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InaVegt
2007-07-13, 07:31 AM
I had this idea just now, if life insurance existed in D&D, how would it work?

I somehow envision the following possibilities:

Least insurance: just pays a small amount of cash when you die.
Lesser insurance: pays for a raise dead spell when you die, if raise dead won't work a predetermined amount of cash is paid.
Greater insurance: as lesser insurance but with resurrection if raise won't work and larger amount of cash if neither works.
Superior insurance: as lesser, except with true resurrection and very large amount of cash.

And perhaps a different one for reincarnate (which would be the cheapest life returning one)

Yuki Akuma
2007-07-13, 07:33 AM
Yeah, anyone selling that would definitely be getting a visit from an Inevitable or three.

Swooper
2007-07-13, 08:02 AM
Anachronism kills atmosphere. Not recommended. Also, as previous poster said... Inevitables. Or something worse. I doubt the Daemon Lords of the Abyss will be pleased when they are repeatedly denied their souls.

Citizen Joe
2007-07-13, 09:00 AM
Well, you'd need to work out the rates. Adventurers would have astronomical rates since they risk their lives every day. There would be some death benefits as defined by the contract. So if you had a million gp life insurance policy, the company would go to great lengths to keep you alive, so that they wouldn't have to pay out. They might have exclusions like if you become undead and their lawyers would try to wiggle out by defining life in some manner that would alleviate the payout.

NerfTW
2007-07-13, 09:54 AM
Considering life insurance is intended to keep your family from going bankrupt while they try to replace your lost income, I don't think adventurers would really need it, nor would they be able to get it, given thier choice of career.

What you're describing would be more like health insurance. Considering what would be required (a ressurection spell), I don't think it would be worth it in the first place. Insurance works by gaining more in what the clents are paying than what they give out. An insurance policy that allows that would be astronomically expensive.

Irenaeus
2007-07-13, 10:10 AM
Anachronism kills atmosphere. Not recommended. Also, as previous poster said... Inevitables. Or something worse. I doubt the Daemon Lords of the Abyss will be pleased when they are repeatedly denied their souls.

Anachronism? Insurance has existed in different forms for several thousand years. I would rather say that a everyday attitude to returning the dead to life destroys atmosphere.

Oh, and I agree with any poster claiming that nobosy in their right mind would insure an adventurer for anything. The best alternative would probably be for a party to reserve a share of the treasure especially for ressurections.

Kurald Galain
2007-07-13, 10:13 AM
Read The Colour Of Magic for what effects it could plausibly have on a semi-medieval setting.

Ethdred
2007-07-13, 10:29 AM
Read The Colour Of Magic for what effects it could plausibly have on a semi-medieval setting.

Actually, just read The Colour of Magic.

Irenaeus
2007-07-13, 11:19 AM
Read The Colour Of Magic for what effects it could plausibly have on a semi-medieval setting.

I strongly object to the use of the word "plausibly" in this sentence. The book is good, though.

EvilJames
2007-07-13, 11:30 AM
This is kind of like an old joke amongst my group except we would just theorize what the insurance rates would be for wizards.
For instance Invokers and conjurers would have very high rates and Abjurers low rates. Necromancers and Illusionist would also have some high rates due to high fraud potential
Which brings up another question, would you still be able to collect on life insurance if you became a lich?

thehothead
2007-07-13, 01:30 PM
And would you collect it every time you died?

SITB
2007-07-13, 01:38 PM
"I died, now give me a lot of money."
"I'm gonna need some idenfication on this son."
"Why?"
"For one thing you are still alive."

...

"See? I died. Now give me a lot of money."

Ten meta-points to whoever get the refrence.

As aside, why not make it only for adventurers? Make it that somebody procure the body of the client the firm will resurrection him.

Yuki Akuma
2007-07-13, 01:40 PM
"I died, now give me a lot of money."
"I'm gonna need some idenfication on this son."
"Why?"
"For one thing you are still alive."

...

"See? I died. Now give me a lot of money."

Ten meta-points to whoever get the refrence.

As aside, why not make it only for adventurers? Make it that somebody procure the body of the client the firm will resurrection him.

...Planescape: Torment, maybe?

Arbitrarity
2007-07-13, 01:41 PM
Adventurers would probably get charged enough to pay for their deaths every 2 or 3 years or so. Maybe less, depending on track record. Probably more.

EDIT: That's a monkey island reference. You give Stan the death certificate. From curse of monkey island.

bosssmiley
2007-07-13, 01:58 PM
I had this idea just now, if life insurance existed in D&D, how would it work?

Errrr, you never read "Colour of Magic" (as Kurald suggests above) Gez'? The first attempt to introduce in-sewer-ants into a fantasy setting got most of Ankh-Morpork burnt down! Let's just not tempt fate, eh. :smallwink:

General insurance in the D&D world in the form we in the post-Lloyds of London world know it - unlikely. How could anyone get simple 'fire, flood + act of god 'cover in a world where fire can come from giant flying reptiles or annoyed wizards, flooding can come from the Sahuagin, Marids, water elementals or carelessly handled decanters of endless water, and where clerics can request acts of god(s) almost at will. Oh, and insurance doesn't pay out in the event of a war (what, you think goblin raids, orcish hordes and Witchking armies count as petty crime?).

Plimsole line on my ship? I'm a bit more worried about the Krakens thanks.

As for life insurance for adventurers. You know how premiums get higher for higher risk occupations...

Insurance broker: "And what do you do for a living Mister Thorgrim Bloodaxe?"
Thorgrim: "I break into magically trapped, structurally unsafe ancient tombs and fortresses miles from civilisation, wreck the place, kill the inhabitants and steal their loot, and all against a background of environmental hazards that would make you wet yourself in fear."
Insurance broker: "I see. Please don't let the door hit you on the way out. Good day."

...yeah. No sale. :smalleek:

Emperor Tippy
2007-07-13, 02:26 PM
Thats why you get the party face to get the contracts.




Insurance broker: "And what do you do for a living Mister Thorgrim Bloodaxe?"
Thorgrim: "I break into magically trapped, structurally unsafe ancient tombs and fortresses miles from civilisation, wreck the place, kill the inhabitants and steal their loot, and all against a background of environmental hazards that would make you wet yourself in fear."
Insurance broker: "I see. Please don't let the door hit you on the way out. Good day."

Insurance broker: "And what do you do for a living Mister Thorgrim Bloodaxe?"
Thorgrim: "I enter magically secured buildings to do an appraisal of their structural integrity. I then solve any ongoing problems with the building or its inhabitants and insure that I am properly compensated for my work.

I never lied but it conveys a completely different job than adventurer.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-13, 02:30 PM
Sounds like my bard. Although it also sounds like a building inspector.

elliott20
2007-07-13, 02:34 PM
Thats why you get the party face to get the contracts.





Insurance broker: "And what do you do for a living Mister Thorgrim Bloodaxe?"
Thorgrim: "I enter magically secured buildings to do an appraisal of their structural integrity. I then solve any ongoing problems with the building or its inhabitants and insure that I am properly compensated for my work.

I never lied but it conveys a completely different job than adventurer.

for some reason, I can totally see Thog saying that, but delivering it all in Thog speech, of course.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-13, 02:40 PM
:thog: Thog enter magic buildings, look at how strong building is. Thog "fix" people inside and building. Then ice cream! Thog find prisons not strong at all.

Indon
2007-07-13, 02:40 PM
Thats why you get the party face to get the contracts.


My last rogue described himself as a "Security Consultant", in that the party consulted with him to defeat security...

elliott20
2007-07-13, 02:42 PM
My last rogue described himself as a "Security Consultant", in that the party consulted with him to defeat security...

kinda like "wealth redistribution specialist" huh?

Roderick_BR
2007-07-13, 03:00 PM
How about rescue squads with diviners to find out when you are dying, teleporters to pick you up, and clerics to patch you up?
If you ever played ShadowRun, you'll know where I'm coming from :smallwink:

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-13, 03:39 PM
It makes sense for a high level cleric or church or druid who is capable of casting the spell to issue some kind of life insurance service depending on the religious philosphy of the church and the being getting raised. In game mechanically you have the Wayfarer PRC for Sorcerers, Wizards and the odd other teleporters.

IMO it works best for a large primary religious organization or a few organized dominant mainstream religious movements with lots of temples and high level clergy distributed well over the campaign setting or the way the Living Greyhawk had the minor religious orders affiliated to form a religious association providing many of the same services of the larger faiths.

Powerful independent clergy of minor and obscure religions (Demi/Hearth Powers) would probably be willing to compete against the big churches and offer some of the best deals like an open ended party Quest contract when needed in the future.

Surprisingly a cleric of Wee Jas normally will not unless it is in the interest of the church while most clerics of a Neutral Goddess of Wealth like Waukeen would as long as they have the gold to pay for it and are not enemies or heretics of the faith? Of course even then their is the stickler your party is good and the only cleric capable of casting the spell is of an opposed alignment NE. He says he cast the spell but you didn't come back for whatever reason as that is one of the things you are supposed to know the alignment of the being bringing you back to life as it can not be done against your will. Did he lie and pocket the funds or close out your policy or did he cast the spell and the good person chose to not come back.

How much cheaper than the standard life returning spells is the life insurance? Why would PCs prepay if there is no real benefit gained? The PCs could make their own policy by simply setting aside the funds with a moneylender who will give them a modest interest rate and return on their deposited funds which will help them grow over time.

What is the price difference for individuals, families and group policies like adventuring groups?

What are prices for various religions? I normally assume the PCs are being raised by a cleric of the same or strongly allied faith for the standard priced raising of the dead. (Opposed religions won't normally resurrect beings of the other even for lots of monetary wealth)

Is their a Quest discount? (The DM gets to send your group on that really nasty adventure he has and not hold back quite so much after all he is raising the PC for free. If he kills off a PC on the Quest he gets to do it again sending the PCs on another Quest.)

How much is the premium for a retrieval in the event of a Total Party Kill? Most adventurers don't die in town close to the life insurance office. Bigger churches would probably have more offices. Smaller churches might be local affairs (20 mile radius or so).

What is the individual class rate? Which class pays the worst rate and which class gets the best rate?

Fighters who are front line combatants? The cleric or wizard who generally provide support?

P.S. A sorcerer or wizard or cleric who can cast Summon Monster 7 (Thinking scroll here for 2,275 GP from the DMG for lower level casters) or greater can raise the dead by summoning a Movanic Deva from the Fiend Folio (part of the monster description) for free. So they would probably be affiliated with the religious organizations. A neat bennie is that a Movanic Deva can do some healing with Cure Serious to the PC or to other beings and do other things like Commune or remove disease from other beings say it was summoned in or adjacent to a healing ward.

After level 5 with standard DMG wealth having an emergency Summon Monster 7 scroll is a good addition to the adventuring party reserve magic pool for that emergency Raise Dead or Commune, minor healing and other spells. For groups level 9+ it's nice for raising the cleric who bites it and normally does the raising. The material component of the Raise Dead spell is a 5,000 GP or greater diamond which you could buy two Summon Monster 7 scrolls for with a little left over for other goodies.

A cleric casting Lesser Planar Ally and calling a Movanic Deva can raise the dead.

If if I gave it more thought I'm sure I could think of other things.

The Stronghold builder's Guidebook had Biers of Resurrection and Eberron had something similar with the Healing House.

Hranat
2007-07-13, 03:52 PM
I must say... this is a very easy way to con an adventuring party... make each of them pay you thousands, and then disappear for a life of luxury on a distant continent... are there adventurers out there stupid enough to trust an offer like that? no surprise you need a life insurance then, fools!

Citizen Joe
2007-07-13, 03:56 PM
There's two things happening here...

First there's life insurance: If you die someone gets a load of cash. We don't want to pay out so we'll do what we can to make it so you aren't dead (or better yet, you've voided your policy).

Then you've got health insurance: If you get hurt, sick, drained, whatever, the company will pay for the curatives... maybe even some living expenses. Lets say you get beat up bad 50 total hp of damage, and you go to the insurance company with a claim. They'll say ok, here's 25 gold for room and board for 5 days while you rest to get it back. They won't necessarilly fork out healing potions at 50 gp a pop. If you get hit with negative levels, those they might cash out for, since an actual loss is harder to recover. Same with diseases and such.

Most likely, you'll have closer to a workman's comp package for the group. As a small group, you'll pay through the nose. Large organizations like armies and guilds can get better rates.

Now, you can also file a claim against lost revenue (a quest you can't complete) until you get healed. In that case, the insurance will fork over the curatives if its less than your proposed revenue losses.

Most of these insurances have deductables and an upper cap on expenses plus a combined total expense. So, like a two million gp liability policy would have a 1000 gp deductable and a single event cap at 500,000 gp. That would run about 1600 gp per year and up... WAY up! depending on your risk analysis.

de-trick
2007-07-13, 03:58 PM
sign everone of my characters up for the greater package

Arbitrarity
2007-07-13, 04:22 PM
P.S. A sorcerer or wizard who can cast Summon Monster 7 (Thinking scroll here for 2,275 GP from the DMG for lower level casters) or greater can raise the dead by summoning a Movanic Deva from the Fiend Folio (part of the monster description) for free. So they would probably be affiliated with the religious organizations.


IIRC, spell like abilities have the same casting time as their normal counterparts, and summon monster 7 doesn't do 10 minutes.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-13, 04:34 PM
IIRC, spell like abilities have the same casting time as their normal counterparts, and summon monster 7 doesn't do 10 minutes.

My PHB says the Raise Dead casting time is 1 minute which is 10 rounds. (Resurrection a level 7 spell takes 10 minutes but the Movanic Deva can only Raise Dead as a spell-like ability)

Normally you need to be a CL 13 minimum to cast the spell which is normally the minimum the scroll is scribed for. That means normally you have the Movanic Deva summoned for 13 rounds or more and can have it raise dead or commune plus do a few other things.

Unless I am mistaken thought I saw a Wizards/Sage ruling that if a spellcaster PC has a Meta Feat he can apply the effects to a magic item which could be pretty sweet for a low level spellcaster with the Extend Spell Feat in this type of situation or the Persisted Extend.

Cryopyre
2007-07-13, 04:54 PM
Here's an idea, what if there was a group of people who you paid money to in order to pay for resurrection and a little bit more (cost of chosen ressurection+10%). Then in return for their service they would ask you to seek out one of their clients dead bodies to return to them for a ressurection, it would make for a good investment, and would also make for an adventure, anyone follow?

That way if your party wipes it isn't the end, instead you get ressurected by your company.

Cryopyre
2007-07-13, 05:02 PM
The existence of magic really does bring about a lot of possibilities never outlined in the DM's guide, like a possible wizard's guild that does teleporting for a fee to certain telestations or a group of druids controlling weather for farmers for a price.

Of course too much of this brings about the Anachronism, like a system of magic mirrors for the internet and and television etc. but such is the problem of magic.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-13, 05:11 PM
The existence of magic really does bring about a lot of possibilities never outlined in the DM's guide, like a possible wizard's guild that does teleporting for a fee to certain telestations or a group of druids controlling weather for farmers for a price.

Of course too much of this brings about the Anachronism, like a system of magic mirrors for the internet and and television etc. but such is the problem of magic.

Kinda sounds like the Eberron campaign setting or Faerun with bunches of portals that are rarely utilized to facilitate things like trade.

bosssmiley
2007-07-14, 08:22 AM
Thats why you get the party face to get the contracts.

Insurance broker: "And what do you do for a living Mister Thorgrim Bloodaxe?"
Thorgrim: "I enter magically secured buildings to do an appraisal of their structural integrity. I then solve any ongoing problems with the building or its inhabitants and insure that I am properly compensated for my work.

I never lied but it conveys a completely different job than adventurer.

:smallconfused: ... :smallamused: ... :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

I bow in the presence of a master. :smallcool: