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Llama513
2016-11-07, 09:37 PM
Here is the Link: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/H171530xg

Advice is appreciated

GalacticAxekick
2016-11-07, 11:57 PM
Conceptually, I think a samurai is more of a Fighter than a Monk. Fighters are defined by their mastery of weapons, armour and conventional combat, regardless of what those weapons, armours or cultural conventions are, and so while we tend to imagine a knight in shining armour, a samurai in lamellae is just as fit.

Themes aside, let's consider balance and gameplay!

Samurai Training seems mostly fine.

Proficiency with longswords is strong early on (1d8 damage instead of 1d4), but this becomes irrellevent once your Monk weapon dice reach and exceed 1d8. Ditto longbows. They become exactly the same as your other Monk weapons, and so this feature only buffs the samurai early on.
The armour proficiences might not do what you think they do. A conventional Monk can actuall gain higher AC (10 +5 Dex, +5 Wis = 20) than your Samurai (10 +2 Dex, +5 Half Plate = 7) in addition to moving faster. What you've done is give the Samurai competitive (but lower) AC without costing too many ability points, allowing her to invest in abilities other than Dex or Wis. Dex is going to get investment anyway, because that's the attack stat and Samurai don't need Strength (Athletics) to Grapple or Shove. So really this just means the samurai no longer relies on Wisdom, as other Monks do, and that they can invest in other stat. Remember this
The proficiency in Intimidate should be the player's choice, not baked into the subclass imo. I understand that samurai wore oni masks and terrified their enemies, but all armies used fear tactics at one point or another, and not every Fighter is skilled in intimidate. Also, this doesn't fit amongst the weapon/armour features
While these buffs and abilities are all well and good, they don't provide any meaningful decisions for the samurai. They only make the samurai better at what they, as a Monk, would already do: rush into melee, trade blows, loose the occasional projectile as they dart. Active abilities are often more interesting than passive abilities.

Iajitsu seems fine

Heightened Awareness is where things get clumsy.
This is a feature that encourages the Samurai to invest in Perception, and Wisdom in general. But the only thing the armour proficiency accomplished earlier was make the Samurai nonreliant on Wisdom and grant them the freedom to invest in other abilities. This undoes that, meaning the armour proficiency is a net downgrade.

If Heightened Awareness was clumsy, Decisive Strike is a clown.
Why include the critical hit if it's going to be a Constitution-save-or-die?
Why make it a save-or-die at all? Besides being horribly overpowered in the face of hard-to-kill enemies, it's unfun to have a single party member close an encounter with a single thoughtless action.
Why 7d10 additional on a failed save? That's massive damage for a single attack. That's more than a Lv20 Rogue's Sneak Attack bonus, which they have the work for, while your Samurai is getting this four times every rest when they fail.

Llama513
2016-11-08, 12:13 PM
Conceptually, I think a samurai is more of a Fighter than a Monk. Fighters are defined by their mastery of weapons, armour and conventional combat, regardless of what those weapons, armours or cultural conventions are, and so while we tend to imagine a knight in shining armour, a samurai in lamellae is just as fit.

Themes aside, let's consider balance and gameplay!

Samurai Training seems mostly fine.

Proficiency with longswords is strong early on (1d8 damage instead of 1d4), but this becomes irrellevent once your Monk weapon dice reach and exceed 1d8. Ditto longbows. They become exactly the same as your other Monk weapons, and so this feature only buffs the samurai early on.
The armour proficiences might not do what you think they do. A conventional Monk can actuall gain higher AC (10 +5 Dex, +5 Wis = 20) than your Samurai (10 +2 Dex, +5 Half Plate = 7) in addition to moving faster. What you've done is give the Samurai competitive (but lower) AC without costing too many ability points, allowing her to invest in abilities other than Dex or Wis. Dex is going to get investment anyway, because that's the attack stat and Samurai don't need Strength (Athletics) to Grapple or Shove. So really this just means the samurai no longer relies on Wisdom, as other Monks do, and that they can invest in other stat. Remember this
The proficiency in Intimidate should be the player's choice, not baked into the subclass imo. I understand that samurai wore oni masks and terrified their enemies, but all armies used fear tactics at one point or another, and not every Fighter is skilled in intimidate. Also, this doesn't fit amongst the weapon/armour features
While these buffs and abilities are all well and good, they don't provide any meaningful decisions for the samurai. They only make the samurai better at what they, as a Monk, would already do: rush into melee, trade blows, loose the occasional projectile as they dart. Active abilities are often more interesting than passive abilities.

Iajitsu seems fine

Heightened Awareness is where things get clumsy.
This is a feature that encourages the Samurai to invest in Perception, and Wisdom in general. But the only thing the armour proficiency accomplished earlier was make the Samurai nonreliant on Wisdom and grant them the freedom to invest in other abilities. This undoes that, meaning the armour proficiency is a net downgrade.

If Heightened Awareness was clumsy, Decisive Strike is a clown.
Why include the critical hit if it's going to be a Constitution-save-or-die?
Why make it a save-or-die at all? Besides being horribly overpowered in the face of hard-to-kill enemies, it's unfun to have a single party member close an encounter with a single thoughtless action.
Why 7d10 additional on a failed save? That's massive damage for a single attack. That's more than a Lv20 Rogue's Sneak Attack bonus, which they have the work for, while your Samurai is getting this four times every rest when they fail.
I appreciate your points, in response I have a few ideas,
For starter making them a monk I was going for capturing the more mystical samurai, the ones who were noted for feats of superhuman physical ability, and the Bushido code, something very akin to a monks training and focus

As for Samurai Training I have a few thoughts of how to help bring this back to wear the monk needs Wisdom, first giving them a reaction that would cost 1 Ki point to add their Wisdom Modifier to their AC until the start of their next turn
The reason I gave intimidation is that other classes had done things of that nature, and monk does not have the ability to get proficiency in Intimidation from the base class, I would like to add something akin to the presence of the Samurai in 3.5, allowing you to make an intimidation check on a creature with in 30ft that can see you at the beginning of combat, making them afraid of you for a number of rounds equal to your Wis mod, or having it be a Wis save against your Ki DC that you can affect a number of creatures equal to the amount of Ki you spend

With these changes I hope it would help bring Heightened Awareness into use, or I could turn it into a blind sense

As for Decisive Strike I was going for something like Quivering Palm but with a blade, I will work on its wording to make it clearer as to what it is saying, I can also make it only one use a day

Llama513
2016-11-08, 12:26 PM
If absolutely necessary to allow the class to blossom, I am willing to make it a fighter, my only worry being that in order to capture the feel I am going for I would need to, take some features from monk, mainly martial artist, the increased movement speed, and deflect missiles

After thinking about it a little bit, the need for marital artist is not needed, however the movement speed and deflect missiles is needed

GalacticAxekick
2016-11-08, 05:35 PM
I personally think most skilled warriors should be Fighters, but if your vision includes many aspects of the Monk class then by all means, making your Samurai a Monk subclass is the way to go! After all, you want a mystical samurai: the doer of superhuman feats: someone of uncanny focus and resolve.


As for Samurai Training I have a few thoughts of how to help bring this back to wear the monk needs Wisdom, first giving them a reaction that would cost 1 Ki point to add their Wisdom Modifier to their AC until the start of their next turnI can dig it!


The reason I gave intimidation is that other classes had done things of that nature, and monk does not have the ability to get proficiency in Intimidation from the base class, I would like to add something akin to the presence of the Samurai in 3.5, allowing you to make an intimidation check on a creature with in 30ft that can see you at the beginning of combat, making them afraid of you for a number of rounds equal to your Wis mod, or having it be a Wis save against your Ki DC that you can affect a number of creatures equal to the amount of Ki you spendI see! I might make this a separate feature from Samurai Training since it's a bit thematically different, but I love "Wis save against Ki DC to avoid fear, targeting a number of creatures equal to the Ki spent." Intimidate proficiency alongside that sounds reasonable, affecting interactions in and out of combat.


As for Decisive Strike I was going for something like Quivering Palm but with a blade, I will work on its wording to make it clearer as to what it is saying, I can also make it only one use a dayLooking into it, I hadn't realized the Quivering Palm is that powerful. That's kinda ridiculous. But if WotC allow it, I can't tell you not to. Run with it!

Grod_The_Giant
2016-11-08, 05:41 PM
Proficiency with longswords is strong early on (1d8 damage instead of 1d4), but this becomes irrellevent once your Monk weapon dice reach and exceed 1d8. Ditto longbows. They become exactly the same as your other Monk weapons, and so this feature only buffs the samurai early on.
Point of order: you can swing a shortsword for 1d6 or two-hand a spear for 1d8 from level 1; upgrading to the longsword is only about a 1-point bonus. Pretty much irrelevant balance-wise. Ditto Longbows, which are only a marginal advantage over the shortbow you could already use.

As for the rest...

Attacking with a longsword using your martial arts damage die is fine; it's more flavor than anything else, unless you have a magic weapon.
You've granted armor proficiency, but wearing it still turns off Martial Arts, including those neat longsword abilities you just granted. Assuming you fix that it's a fine option, though an awkward one if you start from level 1. You still kind of need Wisdom for save DCs and kind of need Dex for AC, so the pressures aren't too much changed.
I don't think I'd do the blanket +5 for Heightened Awareness-- if nothing else because of the overlap with Alert. Instead, how about granting Expertise in Perception?
Decisive Strike is...honestly, decently in line with Quivering Palm, I think.


Overall, it feels a little hollow. It's much, much weaker offensively than Open Hand, doesn't offer a fraction of the utility of Shadow, and doesn't even touch the new options opened up by Four Elements. It could use punched up, I think.

Llama513
2016-11-08, 05:54 PM
I updated it http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/H171530xg

I have a couple of ideas for the warrior's presence, one is keeping it as the update made it, the other is making the number of people you can affect equal to either your Wisdom Modifier, or Half your monk Level Round Down, and having the duration of the fear affect being equivalent to the amount of Ki you spend

Thank you for your advice

Llama513
2016-12-17, 03:24 PM
With the advent of Kensai, this class variant is no longer really needed, however I am open to any suggestions, to finish it up, or ideas to improve the class