PDA

View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next A new perspective on Monks (PEACH)



GalacticAxekick
2016-11-08, 11:35 AM
Every class has its unique power source and grows on a trajectory defined by that power source. For Fighters, this is martial skill with choice weapons, armours and fighting techniques. For Rangers, this is knowledge of terrain, quarry and techniques of survival. For Wizards this is the study of outside magic. For Sorcerers its the intuition of innate magic. Clerics: god-given power. Warlocks: power bartered from the eldritch. And so on.

My problem is that Monks overlap. Traditional D&D Monks are martial artists who strive for perfection of body and mind. An expression of this is that the manipulate Ki to gain almost magical benefits to their physical abilities and perceptions. It's a sort of mind-over-matter concept where wisdom and focus can produce strength, speed and fortitude. But because sheer martial skill is characteristic of Fighters, I see no reason why Fighters shouldn't have access to martial arts, and I'm especially frustrated Ki is tied to martial arts (meaning every master brawler in the word is some kind of mystic).

My alternative would be to downplay martial arts, hand that to the Fighter, and return to the roots of the Monk: the strive for perfection and mind over matter. I've only come up with the gist of how this would work, and I'd like to spec the entire class, but I'm satisfied the concept at least.



At 1st level, Monks would acquire the Mind Over Matter feature. This, rather than Martial Arts, is definitive of the Monk: the ability to push past normal limits without outside help, using only your own abilities. This feature would be overpowered for many other classes, and would be overpowered in multiclassing if not for the equipment and Monk level constraints.

Your mental abilities mirror your physical abilities.
Intelligence, like Strength, grants bonuses to your attack and damage rolls with Monk weapons. You scrutinize your foes’ defences to make the slightest blow devastating.
Wisdom, like Dexterity, grants bonuses to AC when you are unarmoured. You intuit and predict what others can only react to
Cha, like Con, grants bonuses to HP whenever you gain a Monk level. Your force of will drives you even as your body fails."

Mind Over Matter allows stat bonuses to stack, but it also allows stat penalties to stack. This is key regarding its role.

A Monk may strive to achieve perfection through specialty in a single art. For instance, 15 Dex and Wis, 12 Con and Cha, 8 Str and Int means +4 AC and +2 HP and lots of great skills! But that's also -2 to all attacks and the loss of some important skills.
A Monk may strive to achieve perfection through dabbling in many arts. For instance, 13 Dex, Wis and Con, 12 Str, Int and Cha means +2 AC, +2 HP and +2 to attacks, plus a foot in every skill! But a +1 in every skill isn't outstanding, and unlike the proficiency bonus of Jack of All Trades, it isn't growing.
A Monk may strive to achieve literal mind over matter. 15 Int, Wis and Cha, 8 Str, Dex and Con means +1 AC, +1 HP, +1 to all attacks—meager bonuses—but totally without physical abilities, and with robust mental skills/saves.

Features that follow would generally play into what a Monk can accomplish unarmed and unarmored, granding them uncanny power over the battlefield, agility, defenses and skills for a class that is technically not skilled in combat, magic or any trades.

One subclass would represent The Way Within, granting features that expand and refine your racial perceptions, defenses, attacks and other abilities. Nature over nurture.
A Dwarf of TWWI might become stronger & sturdier at 3rd level, gain tremorsense at 6th level, etc.
An Elf of TWWI might become more lithe or illusive at 3rd level, and at 6th level they might gain the power to stay alert and active during their trance, so they continue to act during long rests, except spellcasting and other powers that recover during rest, etc
A Red Dragonborn of TWWI might gain immunity to fire and more uses of their breath weapon at 3rd level, and gain attunement to a habitat at 6th (e.g, see, hear and smell through smoke, flame & bright light. Maybe even the power to defect sources of intense heat), etc.
A Gnome of TWWI might become magical themselves at 3rd level, for the purpose of un unarmed strikes overcoming resistance to non-magic and optionally dealing force damage, and at 6th level they may gain a passive Detect Magic sense

The second subclass would represent The Way Without, granting features that use your background traits to enhance you, representing lived experience. Nurture over nature.
An Entertainer of TWWO might gain powers that distract, charm, frighten, deafen or blind targets, and features relating to how they roll acrobatics, sleight, and the Cha skills.
A Soldier of TWWO might gain an expanded Monk weapon list, improvised weapon options, and features relating to how they roll athletics, acrobatics and intimidate, for instance
An Criminal or Urchin of TWWO might gain uncanny stealth options (think Way of Shadows) and features relating to how they roll acrobatics, sleight of hand and stealth.

And because of the fundamental benefit of striving to improve one's self, I can see this form of Monk being a popular multiclass option. Mind Over Matter and improved racial/background traits can benefit any build, I'm sure, without breaking it thematically.

PapaQuackers
2016-11-08, 11:51 AM
Without ki, chakra, or one of it's kin this is no longer a monk.

Monks dedication to spiritual used to be at the detriment of their physical bodies. They would be thin, frail, weak masters of concentration and fonts of wisdom.

This was changed with introductions of tai chi and similar practices. That allowed them to integrate the physical into the spiritual.

My point is, that I have no issue with the abilities you've proposed as their own class. But they are not monk like. The spirit doesn't override the body, they reach harmony.

Just make a new class.

GalacticAxekick
2016-11-08, 12:06 PM
Without ki, chakra, or one of it's kin this is no longer a monk.

Monks dedication to spiritual used to be at the detriment of their physical bodies. They would be thin, frail, weak masters of concentration and fonts of wisdom.

This was changed with introductions of tai chi and similar practices. That allowed them to integrate the physical into the spiritual.

My point is, that I have no issue with the abilities you've proposed as their own class. But they are not monk like. The spirit doesn't override the body, they reach harmony.

Just make a new class.I'm not sure I follow.

For one, Ki points aren't a good model for monastic tradition. They don't reflect actual harmony or acuity or physical and spiritual stats, because they aren't at all dependent on those stats. They're just granted as a class feature. They're an arbitrary ammunition for Monk abilities.

Contrast Mind Over Matter.

It models for a would-be thin, frail weak master finding physical prowess through the spiritual.
8 Str, Dex, Con, 15 Int, Wis, Cha = +1 attack, AC, HP instead of -1.

It models for a physically mighty character losing out due to lack of discipline.
15 Str, Dex, Con, 8 Int, Wis, Cha = +1 attack, AC, HP instead of +2

And it models for harmony between physical and spiritual (15 Str and Int, Dex and Wis, or Con and Cha) granting especially grand results (+4s from focus on paired stats, +2 across the board for dabbling in all stats)

That isn't Monk-like?

But maybe more importantly I didn't mention throwing away Ki anyway, so I don't see why the lack of Ki was a point of contention. I only said I think making martial arts exclusive to the ki-wielding class is ridiculous, and that Fighter should have access to unarmed combat).

Sicarius Victis
2016-11-08, 01:23 PM
So, if they used a DEX-based weapon, would they modify it with WIS instead of INT?

But to be honest, I agree that this isn't really a "Monk". A "Mystic" character, maybe, but a "Monk" is something else entirely.

GalacticAxekick
2016-11-08, 01:47 PM
So, if they used a DEX-based weapon, would they modify it with WIS instead of INT? Probably not, for balance reasons. +5 Dex and Wis to attack and AC would be obscene. The Int bonus is phrased so as to apply to all Monk weapons, regardless of whether it uses Str or Dex.


But to be honest, I agree that this isn't really a "Monk". A "Mystic" character, maybe, but a "Monk" is something else entirely. How so? I don't see anything mystical about what I've outlined, and as I wrote above, it's supposed to approximate a Monk's balance of physical and mental to actualize self. What is it missing, or what does it have that a Monk shouldn't?

PapaQuackers
2016-11-08, 02:08 PM
Because the epitome of monk-dom is not "Mind over Matter". That implies discord, that there is a disconnect between what your body is and what your mind is.

Allowing your force of will to override your constitution is not the exercise of a monk. They seek unity between the two, so that they may coincide and work together.

The idea of being able to add your mental stats to your physical stats is interesting in it's idea, but I don't think that it better captures what it means to be a monk than allowing you to add your Wisdom to certain saves, and channel your Ki into your body.

Those attempt to combine your body and your spirit.

I also don't think monks really have any need or want for intelligence scores.

I would once again recommend you make a new class using this system, as I don't think you'll find many people who agree that Ki/Wisdom are not representative of a monk.

clash
2016-11-08, 02:18 PM
I like the idea. I am interested to see your rework based off this. Just be very careful with the stacking ability scores. +10 to unarmed ac is fine but +10 to an attack roll can break bounded accuracy. It needs some kind of upper boundary limitations.