Types and States of Energy in D&D: a discussion

[Jowgen]

In D&D there are a lot of types of energy, and some of these types get to exist in different states, but there appears to be is very little consistency.

For example, Fire is an energy type, that can come alive as an Elemental, and the Elemental Plane of Fire has "compacted" solid fire that can make up floors. Maybe there are stats for solid fire somewhere, I am not aware of them. Furthermore, Fire can exist at different levels of Fiery-ness; with things like the Searing Spell feat and Inferno Stars (Dragon 347) producing fire that can even burn things immune to fire.

In contrast, Cold only really exists as an energy type (Uttercold being a mixture of cold and negative energy, thus not qualifying). I know of no pure "solid cold", or other states that cold energy can come in. Acid, Electricity and Sonic are largely in the same boat there, with Acid maybe being the exception, as actual liquid Acid (at least when created by a spell) may count.

Now positive and negative energy both have their pure forms and solid forms. The solid form of Positive Energy is an indestructable material that's part of Soul Fonts, like the Bastion of Broken souls (from the adventure module of the same name); while the solid from of Negative Energy is Voidstone (needs no introduction). Now I think there might also be pure liquid versions of both, but I am uncertain on that point.

Now what I'm interested here are other examples of energy types in D&D that can be found in different states. We might even be able to piece together a sort of "Unified Energy Theory" that explains how/why energies in D&D exists as they do, although I doubt we'll get the far.

[exelsisxax]

TL;DR this whole upcoming thread.
https://ponyslitterbox.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/magic.jpg?w=640&h=480

Because we all know a wizard did it.

[Falcon X]

TL;DR this whole upcoming thread.
https://ponyslitterbox.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/magic.jpg?w=640&h=480

Because we all know a wizard did it.
There's a lot of truth to that. The definition of magic includes the concept of an unknown source.

Anyway:
Water, obviously, fits this paradigm. Water gets denser to the point that you can walk on it (it's called ice).

There is also the theory that the 4 core elements represent the primary states of matter: Solid, Liquid, Gas, and Plasma (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_matter)/Phlogiston (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phlogiston_theory).
I don't have time to think about it now, but I might explore the properties of Plasma and Phlogiston and see if it makes sense with what we know about the Plane of Fire.

[Darrin]

If you want to categorize "energy" = "damage", then maybe consider:

psychokinetic (uh, XPH?)
vile (BoVD)
profane (?)
sacred (?)
hellfire (Fiendish Codex II)
frostburn (Frostburn)
searing energy (Purple Dragon Breath, Dragon Compendium)

[daremetoidareyo]

Let us not forget the city damage type.

[Jowgen]

If you want to categorize "energy" = "damage", then maybe consider:

psychokinetic (uh, XPH?)
vile (BoVD)
profane (?)
sacred (?)
hellfire (Fiendish Codex II)
frostburn (Frostburn)
searing energy (Purple Dragon Breath, Dragon Compendium)

Hmmm. If you lump together psychokinetic with general (tele)kinetic energy, you might be able to argue things like wall of force to represent their solid state.

Vile, Profane and Sacred seem like Evil/Good energies in different flavors, and I don't see those existing in different states.

Hellfire certainly is a type of energy; which I think can be lumped into the "hotter fire" category. Same with searing I think.

Frostburn as a damage type doesn't quite seem to fit; but looking it up has revealed the existence of "Coldfire" to me: viscous fluid of pure cold energy, a half-gas, half-liquid mixture that flows like a river, but can travel in any direction, regardless of gravity. Looks like Cold finally got itself an alternate state :smallsmile:


Let us not forget the city damage type.

Oh yes. City damage. The most fundamental of all damage types. Exists in states ranging from Thorp to Metropolis. Certainly something that warrants inclusion. :smalltongue:

[DrMotives]

Vile, Profane and Sacred seem like Evil/Good energies in different flavors, and I don't see those existing in different states.


Ah, but you forget the Taint Elemental from HoH, which is a monster made of liquid evil. And this isn't Ghostbusters II, so the liquid evil is charcoal grey instead of cotton candy pink. I'm guessing no one ever made an Exalted Elemental though, but I could be wrong.

[KillianHawkeye]

Water, obviously, fits this paradigm. Water gets denser to the point that you can walk on it (it's called ice).

Perhaps you aren't aware of this, but ice is actually LESS dense than liquid water. That is why it floats.

[ShurikVch]

Solid form of Positive Energy was also mentioned in the Elder Evils: bones of Blistered Souls were made of it


solid from of Negative Energy is VoidstoneI doubt it: Voidstone doesn't healing Undead


Hellfire certainly is a type of energy; which I think can be lumped into the "hotter fire" category. Same with searing I think.I think Hellfire just looks like a fire: it don't do fire damage (also, will it allow to use Healing Flame feat?)


Ah, but you forget the Taint Elemental from HoHIn that case, should we also mention Shadow Elemental (Tome of Magic), Darkness Pseudo-Elemental (Dragon #322), and Ectoplasm Elemental (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030725c)? (Also, Blackfire Elementals in Dungeon #100)

[Falcon X]

My studies have taken me to the Sage of Everything's guide to planar atomic theory: http://mimir.net/essays/planarphysics.html

In summary, all 4 basic elements are actually the 4 atom types of the universe. They can connect to each other, spin with energy, etc.
My takeaway on fire atoms is that hey are normally very free and not-dense. Thus, you can increase the density of fire as mentioned.
As for the other elements, they might be tied to energy types. Dense water becomes salt, etc.

Idk, it's just the beginning of a theory as the Sage doesn't speak much about density....

[Jowgen]

Solid form of Positive Energy was also mentioned in the Elder Evils: bones of Blistered Souls were made of it

Good addition :smallsmile: The stuff from BoBS is just indestructable innert solid positive energy, but these solid positive energy bones animate the creatures they're part of. Most interesting.


I doubt it: Voidstone doesn't healing Undead

True, but a) it's explcitily called out as "negative energy folds in on itself, stabilizing into solid chunks of utterly black matter." It's not that unusual, if a type of energy changes state its properties can undergo drastic changes, and even positive energy can kill living things by exploding them.


I think Hellfire just looks like a fire: it don't do fire damage (also, will it allow to use Healing Flame feat?)

Hmmm, you have a point, it is a tricky one. Still, based on the sidebar on p. 119 of FCII; I still think it might at least mostly fall into the Fire category, although it could be fire mixed with something else (likely the planar essence of baator or something).


In that case, should we also mention Shadow Elemental (Tome of Magic), Darkness Pseudo-Elemental (Dragon #322), and Ectoplasm Elemental (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030725c)? (Also, Blackfire Elementals in Dungeon #100)

Shadow (and by extension Darkness), I think, can qualify as its own type of energy. Comes in a lot of flavours, has its own plane, can be used for magic; very versatile stuff.

Now Ectoplasm and Taint, I'm a bit split on. If you have a Demiplane of Ectoplasm, I suppose it makes sense to treat it as a type of energy. Same with taint, in that if it exists in your game, you have to treat it as a type of energy for that cosmology, wherein Evil has an extra flavour added to it.

There are also Blood Elementals from that one obscure wizard article. Those supposedly stem from some really distant part of the multiverse (but not far realm). I would just chalk those down as the same category as Water Elementals, which is no energy category.



My studies have taken me to the Sage of Everything's guide to planar atomic theory: http://mimir.net/essays/planarphysics.html

In summary, all 4 basic elements are actually the 4 atom types of the universe. They can connect to each other, spin with energy, etc.
My takeaway on fire atoms is that hey are normally very free and not-dense. Thus, you can increase the density of fire as mentioned.
As for the other elements, they might be tied to energy types. Dense water becomes salt, etc.

Idk, it's just the beginning of a theory as the Sage doesn't speak much about density....

I certainly see the appeal of the theory. It would make sense that the energy types in D&D exist as undividable units, and combine to form the "molecules" of the D&D world. Fire-atom, Cold-atom et al. essentially replacing Neutrons, Electrons, Protons and so forth; coming with their own magic-based mechanics.

Now an interesting question there is what kind of energy in D&D would create Gravity; i.e. be the D&D equivalent of a Graviton.

[GilesTheCleric]

An Illumine Soul's psiblade is made of "semisolid" positive energy, CPsi 33.