Which Level Does Each Class Become Fun?

[Jeebs]

I was never a big fan of Clerics for both fluff and crunch reasons, but now I think I could really have fun with a level 3+ Wood Elf Knowledge Cleric who casts Spiritual Weapon in the first round and waits to cast Bless until the second. That way I get to do something I see as fun every round, rather than "wasting" a turn.

Are there classes that don't get a "shtick" you like until specific levels?

Or are there classes that just don't look appealing at any level, with any subclass?

[Gastronomie]

Druids and Paladins suck at level 1, and require to be level 2 or higher to be worthwhile. Rogues before cunning action are also pretty lackluster.

Lore Bards get really fun at level 6. They're fun before that too, but level 6 is when they really kick in.
The same can be said for Paladins, with Aura of Protection.

Warlocks get quite a massive boost at level 11, with both a level 6 spell and three slots per short rest.

Most multiclass builds, especially gishes, have a level from which they start to really work (Paladin 2/Sorcerer 6 or 6/6, Fighter 1/Warlock 5 etc.)

[Arcangel4774]

To contrast another recent thread, I don't find eldritch knight fun until it reaches 7 (warmagic)

[JellyPooga]

I'll second Bards getting fun at 6th. Lore Bards particularly.

Rogues are great fun right from level 1 and never stop getting new and interesting toys throughout their career.

I find Fighters peter out a little after 5th; most of what they get in the mid to late game is just more of the same. Barbarians and Rangers suffer a similar problem, IMO.

Most spellcasters only start coming into their own at 5th, when 3rd level spells come online. 1st and 2nd level spells are good, don't get me wrong, but the limited use of them during those early levels limits them somewhat and the effects of 3rd level spells tend to be the iconic stuff; Fireball, Counterspell, Fly, etc.

[Pex]

Warlocks hate level 1. One spell slot. No invocations. Half-joking, it's probably why skeletons and zombies are not resistant to necrotic damage. First level characters can face them, and it could make warlock players quit the game if not even their only good thing at this level Hex spell could affect them.

Clerics dislike level 1. No Channel Energy Divinity. No turning the skeletons/zombies is bad enough, but not having their domain channeling is what stings. It's not as hateful to them as warlocks because they can have AC 18 easily regardless of domain for breathing room.

[Specter]

Add ranger to the list of boring at level 1.

[jas61292]

Personally, I find all classes to be fun from level 1, but especially those that a lot of other people here are calling not fun at level 1. To me, the less class features you have the more you really get into your character and figure out who you are are a character, rather than as a class. And that is the most fun part to me.

[Yora]

Are you playing Fantasy Adventures or Fantasy Tactical Skirmishes? For the former, special abilities are largely irrelevant. D&D didn't really have class features or special attacks for the first 26 years. You got your one attack per round and that was it.

[MrStabby]

So I think there are two stages. The first is when you distinguish yourself from other classes, the second is when you get to distinguish your character from others of the same class.

So Rogue, I think is fun from level 1. It gets both sneak attack and expertise - two iconic abilities. Sure it gets more from level 2 onwards but you feel the things that make them a rogue. I would then say level 3 where the archetypes come online is where they get a next bump in fun.

For a wizard I would say it's level 5. At low levels you can be covered by other casters - throwing spells at enemies to kill them off is covered by warlocks and sorcerers as well so no great differentiation. The big step is when you begin to get more specialist spells and learn enough spells that the ability to chose between items in your spellbook on each day is what sets you apart. As long at the best spells for an upcoming day are always the same then this is not great differentiator.

For the martial classes there is a bit of a spectrum. Fighters get good stuff at low levels, but a lot of it is just what other classes get, but more of it. I think there is a small step up at level 6 with the first bonus ASI and you can customise the character a little more, but even then you are not doing anything that others couldn't (basically you still rely on the Action surge to be unique to you). For fighters, I think they really stand out at level 3 for battlemaster, 7 for eldritch knight and a step up in fun at 11 when there is a 3rd attack, unique to the fighter. Paladins get smiting at level 2 and can really begin to feel like paladins then and their oath at level 3 is a big RP and mechanical shift. Rangers feel different at level 6 because other classes get nice things. Monks are interesting - the extra attack at level 5 is less of an issue to them as they get other ways of upping attacks, but stunning is a major archetypal ability for them. That said, monks get a lot of differentiating features below that level - martial arts, unarmoured defence, Ki abilities - for different players the big step in fun might come from any of those levels.

Barbarians kick in with unique features pretty fast. Rage from level 1 and unarmoured defence set aside the barbarian. Reckless attack just builds on those themes. Archetype at level 3 not only adds power but also potentially some good out of combat abilities. I would argue that by level 5 and the extra attack you are already mechanically having things that non barbarians don't.

Clerics are a bit odd because I think it varies a lot by domain. Life gets it's archetypal domain ability at level 1, but none of its domain spells are really new to clerics. On the other hand, light clerics are probably waiting for fireball at level 5 to get the reason they picked that domain.

[MaxWilson]

I was never a big fan of Clerics for both fluff and crunch reasons, but now I think I could really have fun with a level 3+ Wood Elf Knowledge Cleric who casts Spiritual Weapon in the first round and waits to cast Bless until the second. That way I get to do something I see as fun every round, rather than "wasting" a turn.

Are there classes that don't get a "shtick" you like until specific levels?

Or are there classes that just don't look appealing at any level, with any subclass?

My opinions:

Bard: level 6 for Lore Bards/Magical Secrets. Level 10 for Valor Bards. They're okay already at level 5 (Fear/Hypnotic Pattern/Font of Inspiration) but Magical Secrets is their real shtick.
Barbarian: level 5, for Extra Attack. It's okay at level 1 but Extra Attack is important to the feel of the class to differentiate from wizards/warlocks/clerics/etc.
Cleric: never. Clerics are lame. But mechanically they're fun at level 1, w/ Bless/Shield of Faith/Sanctuary.
Druid: level 2 for Moon Druids (wildshape). Never for Land druids--you'll always regret not being a Moon Druid instead.
Fighter: level 11 for their defining Extra Attack feature. They're all right starting at level 6 though, when they get their second feat, to distinguish them from Barbarians and Paladins.
Monk: level 3 for Shadow Monks (Pass Without Trace/Darkness), level 6 for Death Monks (at-will fear), level 11 for Elemental Monks (Fireball!), never for Open Hand/Sun Soul monks (lame).
Paladin: level 6 for aura of protection. They are pretty fun already at level 2 though, because you get to play with paladin spells like Wrathful Smite and Compelled Duel--but level 6 is a major milestone and your raison d'etre.
Ranger: level 9, I think, for the combination of ranged Sharpshooter sniping and a horde of conjured animal meat shields from behind which to snipe. Level 5 is already pretty fun with Extra Attack, Horde Breaker, and Spike Growth for quasi-crowd control, but level 9 is where it starts to get really fun.
Rogue: level 2 for Cunning Action.
Sorcerer: I'm not sure if a single-classed sorcerer ever becomes really fun, because of the spell pressure, but I've had some fun with multi-classed sorcerers starting at level 3 when you get metamagic and Web/Blur/Suggestion. E.g. Quickened Blur, Careful Web.
Warlock: level 2 for invocations. The warlock's defining feature. A Spell Sniper Agonizing Repellling Blast warlock is fun already at level 2.
Wizard: fun from level 1, e.g. Expeditious Retreat/Fire Bolt/Find Familiar/Shield/Mage Armor.

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Are you playing Fantasy Adventures or Fantasy Tactical Skirmishes? For the former, special abilities are largely irrelevant. D&D didn't really have class features or special attacks for the first 26 years. You got your one attack per round and that was it.

He didn't ask when characters become fun. He asked when classes become fun. I take that as asking, "What is the point at which you start really enjoying the fact that your PC is an X instead of a 0th-level character?"

[MeeposFire]

I think part of it ends up being when do you get the important things you like and when can you use it enough that you have fun with it?

For instance many spellcasters to me just are not that fun until I get enough spell slots to use consistently and their effects actually become interesting. More often than not that makes it around level 5 for most casters to me with the exception of the cleric which gets going around level two what with their fun domain abilities.

To me warrior types get more fun earlier because a lot of their stuff does not require resource use or little of it. For instance even before extra attack warriors types are fun to me because they can do what they are supposed to do very early. A fighter is pretty good at even level one because he can hold the line and hit fairly nicely with any weapon. That is exactly what I want from it. At level 2 it becomes even better because then I can put on a burst of damage if needed. This is of course for general fighters I will say that EK is still fun at these lower levels but does not become any more fun specifically as an EK until level 7.

[2D8HP]

Usually the most gratifying level for me in 5e is second, besides surviving to reach it, if multi-classing is allowed, I get to add a level of Fighter or Rogue to a PC that lacked it.


Are you playing Fantasy Adventures or Fantasy Tactical Skirmishes? For the former, special abilities are largely irrelevant. D&D didn't really have class features or special attacks for the first 26 years. You got your one attack per round and that was it.

Preach it!

(BTW, D&D started as a spin-off of Chainmail which was a Medieval tactical wargame with a fantasy appendix. I owned it and I never was sure of what the rules meant).

[beargryllz]

Single class, usually either lvl 1 or 2

Barbarian is gg at 2 (advantage forever and rage dmg)

Fighters are gg at 2 (action surge, style)

Ranger is gg at 2 (style, hunter's mark)

Rogues are gg at 2 (cunning action, sneak attack)

Arcane are gg at 1 (sleep, charm)

I haven't played many divine magic users

If you don't have optimized stats, then you usually kick in at lvl 3/4 with the subclass features and an ability boost or feat

Multiclass builds generally don't work until later in the game. The infamous pal/sorc will always be behind early on but probably ends up stronger than anyone later in the game.

I'm doing a fighter 1/rogue 1/sorc 1 with the sharpshooter feat right now. He can do a lot and is fun to play, but doesn't have a huge presence yet. I open with sleep and then I either insta-kill with a ranged shot or miss and panic. I realized you can just use sleep and then slit the guy's throat next round but that is a trick that only works once/encounter and only if you don't have any enemies interfere with you. I'm guessing I could get action surge + BM features or assassinate and be pretty content for the rest of the game, regardless of what I choose to lvl afterwards and the order shouldn't matter too much.

[Slipperychicken]

In a good game, I tend to have fun from level 1 onward regardless of class.

However, that only really kicked in when I tried to obsess less about game mechanics and started thinking about what makes roleplaying games enjoyable. When I was fixated on my character's special powers and game statistics, I often found myself feeling like I was waiting for some special moment where my PC would become great and the fun could begin.


edit: As for effectiveness, your most important tools are not special powers, but the gameplay strategy you bring to the table. That means things like being properly equipped, knowing how to communicate to get what you want from NPCs, having backup equipment, effectively gathering intelligence, thinking your plans through, having a competent and well-balanced party, having exit-strategies, taking reasonable precautions, reviewing procedures for handling common adventuring scenarios, knowing when to flee, and many more. If your group has a solid grasp of these adventuring basics, then you're likely to last a lot longer and achieve much more at every level.

[RickAllison]

For ultimate fun, Wizards at level 7. 5 gives good power for wizards as it does for every character, but the convergence of the second archetype feature at 6 with the level 4 spells makes one truly feel like a wizard of that school.

Malleable Illusions, Benign Teleportation, and Tranmuter's Stone all represent useful abilities that really express the wizard's mastery of how magic works through study. Level 4 spells include such gems as Fabricate, Hallucinatory Terrain, and Wall of Fire are about finding new and wizardly ways to shape the battlefield and to solve obstacles. But mainly Fabricate. Fabricate combined with the right tool proficiency means the wizard can actually leave adventuring and have a very wealthy lifestyle. Also just a fun spell for baking.

[JumboWheat01]

Fun is subjective, but for me personally, when the specializations start coming online, so usually by level 3, though earlier for some classes.

[Nifft]

D&D didn't really have class features or special attacks for the first 26 years. You got your one attack per round and that was it.

My 1e Ranger at level 1 would argue with that -- and he'd win, because his class features meant he'd surprise you on a roll of 2-6 (and negate surprise except on a 1 himself), and because his other class feature meant that he attacked first during a combat round (and also last, because he had two attacks) thanks to his weapon proficiency.

So... yeah. What you're saying is blatantly untrue.

[MaxWilson]

Usually the most gratifying level for me in 5e is second, besides surviving to reach it, if multi-classing is allowed, I get to add a level of Fighter or Rogue to a PC that lacked it.

Taking Fighter as your level 2 seems like a waste, because you don't get heavy armor proficiency or Con save proficiency. Most of the time if you want Fighter levels, you want them at level 1.

[NecroDancer]

Personally I find that all the classes are the most fun at level 20 (especially the spellcasting classes).

[2D8HP]

Taking Fighter as your level 2 seems like a waste, because you don't get heavy armor proficiency or Con save proficiency. Most of the time if you want Fighter levels, you want them at level 1.True, I usually start as a Fighter now, but my first Fighter/Rogue started as a Rogue, and I was happy with both the utility of my PC as a 1st level Rogue, and at the goodies the PC got with a level of Fighter, but I'm happier still with a level of both!

[Anderlith]

I figure its when your archetype is available. Wizards & even gishes are fun even near the beginning. Sure once more stuff starts coming online youll have fun finally owning your character vision, but i find fun in adversity so as long as i have one little nifty thing to make me feel interesting then im having fun

[theMycon]

A bard has access to Disguise Self, Minor Illusion, and all skills at level 1. If you're not having fun with him, you're doing it wrong.

[mgshamster]

I've had fun with every character at every level I've played.

If you look at a PC as more than just a collection of numbers and statistics on a character sheet, you may stop judging fun by only the mechanical abilities of a class.

[RickAllison]

I've had fun with every character at every level I've played.

If you look at a PC as more than just a collection of numbers and statistics on a character sheet, you may stop judging fun by only the mechanical abilities of a class.

Indeed. There is more fun to be had by an ability that lets you interact with the world in a new way than by rolling a few more dice. Unless you play the game specifically to roll dice, which it would seem would be better served by playing Yahtzee, Elder Signs, or Craps.

[Plaguescarred]

I don't need my character to get to a certain level to become fun i have fun at any level that's how i enjoy D&D!

But i'd say at level 3 characters really get more defining with very interesting choice offer!

[MaxWilson]

A bard has access to Disguise Self, Minor Illusion, and all skills at level 1. If you're not having fun with him, you're doing it wrong.

You know, I don't find Minor Illusion all that much fun. Maybe if it could move or at least be picked up, it would be fun, but a floating static hologram has only moderate utility in my eyes.

Disguise Self can be quite fun though.

[Sigreid]

I find them all fun at level 1. But I'm something of an anomaly because I tend to enjoy the building of power to the actually having of power. I enjoy the struggle and the greater threat of eminent doom.

[D.U.P.A.]

I do not agree that Druid is not fun at level 1. You can have both melee/ranged attacks at level of martial classes using based on your spellcasting stat, reducing your MADness. Then you have Goodberry spell, which makes it much easier to optimize healing without random effect in healing spells. Although these things become rather obsolete as you level, so it is not advised if you try to run a longer campaign. Most boring at level 1 is definitely the (pre revised) Ranger, having basically no notable features if you are not in the right terrain and fighting right enemies. Aiming for Eldritch knight from the first level is also a bit lame without Magic initiate feat if it takes too long, since you need to keep a rather useless attribute for some time.

[Cybren]

You know, I don't find Minor Illusion all that much fun. Maybe if it could move or at least be picked up, it would be fun, but a floating static hologram has only moderate utility in my eyes.

Disguise Self can be quite fun though.

Not minor illusion, but I did once use silent image along with message to convince a bunch of bandits their hideout was haunted at low levels.

[VincentTakeda]

I enjoyed my pathfinder evolutionist summoner pretty much immediately. Before that I mostly played wizards and found I started enjoying them around level 7.

[Zippdementia]

It heavily depends on your definition of fun. If you are looking at D&D as a miniatures game, based on number crunching and how much utility your character has, then you are probably going to find most of the classes boring until at least third level, and sixth level in many cases.

But if you play, like I do, for story and characterization in addition to all the combat, then I think fun has more to do with the character you've created and how good a GM is at giving your character fun things to do, and much less on your class abilities.

[2D8HP]

Usually the most gratifying level for me in 5e is second, besides surviving to reach it, if multi-classing is allowed, I get to add a level of Fighter or Rogue to a PC that lacked it.

Taking Fighter as your level 2 seems like a waste, because you don't get heavy armor proficiency or Con save proficiency. Most of the time if you want Fighter levels, you want them at level 1.It also depends on party composition. I like Fighters because "hit with sword", and "hit with arrow" are actions that appeal to me, but most of the time there's another PC thats gig is also doing damage (Paladin, Warlock etc.), but by taking Rogue I can max DEX and WIS, and get Expertise in Perception and Stealth, and be the one "sneaky scout" in the party instead of a "me too".
If I can start my PC above first level then I'll make the build "start" as a Fighter (or sometimes Barbarbian) first, but otherwise it often depends on the party.
A 20th level "Ancients" Paladin looks like it would be awesome, but otherwise. I always want a level in Fighter and Rogue.
I think Ranger would be good too, but now my "imaginary" build would be Barbarian 1 (Unarmored defense, and those sweet starting HP), Rogue 1, then Fighter 18 (for Survivor).
What do you think?

[Tanarii]

If I've got a good DM, level 1 is when the fun starts.

That said, I find most classes get more fun at certain levels: 2 or 3 (depending on class), four if fears are available, and 5. Really five is the big 'fun' breakpoint, but that's working as intended. I think they did a good job of ramping up the fun over the first few levels.


You know, I don't find Minor Illusion all that much fun. Maybe if it could move or at least be picked up, it would be fun, but a floating static hologram has only moderate utility in my eyes.
IMX most people who really find Minor Illusion super fun are breaking its restrictions.

[Ashrym]

I can have fun at any level with any class. I focus on the character concept and play to it.

[Joe the Rat]

All classes will have something fun and relatively distinct by 2: most full Casters have their archetypes. Other classes have a key class feature:action surge, cunning action, reckless attack, shapechange, invocations, halfcaster casting.
By 3, every class has stared their archetypes, full casters get 2nd level spells (web, invisibility, scorching ray, spiritual weapon, shatter! shatter!), so you have the foundations of your character.
This is where classes should definitely be into the fun zone.

Tier 2 is not about more fun (though it is, really), but having your next bracket of abilities ("the classics") come into play.
5: 3rd level spells (Fireball, Flight, Spirit Guardians, Animate Dead), and Extra Attack for Martials, Vicious Mockery could kill a goblin.
6: 2nd ASI for Fighters, Archetype abilities for everyone else [Thought: Swap 6 ASI and 7 Archetype feature on EKs?]

[Herobizkit]

4 if your DM allows feats, 5 if she doesn't.

Low-level play does little (heh) for me after nearly 30 years of failed/reset campaigns. ^_^