Need a Melee Build for Giantslayer

[Madokar]

So I got invited to a group that's in the middle of the Giantslayer campaign. They've just hit level 9. After talking to the player that recruited me, what they really need is a melee combatant.

Ideally, I'd play a paladin. But I'm new to the group, and it's their policy not to allow paladin characters until they have a better understanding of how the player acts in the campaign.

I was toying with making a Bloodrager/ Dragon Disciple build, but I misunderstood something about the Blood of Dragons ability and how it would severely limit the progression of the Bloodrager class features.

So now I'm completely up in the air about what to do. I don't know if I should focus on tweaking the Bloodrager/ Dragon Disciple build or investigate another melee build.

A Fighter and Slayer are in the group already. I'm just wondering what I can do to contribute. I was considering a Warpriest or rogue at one point, but I'm not sure anymore.

[DedWards]

Just skimmed over what the Giantslayer AP is about.

Are you against playing a Monk? I know there's an awesome Monk build based around grappling, tripping, etc., that also gets to do so against creatures of larger sizes.

[Extra Anchovies]

Since you've got two martial buddies, how about Cavalier 1/Bard 5 into Battle Herald (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/advanced-players-guide/battle-herald)? If Variant Multiclassing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement#TOC-Variant-Multiclassing)'s allowed, you could go with Bard 6 into Battle Herald, which in the long run gives you more Cavalier features than the one-level dip would.

[Gruftzwerg]

I would suggest a clawlock
monk 2/warlock 3/enlightened fist 4 (later 10 and finish with Monk of the Enabled Hand if you go up to 20).

see my signature build (almighty claw of malar).
Be aware of the burst potential and keep it on a exactable lvl for your group. If your group isn't optimizing in burst/instant kills, tune the optimization lvl and take lesser charge related stuff (try to stay in the optimization lvl of the group^^).

edit: forgot that I wanted to mention that you would have access to flight invocation (24h) already at lvl 9 with this build. and since you are fighting giants, you could assume enough space for dive attacks all the time. And on the fluff side, what could be more awesome than to punch that big stupid giant right into his big ugly face ?? xD

[Madokar]

Just skimmed over what the Giantslayer AP is about.

Are you against playing a Monk? I know there's an awesome Monk build based around grappling, tripping, etc., that also gets to do so against creatures of larger sizes.

Are you talking about an archetype of some sort?

[DedWards]

Are you talking about an archetype of some sort?

While an archetype could do better in the area it's specialising in, a well built core Monk could come close without losing what the archetype did to be better in that area. The Tetori archetype is an awesome grappler

I can't remember the exact build at the moment, but I do remember it being a pure Monk. Will get back to you once I find the build.

[Ualaa]

If your group is using Ultimate Psionics, a player used the combination of Fighter (swapping between 2-Handed and Mutation Warrior archetypes), Soulknife, and Aegis, to make some really sick melee types.



His formula would be something like:

01. Monk 01 (Archetype: Master of Many Styles: Crane Style)
02. Soulknife 01 (Archetype: Gifted Blade)
03. Soulknife 02
04. Soulknife 03
05. Soulknife 04
06. Aegis 01 (Archetype: Trailblazer... if taking Aegis to at least level 5)
07. Aegis 02
08. Aegis 03
Advance Aegis, Soulknife, or bounce between them after 8th... Aegis offers more defense and flexibility, while Soulknife is more killing power.

*Master of Many Styles - The first Crane Feat, and the requirements sans Dodge for the rest of the chain.
*Gifted Blade - Trading away Psychic Strike for Psionic progression at S.Kn -3.
*Trailblazer - Rogue trap detection, and Swift action to swap suit augments from a smaller list.



Take the feats 'Fighter's Blade' after Soulknife 03, and 'Student of the Astral Suit' after Aegis 3.
Both of those feats, make their respective class perform at +4 levels (like Shaping Focus, for a Druid) for specific elements of their classes.

Soulknife gets Power Attack, as a free class feat, at 1st level.
Being a Human allows for all the feats by 9th, otherwise you need +1 Feat or to be short one feat until 11th.



Soulknife takes 'Focused Offense' (at 2nd) and 'Focused Defense' (at 4th) as their Blade Skills.

Monk is for the first Crane Feat and most of the requirements towards progressing further in that combat style; you'll need to take Dodge before Crane Wing, and can take Crane Riposte at 9th level... which conveniently enough, you're starting at.

Combat Reflexes and a not horrible Dex, so you can take a few opportunity attacks (Riposte's when they miss you), is needed too.

Armor (from the Aegis) is probably going to be better than going monk WIS to AC.
Since 'Focused Defense' gets you WIS to AC (while using Defensive Fighting or Combat Expertise, and have Psionic Focus).
Technically Unchained Monk no longer qualifies for Master of Many Styles, but if you can go that option anyway... the +1 BAB is worth more for a primary melee than the lost saving throw bonus.

Gifted Blade (archetype) costs you your Psychic Strike (expends your Focus... BAD) to add scaling d8s to damage vs a (not mindless) creature.
Re-focus is a full-round action, or faster (a Move Action) with a couple of feats.
In exchange for Psychic Strike, you gain Psionics (at S.Kn -2)... so starting at 3rd S.Knife level.
The main one is Force Screen, +4 Shield Bonus to AC, for 1 minute/level (all fight).
If you go with Power Stone Repository & Improved Harness Power Stone, on the Aegis Suit, that means you have more Power Points to expend on Sidestep (3 PP, per use).



Student of the Astral Suit increases your Aegis level by +4, for the purposes of suit augmentations and your augmentation points.
That means you count as an Aegis 7 for which augments you can take.
And that you have 10 augment points.

Hardy (2) gets you a +2 (enhancement bonus) to CON.
Nimble (2) gets you a +2 (enhancement bonus) to DEX.
Since we're going 'Focused Offense', STR is meaningless aside from being at least 13 to take Power Attack; and 13 is likely enough to carry stuff with a Masterwork Backback.

You're using WIS for attacks and damage (including 1.5x WIS for the 2-hander), not STR.
So the Juggernaut form (Plate equivalent) with built in Hardy (+2 Con) is the way to go, not the Astral Armor (medium, with built in Brawn (Str) and DPS augments).

At the equivalent of Aegis 7, you can take Brawn/Hardy/Nimble once plus one additional time (at Aegis 5), but not a second additional time (until Aegis 10).
So the Juggernaut Armor lets you go Dex +2 and Con +6, for a cost of 6 (of the 10) augment points.
Once you get your +6 Con belt (no interest in Str/Dex belts), that frees up 4 suit augment points to spend elsewhere.

You want the augment to allow more Dex to AC.
You want the augment to increase the AC of your suit.
Flight (up to Perfect) is a nice one to have.
Burrow can come in handy at times.
Swim (with a +8 racial bonus) and Underwater Breath is good at times.
Climb is okay, but Flight is usually better.
*Trailblazer lets you (Swift Action) swap between sensory modes and travel modes, unlimited times daily... but you lose the Standard action (x times per day) to swap all Aegis Suit augments.
Evasion, even in Heavy Armor is worth the 1 augment point.
Fortification is nice sometimes.
Stalwart, for Evasion to Fort/Will saves is situational but awesome if evil Clerics are channeling to harm the living as a weapon and even half damage from five of them will hurt; I believe Stalwart is built into the Juggernaut form.
Darkvision can be nice...

Lots of Aegis - Astral Suit goodies to choose from.
Mainly go Evasion, +2 Dex, +6 Con.



You'll basically always want to 'Fight Defensively'.

That costs you -1 to attack rolls (Crane style reduction of 2, Crane Riposte reduction of 1... on the attack roll penalty).

With 3+ ranks in Acrobatics, the defense bonus increases by +1.
With the Crane feats, your AC gains a +4 (dodge) bonus.

Crane Wing effectively makes that 4 higher, against melee attacks until someone would have hit your non-Crane Wing AC or missed by only 3; then this is lost, but you get it back for free on your next turn.

Focused Defense, from Soulknife, increases this defense bonus (again, as a Dodge bonus) by your WIS mod.

Your primary item of desire is a Headband of +WIS.



The Soulknife (Fighter's Blade) has your Mindblade and Blade Skills function as a Soulknife (level 8), at 8th level or higher (four non-S.Kn levels added, to a maximum of your character level... for those features).
If you advance S.Knife from 9th and onwards, your Mindblade hasn't lost any potency.

Stats are something like:
Str - 13 (for Power Attack)
Dex - 14
Con - 14
Wis - As high as you can go
Int/Cha - No value or dump a little.

'Focused Offense' lets you use WIS for attack rolls and damage rolls.
'Focused Defense' lets you add WIS to your AC, as a Dodge bonus if you fight Defensively and have Psionic Focus (which you'll never expend).
Dex is initiative, and a small amount of AC, and Reflex saves.
Con is Fort and Hit Points.
Wis is Will saves, and attack/damage/ac.



You're basically looking like this... (on a 20 point buy) at level 9.

Monk 01 / Soulknife 05 / Aegis 03

BAB +8, 2-Handed mindblade +13/+08 (2d6+7)
(with only the minimum +1 of the +4 bonus as an enhancement to hit)

AC 19, HP 106.
Fort +11, Ref +10, Will +13

MV 30 ft. (20 ft. in current armor), or Fly 30 ft. (Good)
Darkvision on a human, naked.
25% Fortification, Stalwart & Evasion (in Plate).

With defensive fighting:
+12/+07 (2d6+7)
AC 27.

With power attack:
+10/+05 (2d6+16)

With both:
+09/+04 (2d6+16)

I'd prioritize hitting, so make the Mindblade +4 enhancement instead of +1.
But my player liked Collision (+2 bonus), adding +5 damage.
And Bane... with the augment on the mindblade to have two forms, so he could set the weapon up as Form A: 'Bane AA' and Form B: 'Bane BB', against the two things we fought the most.
Bane is +2 hit/damage and +2d6 damage.



That's without spending any money.
An average level 9, has 46k.
With a +4 WIS Headband (16k)...

Power Attack & Fighting Defensively:

AC 29, HP 106
Fort +11, Ref +10, Will +15
Fly 30 ft. (Good), Stalwart & Evasion.
Darkvision 60 ft.

AC 33 vs melee attacks, until someone would have hit AC 29, 30, 31 or 32, then AC drops to 29 vs Melee that round.
Every time you're missed, up to 4 times per round, you get a Combat Reflexes opportunity attack at your full bonus (+14).
*Force Screen increases AC by +4.

+14/+09 for 2d6+22.

[TheFamilarRaven]

Are both the fighter and the Slayer specced for range combat? If not, then why would they say they need more melee?

Anywho, it's hard to go wrong with Bloodrager for melee, (though I might be biased as it's one of my favorite classes :smalltongue:) Bloodrager/Dragon Disciple is quite confusing when it comes to the Blood of Dragons feature. Your DM may rule that the draconic bloodline of the Bloodrager may count as the Sorcerer one for the purposes of that ability. You can always ask.

Personally, I'd go with either the Black Blood, Aberrant or Arcane bloodlines. Of those 3, Aberrant is probably the best to use in Giant Slayer. The reason being is that increase to reach for all melee attacks and 50% chance of ignoring crits.... Grab yourself a reach weapon and strike creatures out to fifteen feet. Slap Enlarge Person on yourself and safely kill giant's without fear of AoO from their own reach.

[Madokar]

Are both the fighter and the Slayer specced for range combat? If not, then why would they say they need more melee?

Anywho, it's hard to go wrong with Bloodrager for melee, (though I might be biased as it's one of my favorite classes :smalltongue:) Bloodrager/Dragon Disciple is quite confusing when it comes to the Blood of Dragons feature. Your DM may rule that the draconic bloodline of the Bloodrager may count as the Sorcerer one for the purposes of that ability. You can always ask.

Personally, I'd go with either the Black Blood, Aberrant or Arcane bloodlines. Of those 3, Aberrant is probably the best to use in Giant Slayer. The reason being is that increase to reach for all melee attacks and 50% chance of ignoring crits.... Grab yourself a reach weapon and strike creatures out to fifteen feet. Slap Enlarge Person on yourself and safely kill giant's without fear of AoO from their own reach.

The Slayer is specced for range. That leaves a single melee combatant amongst a party consisting of a cleric, wizard, inquisitor, fighter, and slayer.

[TheFamilarRaven]

The Slayer is specced for range. That leaves a single melee combatant amongst a party consisting of a cleric, wizard, inquisitor, fighter, and slayer.

Honestly, sounds like you might wanna look into Skald or the Battle Herald as was suggested before. The Inquisitor, Fighter and Slayer could all benefit from some additional buffs. And while I am not too familiar with the Skald to recommend a particular build path, it is essentially a "bardbarian". Which allows you to inspire courage as well as rage. Also, there's some spell casting thrown in, which could free up some spell slots for the wizard and cleric depending on what spells you pick.


Still, pick up a reach weapon, nothing sucks more than allowing a larger creature to get a free attack of on you just for engaging them in melee.

Okay, maybe there are a lot of things that suck more, such as save or suck spells, but you get what I mean.

Edit: actually, Skald can only Inspire Rage, which unless the other Inquisitor Slayer ad Fighter need Strength and Constitution, you may want to look into the battle herald.

[killem2]

If allowed, I really like the Kathaska (spelling) [the four armed race for pathfinder], kukri, crit fishing, war priest builds :)

[DedWards]

The Slayer is specced for range. That leaves a single melee combatant amongst a party consisting of a cleric, wizard, inquisitor, fighter, and slayer.

Wait. You have an Inquisitor in the group? Depending on the Teamwork Feats he's taken, playing a Hunter could be good too. I've been tinkering on a Hunter build for a while, but have yet to actually play it. Reach weapons are actually quite good with a Hunter.

[Madokar]

So there's been a change of plans. The party's dedicated healer character died tonight. She's going to build another class, and I can go in with a healer build on a cleric.

I'm toying with the idea of a NG aasimar that is a follower of Pharasma or Sarenrae. Both goddesses have the Healing domain. It's just a matter of deciding which other domain suits the campaign better.

[CasualViking]

So there's been a change of plans. The party's dedicated healer character died tonight. She's going to build another class, and I can go in with a healer build on a cleric.

I'm toying with the idea of a NG aasimar that is a follower of Pharasma or Sarenrae. Both goddesses have the Healing domain. It's just a matter of deciding which other domain suits the campaign better.

Well, if you go Merciful Healer, you only get one domain anyway. Featwise, Pharasma's channeling feat (fateful channel) is much, much better than Sarenraes.

[Madokar]

Got a chance to talk to the GM for the first time this week. After realizing what my play style is like, he is going to allow me to play a paladin. So I'm going to take the opportunity to play a Tempered Champion paladin. Not sure of which faith I'll follow, but it's likely going to be either Iomedae or Sarenrae.

In regards as to why I'm not going to be a dedicated healer, the GM assured me that there was plenty of healer characters already. That, and he could always throw more healing items our way.

[CasualViking]

Got a chance to talk to the GM for the first time this week. After realizing what my play style is like, he is going to allow me to play a paladin. So I'm going to take the opportunity to play a Tempered Champion paladin. Not sure of which faith I'll follow, but it's likely going to be either Iomedae or Sarenrae.

In regards as to why I'm not going to be a dedicated healer, the GM assured me that there was plenty of healer characters already. That, and he could always throw more healing items our way.

If you go with Iomedae, you can trade your 9th level Mercy for this ability (through Divine Fighting Technique): "As a standard action or at the end of a charge, you can make an attack against a foe with a longsword. If you succeed, you grant all allies who can see your attack a +2 sacred bonus on attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks for 1 minute.". If they're not already carrying sacred bonuses, that's pretty nice for a no-action, long-enough buff.

[Madokar]

If you go with Iomedae, you can trade your 9th level Mercy for this ability (through Divine Fighting Technique): "As a standard action or at the end of a charge, you can make an attack against a foe with a longsword. If you succeed, you grant all allies who can see your attack a +2 sacred bonus on attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks for 1 minute.". If they're not already carrying sacred bonuses, that's pretty nice for a no-action, long-enough buff.

That's part of the appeal. Iomedaen paladins get some of the best paladin boosts, I've found out.