Incorporeal Scouts?

[kalos72]

My campaign is looking for a class/race/construct that would make the perfect scout for our armies.

We will be scouting mostly rural areas, forest/mountains/underdark.

Umbral Spy is a great option but I think it might be overkill for simply scouting and mapping out areas to weed out evil orc hordes, drow camps and the like.

Unbodied sims maybe? Warforged Scouts with silence and darkness on them? Maybe something incorporeal?

[kalos72]

Surely someone has some thoughts?

What about using a necro to command his undead - wraiths to fly over the area and scout it? Can you remote view through an undead?

Maybe just some bound earth elementals for the mountains/Underdark?

[Troacctid]

I would use coure eladrin. You can summon them en masse with call faithful servants, and they're incorporeal and quite stealthy.

[Nifft]

You can lesser planar bind any number of Lantern Archon Scouts (level 5 or 6 each, depending on whether the initial racial HD is subsumed).

It's a good scout, and it's even a decent ranged support attacker, especially if it took Improved Skirmish for its 6 HD feat.

[ben-zayb]

Maybe a Savage progression Ghost 1?

Personally, I prefer going for a Fiend of Possession (maybe with Kaorti or Divine Minion Diabolus entry), which even bypasses magical means to detect you.

[Inevitability]

You can lesser planar bind any number of Lantern Archon Scouts (level 5 or 6 each, depending on whether the initial racial HD is subsumed).

It's a good scout, and it's even a decent ranged support attacker, especially if it took Improved Skirmish for its 6 HD feat.

Lantern Archons aren't incorporeal though.

[barakaka]

There's always the Ghost Template from Ghostwalk Campaign Option!

[Septimus]

Shadow Demon in Pathfinder: incorporeal, invisible in most situation, fast flying, teleport and telepathy. Can possess people (i.e. low level commoner) as extra task.

[Nifft]

Lantern Archons aren't incorporeal though.

Ah, good point. Must have been thinking of some other Celestial's ball-of-light form.

A coure eladrin could do some good with ~4 levels of Scout, but she won't hit that sweet spot of level 5 before exceeding the 6 HD limit on LPB.

[Starbuck_II]

There is a template: Phantom (LA not mentioned, but 1 isn't unreasonable, but +2 is fair)
Drawback: Takes 1.5 damage from Ghost touch weapons
Incorporeal (swift action start/end, immune non-magical, Corporeal attacks deal 50% damage to it. Force effects affect normally
All Phantoms gain a deflection bonus to Armor Class equal to their Charisma bonus or +1, whichever is higher. A base creature of CR 5 or higher gains the following special quality.
Phantom Defense(Su.): A Phantom's armor bonus, deflection bonus, natural armor bonus, and shield bonus count toward its Armor Class, whether it or its attackers are incorporeal or corporeal."

Until HD 5, it isn't that strong.

[kalos72]

Great replies, thank you!

The FoP option I have never seen before, being able to possess an object is awesome. Just drop that nice sword on the ground, possess it and let the bad guy take it home. Throw it on a psionic and let them read thoughts/minds all while being IN the object.

This seems like the ultimate spy for most scenarios I am looking at.

How could a psion "hide" himself from being detected? Say I possess a person just to ease drop/follow or to find the monsters lair, how do I keep them from knowing I am there?

Would the possessed spirit just cause the item to identify as magic or something?

[kalos72]

You can lesser planar bind any number of Lantern Archon Scouts (level 5 or 6 each, depending on whether the initial racial HD is subsumed).

It's a good scout, and it's even a decent ranged support attacker, especially if it took Improved Skirmish for its 6 HD feat.

This is a nice option actually, summoning of any kind helps here actually. I was thinking of maybe using undead to scout but I would need to get the information back to my group some how and if they die before communicating that back to the group, all we might know is roughly where it was.

Could the FoP, either as possessing a person or object, or the Archon just carry an "auto mapping" device? Think of the underdark maps type of item...

[kalos72]

Bump on this topic...my guys want to use a telepath / thrallherd / fiend of possession for these scouting scenarios...nice. Need a cool "group" name for these scouts/spies now. :)

I still like the Call Faithful Servants summoning option for some things though.

Still unsure how to get maps handled the FoP way though, we would want the areas we scout mapped out as we go.

[unseenmage]

Use Awaken Sand from Sandstorm on some Shapesand. Creates real actual creatures with free will and sentience who are Friendly to their creator.

Takes them forever to change their own Shapesand body, they'd have to do it in sections, unless their Wis gets buffed.

The spell Greater Humanoid Essence from Races of Eberron makes them Humanoids for the duration. Use the opportunity to a) Telepathic Bond them and b) use Mineralize Warrior from Underdark on them.

Now they're hive minded, slow shapechanging, burrowing Constructs.

As for stealth, they can become tents, wagons, carts, weapon racks, beds, you name it. And since they burrow they can do all of that shapechanging underground.

[kalos72]

So your saying shapesand a bunch of "bats" forms, Awaken them.

Then Greater Humanoid Essense them to a humanoid in little bat bodies, buff them, then apply the Mineralize Warrior template to add burrow.

Shapesand gives them the ability to shape change and Mineralize Warrior gives them burrow? What gives me control over them?

[unseenmage]

So your saying shapesand a bunch of "bats" forms, Awaken them.

Then Greater Humanoid Essense them to a humanoid in little bat bodies, buff them, then apply the Mineralize Warrior template to add burrow.

Shapesand gives them the ability to shape change and Mineralize Warrior gives them burrow? What gives me control over them?

First, they're gonna be big. Real big. Huge IIRC. And that will be expensive. Fair warning.

As to control...Your choice really. Either ask them very nicely since they are friendly or Diplonance them.
Mineralize Warrior gives the caster control of the subject for a year and a day IIRC.

Or just Monstrous Thrall them while they're Humanoid.

edit: Found my old statblock for these things.

AWAKENED SAND SHAPESAND
Awakened Shapesands come in all sizes, shapes, and colors. They owe their existence as creatures to spells such as Awaken Sand or similar supernatural abilities.

A spellcaster awakens a volume of shapesand, to humanlike sentience.
To succeed, the spellcaster must make a DC 18 Will save. The awakened shapesand is friendly toward the spellcaster. The spellcaster has no special empathy or connection with shapesand they awaken, although it serves them in specific tasks or endeavors if they communicate their desire to it.
The shapesand creature the spellcaster awakens has the same statistics as a Huge animated object with a base land speed of 40 feet and a burrow speed of 20 feet. Unlike normal animated objects, awakened sand beings have the earth subtype, and their Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores are each 3d6. A sand being has immunity to polymorphing.
The awakened shapesand can speak one language the spellcaster knows (usually Common), plus one additional language that they know per point of Intelligence bonus (if any) it has.
Sand creatures are amorphous and can do anything sand would be expected to do—hide perfectly atop other sand, form into dunes and drifts, and pour through small openings (although passing through an opening two size categories smaller than the creature takes a full-round action).

SHAPESAND
Shapesand shares many properties with the stuff of uncontrolled Limbo—raw energy that can be molded into any form desired, according to the will of the shaper. The new shape is still composed of sand, but it has the qualities of the object it mimics.
Certain individuals attain a level of mastery over shapesand that allows them to exceed the substance’s normal limitations (see the sand shaper prestige class, Sandstorm, page 76). Even someone without that mastery can attempt to manipulate shapesand or take control of a shapesand item that was created by someone else (see the description of shapesand as a special material, Sandstorm, page 102).

Item Size DC
1 cu. ft. or less –5
1.1–2.0 cu. ft. 0
2.1–4.0 cu. ft. 5
4.1–8.0 cu. ft. 10
8.1–12.0 cu. ft. 15
12.1–16.0 cu. ft. 20
16.1–24.0 cu. ft. 25
24.1–30.0 cu. ft. 30

Item Complexity Modifier
Fine details +2
Functioning tool +2
Functioning armor/weapon +5
Multiple parts +5
Masterwork version +10
Moving parts +10


Craft (Alchemy)
Item Cost DC Weight
Shapesand (jug) 100 gp 25 12 lb.

Shapesand is a special kind of wasteland soil that is psychoreactive; it can be sculpted into any form according to your will. The new object is made of sand, but serves as a normal item of the same sort.
A shapesand hammer functions just like an ordinary hammer, and a shapesand waterskin is just as watertight as an ordinary skin.
Controlling shapesand is an exercise in willpower. A DC 16 Wisdom check establishes control of a volume of sand based on the shaper’s Wisdom score:

Wisdom Score Controllable Volume
1–3 None
4–7 1-ft. cube
8–11 2-1/2-ft. cube
12–15 5-ft. cube
16–19 7-1/2-ft. cube
20–23 10-ft. cube
24+ +2-1/2 ft per 4 points of Wisdom

If your Wisdom check succeeds, you can reshape the volume of sand as you desire. Once control is established, the shape lasts as long as you remain within 100 feet of it.
Thus, those with sufficient patience and strong enough will can construct small fortresses out of shapesand, even if they must do so a few cubic feet at a time.
Another character can wrest control of a shapesand item away from you by succeeding on an opposed Wisdom check, though the winner’s Wisdom score must be high enough to shape an item the size of the one contested. For example, if two characters are attempting to control a 5-foot cube of shapesand, the challenger must not only beat his opponent’s roll, but must also have a Wisdom score of at least 12.
If you are a sand shaper (new prestige class, see Sandstorm, page 76) or a cleric with the Sand domain (see Sandstorm, page 107) using shapesand in conjunction with your sand shaping abilities, you do not count shapesand items against the total number of items you can maintain at one time. In addition, if you are a sand shaper, you can give control of shapesand objects to other individuals, and those items persist even if the new owner takes them outside the normal 100-foot control area. The new owner need not make a Wisdom check to establish control of the item, so long as his Wisdom score meets the minimum requirement for the object’s volume.
COMBAT
Awakened Shapesand fight often as directed by the animator. Since they do not need to breathe and never tire, they can be extremely capable allies. An Awakened Shapesand, like an animated object, can have one or more of the following special abilities, depending on its form.

Engulf (Ex): A sand creature can engulf Large or smaller creatures as a standard action. It cannot make a slam attack during a round in which it engulfs.
The sand creature merely has to move over the opponents, affecting as many as it can cover. Opponents can make attacks of opportunity against the creature, but if they do so they are not entitled to a saving throw.
Those who do not attempt attacks of opportunity must succeed on a DC 19 Reflex save or be engulfed; on a success, they are pushed back or aside (opponent’s choice) as the creature moves forward. Engulfed opponents are considered grappled and are trapped within the sand creature’s body. The sand creature deals 1d6+3 points of damage to trapped opponents each round after the one in which it engulfed them.
Opponents that need to breathe risk suffocation (see page 304 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide). The save DC is Strength-based.

Blind (Ex): A sheetlike Awakened Shapesand such as a carpet or tapestry can grapple an opponent up to three sizes larger than itself. The Awakened Shapesand makes a normal grapple check. If it wins, it wraps itself around the opponent’s head, causing that creature to be blinded until removed.
Constrict (Ex): A flexible Awakened Shapesand such as a rope, vine, or rug deals damage equal to its slam damage value plus 1- 1/2 times its Strength bonus with a successful grapple check against a creature up to one size larger than itself.
An Awakened Shapesand of at least Large size can make constriction attacks against multiple creatures at once, if they all are at least two sizes smaller than the Awakened Shapesand and can fit under it.
Hardness (Ex): A Awakened Shapesand has the same hardness as the substance it is emulating (see Table 9–9 and Table 9–11, page 166 of the Player’s Handbook, for the hardness of some common substances and objects).
Improved Speed (Ex): The base land speed given in the statistics block assume that a Awakened Shapesand lurches, rocks, or slithers along. Awakened Shapesand with two legs (statues, ladders) or a similar shape that allows faster movement have a +10 foot bonus to speed. Awakened Shapesand with multiple legs (tables, chairs) have a +20 foot bonus to speed. Wheeled Awakened Shapesand have a +40 foot bonus to speed.
Awakened Shapesand might have additional modes of movement. A wooden Awakened Shapesand can float and has a swim speed equal to half its land speed. A rope or similar sinuous Awakened Shapesand has a climb speed equal to half its land speed. A sheetlike Awakened Shapesand can fly (clumsy maneuverability) at half its normal speed.
Trample (Ex): An Awakened Shapesand of at least Large size and with a hardness of at least 10 can trample creatures two or more sizes smaller than itself, dealing damage equal to the Awakened Shapesand’s slam damage + 1-1/2 times its Strength bonus. Opponents who do not make attacks of opportunity against the Awakened Shapesand can attempt Reflex saves (DC 10 + 1/2 Minor Servitor’s HD + object’s Str modifier) to halve the damage.


Awakened Shapesand, Huge Construct (Earth)
Hit Dice: 8d10+40 (84 hp)
Initiative: –1
Speed: 40 ft. (4 squares); Burrow 20 ft.
Armor Class: 13 (–2 size, –1 Dex, +6 natural), touch 7, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+19
Attack: Slam +9 melee (3d6+7)
Full Attack: Slam +9 melee (3d6+7)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft. (long), 15 ft./15 ft. (tall)
Special Attacks: Engulf (Ex); also see text
Special Qualities: Construct traits, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, immunity to polymorphing; also see text
Shapesand (Ex)
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +1, Will +2
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 8, Con —,
Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Spot +5, Listen +5, Search +2
Feats: Cleave, Power Attack, Run
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 5
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

[kalos72]

Are talking about the Mineral Warrior Template or the spell?

[ben-zayb]

Great replies, thank you!

The FoP option I have never seen before, being able to possess an object is awesome. Just drop that nice sword on the ground, possess it and let the bad guy take it home. Throw it on a psionic and let them read thoughts/minds all while being IN the object.

This seems like the ultimate spy for most scenarios I am looking at.

How could a psion "hide" himself from being detected? Say I possess a person just to ease drop/follow or to find the monsters lair, how do I keep them from knowing I am there?

Would the possessed spirit just cause the item to identify as magic or something?
Yeah FoP is really nice. Its ability should, by Rules as Written, already take care of many magical means to locate it. True Seeing won't even do a thing to this kind of spy. You can also stay Ethereal underground indefinitely, and I suggest a means of picking up Telepathy + Mindsight to be capable of communicating and detecting creatures.

[unseenmage]

Are talking about the Mineral Warrior Template or the spell?

The Mineralize Warrior spell applies the Mineral Warrior template.

And I edited my previous post to include the stats for the Awakened Shapesand. It is just missing the prices section (which I evidently never finished) detailing the price of a huge creature's volume of Shapesand and the cost to have the requisite spells cast on it. Doesn't look like I ever got around to writing up the Mineralized version of it. My apologies.

Edit: oops, the Awakened Sand already has a Burrow Speed. My bad.

[mabriss lethe]

My low-rent solution uses the Binder class or the 3 feat chain that grants limited pact binding from ToM. Bind Malphas and use his granted Bird's Eye Viewing power to summon a raven/dove and use them as a scout.

[Cerefel]

If you're still looking for a way to keep your FoP from being detected, might I recommend the Mind Mask feat from Secrets of Sarlona? It makes the character detect as non-magic, non-psionic, and neutral.