Rate my revenge plan

[Neowulf]

so, I had a bit of fun with my group in our last session

I jumped onto a ship, chasing a suspect we were all trying to get questions out of. our cleric is an awoken turtle, so I put him in a sack I had and jumped on board

on the ship I met 3 bowmen & 2 swordsmen, all of whom took me down to 2 hp. before the combat even began the cleric turtle abandoned me

we're currently lvl 5 and I'm playing a raptoran, so I've got a fly-speed
my current plan is this:
grab the turtle
start flying up with these rounds

withdraw action (2x speed at half-speed going up 60 degrees with a -5 ft to start going up). I'm 15 feet away & 30 feet up
run action (4x speed at half-speed going up 60 degrees). I'm another 40 feet away & 65 feet up
final run action (this is how many rounds my CON modifier will let me fly) for another 40 feet away & 65 feet up
I'm 160 feet up, I drop the turtle as a standard action & glide down as my move action


WotC has specified that gravity is more or less the same in the D&D world as it is in real life, so 9.8 m/s^2 roughly translates to 30 ft/s^2, meaning that a 160 ft fall is roughly 3 seconds (half a round) so only enough time for a single action probably

this turtle is a cleric of the god, Pelor, so he'd have access to spells from his domains. only spells I can see helping with this are one of the Summon Monsters or Air Walk (lvl 3 spell from the travel domain), but casting any spells would most likely require a concentration check for most likely an extraordinarily violent motion (falling like this would most likely be equivalent to an earthquake)

we're at lvl 5, so 8 is about all the ranks in concentration he can take, so at least a 60% chance of spell failure from the DC 20, and even if he casts it then he'd need another round to regain the move action

only savior here is to do a DC15 jump/tumble check to avoid 10 ft of damage & convert the next 10 into nonlethal, but neither is a class skill of clerics, so probably going to fail that one

and with 16d6 of damage, this turtle's going to die the way nature entended. getting dropped by an eagle

and thus concludes my revenge trip on the jackass who left me to die, any notes I should be aware of, other than the **** move to counter another **** move?

[SethoMarkus]

"Hey, that's not cool that you abandoned my character. Don't do it again."

[Neowulf]

"Hey, that's not cool that you abandoned my character. Don't do it again."
maybe if it was against like at least 10 people with just the 2 of us (STUPID odds), but it was against 3 bowmen & 2 swordsmen, our entire party was there, he abandoned me JUST before they took me down to 2 HP, and I'm more than a little pissed at the cowardly bastard

[NerdHut]

If you think it's fine to take revenge on another player, that's absolutely not cool. You'd get banned from my table, no matter which of us was DMing. If your character wants revenge, and the other player is okay with roleplaying it out, then sure. But that's not what you've described for us.

[Neowulf]

If you think it's fine to take revenge on another player, that's absolutely not cool. You'd get banned from my table, no matter which of us was DMing. If your character wants revenge, and the other player is okay with roleplaying it out, then sure. But that's not what you've described for us.

I didn't make the first move against him, but he made the first one against me
in game, there's nothing on my character's conscience if & when I go through with this
out of character, the DMs cool with it & I'll probably get **** from the other players, but I'll try to make sure that they can't know IN character

[ExLibrisMortis]

Creatures in D&D fall 150' on the first round of falling, so just fly up to 150'.

Your plan forgets that the cleric can cast while grappled by you, by making a Concentration check. They can escape the grapple, as well.


Oh, and don't be a vindictive player. Throw them from 50' instead, just to make your point.

[Neowulf]

Creatures in D&D fall 150' on the first round of falling, so just fly up to 150'.
thanks for that. I'll make sure to note that


Your plan forgets that the cleric can cast while grappled by you, by making a Concentration check. They can escape the grapple, as well.
it won't be grappled. I'll just try to get this going when he doesn't expect it


Oh, and don't be a vindictive player. Throw them from 50' instead, just to make your point.
n'ah, this seems way funnier to go through with. besides, if he lives through this then he'll come for me eventually

[The Glyphstone]

thanks for that. I'll make sure to note that


it won't be grappled. I'll just try to get this going when he doesn't expect it


n'ah, this seems way funnier to go through with. besides, if he lives through this then he'll come for me eventually

Step 1 in your plan is 'grab the turtle'. That would be a grapple check.

If you really want direct reciprocation, figure out how much damage you took - your max health down to 2 - and figure out, on average, how many d6 of damage that would be. Drop the cleric from that many 10'ft increments up, so he takes, on average, the exact amount of damage you did.

[Extra Anchovies]

There's a definite case to be made for "don't do this", but we don't really know the normal play style for OP's table. Back when I was first picking up 3.5 with a few other friends, we had a blast running around executing fellow PCs and both willfully and accidentally ignoring various rules.


I jumped onto a ship, chasing a suspect we were all trying to get questions out of. our cleric is an awoken turtle, so I put him in a sack I had and jumped on board

on the ship I met 3 bowmen & 2 swordsmen, all of whom took me down to 2 hp. before the combat even began the cleric turtle abandoned me

What even was the cleric's plan? Congratulations, you're a turtle on the open ocean. Great job.

Also, doesn't your party have some reason to stick together beyond "murderhobos travel in packs"?


Creatures in D&D fall 150' on the first round of falling, so just fly up to 150'.

I thought that was just the rules for the Plane of Air's subjective gravity, which isn't necessarily applicable to the Material Plane. Have you got a source for those numbers applying to any normal-gravity falling?


Oh, and don't be a vindictive player. Throw them from 50' instead, just to make your point.

Or even lower: if you throw the turtle just right, you might be able to skip them across the water for a bit.


it won't be grappled. I'll just try to get this going when he doesn't expect it

Unless your plan is to bull rush the turtle 150 feet straight up, you're going to have to grapple. In fact, to meet your minimum forward speed you'd also need to be taking the -20 penalty to grapple without also being treated as grappled yourself.


n'ah, this seems way funnier to go through with. besides, if he lives through this then he'll come for me eventually

Is your whole group in on the vindictive murderhobo'ing? If so, sparing the cleric when you could've killed them might get you a useful ally to help you off the next fool who tries to double-cross you.

As for an actual revenge plan rating, I give it a [feather fall]/10; too easily countered.

[Deophaun]

First: repeating the "don't do this" line.

Second: Revenge is a dish best served cold. Wait for the next time you need to carry your cleric turtle "buddy." Then, when you're 100' in the air, that's when you say "Hey, remember that time on the ship when you abandoned me?" And then you drop him. No messy grapple checks.

[gooddragon1]

John Clark describes revenge:



John Clark: "Reciprocity." That's a clever name for it. Revenge is a very, very, very dangerous motivation.
Robert Ritter: Are you able to handle this operation or not? What I'm looking for here is a simple yes or no.
John Clark: What you're looking for is a political mess.
Robert Ritter: Yes or no?
John Clark: Is that what they want? Because that's what this is.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I thought that was just the rules for the Plane of Air's subjective gravity, which isn't necessarily applicable to the Material Plane. Have you got a source for those numbers applying to any normal-gravity falling?
DMG page 20: "If a flying creature fails to maintain its minimum forward speed, it must land at the end of its movement. If it is too high above the ground to land, it falls straight down, descending 150 feet in the first round of falling."

Technically only for flying creatures, but it's the closest we have. "Falls straight down" is a little suggestive, given that typical flyers can always choose to glide - the phrasing indicates that that ability is not in play, so it could apply equally well to non-flyers.

[Khedrac]

I didn't make the first move against him, but he made the first one against me
Err...

I jumped onto a ship, chasing a suspect we were all trying to get questions out of. our cleric is an awoken turtle, so I put him in a sack I had and jumped on board
Did you ask the cleric before putting him in a sack and jumping on board the enemy ship? He may well not have realised you needed him to stay there, or even though you just put him way too far in harms way - if he had stayed the attacks that put you at 2hp might have put him at negative something...
Also, you say he abandoned you - how? - did he jump off the ship?

Further, you survived - so presumably he did heal you, just not immediately?

Incidentally, how's your grapple check? Just moving with the turtle requires a grapple check and that means if you do a withdraw action you are leaving the cleric behind.

[Neowulf]

First: repeating the "don't do this" line.

Second: Revenge is a dish best served cold. Wait for the next time you need to carry your cleric turtle "buddy." Then, when you're 100' in the air, that's when you say "Hey, remember that time on the ship when you abandoned me?" And then you drop him. No messy grapple checks.

that's pretty much the plan. I'm going to try & convince him to travel with me & then I'll drop him

[Neowulf]

Err...

Did you ask the cleric before putting him in a sack and jumping on board the enemy ship? He may well not have realised you needed him to stay there, or even though you just put him way too far in harms way - if he had stayed the attacks that put you at 2hp might have put him at negative something...
because I'm sure when a big beefy barbarian jumps on a ship, the first thing that the pirates shooting at him will do is attack the turtle


Also, you say he abandoned you - how? - did he jump off the ship?
bingo


Further, you survived - so presumably he did heal you, just not immediately?
nope, I had to basically leave town. immediately after because a butcher was going to kill me (long story)


Incidentally, how's your grapple check? Just moving with the turtle requires a grapple check and that means if you do a withdraw action you are leaving the cleric behind.
like someone mentioned on here b4, I won't need to grapple. I put this thing in my sack & can fly as our main mode of transport

but even still, I've got a +8 to his basically 0 on grappling, so no worries

[Khedrac]

because I'm sure when a big beefy barbarian jumps on a ship, the first thing that the pirates shooting at him will do is attack the turtle
If they know he is the healer and are intelligent enough to fight tactically? - Yes they are.

I repeat - did you ask before taking him aboard?


nope, I had to basically leave town. immediately after because a butcher was going to kill me (long story)
From on a ship you left town? Was the ship in a harbor? You certainly survived the fight (i.e. being reduced to 2hp) so had you not then left the cleric might have healed you...


like someone mentioned on here b4, I won't need to grapple. I put this thing in my sack & can fly as our main mode of transport

but even still, I've got a +8 to his basically 0 on grappling, so no worries
Only if he is willing to be put in a sack, and:

Move

You can move half your speed (bringing all others engaged in the grapple with you) by winning an opposed grapple check. This requires a standard action, and you must beat all the other individual check results to move the grapple.

Note: You get a +4 bonus on your grapple check to move a pinned opponent, but only if no one else is involved in the grapple.
You are not going up very far or fast.
Equally if you pull him out of the sack to drop him you will need to win a grapple check to drop him (so just drop the sack).

[Kelb_Panthera]

As far as revenge goes; pointless and vindictive. Yeah, that's a revenge plot alright. Btw, did you say that this was a different character than the one he abandoned? That's not even revenge from the IC perspective. To the turtle it could be karma. To the other player; that's you, not your character, being a petty douche.

As far as the plan itself goes; it's "drop him." That's not a plan, that's barely an intention.

If you're going to be vengeful and petty, at least make it elaborate and spectacular. Lure him in, make him feel safe... at first. Insinuate yourself into his affairs, "help him" with everything. Extend your influence through every aspect of his character's career. Once you've got him convinced you're just aces, -then- you pull the rug out from under him, you unravel all of his associations, quietly, you arrange for him to lose everything and then, when he comes to his old, reliable, stalwart friend you explain to him, in excrutiating detail how it was -you- that took him appart, piece by piece, until there was nothing left and smite him with whatever method you please (ideally one he can do virtually nothing to resist). Don't expect to be invited back next week.

Or you could just drop him, I guess.

[Mordaedil]

My advice is grow up and don't do it. Resolve your anger issues. Stop being a child.

Revenge playing isn't going to go anywhere good. You are going to be mad because your plan doesn't go off as you want it to or he the player gets mad and you start yelling or he starts yelling and at the end of the day somebody is going to walk away from the table really mad.

Don't be that player that makes it ****ing worse. You already felt let down. Don't get even, let go.

And if you can't do it, stop playing.

[Vaz]

Be interested to note what kind of turtle. If it's leatherback (around 2m in size, so a medium creature), you ain't moving ****. It's an average 500Kg beast, while even the Green Sea Turtle (often seen as the "typical" turtle) is around 350Kg on average. Good luck being able to fly with that sort of encumbrance. Even at say 24 Strength (18 Str, Raging Barbarian, +2 item), you're looking at a max of 173lb carry capacity. Unless said character weighs (including everything they're carrying) under 78kg (hint, it's not, that's the weight of a typical unburdened adult western human male).

A raptoran can only carry up to light encumbrance and fly.

So, congratulations. You go down and begin to hug the turtle. Now what?

[Dr.Zero]

my current plan is this:
grab the turtle
start flying up with these rounds

withdraw action (2x speed at half-speed going up 60 degrees with a -5 ft to start going up). I'm 15 feet away & 30 feet up
run action (4x speed at half-speed going up 60 degrees). I'm another 40 feet away & 65 feet up
final run action (this is how many rounds my CON modifier will let me fly) for another 40 feet away & 65 feet up
I'm 160 feet up, I drop the turtle as a standard action & glide down as my move action


[...]

and with 16d6 of damage, this turtle's going to die the way nature entended. getting dropped by an eagle

and thus concludes my revenge trip on the jackass who left me to die, any notes I should be aware of, other than the **** move to counter another **** move?


that's pretty much the plan. I'm going to try & convince him to travel with me & then I'll drop him


I didn't make the first move against him, but he made the first one against me
in game, there's nothing on my character's conscience if & when I go through with this
out of character, the DMs cool with it & I'll probably get **** from the other players, but I'll try to make sure that they can't know IN character


Group: "Hey, it was nice of you to bring our beloved cleric turtle with you, even if there was some grudge between the two of you. By the way, where is he?"

You: "He died."

G: "What?

Y: "Yeah, turned out the sack had... uhm... a hole and he fell!"

G: "He was X feet in diameter!"

Y: "It was a very big hole."

G: "But how did he die? He was very strong and resilient, how a simply fall..."

Y: "We were 150 feet high up in the sky."

G: "Why?"

Y: "Hmmm... reasons..."

G: "So let's us get this straight: you offered to bring Turtle with you, even if you had a grudge against him. Then for some reasons you flied up in the sky high enough so that if he fell he had to die, and exactly when you where high enough a big hole opened in the sack and Turtle fell. Does this sum it up?"

Y: "Yeah, pretty much."

G: "Uhmmm... By the way, do you remember that bluff isn't a class skill for a barbarian, don't you?"

Y: "I'm well aware."

G: "Ok, just checking."

Five minutes later.

Leader of the group: "... and as soon as he fall asleep we coup de grace the murderer and then we find a way to rise back Turtle. Ok?"

Rest of the group: "Sure!"


And this is if your plan succeed. I agree that this is going to be hilarious. :smallsmile:

[Vizzerdrix]

I do hope you tell us how it goes.

[Echch]

Honestly, the best way to take revenge on a cleric involves a sermon at his template and laxatives.

Don't be evil if you can't afford it. And as anything below Tier 2, let me tell you: You can't afford it.

[Calthropstu]

Group: "Hey, it was nice of you to bring our beloved cleric turtle with you, even if there was some grudge between the two of you. By the way, where is he?"

You: "He died."

G: "What?

Y: "Yeah, turned out the sack had... uhm... a hole and he fell!"

G: "He was X feet in diameter!"

Y: "It was a very big hole."

G: "But how did he die? He was very strong and resilient, how a simply fall..."

Y: "We were 150 feet high up in the sky."

G: "Why?"

Y: "Hmmm... reasons..."

G: "So let's us get this straight: you offered to bring Turtle with you, even if you had a grudge against him. Then for some reasons you flied up in the sky high enough so that if he fell he had to die, and exactly when you where high enough a big hole opened in the sack and Turtle fell. Does this sum it up?"

Y: "Yeah, pretty much."

G: "Uhmmm... By the way, do you remember that bluff isn't a class skill for a barbarian, don't you?"

Y: "I'm well aware."

G: "Ok, just checking."

Five minutes later.

Leader of the group: "... and as soon as he fall asleep we coup de grace the murderer and then we find a way to rise back Turtle. Ok?"

Rest of the group: "Sure!"


And this is if your plan succeed. I agree that this is going to be hilarious. :smallsmile:

Sounds about right.

Though, I might do something different depending on my alignment.

Plane shifting him, without his equipment, to say... the plane of fire. If I were good, I'd probably add an endure elements or protection from fire spell on him first. Give him a chance of surviving.

[Segev]

What I'm not seeing in the scenario is an indication that the cleric was deliberately setting the barbarian up. There's a big difference between "oh crap we're in over our heads here; run!" and pre-meditated treachery designed to end in somebody's death.

Now, if he really believes the turtle cleric deliberately abandoned him for the express purpose of getting him killed, then that's another thing entirely. At the least, he should be accusing him of it and leaving the party so as not to give him a chance to do it again. But vengeance-killing like this is definitely Evil. Especially when there are plenty of far more innocent explanations than "he tried to have me killed."

(Seriously, if he tried to have you killed, what makes you think he'd trust himself near you when you prove not to be dead?)

[Manyasone]

Pelor's clergy heal the sick, bless crops, help the needy, and destroy evil and the undead. They are caring and nurturing, with backbones of steel.

Strange behaviour from the turtle cleric...

In any case, don't take revenge. Ask the player what this was all about and smack him with his own dogma...

[Echch]

(Seriously, if he tried to have you killed, what makes you think he'd trust himself near you when you prove not to be dead?)

Probably because the cleric believes the barbarian to be... well, a barbarian. Not a smart or wise dude who smells betrayal a mile away, but a dumb brute that doesn't know left from right.

[Deophaun]

[I]Group: "Hey, it was nice of you to bring our beloved cleric turtle with you, even if there was some grudge between the two of you. By the way, where is he?"
"Don't know. How's the soup?"

[Dr.Zero]

"Don't know. How's the soup?"

Lol! This is really Evil with capital E. :smallbiggrin:


Sounds about right.

Though, I might do something different depending on my alignment.

Plane shifting him, without his equipment, to say... the plane of fire. If I were good, I'd probably add an endure elements or protection from fire spell on him first. Give him a chance of surviving.

Yes, the important point is to keep his equipment and magic items, which will be used to pay to raise Turtle, of course. :smallbiggrin:

By the way, I really like the plan, exactly because between the fact that he must kill a cleric (not so easy at all for a barbarian, if he doesn't catch the cleric in the right moment) and that then, in the case it works, he must lie to the other members of the party (bonus points if the barbarian dumped charisma and has exactly 0 points in bluff) this seems doomed to fail way faster than the turtle is doomed to fall. :smallbiggrin:
So no wonder the GM is cool with it, this will create a nice and entertaining diversion with 0 work from him and which will set down early a potential future problem.

Anyway, said that if the other members of the group want to catch the barbarian they easily can, if the OP wants to try it anyway, I think the sooner the better. The more levels the group gets, the more spells are around to screw (even more) this plan.

[Segev]

Probably because the cleric believes the barbarian to be... well, a barbarian. Not a smart or wise dude who smells betrayal a mile away, but a dumb brute that doesn't know left from right.

Again, we see no evidence of this in the OP's story. And another poster's point about Pelor's clerics is good, too.

This sounds like there's a misunderstanding somewhere, and it extends to OOC.

[Fizban]

The DMG falling speed from the flight section is for flying creatures that are trying to fly but failing. There's a couple other sources for proper freefall speeds, the main one is an article on the wizard's site but I don't have a link. There's also more detailed flying rules in the Dragonlance main setting book which includes proper freefall in addition to stalling fall.

[Neowulf]

I do hope you tell us how it goes.

you can bet I'll update this the instant I do this


Probably because the cleric believes the barbarian to be... well, a barbarian. Not a smart or wise dude who smells betrayal a mile away, but a dumb brute that doesn't know left from right.

In game: I'm a Barbarian with an INT of 13
Out of game: I scheme like George Castanza


Again, we see no evidence of this in the OP's story. And another poster's point about Pelor's clerics is good, too.

This sounds like there's a misunderstanding somewhere, and it extends to OOC.

well, the advancement of my character (so far) is this:
I jokingly threatened to sell the turtle for a Ring of Sustenance
I accidentally ate & digested a fairy
I won a drinking contest
I got my ass kicked by a communist
and now I got OWNED in a 5-on-1 battle

as a player, I'm a little pissed, but I can get over it. as a character, I'm gonna kill that cowardly turtle, as well as a few other people

[Velaryon]

"Don't know. How's the soup?"

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/48/4841d3ee06c1de9ce962125951323d76fd963755faa92486ee 336bb820425111.jpg

[Segev]

well, the advancement of my character (so far) is this:
I jokingly threatened to sell the turtle for a Ring of Sustenance
I accidentally ate & digested a fairy
I won a drinking contest
I got my ass kicked by a communist
and now I got OWNED in a 5-on-1 battle

as a player, I'm a little pissed, but I can get over it. as a character, I'm gonna kill that cowardly turtle, as well as a few other people

I... don't see the connections between these events and others doing things to you, with the exception of how you've explained the 5-on-1 battle was not winnable due to the cleric bailing.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Out of game: I scheme like George Castanza


Soooo...... Poorly and in a way that's likely to backfire in your face?

[Neowulf]

Soooo...... Poorly and in a way that's likely to backfire in your face?

pretty much, but at least I have fun

[TheBrassDuke]

pretty much, but at least I have fun

But does everybody else? That's more important than your individual fun.

[Neowulf]

But does everybody else? That's more important than your individual fun.

I hope they do, or at least laugh, but I'm mostly out for my own personal enjoyment. I'm not an entertainer, so don't really care much about making things fun for other people

that being said, I won't actively try and make it awful for them either

[Vaz]

What kind of Turtle was he before he was awakened? What's your Strength?

[Neowulf]

What kind of Turtle was he before he was awakened? What's your Strength?

normal turtle. small enough for me to pick him up & put in a sack without going to medium load

my STR is about 17

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'm not an entertainer, so don't really care much about making things fun for other people

This is not a good attitude for any kind of social game, nevermind one that demands the kind of investment this one does. :smallconfused:

Presumably at least -some- of these people are your friends, surely on some level you care about them having a good time at least a little?

[Neowulf]

This is not a good attitude for any kind of social game, nevermind one that demands the kind of investment this one does. :smallconfused:

Presumably at least -some- of these people are your friends, surely on some level you care about them having a good time at least a little?

really, we're just a group of people who met online for online games. first time I've met them, much less played with them

and I do want them to have a good time. problem is, I'm not giving up my good time to give them theirs

[The Glyphstone]

really, we're just a group of people who met online for online games. first time I've met them, much less played with them

and I do want them to have a good time. problem is, I'm not giving up my good time to give them theirs

Somehow I strongly suspect you will not be playing with them long, if your attitude is 'sucks to be them if they don't enjoy my shenanigans'.

[Vaz]

normal turtle. small enough for me to pick him up & put in a sack without going to medium load

my STR is about 17

You can't carry him. You can carry no more than 40Kg/86lbs and fly. A 'normal turtle' doesn't exist in D&D. Going by the typical Green Turtle you imagine as a Turtle, that is a 160kg weight. You can't carry 1/4 of that.

[Neowulf]

Somehow I strongly suspect you will not be playing with them long, if your attitude is 'sucks to be them if they don't enjoy my shenanigans'.
yeah, and abandoning teammates in-combat is such a great thing to do to earn friends

I checked with the DM & he doesn't mind as long as I justify it in character, which I have to him. if all the other players can't stand it that badly for someone taking retribution towards a coward, so be it


You can't carry him. You can carry no more than 40Kg/86lbs and fly. A 'normal turtle' doesn't exist in D&D. Going by the typical Green Turtle you imagine as a Turtle, that is a 160kg weight. You can't carry 1/4 of that.
yeah, and going by the fact that the DM let me fly around with him in my pack before, I'm guessing he's not enough to put me in medium load, but I'll check next time. worst case scenario, I just use my rage to make the 3-round flight

[Vaz]

Might want to try checking with the DM if he knows you can carry up to a light only, and that even if you rage to Str 23 you can only manage 200lbs. You're still short.

FYI. Stop being a **** to your group. If it isn't obvious enough by an entire thread telling you not to.

[Segev]

Just chiming in to say that I was picturing a closer-to-frog-sized turtle from what was said. Where did we get to 150 lbs. of giant sea-turtle, rather than "small enough to be a dog's chew-toy crossing the road" turtle? Not saying I've any more evidence for my take, other than the fact that it'd be trivial to carry a tiny turtle but not a significantly larger one, but I'm curious where the size is being derived from.

[Vizzerdrix]

You can't carry him. You can carry no more than 40Kg/86lbs and fly. A 'normal turtle' doesn't exist in D&D. Going by the typical Green Turtle you imagine as a Turtle, that is a 160kg weight. You can't carry 1/4 of that.

An 86 lbs turtle is huge (not Huge huge, but huge very big)

[Neowulf]

Just chiming in to say that I was picturing a closer-to-frog-sized turtle from what was said. Where did we get to 150 lbs. of giant sea-turtle, rather than "small enough to be a dog's chew-toy crossing the road" turtle? Not saying I've any more evidence for my take, other than the fact that it'd be trivial to carry a tiny turtle but not a significantly larger one, but I'm curious where the size is being derived from.

considering it can fit in a common sack from the PHB, that's my thinking too

although, if this does work, I have a great way to make the best of this situation

[Fizban]

I don't know where this "Green Turtle" is coming from, but Stormwrack has the only 1st party non-giant turtle I know of. Snapping Turtles are Small, have 2HD (that's 4 with Awaken), can grow to 3' in length and weigh up to 200lbs. Says it's based on the particularly large and dangerous alligator snapper.

[Deophaun]

I don't know where this "Green Turtle" is coming from, but Stormwrack has the only 1st party non-giant turtle I know of.
Are you saying there are no ordinary deer, squirrels, rabbits, trout, or flies in D&D because there are no MM entries for any of them? Would you expect such creatures that a) serve as no real threat to a party and b) have little use beyond occasionally substituting for a ring of sustenance to be printed out? Would a product that listed each and every harmless woodland creature and gave stat blocks for them be a good seller, something you would expect WotC to put out if they wanted to allow those animals in the game?

What stops a druid from finding a box turtle and awakening it? Why is a DM physically unable to allow such (as it's what one must believe to insist that if there's a turtle in the game, it must be the quasi-magical beast snapping turtle from SW (200lbs? WTF?))

[SethoMarkus]

Are you saying there are no ordinary deer, squirrels, rabbits, trout, or flies in D&D because there are no MM entries for any of them? Would you expect such creatures that a) serve as no real threat to a party and b) have little use beyond occasionally substituting for a ring of sustenance to be printed out? Would a product that listed each and every harmless woodland creature and gave stat blocks for them be a good seller, something you would expect WotC to put out if they wanted to allow those animals in the game?

What stops a druid from finding a box turtle and awakening it? Why is a DM physically unable to allow such (as it's what one must believe to insist that if there's a turtle in the game, it must be the snapping turtle from SW)

Because that would be within the realm of homebrew. A completely reasonable homebrew, mind you, but not something the forum can easily comment on unless we know the specifics. You should know by now that the forum prefers RAW for our discussions.

And I will repeat my earlier sentiment. Talk to the player out of game, ask them why their cleric abandoned your barbarian, and ask them not to do it again.

Getting revenge in the game, what will it add to the game? Not what will YOU get out of it, but how will it affect the game moving forward? Will it resolve the conflict of being abandoned? Will it spur a party-wide PvP melee? Will it add enjoyment? Will it add strife?

Presumably your goal is to continue play with this group, right? Then you need to take these things into consideration. If you go through with your revenge plan, what is to say the other players won't kick you out? And if you don't care whether you get kicked or not, why not just walk away now?

Because from the perspective of the turtle cleric, I can see your barbarian already being in a bad light. From what I can tell, you scooped up the turtle, brought them to a dangerous situation cut off from the rest of the party (against their will from what I can tell), the dangerous situation became more threatening than anticipated do the cleric retreated. The cleric probably thought you would follow, and if you didn't that is your own choice. The other players don't "owe" you anything. They have no compulsion to go along with your antics any more than you have to go along with theirs.

So tell me, what makes the cleric running away any worse than you bringing it to the fight in the first place?

[Deophaun]

Because that would be within the realm of homebrew. A completely reasonable homebrew, mind you, but not something the forum can easily comment on unless we know the specifics. You should know by now that the forum prefers RAW for our discussions.
This isn't a question of "I want to play a turtle, help me optimize."

This is "Another character is playing an awakened turtle of the ordinary variety. Here is what happened and what I want to do about it."

Talking about RAW in the case of something already known and allowed is nonsense.

[SethoMarkus]

This isn't a question of "I want to play a turtle, help me optimize."

This is "Another character is playing an awakened turtle of the ordinary variety. Here is what happened and what I want to do about it."

Talking about RAW in the case of something already known and allowed is nonsense.

I'm sorry, I think I explained that wrong.

I don't mean that "We should only stick to RAW here". I meant that, knowing these forums, is it really surprising that our first reaction was to explain the turtle cleric through RAW in the absence of additional information?

So yes, ordinary animals DO exist. But these forums tend to think in terms of "what is in print?" first. Any regular should probably be familiar with that reaction.

[Deophaun]

I don't mean that "We should only stick to RAW here". I meant that, knowing these forums, is it really surprising that our first reaction was to explain the turtle cleric through RAW in the absence of additional information?
Additional information was provided.

Arguments that it must be the dire-ish snapping turtle from SW continued.

We are way past "first reaction."

[Vaz]

Source?

Clarify please.

http://animals.nationalgeographic.com.au/animals/reptiles/green-turtle/

If we're talking Tortoise, feel free to change statement. Until the assumption of Turtle changes and is clarified, I'm basing this dickish behaviour on that of what is RAW legal.

If the player is happy to ignore the rules, he can feel free. But at the same time, he asked opinion over action.

Basically nigh universal "don't do it". "I'm a do it." "don't do it". "i'm a do it".

[Shackel]

To step around the immediate judging on a situation without full context, the plan sounds alright if that's your usual method of flying. If you're playing online, you might be able to "whisper" or private message the player of the turtle. Take him up the 150ft, then private message him saying you intend to drop the character and ask him if he thinks that's alright.

If he does, bombs away!

If he doesn't, make it more an intimidation thing. "If you ever abandon me like that again," yadda yadda. Something that shows your character is rightfully furious about this but doesn't kill him. Or just drop him from a lower distance if the problem is the character being killed.

[Fizban]

Are you saying there are no ordinary deer, squirrels, rabbits, trout, or flies in D&D because there are no MM entries for any of them?
No, I'm saying that Vaz pulled a random turtle out of nowhere, actually I'm implying it by way of pointing out the only non-giant turtle that has stats.

the quasi-magical beast snapping turtle from SW (200lbs? WTF?))
If you can't believe there are 200lb turtles in the world, I think you have more pressing things to do than play dnd, maybe read some wikipedia or something.

This isn't a question of "I want to play a turtle, help me optimize."
If people posting in your thread are more interested in a turtle than your "revenge," it might be a sign they've already said everything there is to say about your "revenge."

[Deophaun]

If you can't believe there are 200lb turtles in the world, I think you have more pressing things to do than play dnd, maybe read some wikipedia or something."
200lb snapping turtle.

The largest on record doesn't break 90.

Try taking your own advice sometime.

[Rakoa]

Your plan sounds hilarious to me, and I say go ahead with it update is ASAP. I understand where the naysayers are coming from, but they're overstepping their bounds here. You're not asking if you should, and they seem quite persistent in their arguing. One or two warnings, sure, whatever, but at this point it's obvious you understand your actions. Now let them have it!

[Vaz]

So we're settled then. There are 200lb Snapping Turtles (RAW), and 700-2000lb Sea Turtles (which I'm not going to lie, is my first image in my mind of Turtles).

Anything else is DM's purview/houserule.

[ComaVision]

So we're settled then. There are 200lb Snapping Turtles (RAW), and 700-2000lb Sea Turtles (which I'm not going to lie, is my first image in my mind of Turtles).

Anything else is DM's purview/houserule.

http://i.imgur.com/JptBciS.gif

[Fizban]

200lb snapping turtle.

The largest on record doesn't break 90.

Try taking your own advice sometime.

Though not verified, a 183 kg (403 lb) alligator snapping turtle was found in Kansas in 1937,[8] but the largest verifiable one is debatable. One weighed at the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago was a 16-year resident giant alligator snapper weighing 113 kg (249 lb)
Try again.

[Vizzerdrix]

This is going to bug me. I know Ive seen turtle stats someplace.

I was working on a wizard golem thrower build and turtles where one of the options Id found for projectiles. But now, Im wondering if it wasnt armadillos Id found. I would bet my left ear that it was turtles though, and not the snapper or sea turtle. Just a regular little painted turtle. Maybe it was in a 3.0, dragon, or 2nd party source?

[ComaVision]

This is going to bug me. I know Ive seen turtle stats someplace.

Pathfinder has little turtle stats. Personally, I just check pfsrd when I want animal stats.

[Vizzerdrix]

That wasnt it. I dont use the pfsrd.

[ComaVision]

That wasnt it. I dont use the pfsrd.

Dragon #266 has Turtle Hengeyokai, which presumably should have the stats for a "normal" turtle.