What is Discworld?

[Kurien]

I don't remember where I first heard about Discworld, but just today, while I was in the library, I chanced upon two such books about Discworld, by an author named Terry Pratchett. I must be under a rock, considering it seems that Terry Pratchett is a well known author [insert shrugging smiley].

Now, I seek some information about the Discworld series, particularly what order of books I should read first.

The books I found in the library were:

Jingo
Maskerade

Thanks for your help.

[mikoto]

Wikipedia on Discworld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_world)

This should explain everything

[Justin_Bacon]

I don't remember where I first heard about Discworld, but just today, while I was in the library, I chanced upon two such books about Discworld, by an author named Terry Pratchett. I must be under a rock, considering it seems that Terry Pratchett is a well known author [insert shrugging smiley].

Discworld is one of the most popular and best-selling series ever written. Until J.K. Rowling came along and rewrote the rules, Terry Pratchett was the single most popular author in England.

Discworld is a comic fantasy series set on a flat world (hence the name). It's a mixture of satire, parody, and straight-up comedy mixed with some fairly adroit character work and a laser-sharp sense of dramatic timing.

Within the Discworld series, there are many sub-series (featuring different groups of characters, locations, and/or organizations).

I recommend starting with SMALL GODS, which stands basically on its own. It's also on my personal list of the Top 10 fantasy novels ever written. Really brilliant stuff.

Justin Alexander
http://www.thealexandrian.net

[Nerd-o-rama]

I heartily recommend pretty much all the Discworld books. As for reading order...well, the continuity's a little less complicated than it looks (http://www.lspace.org/books/reading-order-guides/the-discworld-reading-order-guide-colour-1-25.gif). If you don't mind skipping around between groups of characters, you can read them in publication order (starting with The Colour of Magic) without too much trouble. You can use the chart I linked to as a way to follow a major series in order just as easily, although you won't necessarily get some of the more obscure jokes if you do it that way.

If you can tolerate a fairly dry expository book to begin with, I'd start with The Colour of Magic either way, since that gives the most detail on the setting and its quirks. If that sounds like it might be boring (and it might), I'd start with one of the other books in orange on that chart, as they're the beginnings of their respective plot arcs. I particularly enjoyed Guards! Guards!, a sendup of both cop dramas and the role of the ever-expendable city watch in a world full of fantasy heroes.

[Lemur]

Jingo is actually a decent book to start on. It doesn't particularly matter what order you read the books in, in my opinion. Keeping track of continuity isn't a big deal, since each book tends to resolve the story being told and always gives a good introduction for recurring characters.

The only potential exception I can think of are the first two books, The Color of Magic and The Light Fantastic, in which you should probably read the first before reading the second.

[....]

Mort. Its my all time favorite Discworld book.

Also, you'll notice some inconcistincies in the newer books with some of the older ones. Don't worry, its okay.

(There's also hardly any footnotes these days, which is to bad. I liked the footnotes)

[dehro]

every book stands alone and can be read in no matter what order.

but in my opinion you could do best to read them in order of appearance, simply because the are broadly following a temporal arch in this same order, with a few exceptions.
It simply feels natural to read about the same character as he grows from simple copper to sergeant, captain etc etc, instead of coming to know him/her/it as a sarge and then going back to soldier.

but other than that, the books really are enjoyable in any order.

I place Pratchett on the podium of the authors I cherish, I'd put him on top of the list, where it not for Tolkien, for whom I have a soft spot...(and I'm not making distinctions between fantasy and other genres)
I will not praise Pratchett any more, or tell you more than the others have already done. See for yourself, I'd say.

one thing however I must say. Personally I believe the discworld novels (the bulk of his writing) to be far better than the "other ones" like strata, the series of johnny..or even Good Omens..
I'd say, stick to any of these books and you can't go wrong.

[Jimmy Discordia]

I generally recommend starting with The Colour of Magic and The Light Fantastic, which are, coincidentally, the first two Discworld books in order of publication. I second Nerd-o-rama's feelings on this: they aren't Pratchett's best work, but they give a good introduction to the setting.

My personal favorite Discworld novel is probably Small Gods or Reaper Man. Guards! Guards! is also really great. Actually, IMO, they're all really great, (well, there are a couple I haven't read yet, but I'm assuming the pattern will hold). ....s suggestion of Mort is also good, as it's the first one that really gets into the character of Death, who has my vote for the best Discworld character. As far as Death-centric novels go, though, my vote is still for Reaper Man.

If your only choices are Maskerade and Jingo, I'd probably recommend Maskerade. I'd hold off on Jingo until I'd read a couple of the other City Watch novels, the first of which is the aforementioned Guards! Guards!

EDIT: Okay, as others have said, you can read them in pretty much any order you want. Maskerade would also probably be more enjoyable if you'd read a couple of the preceding Witches novels first. Really, just pick up whichever one is available and start there. No one I know has ever done this and failed to get hooked, no matter where they started.

[Seraph]

each story is self-contained, but there are character arcs that really should be read in a certain order.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld_reading_order

[Evil DM Mark3]

Discworld is s series of books printed in Awsome ink on paper made of pulped Win.

As for a starting point, The colour of magic, Wyrd sisters (or Equal rightes but for some reason it feels more like a stand alone book, despite haing Granny in it.) Guards! Guards!, Mort, The Truth or Wee Free Men are all good starting books. If I had my choice I would probably say The Truth, as it is very good, a stand alone book but with touches on the Guards books in that it is in the same city. Out of the two you have either is good, although if spoilers are a concern then Maskarade has a few small ones about previous Whitch books. It is also my very favourate Discworld novel so there!:smallbiggrin:

Read order is only a problem for Colour of magic/light fantastic. Lords and Ladies does require a short explation if you havent read Whitches Abroad and/or Wyrd sisters, but that is given as a prologue. Also do not make the mistake of ignoring footnotes, they are not plot pivitol but often have the very best jokes in them.

Aside from the novels if you find yourself in paper haven (as I did) there are also several maps, an encyclopedia (the discworld companion, WARNING spoiler city), The Art of the Discworld and a cookbook (with a largeish section on etticete, writen by Nanny Ogg so much funny) also out there...

[Yuki Akuma]

It's a good idea to start with books published earlier than later books; the world changes and evolves over time. For example, the newer books are set in a different century to the earlier books (the switch happened around the year 2000, incidentally). Anhk-Morpork is becoming much more... shall we say, 'modern' in comparison with earlier books. I find it fun to read about the origins of things such as the clacks towers.

My favourite books are, however, Hogfather, Soul Music and Thief of Time, mainly due to the fact that they star the greatest almost-mortal character on the Disc, Susan sto-Helit.

Mort and Reaper Man are also very good books, as is The Fifth Elephant (although I recommend reading Guards! Guards!, Feet of Clay and Jingo, at least, before that). Most of the City Watch books are quite nice, actually.

As an aside, I really like the Tiffany Aching character arc, although I think you might want to read the Witches character arc before you get into that. The Witches story arc sort-of starts with Equal Rites, although that story is never mentioned ever again, so you don't really need to read it right away.

Also, The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents is a fun little introduction to the style of Discworld, even if it doesn't have a very wide view of the Disc.

And, finally... the Rincewind character arc is also very good (and incidentally starts with the first novel, Colour of Magic). I can't actually name many bad novels in the series...

[Evil DM Mark3]

I can't actually name many bad novels in the series...

Take that back. I dare you to name ANY. Some are better than others sure, but by the external standard of fiction, they are all good books.

[Yuki Akuma]

I don't really care for The Light Fantastic. :smalltongue:

Also, I leave you with a quote, because I love it so:

"Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.
The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake..."
Nobody said elves were nice.
Elves are bad.
– Lords and Ladies

[bosssmiley]

Take that back. I dare you to name ANY. Some are better than others sure, but by the external standard of fiction, they are all good books.

"Maskerade" and "Carpe Jugulum" were a bit *meh*, especially when they're contrasted with the manifest godly win that Pratchett was channelling when he wrote the books that preceded and succeeded them.

I knew Discworld was something more than an Asprin/Holt-style fantasy parody series by the time I read "Mort".
It entered the realms of iconic about "Pyramids" and "Guard! Guards!"
As for "Last Hero", "Feet of Clay", "Fifth Elephant" and "Night Watch". FLAWLESS VICTORY!

Kurnour, you need these books in your life mate. All of them!

[Crow T. Robot]

I remember staying up one saturday night reading "Thief of time" in my junior year of college. I was hooked since then. My personal favorets have been in the Watch books. As well as the Death/Susan books. Rincewind is nice though I never really got into the witches books. Granny and Co. could rub me the wrong way at times.

The stand alones have Small Gods at the top, with a hoard of others under it. "Going Postal" is in the third read through, and I look for ward to "Makeing Money" in october.

Now, I am just gibbering, and getting all fan boy.

Also those of a gameing bent (I know it is only a couple of gamers here) there are two Discworld source books for GURPS 3rd ed. The main one has GURPS lite in the back so it is possible to play with out the main book to an extent. Both books were writen by Pratchett with some help from another writer of teh crunchy rules bits. Which means there are plenty of foots notes, though is is some what jarring to have Pratchett prose shift violently to cold gameing stats, then resume the humor.

[Omniplex]

Hmm. I've just recently started the series, Having just today finished Monstrous Regiment, and previously read Going Postal, and Interesting Times. I read those for no particular reason, they just struck my fancy from the library shelves. Anyhow, I don't really have anything relevant to say, as I've only read three books, and perhaps not the best books to start with.

[Aston]

They can be read however you like, but Pyramids is also a good one to start with.

And he has written books that were worse than others he has written, but even a bad Pratchett is better many other author's best work.

But then a lot of books are a load of fetid dingo's kidneys.

I think I started on Interesting Times actually. The over-all timeline does not matter so much, but it does help to have read all of them. (except Wintersmith, which I have not read yet.)

But pick one at random is not bad advice. :)

For me at least, the witches books at first reading were rubbish, but about a year later (obviously wiser) I read them again and loved them.

[Evil DM Mark3]

The Which books are my favourate ones, Granny Weatherwax is a strong contender for my favouate Discworld character. I think it is the depth of the ideas he uses for them. Be aware that PTerry has been acussed of "Stealth Phylosophy" in his books. Also somtimes he has been acused of literature.

[nerulean]

I started with Wyrd Sisters, which is a nice introduction to the Discworld and its workings without throwing you right in at the deep end. Though Equal Rights technically comes before it, there's no need to read it first, and I actually like it as a prequel type thing.

I would suggest Wyrd Sisters, Mort or Guards Guards as the best starting books, since they set up three of the main sets of characters that run throughout the series and you will have another book immediately ready and obvious to read as the next one once you finish the first, with most of the same characters and a plot that builds on what you've just read. Of the three, I'm not a massive fan of Mort although the character of Death is one of my favourites in the series, and while I count the Watch books as far and away the best of the bunch, if you read their books from beginning to end without reading any of the others then you'll miss out on an awful lot.

Ideally, I'd say read the first two or three books in either the witches, Death or Watch series, then go back and read the whole lot as close to publication order as you can, starting with The Colour of Magic (be prepared for a tiny dip in quality compared to what you've just read). When the series starts out, there's a lot more external reference and obvious satire of real life things, but as it continues it begins to satirise itself far more and make jokes that are dependent upon you having read the books before, so it pays to read them in an approximation of the order they were written in (or just go back and re-read them after. :smallwink: )

[....]

While Death is my favorite character, I still will always think of Rincewind as the 'star' of Discworld (even if every book seems to be about Vimes these days).

And everyone is forgetting another awesome character who (sadly) has no books centered on him, Lord Vetinari, the Patriarch.

[nerulean]

Ah, but a book focussed entirely on the Patrician wouldn't work. His character works only because you rarely see him from the inside, as it were, and when you do it's only a quick glimpse to show you how circuitous and cunning his thought processes actually are. Not to mention that having your main protagonist automatically win at everything is no fun. :smallwink:

[Yuki Akuma]

Ah, but a book focussed entirely on the Patrician wouldn't work. His character works only because you rarely see him from the inside, as it were, and when you do it's only a quick glimpse to show you how circuitous and cunning his thought processes actually are. Not to mention that having your main protagonist automatically win at everything is no fun. :smallwink:

I dunno... I actually think a book detailing the Patrician's rise to power from his point of view would be fun. Or perhaps a sequel to Night Watch, in which the Patrician is sent back in time to when he rose to power... or something.

[Evil DM Mark3]

Terry has said that he will not use Vetinary in that way for the reason stated. He also said that he will not use the Librarian as a centeral character either, because there is limited miladge you can get out of an internal dialogue of "ook ook, ookook, ook eek."

EDIT:BTW can I say how happy I am to see so many Merkins on this thread.

[daydreamer]

Start with Guards Guards.

Terry Pratchett's books are the most stolen books in the world.

This either means that it's the most popular books among thieves or that its readers are prepared to go to any lengths to get them.

[dehro]

Terry has said that he will not use Vetinary in that way for the reason stated. He also said that he will not use the Librarian as a centeral character either, because there is limited miladge you can get out of an internal dialogue of "ook ook, ookook, ook eek."

EDIT:BTW can I say how happy I am to see so many Merkins on this thread.

still I'd like to see vetinari beat the crap out of a few antagonists (witnessed only by Vimes or Carrot, seems appropriate)

and as for the Librarian...well...that's just too bad, because I've been constructing a plotline that's funny as hell with him has a center figure (or at least as the "person" around which most of the plot turns), and was sort of hoping that Pratchett would write something in that direction...but if what you say is true, then it doesn't seem likely to happen anytime soon.

guess I'll have to do it myself :smalltongue:

[Yuki Akuma]

Vetinari beating up an antagonist does seem rather fitting, as does it only being witnessed by Vimes or Carrot (Vimes would be better, I think). Vetinari is a trained assassin, after all!

It could happen in a future Watch book, I suppose...

[dehro]

Vetinari beating up an antagonist does seem rather fitting, as does it only being witnessed by Vimes or Carrot (Vimes would be better, I think). Vetinari is a trained assassin, after all!

It could happen in a future Watch book, I suppose...

Yah..and the only reason they got him (they being tulip and -ing associate)
is because he was startled...otherwise I think they would've had a hard time

[Evil DM Mark3]

Guys, Vetinari is a trained ASSASSIN. As Tepic points outin Pyramids, that seldom means learing how NOT to kill a man...

Also it would be a huge break in character, WHY is Vetinari going around hitting people? And why of all people is he hitting Vimes or Carrot? That is to say the two people who reprisent a real threat to his praticianship if they think he might need replacing (and beating people up would be grounds for that I am sure). Why is he titling his hand? Sofar he has made one (1) mistake with manipulating those two (that time Vimes was wound too tight and ended up not punching the wall) so why mess it up so badly now?

[smellie_hippie]

I'm gonna echo Kurnour in the question of "what is Discworld". I also must admit that I am not familiar with the author either. I have seen several recommendations across various threads asking for literature advice, so please rest assured that I will not be familiar with the books for much longer.

I'll read them right after I finish reading these book by J. K. something... :smallamused:

[dehro]

Guys, Vetinari is a trained ASSASSIN. As Tepic points outin Pyramids, that seldom means learing how NOT to kill a man...

Also it would be a huge break in character, WHY is Vetinari going around hitting people? And why of all people is he hitting Vimes or Carrot? That is to say the two people who reprisent a real threat to his praticianship if they think he might need replacing (and beating people up would be grounds for that I am sure). Why is he titling his hand? Sofar he has made one (1) mistake with manipulating those two (that time Vimes was wound too tight and ended up not punching the wall) so why mess it up so badly now?

uhm...I was talking about him beating up someone who has it coming (the villain of the book, that is), and witnessed by vimes, not beating up vimes

a break in character?..dunno, maybe if put in a very thight corner where he has no alternative to save his life and/or the city/discworld...he'd just do what needs to be done, no?
just a swift kill to solve a problem and boost the respect vimes has for him, underneath all the display of distrust and hatred, no?
we know him to be a man of action, other than just good at numbers and juggling, so I really don't see the break in character.

[Greebo]

uhm...I was talking about him beating up someone who has it coming (the villain of the book, that is), and witnessed by vimes, not beating up vimes

a break in character?..dunno, maybe if put in a very thight corner where he has no alternative to save his life and/or the city/discworld...he'd just do what needs to be done, no?
just a swift kill to solve a problem and boost the respect vimes has for him, underneath all the display of distrust and hatred, no?
we know him to be a man of action, other than just good at numbers and juggling, so I really don't see the break in character.
:smallconfused:

You read "Night Watch", right?

You read the bit about how Vetinari deals with Downey during and after Downey destroys the priceless book on concealment?

That's Vetinari's character.

He *doesn't* give anyone the opportunity to back him into a corner, and he gets even without anyone ever knowing it was him who did it.

[TheRabidWalnut]

After all, Veterari doesn't rule (strictly speaking) by fear, but by the promise that tomorrow will be pretty much like today.

[nerulean]

Vetinari wouldn't have any trouble at all putting the beat down on whoever he should choose, he'd just be mind-bogglingly careful about when he should choose, why he'd do it, and who'd see. So far, he's cultivated a nice legend about himself that he's a vastly dangerous man in a fight, and as long as that legend stands, why give anyone the opportunity to prove it wrong?

He could smack someone around in a fight just to show them what he's capable of, but giving in to calls to prove yourself is a sign of weakness Vetinari wouldn't show unless he had some very specific reasons: having everyone know you're unbeatable is a far more powerful mystique than having chopped some guy's head off. He might want to appear weak, in which case that's a great way to feign weakness of character while at the same time making sure everyone knows you're still out of their league, or he might want to 'accidentally' let someone like, say, Carrot, discover that he is an extremely competent combatant and perfectly able to take care of himself.

I don't think he'd do it for Vimes' benefit alone, since the guy's already plenty scared of him and entirely aware that the Patrician owns his life. Rubbing it in would seem like overkill, far too unsubtle.

[Dragonmuncher]

Regarding Rincewind, I want to say that I'm happy that he's become sort of an ignored character.

He's kind of amusing, but he doesn't have very much depth. Almost the entirety of his character development was completed in the The Color of Magic and The Light Fantastic:

1. Rincewind is a wizard, no matter what. This may be like calling zero a number, but it still counts. He almost always identifies himself as a wizard (with his hat, usually), even when it would be advisable not to.

2. Rincewind is a coward. The solution to almost anything, at least temporarily, is to run away. The only time he WON'T run away is if he's being forced to be a hero, has no other choice, or knows that the world is about to end and he'll die anyway.

3. Ricnewind is generally incompetant, except as languages and running away. He knows some magical lore, but usually just enough to go "Oh crap, we need to run away."

4. Rincewind has a magical, homicidal, at least partially-sentient, box with legs. It spends most of his adventures trailing behind him, or trying to find him, and eating anything that gets in his way.


That's it. And he's been in a lot of books- Not as much as Vimes, but I'd guess as many as Granny has. And Granny has character out the wazoo.

He really just exists so we have a viewpoint to watch other people do interesting things- The Last Hero, for instance, had Carrot, the Librarian, and Leonard as the ship's crew. Rincewind was as close to an everyman as you can get when you're faced with a paragon of virtue, an ape, and an absent-minded genius.




I'm glad Rincewind's fading away. I'm a Moist Man, nowadays.



Hehehhehehehehehehehehe... what a name.

[Kurald Galain]

After all, Veterari doesn't rule (strictly speaking) by fear, but by the promise that tomorrow will be pretty much like today.

No, he rules by fear - specifically, the fear that any other ruler of the city would be worse.

[TheRabidWalnut]

@ /\... oooh, I hadn't thought of it that way... nicely put.

[Evil DM Mark3]

"Whist it may be better to be freated than loved it is better to be perminet than either."

Vetinari is NOT a man of action. He is a man of thought. He is the archetypal evil mastermind, but probably good (or at least neutral, certainly not a VILLAIN). Just as granny is a good wiched whitch, Vetinari is a good tyranical dictator.

[dehro]

"Whist it may be better to be freated than loved it is better to be perminet than either."

Vetinari is NOT a man of action. He is a man of thought. He is the archetypal evil mastermind, but probably good (or at least neutral, certainly not a VILLAIN). Just as granny is a good wiched whitch, Vetinari is a good tyranical dictator.

ahem... he walks with a cane he probably doesn't really need, for show and to give an impression of weakness (and thus to gain an edge on whoever might try to confront him) when he hears suspicious sounds he grabs for a knife instead of ringing a bell to call a clerk or a guard, he "probably" faces quite some dangerous traps whenever he goes visiting Leonard and he is a certified assassin....

not a man of action?... I might be reading different boooks, but to me, this looks quite like a man of action, even when he makes a living by using his brain.
making a mayor leap to recent Historical figures, Tyson did the same, he outsmarted and psycologically dominated his opponents, way before driving the punch home..but I'm not going to call him "not a man of action", if you please :P

anyway, I'm not saying that he sould become a raving madman, I simply think he would be and look totally cool in a fight.
and it could just happen that some guy got mad enough (or started being mad to begin with) and attacked him out of the blue or as culminating part of a plot, could it not?
the bullet the patrician took in one of the better books is proof that not everything is under his direct control, that not every time he can plan ahead and choose his ground or strategy so as not having to fight.
and I have a feeling that if this was not the case, the patrician would really transform into some sort of mastermind/uberbrain,loose most of the quality he has as a character and become dull.
he doesn't "need" to be seen by anybody, killing someone and yes, I believe that indeed he'd rather prefer not to be seen in this fashion...but it could just happen (out of his control) and it could just add a little twist to a relationship between preminent characters that could, one day, come to a confrontation.

Edit: I will not loose sleep over this argument and will still appreciate every book by Pratchett even might he choose to strap the Patrician to his desk forever. I am merely defending my views on the issue solely for the sake of debate and speculation...and coolness :smallbiggrin:

and granny only is the good wich because she has to compensate for her sister, who chose to be the bad one... had she had anything to say in the matter might have chosen a different path..(but then again, maybe not, maybe it's how she explains her goodness to herself )

[....]

Vetinari does need that cane, he was shot by the gonne, remember?

And, while I think Vetinari surely was very deadly, he's getty pretty old and I doubt that he could take Carrot or even Vimes in a straight up fight. (Not that Vetinari would ever let it come to that.)

As for Rincewind, I think he has more character than you give him credit for. Sure, he runs away a lot, but did you forget Sourcery? Rincewind actually fought the Things with a half-brick in a sock to save Coin and pretty much the whole Disc, making that, what the second time he's saved the world?

He also created life on the Disc...

But I get off subject. I think that if a new Rincewind book got written (By a Pratchett who has improved by leaps and bounds since The Color of Magic) that he'd develop a lot more. I get the feeling from a lot of Rincewind books that he really does wish he could be more heroic, but he dosn't have anything to offer. He's not strong, he can't cast spells, he's not particularly smart. He just has the horrible misfortune of being Luck's chosen one.

By the way, where is Rincewind in the continuity? I can't seem to remember where he wound up after Fourecks.

[Evil DM Mark3]

OK, fair enough on the man of action bit, slight differance in what we ment by it I think.

And .... notice how he only uses the cane in public, not in private. He did not plan to get shot, but he did use it :smallsmile: .

Rincewind is now at the Unseen Univeristy, and has no plans to leave. Ever.

[dehro]

OK, fair enough on the man of action bit, slight differance in what we ment by it I think.

And .... notice how he only uses the cane in public, not in private. He did not plan to get shot, but he did use it :smallsmile: .

Rincewind is now at the Unseen Univeristy, and has no plans to leave. Ever.

:smallwink:

indeed, that's why I feel that his use of the cane is a bit of an act (my guess is that he has recovered far better than he wants to let out)

as for vimes and carrot, again, I'm not saying that he should confront either of the two but a third party :smallwink:


and indeed, I think that Rincewind is perusing the whole of his buckets of coal in happy and blissfull dullness, untill the Lady needs her favorite champion again (talk about assets...he has the one asset that is stronger than strenght, stronger than magic, strongher even than Fate...he has the favour of the Lady)

[SITB]

About Vetinari:

Vetinari almost killed both Mr.Tulip AND Mr.Pin, at the same time.

Hell, Mr. Pin said it himself :"...And one of the things Slant forgot to mention about Vetinari is that he moved like a snake."

He does not need that cane.

EDIT: Becasue Vetinari is, after all, a Magnificent Bastard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.MagnificentBastard).

Rincewind is screwed because as the Egregious Professor Of Cruel And Unusual Geography, he is bound to fully wade in whatever muck that is happening in the Roundworld, while still being in the university at the same time.

[dehro]

I hereby found the official vetinari fanclub :smallcool:

[bugsysservant]

Am I the only person who thinks he should start with Going Postal? It is (IMO) the best, or very near there, and as of now, one of the most self contained. The first books are good, but I wouldn't have read them if I didn't know how brilliant the rest of the series was.

And what about the fight between Carrot and Cohen the barbarian? Was I the only one who was pissed when it never occurred in The Last Hero?

[dehro]

by now their expectations must be so high that whatever book we might suggest to start with, they are bound to find it less than spectacular...:smallfrown:

[Evil DM Mark3]

I hereby found the official vetinari fanclub :smallcool:

SO in that. Shadowy figure ho!

[BRC]

I hereby found the official vetinari fanclub :smallcool:
Totally in there, I'll be a rumor-informant

[Manga Shoggoth]

As an aside, I really like the Tiffany Aching character arc, although I think you might want to read the Witches character arc before you get into that. The Witches story arc sort-of starts with Equal Rites, although that story is never mentioned ever again, so you don't really need to read it right away.

I have to agree with the reading order - Pratchett spends the first three books (the last of which is Equal Rites) finding his feet - or at least finding his style. They are worth reading, but later...

However, the events in Equal Rites (specifically Granny Weatherwax's stay in Ankh-Morpock) are alluded to several times in Maskarade...

[Evil DM Mark3]

Esk may be comming back in I shall wear midnight, PTerry hinted so on a siging tour.

Totaly agree with the comment about finding his style, PTerry pegs it as Sorcery when he first really got into it.

Also how do spoiler tags work on this forum?

[dehro]

spoiler and /spoiler, enclosed in [], just like with bold or italics

[Dragonmuncher]

Eh, Starting with Going Postal... maybe.

It's an awesome book, to be sure- I feel like right around "Night Watch" Pratchett's novels suddenly boosted ahead in quality (not that the ones previous were BAD, far from it, just that the recent ones are amazing. I'd really like a new Granny Book)- I just don't know how well it introduces one to Discworld. It essentially takes place in just Anhk-Morpork, and if you want to know about Anhk-Morpork, you're best starting off with Guards! Guards! and working from there.

Even though the first three books are weaker than the others (barring Last Continent- I really didn't like that book very much), I'd still suggest starting from the beginning, at least at first. Then you can jump around pretty much as you will, although it's more fun when you read the character books in order. It doesn't really matter if you read Moving Pictures first or last, but reading Night Watch before Guards Guards, or Witches Abroad before Wyrd Sisters, takes some of the fun out of it.


As to Esk, I don't really care about her- Equal Rites gets lumped in with Color of Magic and Light Fantastic as "finding his feet" books. If there had just been a simple footnote in a later book saying "A young witch, Eskarina Whateverherlastnamewas, attempted to integrate witchcraft with wizardry, but was accidentally killed in a freak broomstick accident," I would be fine.

She was an interesting young witch character, but I like Tiffany Aching much better.


And if we're starting fan clubs, how about Nanny Ogg? Come on, loveable old lady, ancient magical family, author, brewer, and can handle Granny Weatherwax with ease. Tir Nanny Ogg!

[Greebo]

I am also in the "read them in order" camp. The earlier works are good introductions to the discworld and impart information you won't get later, but the later books have the better writing overall.

I also recommend most of the readings on CD, also available from Audible.com. :)

[Erloas]

I agree with reading the stories in order. Maybe not necessarily release date order, but at least order for any one group. You don't have to read the first couple books that were released about the Wizards before you read the books about the Night Watch or the Witches.

There are a few truely "stand alone" books that don't really involve any of the main character groups and they can be read out of order without much issue.

While most of the books do a good job of being great on their own, they do tend to make at least passing references to some of the other books. And while he does develop each character in each book, they are generally not as fully developed as the first time or two they are introduced.
The biggest reason to read them in order though is because if you read some of the later ones you will end up figuring out some of the suprises/suspense when they come up in the earlier books. I think it also takes something away from the stories when you know that in a difficult situation that all of the characters are going to come out ok because you read about them alive and well in a later book.

[Otterella]

I'm sad that nobody has mentioned the Tiffany books. I adore the Nac Mac Feegle! They make me laugh so much! But it is best to read those already having an understanding of who Granny Weatherwax is and how witchcraft works on the Disc. It's all about headology!

I hereby found the Nac Mac Feegle fanclub!

[Yuki Akuma]

I'm sad that nobody has mentioned the Tiffany books. I adore the Nac Mac Feegle! They make me laugh so much! But it is best to read those already having an understanding of who Granny Weatherwax is and how witchcraft works on the Disc. It's all about headology!

I hereby found the Nac Mac Feegle fanclub!

Yes, that is sa-

Oh wait, what's this?


As an aside, I really like the Tiffany Aching character arc, although I think you might want to read the Witches character arc before you get into that. The Witches story arc sort-of starts with Equal Rites, although that story is never mentioned ever again, so you don't really need to read it right away.

[North]

I think Pratchetts City Watch book are the best of them all. Going Postal is awesome but it does have minor spoilers for the guards books.

Id say start with -Guards!Guards! then hit -Men at Arms. Vimes, Carrot Vetinari are all great in those.

[dehro]

I second every erloas's word..
+ there is the fact that characters evolve with each book, and later on some things are taken for granted or simply more fun if you know the background.
and a character of some complexity, when you read "backwards" becomes maybe too "simple" and less enjoyable if you read one of the first books later on, because in fact they may be of lesser quality, but the characters are still there and coming to like them as they "grow" is easier than liking a well defined character and then go back to read a charcoal sketch of one

[JabberwockySupafly]

Discworld is one of the most popular and best-selling series ever written. Until J.K. Rowling came along and rewrote the rules, Terry Pratchett IS the single most popular author in England.

*snip*


Fixed.


Pratchett is still considered more popular. He's the most shop-lifted author in England. And that, in my opinion, is saying quite a lot. Like, for instance, sales mean nothing when even people too broke to buy the books will go to virtually any length to get them. It's like heroin on a printed page, Mr Pratchett is.


In terms of which books to start with, every one has different opinions. I love the older books better than the newers one by far. Pyramids, Mort, Small Gods, & Reaper Man being some of my favourite books. Heck, Reaper Man is probably my favourite of the Discworld novels (Lord, what can the harvest hope for, if not for the care of the Reaper Man?). Others will swear up & down his newer books are better. Others hate Rincewind yet love the Witches or City Watch books. My suggestion is to start with The Colour of Magic and work your way up about 5 to 7 books in. You'll get at least one of each series that way. The Gods books, The Witches, The City Watch, The Death/Susan series, and Rincewind. Grab The Wee Free Men as well. Tiffany Aching may be more your cup of tea, who knows? Decide which ones you like, and which ones you don't, and stick with those themes.

Me, Personally... I love them all. I started with Small Gods, and after reading it, made it my personal mission to buy at least 3 Pratchett books per paycheck (at which point, Night Watch had just been released, so I had a bit of a task in front of me...) until I had them all. I now own at least one (two of my signed copies, obviously. Including my signed copy of Good Omens. Now I just have to wait for Neil to come back to Sydney and get him to sign it as well... ) of every Pratchett book. But, I'm a fanatic. With Discworld, you really have to make your own decision. Terry has something for everyone's tastes virtually. You just have to sample the buffet until you figure out which dishes you consider palatable.


Cheers
JS

[Evil DM Mark3]

Discworld is one of the most popular and best-selling series ever written. Until J.K. Rowling came along and rewrote the rules, Terry Pratchett IS the single most popular author in Britan.

Further fixed. That is just anoying. Look up wales and scotland on wikipedia if you don't belive me.

[Greebo]

If he's the most popular author in Britain, then isn't he by extension, also the most popular author in England?

Or is he more popular in Wales, Ireland, and Scotland, but NOT the most popular in England, however he's so popular in the other three, that he ends up averaging on top?

[Evil DM Mark3]

It was clear from context he ment Britan however. It anoys me when people sub England for Britain, as if the other areas with their heratige and their culture didn't matter. Only the other week I heard an american journalist refer to the new Prime Minister of England. (Which Gordon Brown Isn't. England has no Prime Minister or indded any ministers, Britain does, Scotland, Norther Ireland and Wales have Assembly ministers, but England just has county conselours. BRITAIN has Ministers.)

[Ethdred]

Kurnour, you need these books in your life mate. All of them!

Quoted for overwhelming and unarguable truth. Pratchett is without doubt the most consistently funny author in any language ever - as well as being intelligent, observant and human spirited.

I've been rereading some of his recently and this thread has reminded me of some I don't own yet (mainly the more recent ones) so a trip to Waterstone's is called for. I was thinking this week that I'm running out of books to read (ie books I've bought but haven't read yet). Problem now solved!

I'd recommend Wyrd Sisters if you like/know Shakespeare. The best opening to a book ever??

[Evil DM Mark3]

What you mean "Lightling stabbed at the ground like a highly inefectual assassin"?Because yes, that opening line is pure Win.

[Aston]

I like the one about lightning probing the gaps in the hills like a man's tongue probing a gap in his teeth. Or something like that.

[nagora]

I generally recommend starting with The Colour of Magic and The Light Fantastic, which are, coincidentally, the first two Discworld books in order of publication. I second Nerd-o-rama's feelings on this: they aren't Pratchett's best work, but they give a good introduction to the setting.

They don't fit very well any more either in style or content (Death particularly seems off compared to his later character).


My personal favorite Discworld novel is probably Small Gods or Reaper Man. Guards! Guards! is also really great.


I'd have picked Reaper Man as the worst of the later books. Small Gods is very good and is important background info for many later books. Nightwatch is probably the best fantasy novel written in the last 30 years, but it builds on what has gone before it in the Guards! Guards! branch.

I read the whole series again in order last year and I was surprised at how much continuity there is, so I'd suggest starting at the first and going through them, with the proviso that if you don't like the first 2 you still might like the rest.

[Yuki Akuma]

It was clear from context he ment Britan however. It anoys me when people sub England for Britain, as if the other areas with their heratige and their culture didn't matter. Only the other week I heard an american journalist refer to the new Prime Minister of England. (Which Gordon Brown Isn't. England has no Prime Minister or indded any ministers, Britain does, Scotland, Norther Ireland and Wales have Assembly ministers, but England just has county conselours. BRITAIN has Ministers.)

But... don't the other three (or perhaps two and a half) complain about being lumped in with Britain?

[Charity]

But... don't the other three (or perhaps two and a half) complain about EVERYTHING?

There you go Yuki fixed that for you matey.

[Jibar]

Ahhh, Charity. One of the few people I would say is truly English.


It anoys me when people sub England for Britain, as if the other areas with their heratige and their culture didn't matter.

Britain is the area, the British Isles anyway.
What you're thinking of is the United Kingdom.
Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.
But then, that doesn't really matter, because England is in charge.
Think about it, Germany, France, America, before they were all divided into smaller areas, all of them had different leaders. They united together to make one country. We did that here, except England then took over other countries. We let them think they were still countries to make them agree, but incase you hadn't noticed they're almost completely dependant on us.
England was the Uniter, the Conquerer. And we're going to bloody well stay in charge I assure you.
Besides that, I don't like the Welsh, so you'll excuse me if I leave them and Scotland out of my United Kingdom.

[nagora]

We did that here, except England then took over other countries. We let them think they were still countries to make them agree, but incase you hadn't noticed they're almost completely dependant on us.
England was the Uniter, the Conquerer. And we're going to bloody well stay in charge I assure you.
Besides that, I don't like the Welsh, so you'll excuse me if I leave them and Scotland out of my United Kingdom.

Yes, quite. And English people wonder why they have a negative image in other parts of their own country. How is life in the BNP?

[Jibar]

Yes, quite. And English people wonder why they have a negative image in other parts of their own country. How is life in the BNP?

Hey, not my fault some people don't like being conquered and assimilated into a country.
And hey, I vote Green thank you very much.
Eeek, politics. Don't touch again.

[Yuki Akuma]

So anyway.

Does anyone here have a favourite country/area of the Discworld?

My favourite is the Ramtops, because I love witch magic. It's so fun.

[Evil DM Mark3]

It is a fact of life that almost every place was once a smaller place, the same level of division can be found in almost every country more than a few centuaries old. France has such divisions, as does Germany. There are few places in England that are truly "English", first there is the north south divide, followed by regional distinction etc etc. The United Kingdoms of Great Britain and Northern Ireland are a great place to live and that diversity makes it so.

On to the Question.

Llamedos, for what little we see of it, for reasons of real life pride. The Ramtops are also cool, as is the Chalk. And Mutab becasue it exists puerly to be annoying.

[....]

Am I the only one who thinks the witches (except for Aching, and thats mostly cuz of the Pictsies) are annoying?

[nerulean]

Granny and Nanny I like. The other witches, not so extraordinarily much. Tiffany gets right on my wick for some reason, as does Susan. I couldn't say why, but TP's excruciatingly logical, sensible female characters just irritate the life out of me. Lady Sybil all the way!

As for favourite Discworld places? Why, how could it be anywhere but the eternally pungent, teeming city that is Ankh-Morpork? Maybe it's because I'm something of a London girl, maybe it's because that's where many of my favourite books take place, but I just love that city.

[Yuki Akuma]

I think Susan is more of a demigod (or perhaps demianthropomorphic personification) than a witch. She just thinks like a witch.

And no, I don't find any of those characters annoying. I love all witches (and anthropomorphic personifications). :smallbiggrin: There are a few good wizards, too, although most of them annoy me.

[Evil DM Mark3]

Michelle Dockery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Dockery)said that it was nice to play a heroin that did not need rescuing. Susan is awsome and I wish there where more teachers like her, children don't need to learn to be children, they need to learn how to fake growing up (because almost no one ever really grows up, and most of them become accountants).

[dehro]

I think Susan is more of a demigod (or perhaps demianthropomorphic personification) than a witch. She just thinks like a witch.

And no, I don't find any of those characters annoying. I love all witches (and anthropomorphic personifications). :smallbiggrin: There are a few good wizards, too, although most of them annoy me.

BORN TO RUNE... I'll say no more..

[....]

I like Susan, but she seems to take away from Death in the more recent books. Its always her dealing with something terribly foolish with the Death of Rats and Quoth around while Death is involved in some mini-plot, usually involving the other three horsemen.

So I dislike Susan a little bit, because she takes away from Death, and because her daddy, Mort, is probably one of my favorite characters (and we all know what happened to Mort).

I'm aware on an intelecutal (?) level that you can't write many books with Death as the main character, but I wish there were more.

[Yuki Akuma]

The whole "basic omnipotence" thing sort of spoils Death's books unless he has his powers somehow taken away, or he has to work within the Rules...

[dehro]

The whole "basic omnipotence" thing sort of spoils Death's books unless he has his powers somehow taken away, or he has to work within the Rules...

which is why he has some major flaws when it comes to comprehending humans and human behaviours, and then again, it is not entirely true.
he is not omnipotent...he is just... final
and this also is not entirely certain... think of Rincewind's hourglass, and of the uncertainity principle playing hell with DEATH's schedule...

[nagora]

EDIT:BTW can I say how happy I am to see so many Merkins on this thread.

May I say how happy I am to see that word back in use after all these years. :smallwink:

[Dragonmuncher]

What's a Merkin?



If I had to criticize Pratchett, the only thing I could think of is that he seems to be incapable of writing weak female characters.

Strong females? Granny, Nanny, Lady Ramkin, Vetenari's aunt (in Night Watch), Susan, Smoking-Lady-whose-name-escapes me from Going Postal, Twoflower's daughter, Angua, Tiffany Aching... basically any female with more than a few lines is pretty tough. Even Magrat has shown that she can be tough, when it comes down to it. Oh- the entire cast of Monstrous Regiment.

Strong males we've got- Vimes, Carrot, Cohen, the protaganists of a lot of the stand-alone novels (Pyramids, Small Gods, Moving Pictures, Going Postal).

Weak males? Sure. Nobby and Fred are often portrayed as kind of weak- anxious to avoid trouble and the like. A couple of the wizards, especially the earlier wizards. That dwarf in Thud that got really, really scared (those who have read it- you know who I mean). Some of the guys in Maskerade. They're around. Rincewind, for the most part.


But weak FEMALES? Umm... maybe some of Tiffany's sister witches in training? And that's not even really weakness, more like immaturity. And... that's about all I can think of. The old, old lady in the cottage from Witches Abroad, perhaps. And that's more like senile, than WEAK. When I say weakness, I mean weakness of character- too fearful, or modest, or accommadating, or passive, or whatever. Magrat would almost qualify, but she does have her moments of strength in each book (she's a mongoose!).


But, yeah, that's the only complaint I have. Oh, and I've never been a huge fan of Susan. I like the concept of her, and her dealings with children as a teacher and a nanny are awesome. I don't really feel like she's particularly human, though. And yes, I know, that's the point, but I find it's easier to empathize with even Death than her- her principal emotions seem to be "Grrr, this annoying supernatural stuff keeps happening to me. FINE, I'll save the world. AGAIN." And then there was the Thief of Time "Another person... like me? Maybe I could kiss him?" emotion, but it seemed like it was just sort of pasted in.

I think the problem is that in a Discworld where it seems every third thing is supernatural, that there are undead bars around, witches, wizards, gods, and who knows what else, and THEY all manage to find happiness... I don't know. I've just never really clicked with Susan.



Okay, so I guess that was two complaints.

[bosssmiley]

Llamedos, for what little we see of it, for reasons of real life pride.

What? Wait! Llamedos was a parody you say? :smallconfused:

...

:smallwink:

If you'll excuse me, I'm just off to confiscate Charity and Jibar's Flags of St George until they remember how to play nice. Patriotism means loving your culture, not hating others.

C'mon, you have to grudgingly admire any culture that can manage to survive for thousand years living on the same island as a people as dynamic, forceful and downright world-changing as the English. I like the fact the inhabitants of the British Isles eventually ganged up and nigh-well took over the rest of the world. :smallcool:

[bingo_bob]

I'd start with Small Gods. You'll have to re-read it at some point, probably after Thief of Time, but it's a pretty good starter.

From there, go from the start, in publishing order. As has been said before, the first 3 books aren't particularly great, but they are pretty good. Read this way until you have at least one from the 4 major arcs.

Now, choose an arc. The Death arc is pretty good, but tends to move in larger jumps in time than the others, so it might not be a good choice right away.

Read two or three books into this arc, then move into another one. Do this until you've got a couple in each arc. Going in this order helps you see the Discworld's development a bit better, so at no point do you really feel like you're taking a huge jump backwards in time.

From there, whatever you do is basically fine, though do try and read chronologically within an arc.


I would like to add that Night Watch is probably my favorite book. It's possibly one of the first really awesome books, though the prior ones are still great.

And my favorite arc is the Guards. So many characters that I love there. Then it's a tie between Death and Rincewind, and then the Witches, whom I don't really like.

[Overlard]

When I was younger, I kept trying to get into the Discworld books, but I just didn't enjoy them. Of course, I was reading the first two (Colour Of Magic & Light Fantastic), which are definitely the weakest in the series. After my friend pointed me in the right direction, I read Guards Guards! and haven't looked back.

Nightwatch is my favourite book of all time, I can't get enough of Small Gods and Death always makes me smile.

As far as weak entries go, I've never really liked Monstrous Regiment or most of the Rincewind-based ones. But make sure you read story arcs in order, rather than jumping in with the third witches book, or fourth city watch. You won't regret it.

[Dragonmuncher]

Yeah, Monstrous Regiment just really didn't do it for me. I didn't actively dislike it, but... I don't know. Also, the inclusion of Vimes at the end seemed kind of forced.

I liked the concept, and I especially liked the genre- seeing Pratchet do a war story was neat. I liked the characters, the patriotism thing was interesting (a very "it may be a miserable little country, but it's OUR miserable little country, dammit!" vibe), and I of course loved the little expansion on Discworld's theology and the power of belief.

Really, the whole way that belief works in Discworld is its central theme, I think. It's been said that Discworld is a world that runs of narrative- dramatic things happen because they're dramatic, and the like. But it's really more of an extension of belief. The more people believe something, and the stronger that belief is, the more power it has. Discworld Gods, witchcraft, the dragons in The Color of Magic (or was it Light Fantastic?), the power of stories (such as in Witches Abroad, or Maskerade), the priest in Carpe Jugulum, the various Anthropomorphic Personifications like Death, Chaos, and the Hogfather (all of which have changed as people's perceptions changed)... it's neat.