2 per level with a +2 bonus that you only ever get once). If you have fractional BAB you should probably use fractional CL as well (so hedgewitch gets .75 CL and BAB per level, incanter 1 CL and .5 BAB, mageknight .5 CL and 1 BAB, etc.).

[Ualaa]

When you take your first sphere casting level, you can select traditions and drawbacks.

One drawback my party likes is the 'Disappearance' from Illusion.
That gets you Invisibility as a free talent.
Losing illusions can hurt, but if you'd like the equivalent of Greater Invisibility as your main Illusion thing... the bad guys don't see you easily, as you can freely.

I'd look hard at 'Aligned Combatant' from Destruction.
That would allow you (assuming you're good, the party is good, and most of the bad guys are evil, with other foes being neutral if they're animals/oozes/constructs and the like).
You could spam an AoE on the party, deal no damage to good characters, full damage to evil characters, and half damage to neutral guys.
Then you don't have to 'aim' your orbs, just hit everyone.
I'm not sure if -- immune to your damage, would also make them immune to the lingering Crystals on the ground, to avoid the snare effect of a Crystal Blast, but if that's the case even better.

[stack]

The rider effects are triggered on 'Creature that takes damage', so if you are immune to the blast you don't eat the rider. Crystal blast would still make difficult terrain though.

[Minwaabi]

The rider effects are triggered on 'Creature that takes damage', so if you are immune to the blast you don't eat the rider. Crystal blast would still make difficult terrain though.

Is that true for Crystal blast as well? Should that be erratad? Acid, Fire, Frost, Nether, and Thunder all include the line: "targets who take damage..." <have this extra thing happen to them. Air explicitly states that a target successfully struck by the blast or that fails their reflect saving throw if one was required is affected and <this thing happens to targets who are affected>. But such a line is conspicuously absent from the Crystal blast. Crystal blast just says, "The target of your crystal blast must make a reflex save or be entangled..." Could be a mistake, but I think it could be intentional too. At any rate the fluff/mechanics makes sense: failed the reflex save for entangled but didn't take damage? You are basically trapped in a cage made out of Crystal (or some part of your body is trapped). Took damage but made the reflex save? You got stabbed by a crystal, but you aren't trapped. Both? Then you got stabbed and your stuck.


Also, any thoughts on this one? Which seems more useful? Improved Initiative for the +4 to Initiative or Extra talent for more magic? (Probably taking invisiblity or Mind:inspire).

[Ualaa]

Going first is a big one for me.
As a caster, DEX is usually my second stat, partially for Initiative.
My talent is usually +2 initiative.
I almost always have Improved Initiative, at least early in the build.

Being able to place the battlefield control, when it is most useful.
Being able to cast the defensive spell, like Greater Invisibility or Fly.

That said, you're the only caster... so cover a lot of things.
How high is your initiative, base (without) the feat?

[Afgncaap5]

How good is the mind sphere really? Most of the guides I've ever read suggest to stay away from focusing on save or suck spells.

:smalleek:



Is that true for Crystal blast as well? Should that be erratad? Acid, Fire, Frost, Nether, and Thunder all include the line: "targets who take damage..." <have this extra thing happen to them. Air explicitly states that a target successfully struck by the blast or that fails their reflect saving throw if one was required is affected and <this thing happens to targets who are affected>. But such a line is conspicuously absent from the Crystal blast. Crystal blast just says, "The target of your crystal blast must make a reflex save or be entangled..." Could be a mistake, but I think it could be intentional too. At any rate the fluff/mechanics makes sense: failed the reflex save for entangled but didn't take damage? You are basically trapped in a cage made out of Crystal (or some part of your body is trapped). Took damage but made the reflex save? You got stabbed by a crystal, but you aren't trapped. Both? Then you got stabbed and your stuck.

My reading has always been that, due to the nature of crystal and what it's doing, that's a case of not needing to take damage. I might be off base, though, but that's one of the things that differentiates it from other similar blasts.


Also, any thoughts on this one? Which seems more useful? Improved Initiative for the +4 to Initiative or Extra talent for more magic? (Probably taking invisiblity or Mind:inspire).

Oof... tough call for me. You'll never see an initiative for combat where +4 to Initiative doesn't get used, but it's not always the most useful. In terms of utility, Inspire can be a great way to boost a teammate who just missed at a critical moment. Invisibility's great for stealth... hmm... gun to my head I'd take Inspire, but that's a toss up for me. (Improved Initiative isn't a feat I ever want to take, but it's a feat that I always wind up wishing I had.)

[Minwaabi]

Going first is a big one for me.
As a caster, DEX is usually my second stat, partially for Initiative.
My talent is usually +2 initiative.
I almost always have Improved Initiative, at least early in the build.

Being able to place the battlefield control, when it is most useful.
Being able to cast the defensive spell, like Greater Invisibility or Fly.

That said, you're the only caster... so cover a lot of things.
How high is your initiative, base (without) the feat?

I have +2 from dex and am planning on taking a trait that gives another +2 so I could have +4 initiative with more magic or +8 initiative.

[Ualaa]

The +4 isn't bad, and for a non-battlefield control type, you'll be respectable.

However, if you're into controlling the battlefield, then +8 is much stronger.
Having that +8, at first level, you'll go first or at least early most of the time.
If you can place a wall, or a pit, difficult terrain, darkness or whatever, you'll modify an impossible fight into a hard fight, or a hard battle into an easy(ier) battle.

As the only caster, I would go with the initiative.
And focus on control, as that will prevent more damage than you'll be able to heal.
Or enable your party to kill things quicker.

[Mithril Leaf]

Incanter and wizard specialization are the same feature, thus your levels stack for the proression of that feature; you don't get to specialize in two different spheres. At least that is my understanding of the intent, the language does not specify that you have to stick to the same one, don't recall if it got picked up in errata.

Also, dipping into a different class every level looks sloppy and I suspect most DM's would consider it questionable.

In SoP, CL stacks the same way BAB does. So incanter 2/fey adept 3 has CL5 for all spheres (baring specialization or other boosts. Hedgewitch 1/incatner 3/elementalist 6 would have CL 7, 9 for destruction. Add incanter specialization in destruction and it has CL 7, 10 for destruction.

Stacking saves with a ton of dips tend to be odd. Many DMs use fractional BAB and saves to remedy this (bad save if +1/3 per level, good save is +1/2 per level with a +2 bonus that you only ever get once). If you have fractional BAB you should probably use fractional CL as well (so hedgewitch gets .75 CL and BAB per level, incanter 1 CL and .5 BAB, mageknight .5 CL and 1 BAB, etc.).

I'm not actually sure about that first point, I'll ask in the other thread.

The second point is fair, but mathematically speaking you can't deny that it's pretty optimal. Same as dipping Martials in 3.5, it shouldn't be about saying don't dip, but having class features worth staying the course for. Fey Adept is a good example of this.

Yes to all of the explanation that CL in Spheres is basically Magic BAB. Also I'd recommend using partial for the sake of sanity, although not using partial gets you those crazy saves, yes.

Also taking some Boons for Caster Level is a solid choice. Again I refer you to The Orrery, full respect to Stack's work.


2. How does multiclassing work anyway? I thought you just added up the stuff you get from each level of each class. Wouldn't Mithral Leaf's suggestion leave me with a CL of +1? I mean, I'll get +1 to 3 different spheres, but wouldn't a +5 be way better? Also, the only 3rd party book we're allowed at our table is the base SoP book, so I don't know what half that stuff is/does and it wouldn't be allowed anyway.

All of the material I've mentioned has been from the supplemental Spheres books, including a limited amount that are from the open beta ones that you can see on the forum. There is a fairly up to date wiki (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/) with all the Spheres content that's out so far if you guys decide you like the magic system. I'd recommend buying the books anyway, but it's a quite useful resource.

[stack]

As others have said, going first is a big deal if you are the one tossing out buffs/debuffs/bfc. Improved initiative should be on the agenda at some point. I always have a hard time saying no to more talents though.

As for mind, it will at least in part depend on the type of game you are playing. Things like read thoughts and suggestion can make a huge difference in non-combat situations. As for the other powers, grabbing group charm and taking multiple enemies out of the fight is pretty handy so long as you aren't fighting a lot of undead and constructs. I wouldn't worry about getting too many of the save or lose options though. There is a difference between dazing, dominating, and putting enemies to sleep, but in combat they are all mostly 'will save or lose turns'.

As for dipping, all the SoP classes have features that reward staying in, though incanter is very dippable due too how front-loaded the specialization options can be. Of course, if I was running a spheres-only game, I probably wouldn't allow cleric, druid, and wizard anyhow, but that's just me.

[A.J.Gibson]

Of course, if I was running a spheres-only game, I probably wouldn't allow cleric, druid, and wizard anyhow, but that's just me.

I get wizard (Incanter effectively replaces it), but why the other two?

[digiman619]

Because they go against the standard "inverse CL-to-BAB" paradigm that every SoP class other than the Thaumaturge adheres to, and the Thaumaturge has potential downsides in its Forbidden Lore ability and only 10 talents. A Spheres Cleric (or Druid that chooses a domain) gets fullcasting, medium BAB and 27 talents, which is more than every other class other than an Incanter (or Spheres Wizard). Admittedly, they are restricted (both have to choose 5 of their talents from their appropriate domain and a Cleric gets 10 from the Life or Death Sphere, as determined by if they channel positive/negative energy), but still.

EDIT: And looking through the Expanded Options book, Oracles with bonus spell-granting patrons get 26,

[stack]

I have always thought clerics and druids (and shamans now too) should be poor BAB classes, leaving more room for mid-casting counterparts. A poor BAB d6 version of either class can be accomplished with the incanter and specializations, while mid-caster, medium BAB versions are easy on a hedgewitch or specialist class, depending on your focus.

[A.J.Gibson]

I have always thought clerics and druids (and shamans now too) should be poor BAB classes, leaving more room for mid-casting counterparts. A poor BAB d6 version of either class can be accomplished with the incanter and specializations, while mid-caster, medium BAB versions are easy on a hedgewitch or specialist class, depending on your focus.

I'm actually working on an optional rule in the War book to do pretty much this. Have a look and tell me what your think.

[Minwaabi]

We had our first session and I was definitely MVP at one point. It was looking like TPK in our first ecounter, but I managed to save the day (and the GM decided the last enemy standing would rather run away than fight that "demon, ah!!!") And when I say TPK, I mean everyone else was at negative HP, and I was at 0.

Anyway, I was wondering about the whole multiclassing some more. A question that was brought up was: If I have light/life/destruction/alteration base spheres as an incanter, can I add talents to those as a hedgewitch? For example, if I have the life sphere as an incanter and I use the hedgewitch spiritualist power to pick up a talent for 1 min, can I cure blindness deafness? Or can I only grant myself life sphere again?

[Mithril Leaf]

We had our first session and I was definitely MVP at one point. It was looking like TPK in our first ecounter, but I managed to save the day (and the GM decided the last enemy standing would rather run away than fight that "demon, ah!!!") And when I say TPK, I mean everyone else was at negative HP, and I was at 0.

Anyway, I was wondering about the whole multiclassing some more. A question that was brought up was: If I have light/life/destruction/alteration base spheres as an incanter, can I add talents to those as a hedgewitch? For example, if I have the life sphere as an incanter and I use the hedgewitch spiritualist power to pick up a talent for 1 min, can I cure blindness deafness? Or can I only grant myself life sphere again?

You very much can. Basically stop thinking of it as leveling up Vancian casters and think of Caster Level as Base Attack Bonus and Talents as Feats. It all stacks baby.

[Afgncaap5]

You very much can. Basically stop thinking of it as leveling up Vancian casters and think of Caster Level as Base Attack Bonus and Talents as Feats. It all stacks baby.

Yeah. Basically spheres advance with your character rather than advancing with your class. Once you get the Light sphere, you've always got it.

To put it in Fluff terminology, you might begin unlocking the magical secrets of Light and Fate during your tenure as a Hedgewitch, but you pick up a few more tricks to advance them by taking levels in Eliciter and Sphere Bard and looking at magic differently.

Or to put it in real world metaphor, sometimes football players can get better at Sportz by taking ballet lessons. It's a totally different sport, but a lot of the muscle control, situational knowledge, and movement exercises synergize well together.

[Minwaabi]

Yeah. Basically spheres advance with your character rather than advancing with your class. Once you get the Light sphere, you've always got it.

To put it in Fluff terminology, you might begin unlocking the magical secrets of Light and Fate during your tenure as a Hedgewitch, but you pick up a few more tricks to advance them by taking levels in Eliciter and Sphere Bard and looking at magic differently.

Or to put it in real world metaphor, sometimes football players can get better at Sportz by taking ballet lessons. It's a totally different sport, but a lot of the muscle control, situational knowledge, and movement exercises synergize well together.


You very much can. Basically stop thinking of it as leveling up Vancian casters and think of Caster Level as Base Attack Bonus and Talents as Feats. It all stacks baby.

Is that stated somewhere in the book(s) or is that the going interpretation?

[Mehangel]

Is that stated somewhere in the book(s) or is that the going interpretation?

I do not think it is explicitly stated, but you dont have to separate what spheres were gained from what class unless you are using the optional 'Multiple Traditions' variant, found on page 161 of Spheres of Power.


If a player or GM wishes a player to follow two traditions (similar to creating a wizard/cleric in traditional Pathfinder), they may do so. When gaining a level in a casting class beyond their 1st, the caster may apply that casting level to a new tradition. They gain an entirely separate set of spheres, talents, caster level, spell points, drawbacks, and boons, which are determined similarly to but completely separate from the first set. When creating a magical effect, they must choose which of these traditions (and its associated spheres, talents, spell points, etc.) they will use; they cannot use aspects of one tradition to empower the other.

Whenever the caster gains a level in a casting class, they must decide which of their traditions that casting class level will be applied to for gaining spell points, casting level, and talents.

But that is not the standard, that is a variant option. For if you note in 'Using Spheres of Power' under the 'Magical Talents', 'Caster Level', 'Spell Points' everything assumes they stack similar to BAB.


Whenever a caster gains a magic talent, they may spend it in one of two ways: to gain a new base sphere or to gain a talent associated with a sphere they already possess.
- Do you have said sphere? Then you can gain talents from that sphere.

Caster level is not as synonymous with class level in SoP as it is with most of the core Pathfinder spellcasting classes. Instead,
it would be more appropriate to think it as akin to Base Attack Bonus: as a creature gains levels in a casting class, they gain caster levels at different rates depending on the class chosen. A multi-classed caster determines his total caster levels by adding together his caster levels from all his classes, similar to how Base Attack Bonus is cumulated between all classes. A caster level of 0 is treated as if it were 1 when determining a caster’s capabilities.

Along with gaining caster levels, casters using the SoP system also gain a spell pool, which accumulates spell points as they gain levels. Spell points are a measure of a spellcaster’s capability and are spent to increase the power of their various sphere abilities. Each caster gains a pool of spell points equal to their class level plus their casting ability modifier. Just like with caster level, a caster adds together all their levels in Sphere casting classes when determining the size of their spell pool. If they possess levels in multiple casting classes, add those class levels together when determining the number of spell points possessed.

I hope this helps.

[Afgncaap5]

I never thought about it before, but with the multiple traditions variant it's technically possible for different sphere uses to not stack with themselves *within the same class*. So for level 1 of Wizard you could have the Fire-Blooded background and take the Destruction sphere (limited to Fire blasts, though). At level 2 of Wizard, meanwhile, you could instead use the Monastic background and decide to take Destruction for the *second* time, this time not limiting yourself to Fire blasts but instead limiting yourself to Destructive blasts that can be delivered only through touch attacks.

Theoretically, a person playing a Wizard with multiple traditions could reach level 20, each time choosing a new tradition. You become Caster Level 1 for twenty different Destruction sphere interpretations. You can't deal a lot of damage, but brother you can deal it in just about any fashion that you might want to.

But, yeah... doing it the normal way assumes that you have one casting tradition shared between all classes, and that your spheres, spell points, talent, and techniques are shared between each other, stacking all the way.