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View Full Version : DM Help A tiny dragon grabs onto you; what's a bugbear to do?



Talix
2016-11-05, 07:59 PM
Hello all you helpful forum-goers!

One of my players plays a tiny-size dragon mutt, semi-based on a pseudodragon. He has some natural weapons, flight, and a once-a-day breath weapon that randomly varies in type, including a completely ineffective option, and he basically took "dragon" as his first level. He's also semi-empathic and can understand languages but not speak, so he has to get creative to convey anything he finds while scouting to the rest of the party. So far it's been mostly crude sketches in the dirt, which I make him actually do, with some hilarious comprehension or lack thereof results. It's working out pretty well so far.

However, last session, the party came up on a bugbear which I expected to be a major challenge since they were only level 2 and some of them were fighting goblins at the time. Smut the dragon flew at the back of the bugbear; being tiny he had to enter its space to attack. Using inspiration he got a great hit with his claws. So far so good.

Smut then decided in order to minimize attacks from nearby goblins he was going to stop in the bugbear's space, and basically grab onto his shoulders and hang on. The bugbear was wielding a wickedly spiked morningstar, so couldn't exactly swing it at the tiny dragon clinging to it's back. I decided that it grabbed at the dragon in a grapple, and when a contested strength check resulted in critical success by bugbear and critical failure by dragon, I ruled that instead of just getting a good grip (leaving him open to attacks by other members of the party and not really solving his problem), it flung Smut violently off him into the wall. Rolling poorly (and taking into account winged braking speed), Smut only took 1 damage. Regardless, that was the bugbear's turn.

When Smut's turn came back around, he charged back at the bugbear in an attempt to figuratively claw it's eyes out. Another good hit, and he again stopped on the bugbear. Seeing the futility of flinging him off, I decided it wasn't stupid enough to swing the spiked morning star full bore at it's face (as Smut's player was hoping, even if they both took the damage), so I had it try to sort of half-swing to scrape Smut off of him. One critical failure later, and the bugbear took the half-damage roll I had planned for Smut.

Next round, Smut digs into the bugbear's innards some more and it goes down. It was honestly a little horrifying to picture in my mind, sort of like the Alien facehuggers only with claws and teeth. I figured it was a pretty darn heroic moment for the little guy, especially as the party was getting pretty depleted at that point, so I didn't fuss too much at the time. However, I wanted to ask you, the community, what a better option might have been to deal with that type of attack (for the monster or as a DM), especially as I don't want they to become the fate of all future bad guys. 😝

Describing it now, maybe I should have made it difficult to grab on, as something hovering in your space would be much easier to swat? Require an action to grab on, as it generally takes an action to pull off (witness the Stirge), instead of just allowing him to land by finishing his movement there?

I did have the bugbear toss him next to an ally, so it got an AoO as Smut charged to the bugbear again, but it missed.

Maybe grapple Smut and use him as a shield against other attacks, while using his action in subsequent turns to rip him apart (more opposed strength checks, with damage based in some way on the difference in the checks)? That sounds most effective in retrospect. Ah, hindsight. 😉

I'm curious as to what you all would have done. This is only my 5th or so session being a DM, so definitely winging it in unexpected situations!

Thank you for your time,

Talix

SharkForce
2016-11-05, 08:19 PM
there are optional rules for climbing on larger creatures in the DMG, as i understand it. i haven't personally looked them up, but you may want to start there.

Talix
2016-11-05, 08:35 PM
there are optional rules for climbing on larger creatures in the DMG, as i understand it. i haven't personally looked them up, but you may want to start there.

Thank you, I'll check that out!

JackPhoenix
2016-11-05, 08:42 PM
I certainly wouldn't allow the dragon to land on an enemy just because it ended its movement in the same space... that's what grapple/climb on a bigger creature is for. So not without spending actions on that instead of attacking. No tearing it apart with Str check either, unless the creature have some ability like that. Unarmed attack can be fluffed like that, but it would use both attacker's hands and he'd need to grapple his target first: I've seen a barbarian strangle his foe like that, in game terms, grappling the enemy with one hand and unarmed strikes with the other (Tavern Brawler, so he wasn't entirely useless).

Talix
2016-11-05, 08:59 PM
I certainly wouldn't allow the dragon to land on an enemy just because it ended its movement in the same space... that's what grapple/climb on a bigger creature is for. So not without spending actions on that instead of attacking. No tearing it apart with Str check either, unless the creature have some ability like that. Unarmed attack can be fluffed like that, but it would use both attacker's hands and he'd need to grapple his target first: I've seen a barbarian strangle his foe like that, in game terms, grappling the enemy with one hand and unarmed strikes with the other (Tavern Brawler, so he wasn't entirely useless).

Page 271 of the DMG describes this situation very well. The smaller creature takes an action to make an Acrobatics or Athletics check against the larger creature's Acrobatics check to climb on. The larger can take an action to dislodge with the same checks on both sides (specifically mentions grab and throw as one of the descriptions!). While attached, smaller has advantage to attack and can move around as difficult terrain. Up to DM based on situation as to how or if larger can attack smaller.

I'm reasonably happy to say I got it pretty well with my ad-hoc rules, with the exception of it taking an action, and a good story was told. In the future if it comes up again, I'll just say "it dodges your attempt to land on it", and describe what he has to do to try with an action.

I agree, tearing apart would be two-handed, and good idea with using unarmed strikes as a measure of damage. Thanks!

Gollumstripes
2016-11-05, 11:57 PM
Page 271 of the DMG describes this situation very well. The smaller creature takes an action to make an Acrobatics or Athletics check against the larger creature's Acrobatics check to climb on. The larger can take an action to dislodge with the same checks on both sides (specifically mentions grab and throw as one of the descriptions!). While attached, smaller has advantage to attack and can move around as difficult terrain. Up to DM based on situation as to how or if larger can attack smaller.

I'm reasonably happy to say I got it pretty well with my ad-hoc rules, with the exception of it taking an action, and a good story was told. In the future if it comes up again, I'll just say "it dodges your attempt to land on it", and describe what he has to do to try with an action.

I agree, tearing apart would be two-handed, and good idea with using unarmed strikes as a measure of damage. Thanks!

This sounds like a good idea

Occasional Sage
2016-11-06, 12:09 AM
Smut then decided in order to minimize attacks from nearby goblins he was going to stop in the bugbear's space, and basically grab onto his shoulders and hang on. The bugbear was wielding a wickedly spiked morningstar, so couldn't exactly swing it at the tiny dragon clinging to it's back. I decided that it grabbed at the dragon in a grapple, and when a contested strength check resulted in critical success by bugbear and critical failure by dragon, I ruled that instead of just getting a good grip (leaving him open to attacks by other members of the party and not really solving his problem), it flung Smut violently off him into the wall. Rolling poorly (and taking into account winged braking speed), Smut only took 1 damage. Regardless, that was the bugbear's turn.


This is where the bugbear went wrong. If a tiny dragon intends to harass me, I'm not going to toss it aside and hope it doesn't come back; once I've got a grip on it, I'm'a juice that dragon like a piece of ginger (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k1yZKjRo5Q) on my morning star.