Am I the only 1 that thinks the kobolds pc got shafted in volo's guide

[Sir cryosin]

I don't like how the kobolds are the only pc race that gets a negative to a stat (-2 to str). Then Thay are Givin sunlight sensitivity. there cower and grovel ability is kind of cool but doesn't make up for anything. I'm afb but I don't think they even get any skills unlike almost every other race in the book hat get 2. What do ya'll think and any homebrew to fix kobolds.

[Gastronomie]

If anything, ask your DM if you can ignore the STR -2. That's pretty much it.

But no, in all honesty they are not weak.

All - ALL - D&D characters have both a "strong point" and a "weakness". That's why you need a party to be effective in the first place. The whole point of the game is that everyone sucks at something while being brilliant at something else, and when four to six people gather to put their brilliant stuff together, brilliant stuff happen.

No matter how much you suck at the stuff you suck, that has no difference on the effectiveness of your character, because whether you "suck" or "really suck" at it, you're not gonna use that option either way, and thus it's irrelevant to your character's abilities.

The kobold is really good at what it does. And it also sucks really hard at what it can't. But just because a kobold character sucks even harder at using STR weapons than an elf, doesn't matter, because elves will never use STR weapons either. Having a 6 in STR wouldn't make a character with 8 in STR any weaker.

Kobolds are good. I don't see the need for any tweaking.

[Arcangel4774]

Orcs got negative to int and don't have much for them to make up for it

[MinotaurWarrior]

Pack tactics is huge, and STR is a relatively unimportant stat. Kobolds aren't going to make good barbarians, but they're amazing rogues and can even do well as most other melee classes. Fighters, Paladins, et cetera can use rapiers.

[Zene]

I love the fact that they're giving some races negative modifiers ... and I'm most looking forward to playing a kobold.

It was kind of silly that using point buy and/or standard array you couldn't dump a stat below 8. Even small-sized races had 8 str minimum. Those are some strong gnomes!

So it was silly (and still is for many races) from a worldbuilding perspective, and from an rp perspective. From a min-max perspective, the fact that you could only dump stats to 8 meant bonuses couldn't be too good either.

Pack tactics is SO good, and I intend to use it well. Sunlight sensitivity and -2 to a stat are necessary to allow a benefit that good. And if you don't make a str-reliant build, that -2 str will barely matter. Personally I plan to dump str all the way to 6 on my kobold archer.

[dejarnjc]

Pack tactics makes kobolds one of the strongest Paladin / rogue / fighter (particularly champion IMO) choices so I think the -2 STR is appropriate. Having advantage the majority on the majority of your attacks is a huge deal.

[Beleriphon]

I don't like how the kobolds are the only pc race that gets a negative to a stat (-2 to str). Then Thay are Givin sunlight sensitivity. there cower and grovel ability is kind of cool but doesn't make up for anything. I'm afb but I don't think they even get any skills unlike almost every other race in the book hat get 2. What do ya'll think and any homebrew to fix kobolds.

Kobolds are anything but shafted. They never have disadvantage because of Pack Tactics. Provided they get that going they can never have disadvantage, whether from Sunlight Sensitivity or from any other condition in the game.

[Maxilian]

You will be able to ignore most disadvantage given by "Sunlight Sensitivity" thanks to "Pack Tactics", so its not that relevant (the main concern may be that in some moments, it will be harder for you to get advantage -But it will be harder for you to have disadvantage on an attack roll-)

[Joe the Rat]

If they weren't shafted, they'd make lousy miners.

-2 Str makes them punier than goblins and halflings. They're supposed to be punier than goblins and halflings. They are as viable as STR-barbarians as Orcs are as wizards.
By point buy you can start with enough STR to multiclass in/out of a strength class, but you will be a lousy greataxe wielder. The big issue is that your carrying capacity is going to suck - but it's still multiple times your body weight.

Pack tactics says never be alone, and things will go your way.

But really, the important thing to remember is that all the penalites are there to offset the fact that you are a kobold. That's a lot of awesome to manage.

[Douche]

I think you guys are getting too hung up on Kobolds here. Then again, the OP did specifically ask for homebrew to fix the Kobold.

I don't have the book so idk what y'all are talking about aside from the info in the comments, but I do think that having negative stat modifiers & stuff like that does help with roleplaying a lot more. The gnome example was a good one. I think that choosing a race should be more of a choice of strengths AND weaknesses, rather than just strengths. The roleplaying capacity of certain abilities is also awesome.

For instance, undead in WoW could breath underwater (technically) since the undead don't require air to live. A lot of players complained about it, saying that it's a useless racial ability (there's like one instance in the entire game where you might risk running out of air - Coilfang Reservoir)... But I liked the flavor of it. What's the alternative? That undead can drown? That makes no sense!

Anyway, I think it's good to think of races as what they represent, how they would make sense in the universe, rather than a set of stat bonuses.

[MaxWilson]

I don't like how the kobolds are the only pc race that gets a negative to a stat (-2 to str). Then Thay are Givin sunlight sensitivity. there cower and grovel ability is kind of cool but doesn't make up for anything. I'm afb but I don't think they even get any skills unlike almost every other race in the book hat get 2. What do ya'll think and any homebrew to fix kobolds.

It's odd. On the one hand, if you mention the Mounted Combatant feat, or the ranged advantage you can gain with Spell Sniper or Sharpshooter, everyone on GITP* will tell you that most adventures take place underground or inside or in thick forests, where mounts aren't useful, so don't even bother with that feat.

On the other hand, if you mention Sunlight Sensitivity, everyone on GITP will tell you that most adventures take place in open air and sunlight, which makes anyone with sunlight sensitivity useless because they will always have disadvantage.

On the gripping hand, kobolds have a built-in way to cancel disadvantage via Pack Tactics, and you can always rely on something other than direct attacks when you are in sunlight. And/or just don't go in the sunlight. D&D is a game about choices, making them, and the consequences thereof. Being a kobold gives you different kinds of choices to make.

* I exaggerate. Not really everyone.

======================================


Kobolds are anything but shafted. They never have disadvantage because of Pack Tactics. Provided they get that going they can never have disadvantage, whether from Sunlight Sensitivity or from any other condition in the game.

BTW, a kobold archer who is avoiding Sunlight Sensitivity via Pack Tactics might as well lie prone to impose disadvantage on enemy counterfire. Just make sure you stand up if any enemies are close enough to hit you with their next move.

It's kind of like a built-in Blur spell.

[Sir cryosin]

Pack tactics are cool. ( swoosh, bang) as an fireball hits the party. Thanks Mr. Kobold. Cower, grovel and beg is just a glorified aid action that you can only do so many times a day. Well at least I can wear a cool pair of shades thanks to the evil sun hurting my eyes. Well I did get a medal in the strong man contest even if it for participation.

[mgshamster]

Well, I guess if you feel something is bad and choose to ignore any counter arguments or evidence, then nothing will really convince you otherwise.

You go through enough characters; might as well give it a try yourself and see how it plays out. At worse, you'll be making a new PC in a few weeks.

[Sir cryosin]

Well, I guess if you feel something is bad and choose to ignore any counter arguments or evidence, then nothing will really convince you otherwise.

You go through enough characters; might as well give it a try yourself and see how it plays out. At worse, you'll be making a new PC in a few weeks.

I'm sorry I was looking forward to playing a kobold but I feel to gimped if I were to play one. I see kobolds and goblin as just about the same but the Goblin pc race is far better then kobold.

[mgshamster]

I'm sorry I was looking forward to playing a kobold but I feel to gimped if I were to play one. I see kobolds and goblin as just about the same but the Goblin pc race is far better then kobold.

Well, I guess you proved my point.

[MaxWilson]

Pack tactics are cool. ( swoosh, bang) as an fireball hits the party. Thanks Mr. Kobold. Cower, grovel and beg is just a glorified aid action that you can only do so many times a day. Well at least I can wear a cool pair of shades thanks to the evil sun hurting my eyes. Well I did get a medal in the strong man contest even if it for participation.

Hypothetical 5th level party:

One tank/utility caster (human Heavy Armor Master/Warcaster Life Cleric 1/Enchanter 4 in plate armor + shield w/ Booming Blade, Fire Bolt, and Absorb Elements)
One tank/scout/summoner/healer (goblin Moon Druid)
One healer/striker (half-elven Warlock 2/Bard 3)
One archer (kobold Sharpshooter Eldritch Knight 5)

In no way is the kobold's tactics making the party more vulnerable to Fireballs. In fact, the party is perfectly capable of fighting in a formation such that a Fireball never hits more than one PC at a time, while still taking full advantage of Pack Tactics. E.g. the Enchanter casts Mage Armor on the Moon Druid, the Moon Druid wildshapes into a Giant Hyena (AC 15 w/ Mage Armor), or a Giant Toad if he wants more control, and starts tanking. The Enchanter launches Fire Bolts, the bardlock shoots Agonizing Repelling Eldritch Blasts (w/ Hex), and the kobold does obscene DPR with Sharpshooter at advantage. None of them have to be within 50' of each other or the Moon Druid, so Fireball is irrelevant.

[Ruslan]

No one who gives any damn about his/her character's Strength score would play a Kobold anyway. The -2 STR is mostly cosmetic.

[Herobizkit]

Negative modifiers. One step closer to 3x. Not impressed.

[MaxWilson]

Negative modifiers. One step closer to 3x. Not impressed.

But also! a step closer to AD&D, which is exciting. Now if we just had real multiclassing and level-limits...

[Sir cryosin]

Ok I understand how good pack tactics can be. I'll admit the fireball jab was wrong. The -2 to str an be circumvented. Sunlight sensitivity is something i'v never delt with so well see when I play one. The cower, grovel and beg ability a little underpower just because it as to recharge I'll like it to be a once per encounter. My friend Hamster I'm not the stubborn type. I do listen to people and try o understand there points. Yes I do seem to come off as a kid sometimes .

[RulesJD]

Short answer: Yes


Long answer: Yes, until you realize that a Kobold Moon Druid is now monstrously powerful by being able to avoid Sunlight Sensitivity while still maintaining Pack Tactics*


*DM discretion is advised.

[MaxWilson]

Ok I understand how good pack tactics can be. I'll admit the fireball jab was wrong. The -2 to str an be circumvented. Sunlight sensitivity is something i'v never delt with so well see when I play one. The cower, grovel and beg ability a little underpower just because it as to recharge I'll like it to be a once per encounter. My friend Hamster I'm not the stubborn type. I do listen to people and try o understand there points. Yes I do seem to come off as a kid sometimes .

You, sir, win respect from me. Good for you.

I agree about cower/grovel/beg. I don't have Volo's yet but it doesn't sound exciting. It's a little better than the Aid action in that it grants advantage to all attacks (e.g. every attack in your fighter buddy's Action Surge), but it's still only one round of advantage, and you could have gotten that advantage in other ways (e.g. knocking someone prone). And the fluff I've heard about it turns me off--makes it sound like everyone gets advantage just because they are so super-protective of the cutesy kobold PC. Yech if so.

[mgshamster]

You, sir, win respect from me. Good for you.

I wholeheartedly agree. Anyone who can recognize and admit their own misgivings in addition to being willing to listen to others deserves respect.

[Sigreid]

I'm actually with you. It's not having a penalty, I can work around that. It's being one of only 2 races that has a penalty. I don't see a good reason a kobold would be weaker than a gnome, for example.

I also think people are over rating pack tactics just a bit. Advantage when an ally is within 5' of your target is nice, don't get me wrong. And it could be great on a party of kobolds, but one kobold having it isn't going to win or lose most fights.

[MaxWilson]

I also think people are over rating pack tactics just a bit. Advantage when an ally is within 5' of your target is nice, don't get me wrong. And it could be great on a party of kobolds, but one kobold having it isn't going to win or lose most fights.

Why not... a whole party full of Kobold Sharpshooter Fighters?!? With Defensive Duelist for whichever kobold gets stuck with melee duty. (He can spend his turns Dodging.)

[Sigreid]

Why not... a whole party full of Kobold Sharpshooter Fighters?!? With Defensive Duelist for whichever kobold gets stuck with melee duty. (He can spend his turns Dodging.)

Yes, that could be pretty good. So can a whole party using gorilla tactics on a bunch of ranged goblins with nimble escape (which I think is a much more powerful ability if used properly), or a party with a wolf barbarian, etc. It's good, it's not an I win button.

[Sir cryosin]

So last night I forgot my character sheet. my DM let me roll up a new character. I decided to try out the kobold I'm playing lv3 just lved to 5th lv at end of he night. He's a shadow monk I play him like rocket racoon that lies and make up stories. The group was talking and we are giving kobold a adility like the lizards folks ability to craft weapons. But kobolds can craft traps then as as bonus action set up a trap. Then we are playing around with getting rid of sunlight sensitivity. But I'm having a blast with my shadow monk kobold name Glenn but he don't always response to it.

[Maxilian]

So last night I forgot my character sheet. my DM let me roll up a new character. I decided to try out the kobold I'm playing lv3 just lved to 5th lv at end of he night. He's a shadow monk I play him like rocket racoon that lies and make up stories. The group was talking and we are giving kobold a adility like the lizards folks ability to craft weapons. But kobolds can craft traps then as as bonus action set up a trap. Then we are playing around with getting rid of sunlight sensitivity. But I'm having a blast with my shadow monk kobold name Glenn but he don't always response to it.

Its quite nice that you enjoy it, but if you plan on getting rid of sunlight sensitivity, then your DM shall get rid of Pack Tactics (the only reasons they have Pact Tactics without it being much is thanks to the Sunlight Sensitivity)

[Maxilian]

Something interesting, a Kobold with a Familiar (mainly if it have Flyby) would do great cause it will have an assure way to activate "Pack Tactics" by itself without having to worry if there's an ally nearby their enemy (And also that let them get Advantage while also giving another teammenber advantage with their familiar "Help action")

Note: This is also a way to take advantage of Find Familiar mid combat without having to use an action (or bonus action) with your it.

[MaxWilson]

Yes, that could be pretty good. So can a whole party using gorilla tactics on a bunch of ranged goblins with nimble escape (which I think is a much more powerful ability if used properly), or a party with a wolf barbarian, etc. It's good, it's not an I win button.

Yeah, to my powergamer's eye, goblins are clearly the most powerful new race. Competitive with or sometimes even better than humans and half-elves. Being able to get bonus action Disengage/Hide without devoting two levels to Rogue is incredibly significant, especially for classes like wizards and moon druids who have easy ways to generate heavy obscurement and no pressing need for their bonus action.

[Sir cryosin]

Something interesting, a Kobold with a Familiar (mainly if it have Flyby) would do great cause it will have an assure way to activate "Pack Tactics" by itself without having to worry if there's an ally nearby their enemy (And also that let them get Advantage while also giving another teammenber advantage with their familiar "Help action")

Note: This is also a way to take advantage of Find Familiar mid combat without having to use an action (or bonus action) with your it.

I don't see why your so gun ho about pack tactics. A single rogue lv get you it and more.

[mgshamster]

I don't see why your so gun ho about pack tactics. A single rogue lv get you it and more.

How? Sneak Attack may activate when a creature is threatening an enemy within five feet, but that doesn't grant you advantage.

[Maxilian]

I don't see why your so gun ho about pack tactics. A single rogue lv get you it and more.

How? you mean using your bonus action to actually hide (And get advantage on your first attack), well... i think that's lvl 2 and that requires you to use your Bonus action and that also only give you advantage on your first attack only (while pack tactic doesn't), in the end... you can get more out of Pack Tactics than what you lose from Sunlight Sensitivity

Note: I'm not saying that PT is the last cocacola of the desert, but its quite good and it deals with the SS problem

Note2: Also if you are going to Homebrew SS out of the Kobold, then the same should be done with PT to maintain some resemblance of "balance"

Note3: I'm just telling you why the Kobolds are not "Under powered" as you seen to believe

[Sir cryosin]

I don't play rogues, I was wrong sorry. We haven't gotten rid of sunlight sensitivity but it hasn't come up yet either. We're keeping things as is and see how it plays. What are ya'll thought on the trap ability.

fashion trap: during a short or a long rest. You many use any supplies or objects you have or around you. To make a trap. You can use a bonus action to set up one of the traps you made during a shortrest.

[Maxilian]

I don't play rogues, I was wrong sorry. We haven't gotten rid of sunlight sensitivity but it hasn't come up yet either. We're keeping things as is and see how it plays. What are ya'll thought on the trap ability.

fashion trap: during a short or a long rest. You many use any supplies or objects you have or around you. To make a trap. You can use a bonus action to set up one of the traps you made during a shortrest.

It sounds nice (i was actually kind of dissapointed to not see the Kobold "ingenuity" as part of one of their abilities but meh), but we won't know if its balanced until we know what are the traps (and what they do)

[Shriketalon]

I'm rather disappointed in the lack of thematic crunch. I understand that Pack Tactics is powerful, but it irritates me that it's the only thing that defines the Kobold, with the exception of one extremely lame combat power. Kobolds trap. Kobolds sneak. Kobolds have dragon blood. This "Kobold" has no bonuses to trapping, no sneaking boost beyond a +1 dex mod, and no affinity with the draconic bloodline sorcerer. It's a cool mechanic, but if you didn't add a nameplate, would you really think it's a kobold?

Kobolds should have had subraces.

It would have been really easy to design three subraces to encompass the full glory that is Kobold kind. Kommandos get the current stats. They spend their lives fighting in the deep, giving them Sunlight Sensitivity and Pack Tactics. Kavers are your trapper kobolds, with bonuses to sneak, the ability to craft snares and small bombs in short rests like a lizardman, and excellent hiding in a fight. Kasters are your dragonwrought kobolds with a bonus to charisma and set of small abilities that compliment the dragon bloodline's chassis.

The result would be a Kobold for every occasion, fully fleshing out everything the race is supposed to do.

[DracoKnight]

I'm rather disappointed in the lack of thematic crunch. I understand that Pack Tactics is powerful, but it irritates me that it's the only thing that defines the Kobold, with the exception of one extremely lame combat power. Kobolds trap. Kobolds sneak. Kobolds have dragon blood. This "Kobold" has no bonuses to trapping, no sneaking boost beyond a +1 dex mod, and no affinity with the draconic bloodline sorcerer. It's a cool mechanic, but if you didn't add a nameplate, would you really think it's a kobold?

Kobolds should have had subraces.

It would have been really easy to design three subraces to encompass the full glory that is Kobold kind. Kommandos get the current stats. They spend their lives fighting in the deep, giving them Sunlight Sensitivity and Pack Tactics. Kavers are your trapper kobolds, with bonuses to sneak, the ability to craft snares and small bombs in short rests like a lizardman, and excellent hiding in a fight. Kasters are your dragonwrought kobolds with a bonus to charisma and set of small abilities that compliment the dragon bloodline's chassis.

The result would be a Kobold for every occasion, fully fleshing out everything the race is supposed to do.

You want something more like what we at the Middle Finger of Vecna (http://www.middlefingerofvecna.com/2015/07/kobold.html) team created. This kobold comes from before my time at the Finger, but there's a lot of love put into what we do, and it's an excellently designed race. :smallbiggrin:

[Shriketalon]

You want something more like what we at the kobold we at the Middle Finger of Vecna team created.

Tip of the hat to you all at MFV. That is a mighty fine kobold. :smallsmile:

[Scarce]

Tip of the hat to you all at MFV. That is a mighty fine kobold. :smallsmile:

Finger of Vecna dropping in. That kobold was graciously used with permission of Ralcos of this very forum. All praise belongs to him

[djreynolds]

Sir you are a knight.
Stand up for the little guy, the kolbold sucks.
The human gets +6, my dwarf and half elf get +4 , everyone else has +3. Kolbold gets 0. -2+2=0
AFB, but 60 darkvision and sun light sensitivity, not 120.
No small guy stuff, like halfling?

A kolbold can use any ranged attack melee without disadvantage .

And they find familar for free, now they always have an ally.

[Deleted]

Orcs got negative to int and don't have much for them to make up for it

Arcane Cleric Orcs no need to think goodly

[Sigreid]

I don't like the attribute penalty for orcs or kobolds. I don't consider the penalty the end of days, but it annoys me that they broke their rule of no negative attributes on PCs. I talked to my group and we decided that we're ok with just ignoring the penalties but not adding anything new. IMO neither race gets anything so fantastic that it needs to be balanced with a penalty.

[coredump]

I had a halfling battle master when Volo's came out. And I realized that kobold fit my idea of the character better.....but the kobold seemed so much weaker.

I decided I didn't care, and switched to Kobold anyway. (AL rules)

Man was I wrong. Pack Tactics have proven way more useful than I thought they would. My damage dealing has become much more reliable. Sunlight sensitivity is rarely a problem, and usually just cancels with PT.

Grovel/Beg isn't really in his personality, so I have only used it once. But mechanically it is *MUCH* better than 'help other'. Helping someone gives advantage to one person for one attack against one specific target that you are next to.
Grovel Beg gives advantage to all allies for all their attacks against any/all enemies within 10' of you. Its like being able to Help 4-8 times at once.
And if I read it correctly, it even helps you on your next turn.

I thought kobold mechanics were a poor choice, but they have proven pretty darn effective.

[RulesJD]

I had a halfling battle master when Volo's came out. And I realized that kobold fit my idea of the character better.....but the kobold seemed so much weaker.

I decided I didn't care, and switched to Kobold anyway. (AL rules)

Man was I wrong. Pack Tactics have proven way more useful than I thought they would. My damage dealing has become much more reliable. Sunlight sensitivity is rarely a problem, and usually just cancels with PT.

Grovel/Beg isn't really in his personality, so I have only used it once. But mechanically it is *MUCH* better than 'help other'. Helping someone gives advantage to one person for one attack against one specific target that you are next to.
Grovel Beg gives advantage to all allies for all their attacks against any/all enemies within 10' of you. Its like being able to Help 4-8 times at once.
And if I read it correctly, it even helps you on your next turn.

I thought kobold mechanics were a poor choice, but they have proven pretty darn effective.

Honestly, same thing.

No DMs pay attention to the Daylight Sensitivity, and even if they do, at worst you're going to be rolling regular.

Grovel + Beg on a Short Rest is one of the best racial features. Pack Tactics = you can upcast melee/ranged attack spells with confidence that you'll hit, so hello upcast Inflict Wounds.

Seriously, gotta give the Kobold more props than I ever did originally. It is one of the stronger platforms if you aren't going for a Strength build, and even then, just get a pair of Gauntlets of Ogre Power and problem solved.

[Sigreid]

I had a halfling battle master when Volo's came out. And I realized that kobold fit my idea of the character better.....but the kobold seemed so much weaker.

I decided I didn't care, and switched to Kobold anyway. (AL rules)

Man was I wrong. Pack Tactics have proven way more useful than I thought they would. My damage dealing has become much more reliable. Sunlight sensitivity is rarely a problem, and usually just cancels with PT.

Grovel/Beg isn't really in his personality, so I have only used it once. But mechanically it is *MUCH* better than 'help other'. Helping someone gives advantage to one person for one attack against one specific target that you are next to.
Grovel Beg gives advantage to all allies for all their attacks against any/all enemies within 10' of you. Its like being able to Help 4-8 times at once.
And if I read it correctly, it even helps you on your next turn.

I thought kobold mechanics were a poor choice, but they have proven pretty darn effective.

So, for me at least it's not that the kobold seems weak or anything like that. In 5e Dex is a perfectly acceptable attack stat. My issue is consistency in the rules.

[BBQ Pork]

I'm thinking that this could have some potential.

I've ordered Volo's and as soon as it shows up, I might roll one up a few just to have some options. Rogue seems like the first choice. (Although the Imposter and Infiltrator feats from the Assassin archetype would have to be nixed if I go with that AT.)


Maybe use the updated Beastmaster Ranger (anyone have the link handy, or which sourcebook to grab?) and see if his mount counts as "an ally within 5ft".

[Davrix]

Pack tactics is huge, and STR is a relatively unimportant stat. Kobolds aren't going to make good barbarians, but they're amazing rogues and can even do well as most other melee classes. Fighters, Paladins, et cetera can use rapiers.


My kobold Dex Barbarion will strongly disagree with you :)

That being said they are a super strong race and the -2 to str just adds flavor tot he race IMO and well depending on your DM a big hat, cloak and some goggles gets you around the sunlight problem :)

[SaintRidley]

I don't like how the kobolds are the only pc race that gets a negative to a stat (-2 to str).

Orcs (-2 Int).

Anyway, hardly worth being terribly concerned over. Orcs are more screwed, as they seem clearly less good than half-orcs.

[sambojin]

What you want is a Moon Druid Kobold. Stuff that can be used in wildshape: pack tactics. Stuff that specifically gets overwritten by wildshape: vision (so probably sunlight sensitivity, considering most people's solution to it is to get a good pair of goggles).

Welcome to your 19Str bear with advantage. And grovel, for when you really want it. Saves a few slots that you'd normally be using on Faerie Fire (and can be used in WS) anyway.

Problem solved.

Most kobolds want to be large or huge creatures anyway, but you can drop into stealth/caster form if the need arises too. But Moon gets rid of all the disadvantages, keeps all the advantages, is kind of fitting with the race's outlook, and is really damn powerful early on. No +wis, but honestly, you don't really need it with free advantage and free FF in WS.

[MagneticKitty]

Short answer: Yes


Long answer: Yes, until you realize that a Kobold Moon Druid is now monstrously powerful by being able to avoid Sunlight Sensitivity while still maintaining Pack Tactics*


*DM discretion is advised.

Actually wrong
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/01/20/would-a-wildshaped-druid-still-suffer-from-sunlight-sensitivity/

[MaxWilson]

What you want is a Moon Druid Kobold. Stuff that can be used in wildshape: pack tactics. Stuff that specifically gets overwritten by wildshape: vision (so probably sunlight sensitivity, considering most people's solution to it is to get a good pair of goggles).

Welcome to your 19Str bear with advantage. And grovel, for when you really want it. Saves a few slots that you'd normally be using on Faerie Fire (and can be used in WS) anyway.

Problem solved.

Most kobolds want to be large or huge creatures anyway, but you can drop into stealth/caster form if the need arises too. But Moon gets rid of all the disadvantages, keeps all the advantages, is kind of fitting with the race's outlook, and is really damn powerful early on. No +wis, but honestly, you don't really need it with free advantage and free FF in WS.

Considering what druids can do with Pass Without Trace, a goblin Moon Druid is probably a more powerful choice than a kobold. A kobold Moon Druid relies on having other PCs on the front lines to grant him Pack Tactics advantage, but that will just let the enemy target the other front-liners, so you get no real benefit from the Moon Druid's huge HP buffer. Meanwhile, Moon Druid offense tends to be quite weak past a certain point, so the kobold is just getting advantage on weak attacks.

Contrast this with e.g. a goblin Mobile Moon Druid Air Elemental with Pass Without Trace up who can attack from hiding and then just vanish into the mists between turns using his Stealth +17ish, or a goblin Moon Druid Fire Elemental who can bonus action Disengage to move through all of the enemies, setting them all on fire (2d10 damage, half immediate and half at the start of its next turn, with ongoing 1d10 per round after that unless it spends an action to put the fire out), before making his regular attacks. (Or he can Dash + bonus Disengage to hit twice as many enemies if there are a bunch of enemies.) A normal Moon Druid would take opportunity attacks unless he spent his action on Disengage.

[KorvinStarmast]

I don't like how the kobolds are the only pc race that gets a negative to a stat (-2 to str). Then Thay are Givin sunlight sensitivity. there cower and grovel ability is kind of cool but doesn't make up for anything. I'm afb but I don't think they even get any skills unlike almost every other race in the book hat get 2. What do ya'll think and any homebrew to fix kobolds. No need to fix anything. Pack tactics more than makes up for a kobold who is in a party with other PC's. This game isn't played solo.

[Wryte]

All this talk about Pack Tactics counteracting Sunlight Sensitivity seem to be ignoring that there are things to do in this game other than the attack action, many of which you may want to do in sunlight.

Honestly, I'm pretty unhappy with just about all the Volo's "monstrous" races. All of them come across as only halfbaked in one way or another.

[Temperjoke]

You guys notice this thread is about a year and a half old? Also, did you guys notice that the deep gnomes in MToF and EE don't have sunlight sensitivity, despite having superior darkvision and coming from the Underdark?

[LudicSavant]

I don't like how the kobolds are the only pc race that gets a negative to a stat (-2 to str). Then Thay are Givin sunlight sensitivity. there cower and grovel ability is kind of cool but doesn't make up for anything. I'm afb but I don't think they even get any skills unlike almost every other race in the book hat get 2. What do ya'll think and any homebrew to fix kobolds.

I think it's even worse than that, because the kobold's design problems go beyond questions of power level. The ability to cower and grovel is one of those things that turns something everyone could do (fake cower and grovel) into a racial power. It's a very 4e-ish design choice.

Lizardfolk in Volo's did something similar, saying that the ability to craft stuff from bones is a racial power.

[MaxWilson]

I think it's even worse than that, because the kobold's design problems go beyond questions of power level. The ability to cower and grovel is one of those things that turns something everyone could do (fake cower and grovel) into a racial power. It's a very 4e-ish design choice.

Lizardfolk in Volo's did something similar, saying that the ability to craft stuff from bones is a racial power.

While I mostly agree, I think the correct way for DMs to proceed is to not let it restrict you from doing what you would have done anyway. If you find that you're letting everyone cower and grovel with the same benefits that a kobold would normally get, don't let that change your rulings on cowering and grovelling--give the kobold something else to compensate. (Or don't, if you think Pack Tactics is enough.)

Don't let the character building rules push you into adopting rules you don't want to adopt.

[FabulousFizban]

no. why? two words: pack tactics.

[nothinglord]

I felt that the -2 Str was unnecessary, as Pack Tactics is balanced by the Sunlight Sensitivity. It also doesn't make much sense for them to be so physically weak since they're mostly miners.

I also found it strange that in Volo's Guide itself, it states that Kobolds have an innate knowledge of of stonework, similar to that of Dwarves, yet they no such ability. It's such a niche ability that I just gave them that too.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

Pack tactics is huge, and STR is a relatively unimportant stat. Kobolds aren't going to make good barbarians, but they're amazing rogues and can even do well as most other melee classes. Fighters, Paladins, et cetera can use rapiers.

Agree to disagree. Haha, I just did a build for the Kobold Dex-Barb and it's a lot of fun and surprisingly effective.