Improving Initiative?

[2D8HP]

At another thread I saw this:

How often do I take advantage of Remarkable Athlete? How about 8-10 times a day, if not more. Most of which are Initiative, one of the most important checks of all,Sadly it never occurred to me before that the Champions "Remarkable Athlete" Class Feature could improve initiative.

Other than the "Alert" Feat, is there anything else I missed?

[Ninja_Prawn]

Jack of All Trades? That's the big one, because it stacks with advantage and the swashbuckler's bonus.

[RickAllison]

At another thread I saw this:
Sadly it never occurred to me before that the Champions "Remarkable Athlete" Class Feature could improve initiative.

Other than the "Alert" Feat, is there anything else I missed?



Swashbuckler adds Charisma to initiative, Bard has the same as Champion but rounded down, Barbarian gets advantage. That's it, I think. You can add half proficiency and your Charisma modifier.

[hymer]

Enhance Ability for Dex.

[Biggstick]

So let's take a little closer look at this.

Human feat: Alert. (+5 initiative)

Dexterity bonus. (eventually +5 initiative)

Bard 2 grants Jack of all Trades. (Half of prof mod rounded down)

Bard 3 grants access to Enhance Ability. (Advantage on Dex checks, meaning we can have advantage on Initiative)

Swashbuckler. (+Cha mod to initiative, eventually +5)
So if you were to build this character, I'd start as a Rogue for the higher number of skills. Go Human for the Alert feat, and ensure you have 16 Charisma and 16 Dexterity. Pick up three levels of Swashbuckler Rogue, and then go 17 levels of Lore Bard. The following calculations include ASI's for either Cha or Dex, it doesn't matter which you go as both increase your initiative. The advantage comes from utilizing Enhance Ability. Once you're max level, it can come from Foresight.

At level 1: +8 initiative. [Rogue 1]
At level 3: +11 initiative. [Swashbuckler 3]
At level 5: +12 initiative. [Swashbuckler 3//Bard 2]
At level 6: +12 initiative (with advantage). [Swashbuckler 3//Lore Bard 3]
At level 7: +13 initiative (with advantage). [Swashbuckler 3//Lore Bard 4]
At level 9: +14 initiative (with advantage). [Swashbuckler 3//Lore Bard 6]
At level 11: +15 initiative (with advantage). [Swashbuckler 3//Lore Bard 8]
At level 15: +16 initiative (with advantage). [Swashbuckler 3//Lore Bard 12]
At level 17: +17 initiative (with advantage). [Swashbuckler 3//Lore Bard 14]
At level 19: +18 initiative (with advantage). [Swashbuckler 3//Lore Bard 16]
At level 20: +18 initiative (with advantage). [Swashbuckler 3//Lore Bard 17]
It's a pretty powerful tool, and would definitely create for an interesting support character that almost always gets to go first.

[MrStabby]

Guidance can, also I believe bardic inspiration can help with that (although away from book so would have to check).

[SillyPopeNachos]

Get in a surprise round, it means you always win initiative

[Sicarius Victis]

Get in a surprise round, it means you always win initiative

Close enough, I suppose.

Also add Lucky/Diviner/Barbarian to improve your rolls.

[Oramac]

Guidance can

Indeed it can. Also, Lucky and Divination Wizard can help too.

[rollingForInit]

In addition to the above, the Unearthed Arcana Mystic can use the Celerity discpline. It gives advantage on Initiative rolls, and allows the Mystic to spend psi points to boost an initiative roll.

Fiend Pact Warlock's ability Dark One's Own Luck can add 1d10 to an ability check.

Bardic Inspiration also works for all ability checks.

[Zene]

Wild Sorcerer's Tides of Chaos ability can be used to get advantage on the initiative roll.

[Zene]

So, question for the hive mind: What's the best use for an early initiative? Any builds that could really take advantage of acting early, more than others? Certainly Assassins, and probably most crowd controllers/aoe's would love to throw down a spell before the melee-ers get in the way. Any that I'm missing?

On the flipside, are there certain builds that would want to go *late* in the order? Like with abilities that are less proactive, and better as a response to what is happening? And if so, what could be done to *reduce* their initiative rolls? Lucky feat would work well, especially if you otherwise had advantage - you could then choose the lowest of three dice if you wanted. What else would work?

[Sicarius Victis]

So, question for the hive mind: What's the best use for an early initiative? Any builds that could really take advantage of acting early, more than others? Certainly Assassins, and probably most crowd controllers/aoe's would love to throw down a spell before the melee-ers get in the way. Any that I'm missing?

On the flipside, are there certain builds that would want to go *late* in the order? Like with abilities that are less proactive, and better as a response to what is happening? And if so, what could be done to *reduce* their initiative rolls?

Any burst-damage character benefits from high initiative. Rogue, Paladin, Sorcerer, etc. Debuffers and controllers, such as other casters and even BM, also benefit, as they can often remove opponents entirely from the fight before they get a chance to respond.

At the same time, AoE/control characters can often benefit from lower initiative, if they have to wait until enemies are in a good position before doing their thing. Casters that for some reason focus on healing allies in combat also benefit, as they can wait until allies are injured to heal them. Lower initiative can be gotten with effects that let you choose which die to use, such as Portent or Lucky, can be used to decrease your initiative. Holding your action can also work.

[MrStabby]

So, question for the hive mind: What's the best use for an early initiative? Any builds that could really take advantage of acting early, more than others? Certainly Assassins, and probably most crowd controllers/aoe's would love to throw down a spell before the melee-ers get in the way. Any that I'm missing?

On the flipside, are there certain builds that would want to go *late* in the order? Like with abilities that are less proactive, and better as a response to what is happening? And if so, what could be done to *reduce* their initiative rolls? Lucky feat would work well, especially if you otherwise had advantage - you could then choose the lowest of three dice if you wanted. What else would work?

Damage characters want to go later in initiative order - to have the greatest chance of being buffed by allies or having their enemies debuffed. Likewise those buffing like clerics tend to want to go first.

Controllers may depend on the spells. Movement restricting spells are great before enemies can get into range.

To be honest this is assuming that parties have more specialist abilities than enemies, sometimes you want to time things right to break concentration on enemy key spells or you want to time your spells so there is minimal chance of having your own concentration broken.

[LudicSavant]

If anyone has the Guidance cantrip, they can and should be keeping it up all day unless they have something else to concentrate on. It'll grab you +1d4 to Initiative.

Enhance Ability will grant advantage on Dexterity checks (including initiative).

Foresight will make you immune to surprise and grant advantage on Initiative.

The Jack of All Trades feature will grant half your proficiency bonus to Initiative checks. Bardic Inspiration can also boost Initiative checks, either for others (normally) or for yourself (with Peerless Skill).

The Guardian minor property (pg143 DMG) can add +2 initiative to any magic item.

The Weapon of Warning (Pg213 DMG, Uncommon) gives advantage on initiative checks, immunity to surprise for the entire party, and wakes you and your party up immediately when initiative is rolled (in case anyone is sleeping).

The Sentinel Shield (pg199 DMG, Uncommon) is a steal of a shield which gives you advantage on perception and initiative checks.

Warlocks with fiend patrons can use the Dark One's own luck to add+1d10 to initiative rolls.

Tides of Chaos (level 1) allows a Wild Magic Sorcerer to gain advantage on Initiative checks. They can also add +1d4 to the initiative rolls of their allies with Bend Luck (level 6).

Thief's Reflexes effectively makes your second turn come faster, potentially giving you 3 turns before anyone else can act.

Portent can let you choose a creature's initiative count, potentially allowing the entire team to go before an enemy. This can often obliterate an encounter outright.

Halflings get to reroll 1s on initiative checks.

The Lucky feet will let you reroll initiative checks (effectively granting you Advantage or Advantage+)