Lost lore (In Search for Sanity)

[Krazzman]

With my campaign ending, my wife takes up the mantle of DM and will run us through Strange Aeons.

But I need some "guidance" since I am unsure if my build will be fitting for both Lovecraftian Horror and the group.

Current Idea: Half-Elven Bard(Archetype?)//Oracle(Archetype?) with the Lore/Nature/Metal/? Mystery

It will be a group of 4 players with Gestalt characters. Conceptually we will have one Crossbow user, one going for Samurai or Ranger and one going melee.
My wife asked me to please still be melee viable as a character which makes some builds... harder.

Allowed classes are all Core and Base classes(except Vigilante). Hybrid and Occult classes are not allowed either due to fairness (too much to choose from for a newcomer already) or not having the books (Occult, Unchained, Vigilante), all Archetypes are allowed though (except tech stuff probably).

Since healing would be nice my first thought was Paladin//Oracle... but the "fitting" archetypes from the Players Guide are not cool or outright changing the things I would take Paladin for.

Any recommendations on classes or feats/traits/spells I should look out for? Fluffwise I thought about a collector of hidden lore or similar... but I am open to new ideas.

[Geddy2112]

A bard/oracle can still fight in combat. I have seen a battle oracle keep pace with a BSF barbarian, and arcane duelist bards are darn fine gishes. Even without a martial friendly archetype or mystery, 3/4BAB and some martial weapon proficiency gives you options. A longspear/combat reflexes, dakka with arrows from a shortbow, longsword and buckler... you won't need your melee much at higher levels, but you won't be a feeble arcane caster either.

For bard/oracle, the archivist bard combined with lore oracle makes you one of the best textbooks in the game. You can dump dex from lore's sidestep secret, which replaces dex for CHA in the cases of AC and reflex saves-take this at level 1. You can get to the point where you take 20 on an intelligence check with +30 or more modifier from the lore revelations, by around level 5/7. Your inspire courage replacement performance requires you to knowledge check monsters, but you should have no problem doing so. For your concept, you want the spell legend lore, which is a bard spell, but the lore oracle gets early access at level 8(bard gets it at 10, arcane casters get it at 11).
This is also a great combination for the collector of hidden lore theme.

Oracle/paladin makes the oradin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?257365-PF-Oradin-Mini-Guide-Or-How-to-be-a-Healbot-minus-the-bot), aka infinite healing, but it won't fit your theme as well. Is strange aeons gestalt? If not, I would go light on the bard, maybe a couple levels, then the rest oracle. For the oradin, you only need a bit of oracle and mostly paladin

The ancient draconic feat is good if you plan to use language dependent spells(a lot of bard spells are) and the esoteric advantage feat stacks well with the archivist bard. If you go half elf, you could nab a familiar through eldritch heritage(arcana), using your skill focus in a knowledge of choice. Get an advanced familiar and you can commune once a week, stacking on your daily commune from lore oracle when you are high enough level.

[Krazzman]

A bard/oracle can still fight in combat. I have seen a battle oracle keep pace with a BSF barbarian, and arcane duelist bards are darn fine gishes. Even without a martial friendly archetype or mystery, 3/4BAB and some martial weapon proficiency gives you options. A longspear/combat reflexes, dakka with arrows from a shortbow, longsword and buckler... you won't need your melee much at higher levels, but you won't be a feeble arcane caster either.

Thanks for the fast reply. The biggest grain of salt is the bad fort save.


Is strange aeons gestalt?

No, it isn't my wife just believes that it would be better for us since we can better stand someone missing. Especially that our Crossbow user might drop out of the game.


For bard/oracle, the archivist bard combined with lore oracle makes you one of the best textbooks in the game. You can dump dex from lore's sidestep secret, which replaces dex for CHA in the cases of AC and reflex saves. You can get to the point where you take 20 on an intelligence check with +30 or more modifier, at not that high of a level. Your inspire courage replacement performance requires you to knowledge check monsters, but you should have no problem doing so. This is also a great combination for the collector of hidden lore.

This sounds equally good and terrifying... will look through that.


Oracle/paladin makes the oradin, aka infinite healing, but it won't fit your theme as well.

Yeah, the main reason I am looking for something other than paladin is that I already play one in our other group and thought it not really fitting.


The ancient draconic feat is good if you plan to use language dependent spells(a lot of bard spells are) and the esoteric advantage feat stacks well with the archivist bard. If you go half elf, you could nab a familiar through eldritch heritage(arcana), using your skill focus in a knowledge of choice. Get an advanced familiar and you can commune once a week, stacking on your daily commune from lore oracle when you are high enough level.

You lost me on the familiar part.

[Geddy2112]

Bad fort save is an issue, but since you can dump dex and wis you can sure up your con score. If you dump strength then even more so. You will probably want intelligence for more skill points, but there is a lore revelation that lets you use charisma instead of intelligence to modify your knowledge checks, so you can leave that at 10 and grab the revelation that increases your int at 7, letting it retroactively boost skills. What is your point buy/ability roll system?

Since you are going to be gestalt, lore oracle/bard is going to get absurdly ugly, absurdly fast. You will be a walking textbook, healer and skillmonkey in no time, as well as the dominant party caster with two fantastic spell lists at your disposal. For combat, carry a compound shortbow or regular shortbow/crossbow if your strength is 10/less than 10, a longsword or rapier, and a whip to help contribute to the fray and feign being a martial class.

Okay, so eldritch heritage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/eldritch-heritage) allows you to get the 1st level bloodline power of a sorcerer bloodline. The feat requires skill focus in the class skill the bloodline grants the sorcerer, level 3, and Cha13. As a half elf, you get skill focus for free.

The arcane (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/arcane-bloodline) bloodline gives a knowledge of your choice as a class skill, so to qualify you put your skill focus you get from being a half elf into the knowledge of your choice. I suggest arcana, religion, nature, or planar(the big 4 to identify monsters). Pick one that another party member won't have(i.e. you can leave nature to the ranger).

The arcane bloodline power at first level gives you an arcane bond, which can give you a familiar. Since you have a familiar, you will qualify for the improved familiar (www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/improved-familiar) feat. Keep in mind your sorcerer(and therefore familiar) level is -2 from eldritch heritage, so you need to be 2 levels higher to get the familiar. A lot of the familiars you can select have the ability to cast commune (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/commune) once a week as a spell like ability, giving you a free 6 "20 questions" style questions to ask your DM. In addition to a ton of other zany crap your familiar can do from their other SLA's, skills, constant detection, using wands/scrolls, combat tricks, truespeech...the list goes on.

Plus the mechanical benefits of having a familiar, like the alertness feat if you are in arm's length from your familiar.

[Krazzman]

Thank you for the reply.

Most likely we will be doing rolled stats. Probably 6 times 4d6b3 to get a matrix of stat arrays giving us 14 possible arrays.
But my wife is not sure.

My main problem is spell selection and usage.

[Krazzman]

After a bit of reading I should probably refrain from Archivist.
While I think Arcane casting from Bard + Casting from Oracle will be strong I feel like the archivist is currently poorly worded.

Arcane Duelist//Oracle of Lore or Monk of the Scale//Oracle of Lore (going for Lore-Drake-ish flavour?) might be more "simple". Although I am not sure the last one would stack since Sidestep switches dex for cha and monk of the scale gives Cha as deflection to ac...

[Geddy2112]

Yeah, the archivist has unofficial errata to clean up some of its poorly written mechanics, but I totally agree.
Arcane duelist is one of the most martial archtypes for bards with a lot of good fighter feats, and it works really well with oracle with the medium/heavy armor option. Ask your DM if the arcane bonded weapon can be used for somatic components for your oracle spells as well-this will allow you to grab a shield or constantly carry a wand or whatnot in the other hand. Losing out on bardic knowledge and versatile performance is going to stretch your skill points thin and make your knowledge checks substantially weaker, so keep that in mind.

I am not familiar with monk of the scale, but if it gives CHA as a deflection bonus to AC, I think it would stack with the sidestep secret. Sidestep secret just lets you use CHA where the dex bonus would be for AC, and it counts as dex bonus for all intents and purposes. If the monk of the scale gives a deflection bonus, that is a different type of bonus. However, there is official FAQ ruling against stacking an ability score twice for most circumstances here (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=385?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#19247). I would have to see the exact wording of monk of the scale.

[Krazzman]

Yeah, the archivist has unofficial errata to clean up some of its poorly written mechanics, but I totally agree.
Arcane duelist is one of the most martial archtypes for bards with a lot of good fighter feats, and it works really well with oracle with the medium/heavy armor option. Ask your DM if the arcane bonded weapon can be used for somatic components for your oracle spells as well-this will allow you to grab a shield or constantly carry a wand or whatnot in the other hand. Losing out on bardic knowledge and versatile performance is going to stretch your skill points thin and make your knowledge checks substantially weaker, so keep that in mind.

I am not familiar with monk of the scale, but if it gives CHA as a deflection bonus to AC, I think it would stack with the sidestep secret. Sidestep secret just lets you use CHA where the dex bonus would be for AC, and it counts as dex bonus for all intents and purposes. If the monk of the scale gives a deflection bonus, that is a different type of bonus. However, there is official FAQ ruling against stacking an ability score twice for most circumstances here (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=385?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#19247).


Yeah, the all over the place thing was my main reason and going away from Bardic Knowledge is really hurtful.
How would you make the archivist work? How I see it currently I think I would take well versed out and effectively get LoreMaster earlier, at the time I would get Lore Master I get Jack of All trades, at the time I would get Jack of All trades I get the other ability. But this just doesn't seem right.


I would have to see the exact wording of monk of the scale.

I found it here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/scaled-fist-monk-archetype). Scaled Fist (I am really getting bad with names...).
While I really like the idea of a fistfighter (or Astetic Style user) I really should wait until Player 4 decided on a style of play as to not trample his toes, maybe he wants to go Sorcerer/Monk? Who knows.

[Geddy2112]

Yeah, the all over the place thing was my main reason and going away from Bardic Knowledge is really hurtful.
How would you make the archivist work? How I see it currently I think I would take well versed out and effectively get LoreMaster earlier, at the time I would get Lore Master I get Jack of All trades, at the time I would get Jack of All trades I get the other ability. But this just doesn't seem right.
The editors note reads as follows
"The designer of this archetype has clarified that the entry is intended as a modification to the normal lore master bard ability, not a replacement for it. The intent of the ability is that the Archivist retains all other aspects of the lore master ability. This is not yet official errata, but GMs are encouraged to use the ability as it was intended by the designer."
It intends for the archivist to get lore master and jack of all trades early, not get them and suddenly lose them.


I found it here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/scaled-fist-monk-archetype). Scaled Fist (I am really getting bad with names...).
While I really like the idea of a fistfighter (or Astetic Style user) I really should wait until Player 4 decided on a style of play as to not trample his toes, maybe he wants to go Sorcerer/Monk? Who knows.
Oh sweet mother goose...a monk that is CHA based....I have been dreaming of this day for so long. Thank you for showing me this. Also, I would rule that sidestep secret and the monk's AC bonus from CHA would stack because the sidestep secret uses in place of dex, does not apply to CMD or Flat footed, while the monk's just adds CHA, applies when flat footed and to CMD.
Also this archetype gets dragon style as bonus feats...that's really good. You can also use the no armor monk ascetic cloistered scholar thing to mesh with your academic knowledge seeking concept. No armor or weapons, because you are a scholar not a fighter. It reminds me of the Greybeards from Skyrim-monks that study the draconic aspects.

[Krazzman]

The editors note reads as follows
"The designer of this archetype has clarified that the entry is intended as a modification to the normal lore master bard ability, not a replacement for it. The intent of the ability is that the Archivist retains all other aspects of the lore master ability. This is not yet official errata, but GMs are encouraged to use the ability as it was intended by the designer."
It intends for the archivist to get lore master and jack of all trades early, not get them and suddenly lose them.


Oh sweet mother goose...a monk that is CHA based....I have been dreaming of this day for so long. Thank you for showing me this. Also, I would rule that sidestep secret and the monk's AC bonus from CHA would stack because the sidestep secret uses in place of dex, does not apply to CMD or Flat footed, while the monk's just adds CHA, applies when flat footed and to CMD.
Also this archetype gets dragon style as bonus feats...that's really good. You can also use the no armor monk ascetic cloistered scholar thing to mesh with your academic knowledge seeking concept. No armor or weapons, because you are a scholar not a fighter. It reminds me of the Greybeards from Skyrim-monks that study the draconic aspects.

Spoke to my wife/DM. It's allowed.
That is exactly the reason I wanted to go for it... although in my first plans it was a Brawler//Oracle of Metal build.

I am currently thinking of going with this(if player number 4 doesn't want to go Monk):
Stat priorities: Cha>Str>Con>INT/WIS>Dex
Race: Half-Elf, +2 Cha.
Classes: Scale Fist Monk (Maybe adding Quingong, have to check again or going unchained for it)//Oracle of Lore
Revelation: Sidestep Secret
Curse: Haunted
Feats: Skill Focus(Knowledge:Planes/Arcane)[R], Dragon Style[Monk 1], Stunning Fist[Monk 1], Unarmed Strike[Monk 1], ???[Level 1]
Special Abilities: Flurry of Blows
Saves: Fort: Good, Ref: Good, Will: Good.
Spells: 0th: Mage Hand[haunted], Ghost Sound[haunted], Create Water, Light, Detect Magic, Read Magic(?)/Purify Food and Drink
1st: Cure Light Wounds[bonus], Shield of Faith, Magic Weapon.
Skillpoints: 4(base)+int-mod+1(trait: Prodigy[giving +1/+1 for favoured class])+1(Favoured Class Monk)+1(Favoured Class Oracle: Multitalented) = 7+Int-mod
HP: 8+con-mod+1(trait). Or 10+Con-mod if one of the favoured class boni is switched from skill to hp).

[Geddy2112]

Spoke to my wife/DM. It's allowed.
That is exactly the reason I wanted to go for it... although in my first plans it was a Brawler//Oracle of Metal build.

I am currently thinking of going with this(if player number 4 doesn't want to go Monk):
Stat priorities: Cha>Str>Con>INT/WIS>Dex
Race: Half-Elf, +2 Cha.
Classes: Scale Fist Monk (Maybe adding Quingong, have to check again or going unchained for it)//Oracle of Lore
Revelation: Sidestep Secret
Curse: Haunted
Feats: Skill Focus(Knowledge:Planes/Arcane)[R], Dragon Style[Monk 1], Stunning Fist[Monk 1], Unarmed Strike[Monk 1], ???[Level 1]
Special Abilities: Flurry of Blows
Saves: Fort: Good, Ref: Good, Will: Good.
Spells: 0th: Mage Hand[haunted], Ghost Sound[haunted], Create Water, Light, Detect Magic, Read Magic(?)/Purify Food and Drink
1st: Cure Light Wounds[bonus], Shield of Faith, Magic Weapon.
Skillpoints: 4(base)+int-mod+1(trait: Prodigy[giving +1/+1 for favoured class])+1(Favoured Class Monk)+1(Favoured Class Oracle: Multitalented) = 7+Int-mod
HP: 8+con-mod+1(trait). Or 10+Con-mod if one of the favoured class boni is switched from skill to hp).


Looks good. I suggest making Int>Wis. Wis does next to nothing for your build except shore up will saves, but will is a good save for you. Probably more important to have skill ranks to hand out. For a feat, extra revelation is good, otherwise improved initiative. Otherwise that's about as good as it gets

[Krazzman]

After some consideration I drafted up some more options for the first level since I don't know IF the healing suffices on the "greybeard" (as cool as I think he will be once unleashed on those poor elder gods...)

Stat priorities: Cha>Str>Con>INT>WIS>Dex
Race: Half-Elf, +2 Cha.
Classes: Scale Fist Monk (Maybe adding Quingong, have to check again or going unchained for it)//Oracle of Lore
Revelation: Sidestep Secret
Curse: Haunted
Feats: Skill Focus(Knowledge:Planes/Arcane)[R], Dragon Style[Monk 1], Stunning Fist[Monk 1], Unarmed Strike[Monk 1], ???[Level 1]
Special Abilities: Flurry of Blows
Saves: Fort: Good, Ref: Good, Will: Good.
Spells: 0th: Mage Hand[haunted], Ghost Sound[haunted], Create Water, Light, Detect Magic, Read Magic(?)/Purify Food and Drink
1st: Cure Light Wounds[bonus], Shield of Faith, Magic Weapon.
Skillpoints: 4(base)+int-mod+1(trait: Prodigy[giving +1/+1 for favoured class])+1(Favoured Class Monk)+1(Favoured Class Oracle: Multitalented) = 7+Int-mod
HP: 8+con-mod+1(trait). Or 10+Con-mod if one of the favoured class boni is switched from skill to hp).
Traits: Prodigy, ???(Probably one of the campaign traits)

Stat priorities: Cha>Con>Str/Dex>INT>WIS
Race: Half-Elf, +2 Cha.
Classes: Archivist Bard//Oracle of Lore
Revelation: Sidestep Secret
Curse: Haunted
Feats: Skill Focus(Knowledge:Planes/Arcane)[R], ImpInitiative/Extra Revelation[Level 1]
Special Abilities: Bardic Knowledge, Bardic Perormance, Countersong, Distraction, Fascinate, Naturalist
Saves: Fort: Bad, Ref: Good, Will: Good.
Oracle Spells: 0th: Mage Hand[haunted], Ghost Sound[haunted], Create Water, Light, Detect Magic, Read Magic(?)/Purify Food and Drink
1st: Cure Light Wounds[bonus], Shield of Faith, Magic Weapon.
Bard Spells: 0th: Know Direction, Prestidigitation, Message, Dancing Lights
1st: Cure Light Wounds, Sleep/Grease/Feather Fall
Skillpoints: 6(base)+int-mod+1(trait: Prodigy)+1(Favoured Class Bard)+1(Favoured Class Oracle: Multitalented) = 9+Int-mod
HP: 8+con-mod+1(trait). Or 10+Con-mod if one of the favoured class boni is switched from skill to hp).
Traits: Prodigy, ???(Probably Campaign Trait)

Stat priorities: Cha>Con/Str>Dex>INT>WIS
Race: Half-Elf, +2 Cha.
Classes: Arcane Duelist Bard//Oracle of Life
Revelation: Channel
Curse: Haunted
Feats: Skill Focus(Knowledge:Planes/Arcane)[R], ImpInitiative/Extra Revelation[Level 1], Arcane Strike[Bard 1]
Special Abilities: Bardic Perormance, Rallying Cry, Distraction, Fascinate, Inspire Courage
Saves: Fort: Bad, Ref: Good, Will: Good.
Oracle Spells: 0th: Mage Hand[haunted], Ghost Sound[haunted], Create Water, Light, Detect Magic, Read Magic(?)/Purify Food and Drink
1st: Cure Light Wounds[bonus], Shield of Faith, Magic Weapon.
Bard Spells: 0th: Know Direction, Prestidigitation, Message, Dancing Lights
1st: Cure Light Wounds, Sleep/Grease/Feather Fall
Skillpoints: 6(base)+int-mod+1(trait: Prodigy)+1(Favoured Class Bard)+1(Favoured Class Oracle: Multitalented) = 9+Int-mod
HP: 8+con-mod+1(trait). Or 10+Con-mod if one of the favoured class boni is switched from skill to hp).
Traits: Prodigy, ???(Probably Campaign Trait)

Of course I could still try to go for something with Ranger//Cleric, Ranger//Oracle or somesuch. Also there is the possibility of Bard//Cleric...

[Krazzman]

Yesterday was fun. The other players finished their chars or at least concepts.

We now have a Death* Druid//Ranger, a BoltAce//Inquisitor and a Fighter//Bard(that one only has the concept so far).
*The Phantom is not gained, instead he got access to the Soul Subdomain but retains Wildshape
This means I get to go with the uMonk//Oracle.

I've got the following now:

Stats priorities: Str 18, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 20(18+2)
Race: Half-Elf, +2 Cha.
Classes: Scale Fist uMonk//Oracle of Lore
Revelation: Sidestep Secret
Curse: Haunted
Feats: Skill Focus(Knowledge:Planes/Arcane)[R], Dragon Style[Monk 1], Stunning Fist[Monk 1], Unarmed Strike[Monk 1], Improved Initiative/Toughness?[Level 1]
Special Abilities: Flurry of Blows
Saves: Fort: 5, Ref: 2, Will: 3.
Spells: 0th: Mage Hand[haunted], Ghost Sound[haunted], Create Water, Light, Detect Magic, Read Magic(?)/Purify Food and Drink
1st: Cure Light Wounds[bonus], Shield of Faith, Magic Weapon.
Skillpoints: 4(base)+2+1(trait: Prodigy[giving +1/+1 for favoured class])+1(Favoured Class Monk)+1(Favoured Class Oracle: Multitalented) = 9
HP: 8+3+1(trait) = 12
Traits: Prodigy, Pugnacious (probably)

Further Revelations:
3rd: Lore Keeper
7th: Mental Acuity
11th: Arcane Archivist
15th: Spontaneous Symbology

Any feat recommendations?

[Geddy2112]

That's a really stacked party! You might want to shift your skill focus:knowledge into something a bit more esoteric, as the bard or inquisitor might cover planar or arcana.

Since you can cast, improved initiative is good. That said, the druid is a full caster too, and they can throw down some seriously nasty spells too. You also have no dex bonus meaning you will still only have a +4. Now, normally it is always best to go first, but in your case, you might want to skip it and intentionally let others go first. Since your monk AC still applies when you are flat footed, you are not a total sitting duck. Likewise, you are not going to be throwing any critical party buffs right away-the bard will have haste before you have blessings of fervor, but you can be a bit more reactionary with things like dispel magic, healing, etc. Likewise, you can also just go monk and beat the crap out of somebody.

Toughness is not all that good, unless you go the familiar route because it helps your familiar's HP as well. I would suggest it if you plan on going eldritch heritage, which is mechanically your most powerful option for feats.
Extra revelation is usually worth a feat, but if the campaign goes to 20 you don't want to drown in all the crap revelations of your mystery. If you want, you can use feats to get the dragon style feats early instead of waiting for them as a bonus.

I suggest the automatic writing revelation once you can use it to commune. Having a free commune each day is VERY powerful. I would not take arcane archivist, as it requires you to find spellbooks and then it destroys the spell to use it. You won't be that hard up for arcane magic, and if you are get scrolls and use magic device.

[Krazzman]

Player four went away from going Fighter//Bard, hasn't said what he wants to do next, though.

With your advice:

Stats priorities: Str 18, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 20(18+2)
Race: Half-Elf, +2 Cha.
Classes: Scale Fist uMonk//Oracle of Lore
Revelation: Sidestep Secret
Curse: Haunted
Feats: Skill Focus(Knowledge:Planes/Arcane)[R], Dragon Style[Monk 1], Stunning Fist[Monk 1], Unarmed Strike[Monk 1], Improved Initiative/[Level 1]
Special Abilities: Flurry of Blows
Saves: Fort: 5, Ref: 2, Will: 3.
Spells: 0th: Mage Hand[haunted], Ghost Sound[haunted], Create Water, Light, Detect Magic, Read Magic(?)/Purify Food and Drink
1st: Cure Light Wounds[bonus], Shield of Faith, Magic Weapon.
Skillpoints: 4(base)+2+1(trait: Prodigy[giving +1/+1 for favoured class])+1(Favoured Class Monk)+1(Favoured Class Oracle: Multitalented) = 9
HP: 8+3+1(trait) = 12
Traits: Prodigy, Pugnacious (probably)
Attack: Unarmed Strike: +5 (1d6+6), Flurry +5/+5 (1d6+6, 1d6+4)

Further Revelations:
3rd: Lore Keeper
5th: Automatic Writing (Extra Revelation)
7th: Mental Acuity
11th: Spontaneous Symbology
15th: Focused Trance

Later Feats:
2nd(Monk): ???
3rd: Eldritch Heritage Arcane
5th: Extra Revelation
6th(Monk): Dragon Ferocity
7th: Improved Familiar/Craft?
9th: Elemental Fist(Cold)/Improved Familiar
10th(Monk): Dragon Roar

After that I don't have a clue for feats.


That's a really stacked party! You might want to shift your skill focus:knowledge into something a bit more esoteric, as the bard or inquisitor might cover planar or arcana.

Since you can cast, improved initiative is good. That said, the druid is a full caster too, and they can throw down some seriously nasty spells too. You also have no dex bonus meaning you will still only have a +4. Now, normally it is always best to go first, but in your case, you might want to skip it and intentionally let others go first. Since your monk AC still applies when you are flat footed, you are not a total sitting duck. Likewise, you are not going to be throwing any critical party buffs right away-the bard will have haste before you have blessings of fervor, but you can be a bit more reactionary with things like dispel magic, healing, etc. Likewise, you can also just go monk and beat the crap out of somebody.

Toughness is not all that good, unless you go the familiar route because it helps your familiar's HP as well. I would suggest it if you plan on going eldritch heritage, which is mechanically your most powerful option for feats.
Extra revelation is usually worth a feat, but if the campaign goes to 20 you don't want to drown in all the crap revelations of your mystery. If you want, you can use feats to get the dragon style feats early instead of waiting for them as a bonus.

I suggest the automatic writing revelation once you can use it to commune. Having a free commune each day is VERY powerful. I would not take arcane archivist, as it requires you to find spellbooks and then it destroys the spell to use it. You won't be that hard up for arcane magic, and if you are get scrolls and use magic device.

I haven't really read Arcane Archivist just saw sorc/wiz spells and went for it... Which "Improved" Familiar and normal Familiar would you recommend for a Lawful Neutral char though? Or Lawful Good.
If I don't use my Skill Focus for one of the big 4 knowledges (Arcane, Planes, Religion, Nature if I am not mistaken) or any knowledge at all it won't work for the Eldritch Heritage, right? And if I won't go for EH it I don't have a clue what feats to get else. Not even so sure about Metamagic ones...

[Geddy2112]

To get eldritch heritage: arcane, you have to use your skill focus in any knowledge, since the arcane bloodline gives any knowledge of the player's choice as a class skill.
You will be 2 levels behind on eldritch heritage so you will need the boon companion feat to get your familiar up to your level. The good improved familiars require Caster level 7, so you would need boon companion or wait till 9th level.
For your build(and for an LN/LG caster) I suggest the Cassisian angel. The harbinger archon and arbiter inevitable are also good. The big sellers on your familiar are 1. it can fly 2. it can speak 3. it can cast commune once a week as an SLA, and 4. Can get hands to Use magic devices. The cassisian angel does all of these things, but of particular note for your build is that they remember EVERYTHING they have ever seen or heard. They can be instructed to recall any event, and if you want they can also scrub their own memories. Since you are looking for knowledge, they are walking history books and a good repository.

For your 2nd level monk bonus feat, deflect arrows or dodge are probably your best bets.

For metamagic, late game(like level 18) quicken spell is pretty dang useful. I personally like extend spell so you can make buffs become an all day thing. It depends on what kind of spells you are casting and why.

[Krazzman]

To get eldritch heritage: arcane, you have to use your skill focus in any knowledge, since the arcane bloodline gives any knowledge of the player's choice as a class skill.
You will be 2 levels behind on eldritch heritage so you will need the boon companion feat to get your familiar up to your level. The good improved familiars require Caster level 7, so you would need boon companion or wait till 9th level.
For your build(and for an LN/LG caster) I suggest the Cassisian angel. The harbinger archon and arbiter inevitable are also good. The big sellers on your familiar are 1. it can fly 2. it can speak 3. it can cast commune once a week as an SLA, and 4. Can get hands to Use magic devices. The cassisian angel does all of these things, but of particular note for your build is that they remember EVERYTHING they have ever seen or heard. They can be instructed to recall any event, and if you want they can also scrub their own memories. Since you are looking for knowledge, they are walking history books and a good repository.

They seem cool... albeit it can come of a bit like... going power rangers with the Helm form and such... but else they are quite cool.


For your 2nd level monk bonus feat, deflect arrows or dodge are probably your best bets.

For metamagic, late game(like level 18) quicken spell is pretty dang useful. I personally like extend spell so you can make buffs become an all day thing. It depends on what kind of spells you are casting and why.

Deflect Arrows will be a sure NOPE to the first ranged attack every round... while dodge works always.
About spells... last time I played anything casting was a Sage Bloodlined Sorcerer that was built for support and then had to choose blasting spells... as such my experience with them is not very good, any advice helps dearly (as such I probably will take Extend Spell sooner or later).

[Geddy2112]

They seem cool... albeit it can come of a bit like... going power rangers with the Helm form and such... but else they are quite cool.
I personally like the idea of wearing my familiar as a hat. You can make it take one of its other forms if you want to make it more normal. Fluffwise they find it strange to be in their other forms, but they can learn to live with it.



Deflect Arrows will be a sure NOPE to the first ranged attack every round... while dodge works always.
About spells... last time I played anything casting was a Sage Bloodlined Sorcerer that was built for support and then had to choose blasting spells... as such my experience with them is not very good, any advice helps dearly (as such I probably will take Extend Spell sooner or later).
If you are expecting combat with a lot of humanoids, deflect arrows is a better feat. In any world where guns are prevalent it is a must have. Otherwise, take dodge. neither are great, but the other low level monk bonus feats are worthless for your build.

I strongly suggest magic vestment-with extend spell, it is an all day ability and saves you on buying bracers of armor. You don't have armor as a monk, so it is a big help. Combined with shield of faith and your double CHA to AC you are going to be very stocky. Your mystery will cover your lore seeking fluff spells, so you can use your limited spells known to get the meat and potatoes. Protection from evil is a key 1st level spell, grab grace and silence from second level, paragon surge is solid at 3rd level even since the nerf it got, and magic vestment is also 3rd. Blessings of fervor is later than haste at 4th level but good if the bard did not grab it, and it has some slightly different/better uses. Greater dispel magic is good for 6th level, although the druid and bard might cover this. You will have all of the symbol spells from your mystery by this level as well. Since you are monk gestalt, an antimagic field on you could be very useful.
Summoning spells are arguably the most powerful, and you could take a summon monster of each level, but it would eat up a lot of your spells known.

There are a bazillion cleric/oracle guides on the internet, so long as you have 1-2 of the best spells at each level, you can pick and choose. With the monk gestalt, you can take a lot of buff spells and go for straight combat, or sit back and blast/summon/control and be virtually untouchable.

[Krazzman]

I personally like the idea of wearing my familiar as a hat. You can make it take one of its other forms if you want to make it more normal. Fluffwise they find it strange to be in their other forms, but they can learn to live with it.



If you are expecting combat with a lot of humanoids, deflect arrows is a better feat. In any world where guns are prevalent it is a must have. Otherwise, take dodge. neither are great, but the other low level monk bonus feats are worthless for your build.

I strongly suggest magic vestment-with extend spell, it is an all day ability and saves you on buying bracers of armor. You don't have armor as a monk, so it is a big help. Combined with shield of faith and your double CHA to AC you are going to be very stocky. Your mystery will cover your lore seeking fluff spells, so you can use your limited spells known to get the meat and potatoes. Protection from evil is a key 1st level spell, grab grace and silence from second level, paragon surge is solid at 3rd level even since the nerf it got, and magic vestment is also 3rd. Blessings of fervor is later than haste at 4th level but good if the bard did not grab it, and it has some slightly different/better uses. Greater dispel magic is good for 6th level, although the druid and bard might cover this. You will have all of the symbol spells from your mystery by this level as well. Since you are monk gestalt, an antimagic field on you could be very useful.
Summoning spells are arguably the most powerful, and you could take a summon monster of each level, but it would eat up a lot of your spells known.

There are a bazillion cleric/oracle guides on the internet, so long as you have 1-2 of the best spells at each level, you can pick and choose. With the monk gestalt, you can take a lot of buff spells and go for straight combat, or sit back and blast/summon/control and be virtually untouchable.

I will certainly go for that angel now... and due to no guns: Dodge.

Trading Magic Weapon for Protection from Evil as well.

Another thought that ocurred to me was the Enlightened Philosopher (to grab Linguistic) and currently debating 16 Con and 14 Int or 14 Con and 16 Int. 12HP and 9 SP or 11HP and 10SP...