Most powerful healer gestalt in Pathfinder

[Zhentarim]

What is the best gestalt healer in pathfinder for 25 pointbuy?

[Dayaz]

Depends, is Psionics allowed? If so, a Cleric//Vitalist with the Selective Channel and Unwilling Participant feats, you can generate a sickening amount of healing if it's needed.

[Zhentarim]

Depends, is Psionics allowed? If so, a Cleric//Vitalist with the Selective Channel and Unwilling Participant feats, you can generate a sickening amount of healing if it's needed.

Before this, I was thinking oracle of life//healing and good domain cleric. This is (basically) a test of the starstone game, and the DM basically said that if party members die, that's it, and there are no roll fudges. To be more accurate, this is set in the Oathbound world with Pathfinder classes and rules. Keeping the party alive to see the end of the game is a top priority. I plan to go ranged, as well, so I can dump strength.

[Zhentarim]

As far as backstory goes, I want to make her a middle-aged mother that was whisked away to this far away land and who desperately wants to get back to her young family. She heard only gods could leave the Oathbound center, and thus began training as long and as hard as she could to be the most powerful healer she could be so she could help others escape and get back to their families.

[Dayaz]

Unfortunately, DnD isn't a game that promotes being a true healer, simply because of action economy. Most healing is handled out of combat, with spot healing through tougher fights. The one I mentioned works because Unwilling Participent lets you force enemies into your collective, so when they benefit from your Channel Energy cleric feature, you can siphon all the healing they WOULD have gotten and give it to someone else. It's simply the most efficient way to heal.

The main way to do it in a paizo only game, would actually probably be to be a Cleric//Wizard (or sorceror) and spend combat as the God Wizard, and heal if things start going badly or after combat is over. You would technically also be able to use Wand of Cure (Various) Wounds without a UMD check, so that would be an option.

[Zhentarim]

Unfortunately, DnD isn't a game that promotes being a true healer, simply because of action economy. Most healing is handled out of combat, with spot healing through tougher fights. The one I mentioned works because Unwilling Participent lets you force enemies into your collective, so when they benefit from your Channel Energy cleric feature, you can siphon all the healing they WOULD have gotten and give it to someone else. It's simply the most efficient way to heal.

The main way to do it in a paizo only game, would actually probably be to be a Cleric//Wizard (or sorceror) and spend combat as the God Wizard, and heal if things start going badly or after combat is over. You would technically also be able to use Wand of Cure (Various) Wounds without a UMD check, so that would be an option.

How is Wizard a better other half than oracle?

[Dayaz]

How is Wizard a better other half than oracle?

because if you build with the God Wizard build, you prevent most of the damage from happening on your team.

[TheFamilarRaven]

How is Wizard a better other half than oracle?

He never said it would better at healing, he said it would be more effective than being a character specialized in healing. Because being a wizard allows you to protect more people from damage which is far more effective than healing that damage later. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

From a character's perspective it also makes very little sense to be "the best" healer. Because they can't see hitpoints, and 1d8+1 points of healing for the most part is plenty to heal your everyday commoner. Hardly anyone will notice difference between being healed 8 points or healed by 12, because that commoner only has 6 total hit points. However, it does make sense for a character to specialize in protecting people from harm. Clerics and Oracles can heal well enough without needing to boost their ability to do so, and can do it on the fly without preparing to do so before hand. But they'd rather no one gets hurt in the first place.

If you simply want to know from a theoretical optimization standpoint, there's just too many options with gestalt, and thats not even considering the nebulous term "the best healer". Because what that is greatly varies depending on what you consider the most important thing for a "healer", (The amount of channels? the power of the Cure spells? How many times can they cast Cure spells? etc.)

[CasualViking]

The best healer is the one that has the best contributions when healing isn't required.

[Peat]

Life Oracle//Paladin must be up there. Run the Oradin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?257365-PF-Oradin-Mini-Guide-Or-How-to-be-a-Healbot-minus-the-bot), just as gestalt rather than multiclass. There may be a few better but this lets you do Healing as you fight, gives you plenty of healing spells for when you need to concentrate on that, and makes you pretty tough as well. Not a lot of use if the party healer goes down themselves...

[Recherché]

Seconding Oradin assuming you can't see get access to Psionics and Vitalitist. I'm playing one right now and she both heals the party fairly well and more importantly forces the enemy to deal with her first instead of going after the more vulnerable members of the party. We'll unless they want to deal with being full attacked while she's also healing the party. If you go that direction I'd also recommend the Fey Foundling Feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fey-foundling). For this setup (no resurrection) I'd take Breath of Life (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/breath-of-life)as a spell known for Oracle and grab Hero's Defiance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/hero-s-defiance)with a couple of Pearls of Power for Paladin so that even in the event that someone)(including you) hoes down you can get them back up again without technically resurrecting them.

[Firebug]

You might want to clarify the "if party members die, that's it, and there are no roll fudges". Does the GM mean they won't pull any punches and fudge rolls so the team can "win" or that there will be no outside raise dead/resurrection, or that once you drop to negative con you are finished regardless of what the party can do?

Because Breath of Life is a thing, and you can build a Paladin to raise dead at level 5 for "free" with Ultimate Mercy.

I've posted a time or two about this but, my Paladin 4/ Oracle 1/ Ninja 2/ Paladin+ was using Ultimate Mercy on 20 point buy (granted it was a protege) at level 5 up to twice a day, and 3 at level 7. Mine did not serve Irori, because I did not know of the amazing-ness of Ki Channel for the build. Mine served Sarenrae, and I feel the combination worked well for a "Cult of the Dawnflower Paladin".

This gets even better with Gestalt, as you can stay full caster in Oracle. If you are starting high enough, I would recommend something like:
Paladin 1/Oracle 1: Fey Foundling/Human(Something, retrain at 2 for Extra Lay On Hands); Mystery Life: Channel Revelation
Paladin 2/Oracle 2:
Paladin 3/Oracle 3: Greater Mercy; Revelation: Life Link
Ninja 1/Oracle 4
Paladin 4/Oracle 5: Ultimate Mercy
Ninja 2/Oracle 6: Ninja Trick Combat Trick for Channel Smite, or Enforcer or Power Attack, or the Ninja Trick for Vanish. Maybe not paladin-like to use it for ambush, but to keep the 'healer' alive it works well
Paladin 5/Oracle 7: Ki Channel (requires Irori); Revelation: Energy Body
Paladin 6/Oracle 8
Paladin 7/Oracle 9: Quick Channel
Buy a couple of Meditation Crystals, they allow you to convert a channel into a Lay On Hands or a Ki Point.
Once you get Ki Channel, you effectively have unlimited Channels per day, and by extension, unlimited Raise Dead (until you run out of levels if you are taking a temp negative level instead of paying for the 5k diamond). You have unlimited channels because you use a Ki Point with a Tea Of Transference to turn it into a Channel, a Spell 2 levels lower then the highest you can cast, or a Smite Evil. 40 GP a pop, so buy like 250 for 10k. Consider, using it to recharge 2nd level spells you would spend 4.5k for a single 2nd level wand.

If you picked up a Ring of Revelation, or retrained Extra Lay On Hands at higher levels for Extra Revelation, you can go Spirit Guide Oracle and pick up a minor in something else, like blasting to use all your extra spell slots on.

[Zhentarim]

You might want to clarify the "if party members die, that's it, and there are no roll fudges". Does the GM mean they won't pull any punches and fudge rolls so the team can "win" or that there will be no outside raise dead/resurrection, or that once you drop to negative con you are finished regardless of what the party can do?

Because Breath of Life is a thing, and you can build a Paladin to raise dead at level 5 for "free" with Ultimate Mercy.

I've posted a time or two about this but, my Paladin 4/ Oracle 1/ Ninja 2/ Paladin+ was using Ultimate Mercy on 20 point buy (granted it was a protege) at level 5 up to twice a day, and 3 at level 7. Mine did not serve Irori, because I did not know of the amazing-ness of Ki Channel for the build. Mine served Sarenrae, and I feel the combination worked well for a "Cult of the Dawnflower Paladin".

This gets even better with Gestalt, as you can stay full caster in Oracle. If you are starting high enough, I would recommend something like:
Paladin 1/Oracle 1: Fey Foundling/Human(Something, retrain at 2 for Extra Lay On Hands); Mystery Life: Channel Revelation
Paladin 2/Oracle 2:
Paladin 3/Oracle 3: Greater Mercy; Revelation: Life Link
Ninja 1/Oracle 4
Paladin 4/Oracle 5: Ultimate Mercy
Ninja 2/Oracle 6: Ninja Trick Combat Trick for Channel Smite, or Enforcer or Power Attack, or the Ninja Trick for Vanish. Maybe not paladin-like to use it for ambush, but to keep the 'healer' alive it works well
Paladin 5/Oracle 7: Ki Channel (requires Irori); Revelation: Energy Body
Paladin 6/Oracle 8
Paladin 7/Oracle 9: Quick Channel
Buy a couple of Meditation Crystals, they allow you to convert a channel into a Lay On Hands or a Ki Point.
Once you get Ki Channel, you effectively have unlimited Channels per day, and by extension, unlimited Raise Dead (until you run out of levels if you are taking a temp negative level instead of paying for the 5k diamond). You have unlimited channels because you use a Ki Point with a Tea Of Transference to turn it into a Channel, a Spell 2 levels lower then the highest you can cast, or a Smite Evil. 40 GP a pop, so buy like 250 for 10k. Consider, using it to recharge 2nd level spells you would spend 4.5k for a single 2nd level wand.

If you picked up a Ring of Revelation, or retrained Extra Lay On Hands at higher levels for Extra Revelation, you can go Spirit Guide Oracle and pick up a minor in something else, like blasting to use all your extra spell slots on.


The former