Greenflame blade build help

[j_spencer93]

Ok I know i posted before about this but the player's idea just changed and we are playing in only a few hours. The idea now is to try to mix warlock and paladin focusing on use of greenflame blade. Is this viable? Possible? Going to suck?
It seems you would be able to stack greenflame blade with divine smite, which is what we are going for. He will be an Aasimar from the Volo's guide also.

[Laserlight]

Ok I know i posted before about this but the player's idea just changed and we are playing in only a few hours. The idea now is to try to mix warlock and paladin focusing on use of greenflame blade. Is this viable? Possible? Going to suck?
It seems you would be able to stack greenflame blade with divine smite, which is what we are going for. He will be an Aasimar from the Volo's guide also.

Plaidlock is viable and is one way to give a pally a ranged attack (although of course you can use javelins). The text for Divine Smite says "when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack", therefore it can be added to GFB. Note however GFB uses a Cast A Spell action, not an attack action; Pally abilities that require an Attack action (such as Extra Attack) do not work with GFB. If you think your target doesn't want to move, you might use Extra Attack rather than GFB.

[Addaran]

Probably too late but....

Normally, you'd kinda want to not have extra attack for a GFB build. Especially for something like a paladin where you want to make sure you hit to use smite spells. 2 or 3 (twf) attacks greatly boost the chance to at least hit once.
Eventually, GFB will be competitive compared to two attacks, if there's someone near the enemy for the rider effect. (will take longer if you use a huge weapon ith better damage dice)

Why does he want the warlock levels? Just for GFB? For the two slots that regen with short rest? It might be better to mix paladin with dragon sorc to still get GFB, lots of slots and potentially +cha to fire. Or just use the magic initiate feat so you can have GFB.


With that said, i play a tome warlock with shillelagh and GFB, it's very fun. Would probably want a bit more mobility to ensure i can always GFB with rider. But my character isn't "losing" extra attack, he can't have it anyway.

[CaptainSarathai]

Pally2+, Undying Light Warlock2+, Sorc6+ can do some awful things to people. If you just want max damage, Lock12, Sorc6, Pal2 would about do it.

That's (at 20th) per GFB:
Weap+Stat+Cha (Lock)
+3d8 GFB
+Cha to Fire (Sorc)
+Cha to Fire (Lock)
+Smite (Paladin)
+Cha to Radiant (Lock)
+D8 Bestow Curse (Lock, lvl5 no Concentrate)

Your "Nova" uses the Sorcerer's 'Quicken Spell' to throw GFB again, as a Bonus Action. You've now dealt that damage twice.
Then you concentrate on Haste from the Sorcerer list, and get a free extra action with which to make a regular, single weapon attack for:

Weapon+Stat+Cha
+Smite
+Cha to Radiant
+D8 Curse

Using Duelling Style let's you keep up with a GreatAxe for damage, while carrying a shield, and maxing Dex to go with the Draconic Sorcerers Unarmored 13+Dex or the Warlock's Armor of Shadows Mage Armor 13+Dex. Ac20 is easy.
Or sacrifice a little accuracy and AC for full plate and a Great Sword, and GWF+GWM.

Bestow Curse, uses 5th level Warlock slot
Haste, using 3rd level Sorcerer Slot
This leaves 3 Sorcery Points, 2 5th level slots, and 3 3rd level slots for the Nova. With Str/Dex20, Cha20, using a Rapier and Smiting with highest level slots you can, that's a nova-round damage of:
192.5 for a Duellist Dex build
221 for a GreatSword build

Congratulations on taking down an Adult Bronze Dragon in one round (assuming you hit and roll at least average)
Considering your maximum damage with a Greatsword (assuming Crits, and max rolls) is going to be 551, have fun potentially killing everything short of a Tarrasque.

[Arkhios]

Pally2+, Undying Light Warlock2+, Sorc6+ can do some awful things to people. If you just want max damage, Lock12, Sorc6, Pal2 would about do it.

That's (at 20th) per GFB:
Weap+Stat+Cha (Lock)
+3d8 GFB
+Cha to Fire (Sorc)
+Cha to Fire (Lock)
+Smite (Paladin)
+Cha to Radiant (Lock)
+D8 Bestow Curse (Lock, lvl5 no Concentrate)

Your "Nova" uses the Sorcerer's 'Quicken Spell' to throw GFB again, as a Bonus Action. You've now dealt that damage twice.
Then you concentrate on Haste from the Sorcerer list, and get a free extra action with which to make a regular, single weapon attack for:

Weapon+Stat+Cha
+Smite
+Cha to Radiant
+D8 Curse

Using Duelling Style let's you keep up with a GreatAxe for damage, while carrying a shield, and maxing Dex to go with the Draconic Sorcerers Unarmored 13+Dex or the Warlock's Armor of Shadows Mage Armor 13+Dex. Ac20 is easy.
Or sacrifice a little accuracy and AC for full plate and a Great Sword, and GWF+GWM.

Bestow Curse, uses 5th level Warlock slot
Haste, using 3rd level Sorcerer Slot
This leaves 3 Sorcery Points, 2 5th level slots, and 3 3rd level slots for the Nova. With Str/Dex20, Cha20, using a Rapier and Smiting with highest level slots you can, that's a nova-round damage of:
192.5 for a Duellist Dex build
221 for a GreatSword build

Congratulations on taking down an Adult Bronze Dragon in one round (assuming you hit and roll at least average)
Considering your maximum damage with a Greatsword (assuming Crits, and max rolls) is going to be 551, have fun potentially killing everything short of a Tarrasque.

This might seem minor issue, but undying light warlock's +CHA to radiant only applies to spell damage. Divine Smite is not a spell, though it fuels from spell slots. You'd need to use Divine Favor (a paladin spell) to get a constant radiant damage from spells to get the charisma bonus too.

[j_spencer93]

Actually the game got delayed, a players son is in the hospital. Anyways, Captian that is exactly the kind of build that he wants. Originally his idea was sorcerer/warlock to get cha to greenflame blade twice.
Also I know Undying Light won't apply to smite, but it does apply to greenflame which is what he wanted. This is great thank you guys.
Also, I am not worried about his damage output. He usually play subpar ideas and for once his crazy thought came up with something that can pay of.

[CaptainSarathai]

This might seem minor issue, but undying light warlock's +CHA to radiant only applies to spell damage. Divine Smite is not a spell, though it fuels from spell slots. You'd need to use Divine Favor (a paladin spell) to get a constant radiant damage from spells to get the charisma bonus too.
Thought it was too good to be true. I really think it should count (burns a spell slot) but I was half expecting someone to say that it doesn't kick off.
I'm not even sure that Divine Favor would work, as the spell itself is not doing the damage. Like, GFB is adding the Cha to the 3d8 Fire damage, not the Weapon Die.

I mean, Fighter 17 with Action Surge, 4 Attacks, GWM, GWF, PAM, and adding a D12 Superiority Die to every attack is getting:
16d10+1d4+9d12+135 = 284 damage on average rolls. That is, to my knowledge, the highest damage anyone will do in the game without relying on 'Wizardry-buggery'

The difference is economy. The Fighter only gets Action Surge twice per short rest, and they're expended; if he doesn't need all 4 extra attacks, any leftovers go to waste. He also has to declare that he's burning his Superiority Dice before rolling To Hit, whereas a Paladin can wait until he knows he's hit (or even hold off for a Crit) before burning that spell slot. The Paladin's resources are much more 'granular,' in that he has more control on how they're spent. In practice, the Paladin build gets the most damage.



Also, I am not worried about his damage output. He usually play subpar ideas and for once his crazy thought came up with something that can pay of.
I should warn you, don't write off that damage. Because this build doesn't rely on Extra Attack, it's actually pretty damn good even at lower levels, and can trivialize encounters.

Personally, I strongly recommend the Dex-build, because GWM is less reliable without some way to boost your "To Hit" chance, and pigeonholes you into Variant Human with two 15s in Point Buy. A Dex build has better saves, better Initiative, same AC, and doesn't require a Paladin start for armor. The only problem is the Str13 requirement for MC Paladin.
If you won't hit Level20, you can also go with a TomeLock instead of Blade, letting you use Charisma for all attacks and all damage. You'll have less regular damage in melee, but you can use a Staff Arcane Focus to keep casting during the fight, and you could go Medium Armor Master instead of Dex18, and free up extra ASIs.


When I ran it, the build was as follows:
27pt buy: 12, 15, 14, 8, 8, 14
Half Elf: Str+1, Dex+1, Cha+2
1 - Sorc (Draconic: Ac13+Dex, Con proficiency)
2 - Warlock (UL. GFB+Cha now online)
3 - Warlock
4 - Warlock (Tome:Shillelagh, Ritual Casting)
5 - Paladin (Armor Proficiency)
6 - Warlock (feat: Medium Armor Master. AC20)
7 - Sorc
8 - Sorc (Metamagic: Quicken. 2xGFB now online)
9 - Sorc (+2 Cha)
10 - Sorc (Haste now online)
11 - Sorc (GFB+2Cha now online)
12 - Paladin (Duellist Style. Smite now online)
13 - Lock5 (Bestow Curse 1/day)

Lock5, Sorc6, Pal2 - build fully online*

*You lack a 5th level slot for casting Bestow Curse without Concentration. To access 5th level slots, you need any one of the following:
- Sorc 8
- Sorc 7 + Pally 4
- Pally 6
- Lock 9


As you can see, you have a lot of options. Sorcerer 8 is the fastest, both to get 5th level slots and an ASI.
Going Sorc7/Pally4 takes an extra level, but gets you an ASI and a Paladin Oath.

Ending at Lock8, Sorc8, Pally4 means having a Paladin Oath and getting the maximum additional ASIs (3). You would have 2, 5th level slots per day.
This is probably the strongest build over all. Smite maxes out with 3rd level slots, and you only really need one 5th level slot since Bestow Curse is 1/day.

Alternately, keeping lock at 5 or 6 and going to Paladin 6 or 7, gives a 6th level slot, and does more for your party. You have a better Lay on Hands, and gain Aura of Protection. Going Oath of Ancients means you get Aura of Warding as well. You are, however, giving up 2 ASIs for this.

Lock9 takes the longest, but gives you two regenerating 5th level slots.
Ending at Lock12, Sorc6, Pal2 means giving up 2 ASIs and 6th level slot, but you have three regenerating 5th level slots, and you know a 6th level spell.

[Arkhios]

Thought it was too good to be true. I really think it should count (burns a spell slot) but I was half expecting someone to say that it doesn't kick off.
I'm not even sure that Divine Favor would work, as the spell itself is not doing the damage. Like, GFB is adding the Cha to the 3d8 Fire damage, not the Weapon Die.

I would say it does work, because the +1d4 radiant damage is from the spell, not from the weapon.

[j_spencer93]

Did i miss adding that part? He is a dex build. Not sure how i forgot to add that. Anyways, thanks alot, Think he will enjoy shining for once. Seriously, we had one game in 3.5 where he was an archer and lost his arms to a cadaver golem (or something like that), he always has the worst luck in this game, so him being in the lead for once will prob make him a little happier and more into the game.