[Spheres of Power] The Mentalist's Handbook Playtest

[Afgncaap5]

Hey, everyone! You’re likely already aware of Drop Dead Studio’s (http://www.dropdeadstudios.com/) Spheres of Power (http://paizo.com/products/btpy96pr?Spheres-of-Power) alternate magic system for Pathfinder, and the fact that there’s going to be a book that expands upon the options presented for each of the system’s twenty spheres. I was fortunate enough to write for the upcoming book on the Mind Sphere, tentatively titled The Mentalist’s Handbook. As with the other handbooks, we’re of the opinion that many minds make light work and many eyes spot more errors than just a few, so in the interest of building better books feel free to help yourself to an early sneak peak at the material presented herein! For a type of magic that has traditionally vacillated wildly between overpowered and underpowered, we’re excited to hear if any options effortlessly smash apart encounters that your GM spent dozens of hours preparing, or if any options are so amazingly inefficient as to be effectively unplayable. And hey, if our spelling, grammar, or punctuation isn’t up to par, we can use that feedback as well. Worst case scenario: you might not find anything to comment on, but you can still have fun with it around your game table!


The Mentalist’s Handbook Playtest! (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Kp4acH7zTk4e3DfPdYDfTk1jJClly3yp27Jfrf3FRWw/edit?usp=sharing)


Feel free to drop any comments here, on the document itself, or in both places. Mistakes, weird rules interactions, typos, questions about situational applications of rules, and any other relevant questions or issues are welcomed. We might not be able to respond to it all, but every comment will be read and appreciated. Thanks!

[Troacctid]

I was kind of confused why there was a suggestion at the end of every sentence to add or delete spaces or some such, until I realized that you had two spaces after every period, and then I was like, "Oh. Yeah, definitely fix that." A single space after a period is the standard, unless you're using APA style for some weird reason.

I'm not sure I really get brainwaves. What is a brainwave, exactly?

[A.J.Gibson]

I was kind of confused why there was a suggestion at the end of every sentence to add or delete spaces or some such, until I realized that you had two spaces after every period, and then I was like, "Oh. Yeah, definitely fix that." A single space after a period is the standard, unless you're using APA style for some weird reason.

I'm not sure I really get brainwaves. What is a brainwave, exactly?

The idea behind a brainwave is similar to a charm that has been turned into an ongoing effect emanating from the target. Whereas a charm affects the mind of the target, a brainwave affects the minds of people observing or interacting with the target.

[khadgar567]

Like the virtiosso and i hope we get bard looking traditions

[Afgncaap5]

The idea behind a brainwave is similar to a charm that has been turned into an ongoing effect emanating from the target. Whereas a charm affects the mind of the target, a brainwave affects the minds of people observing or interacting with the target.

Yeah, that's effectively accurate. They're little mental traps that can be set to activate when people enter their area or otherwise interact with things. If the Sleep charm was reworked as a Brainwave, it'd create an area of effect that put people to sleep whenever they entered its location. The Sympathy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/sympathy) spell, and its counterpart Antipathy, are classic (if high-powered) examples of this kind of thing, though the effect could also replicate simple glamour-style effects on creatures. (It's not in there yet, but it was strongly suggested at one point that a "Most Interesting Man In The World" brainwave be added, for instance; whenever you see or interact with someone, you're just fascinated and interested.)

As for the double-spaces: that's a bad habit of mine that I meant to replace en-mass before the document opened, but I'm afraid National Novel Writing Month had dimmed my senses.

[EldritchWeaver]

I haven't checked closely, but looking at the intro chapter I had not the impression that seduction was part of an archetype. Is this correct? If yes, will one be added?

[Afgncaap5]

I haven't checked closely, but looking at the intro chapter I had not the impression that seduction was part of an archetype. Is this correct? If yes, will one be added?

No, there isn't really a seduction archetype planned (not sure what in the list of archetypes might have suggested that, though the new eliciter emotion Camaraderie does sort of let someone alter the attitude of NPCs towards other people.)

Having said that, if you got that impression from the short story snippet at the start of the chapter, there's no seduction archetype based on that though I *did* want to imply the existence of a kind of campaign-specific ritual or incantation of "false love" that the vampire wanted. That kind of thing is, while admittedly a classic staple of fantasy literature, fairy tales, and old morality plays, it's also not the kind of thing I really felt comfortable giving to players overtly. (I'm kind of imagining a bard or cleric archetype now, though, who goes around strengthening the bonds of friendship or love between people. Maybe I can rush that...)

[EldritchWeaver]

No, there isn't really a seduction archetype planned (not sure what in the list of archetypes might have suggested that, though the new eliciter emotion Camaraderie does sort of let someone alter the attitude of NPCs towards other people.)

Having said that, if you got that impression from the short story snippet at the start of the chapter, there's no seduction archetype based on that though I *did* want to imply the existence of a kind of campaign-specific ritual or incantation of "false love" that the vampire wanted. That kind of thing is, while admittedly a classic staple of fantasy literature, fairy tales, and old morality plays, it's also not the kind of thing I really felt comfortable giving to players overtly. (I'm kind of imagining a bard or cleric archetype now, though, who goes around strengthening the bonds of friendship or love between people. Maybe I can rush that...)

You misunderstood me. I haven't seen anything suggesting seduction options. That's why I'm asking. Or more precisely, I'm looking for such an option for another player and I expected something like that for the Mind sphere.

[Troacctid]

You misunderstood me. I haven't seen anything suggesting seduction options. That's why I'm asking. Or more precisely, I'm looking for such an option for another player and I expected something like that for the Mind sphere.
Um, can we not? I hope I don't have to explain why you and your player should be ashamed of yourselves for requesting this. :smallmad:

[EldritchWeaver]

Um, can we not? I hope I don't have to explain why you and your player should be ashamed of yourselves for requesting this. :smallmad:

Mind control is the entire basis of Mind, Potion of Everlasting Love is in SoP as example. While I can understand your misgivings (and I don't think that player went as far as you seem to assume from your pre-edit text), you are already too late. The basic functionality is in there (Command Charm). There are monsters whose entire purpose is to seduce innocents (vampires and succubi in particular). I don't plan to use this more myself, but I can see why one would want to include this (and if it is merely an NPC, which needs to be stopped, and you want to use rules instead of handwaving this).

Edit: BTW, had I not access to your pre-edit text, I wouldn't have known what your problem is, for the simple reason that I didn't think of that possibility ingame. My reason for asking is to find a way to convert a homebrewed bloodline (one which is not balanced anyway) to something reasonable and something the player wouldn't terribly object to. Why the player is infatuated with this idea, but seemingly hasn't gone that far in my presence, I don't know (but I'm new there, so I might have missed something like this). But since you brought this up, I'll ask anyway.

Edit2: Considering what you accuse me and that player and effectively the GM as well, it would have been better to confirm first the extent of truth before posting anything insulting based on this assumption. Actually, confirming assumptions is always a good idea.

[Afgncaap5]

You misunderstood me. I haven't seen anything suggesting seduction options.

Ah, sorry. I read your comment that you "had not the impression that" it would be there, and for some reason I thought that there was a typo where "not" should have been "got." My apologies.

On the note of the potion of love everlasting, it's still worth noting that apart from a drinker's attitude becoming "helpful" (which itself doesn't remove free will from NPCs) there isn't another mechanical effect. It does say that it can generate either a romantic love, or a platonic adoration, but neither of those are really game terms and, as such, are defined by roleplayers of characters or GMs controlling NPCs instead of by the potion brewer. Were I to add more effects along these lines, I'd probably still keep that element of player agency (and really, that element of NPC agency, NPCs often being the unsung heroes of these worlds we play in.)

In any event, regardless of whatever purpose for which the player on who's behalf you're making such inquiries might want to use such options (grammar police help me!), adding more options on the basis that we already have such options isn't something I'm comfortable with since it seems like the existing options are apparently not sufficient. Even if I was, I can only realistically include material that Meralda herself would be comfortable sharing with readers, and a quick look at the intro tells me that she's not a big fan of the abilities of vampires anyway. Sorry!

[EldritchWeaver]

In any event, regardless of whatever purpose for which the player on who's behalf you're making such inquiries might want to use such options (grammar police help me!), adding more options on the basis that we already have such options isn't something I'm comfortable with since it seems like the existing options are apparently not sufficient. Even if I was, I can only realistically include material that Meralda herself would be comfortable sharing with readers, and a quick look at the intro tells me that she's not a big fan of the abilities of vampires anyway. Sorry!

Actually, the other player hasn't seen the existing material yet. My mission is to collect what is available and then present it. Considering his bloodline is about a demon who tempts married people into unfaithfulness, anything seduction related is interesting there. I've confirmed that the agency hasn't been touched in way Troacctid implied and even if the player attempted this the GM would shut it down. So something like a bard archetype aiming for something non-mechanical effect like the Potion of Evelasting Love in combination of the eliciter emotion class feature would be good enough for my purposes.

[khadgar567]

Actually, the other player hasn't seen the existing material yet. My mission is to collect what is available and then present it. Considering his bloodline is about a demon who tempts married people into unfaithfulness, anything seduction related is interesting there. I've confirmed that the agency hasn't been touched in way Troacctid implied and even if the player attempted this the GM would shut it down. So something like a bard archetype aiming for something non-mechanical effect like the Potion of Evelasting Love in combination of the eliciter emotion class feature would be good enough for my purposes.
By the wat talk for your self mate i will use and allow my players to use seduction based powers as long as they rp it properly

[Mithril Leaf]

Now the Mental Focus Drawback is clearly analogous to Psionic Focus. Would it be unreasonable to have it count as your Psionic Focus if you are using Psionic books? It would add a wider range of support instead of having a weird one off ability. Plus if you then get feats that let your expend it, your casting gets crippled by it's lack.

[A.J.Gibson]

Now the Mental Focus Drawback is clearly analogous to Psionic Focus. Would it be unreasonable to have it count as your Psionic Focus if you are using Psionic books? It would add a wider range of support instead of having a weird one off ability. Plus if you then get feats that let your expend it, your casting gets crippled by it's lack.

I actually wrote this for War, and then it got moved to Mind when that comparison became clear. It was mostly inspired by focus casting. Focus casting has the problem that it's hard to trigger the drawback, but also hard to recover from it as well, so the GM feels bad about gimping the spellcaster for the rest of the day. This can knock out a spellcaster more easily, but only for a short time, and the fact it can be triggered without the GM having to explain how the enemy knows how to do it (or even meaning to on purpose) makes it more likely to happen. If my understanding of psionic focus is correct, it is 'expended' by some abilities, so you might want to make it a bit easier to regain if you go this route since the character is going to be losing it more often.

[Afgncaap5]

Yeah, I'd say it's technically to the player's benefit to keep the two things separate from a mechanical standpoint. Having said that, I would totally make them the same for any character I played that used both because, well, in my mind they're basically the same thing and represent the same thing (and because a little extra challenge is fun for me.) So... I'd say talk it over with your DM and figure out what works best.

[digiman619]

Yeah, I'd say it's technically to the player's benefit to keep the two things separate from a mechanical standpoint. Having said that, I would totally make them the same for any character I played that used both because, well, in my mind they're basically the same thing and represent the same thing (and because a little extra challenge is fun for me.) So... I'd say talk it over with your DM and figure out what works best.

Yeah, I'd say that this needs a sidebar in the final product talking about the difference and a "Ask your DM for specifics" line.

[Mithril Leaf]

Maybe it would be neat to give a choice between the two if Psionic material is on the table? You could maintain it as it's own separate pool if you prefer, but alternatively you could make it Psionic Focus, enabling you to qualify for Psionic feats as if you had a Manifester Level. Downside is more support means more support against it.

[Mehangel]

Just wanted to say that playtesting of the Mentalist Handbook is complete, but is available in pdf form.

[Keante]

I'm confused about the Fear's Herald and Fear's Master features of the Fright Wight archetype. Are they constant effects? Or do they require uses of Hypnotism like the Eliciter class features that they replace? What magic skill check is being referred to under Fear's Master?

[Mehangel]

I'm confused about the Fear's Herald and Fear's Master features of the Fright Wight archetype. Are they constant effects? Or do they require uses of Hypnotism like the Eliciter class features that they replace? What magic skill check is being referred to under Fear's Master?

Fear's Herald is a constant effect.
Fear's Master I believe was never updated to reflect the changes made to Fear's Herald, and as such does nothing. It is unfortunate that this was never caught.

I have notified Adam Meyers, hopefully the archetype will be updated to include an updated and appropriate class feature in its place.