Craziest way to protect a scroll case?

[killem2]

So my player's have a bit of a problem with dying. It of course has taken a toll on their bank account and time. In my next encounter I would like to include a small gimme of a scroll case with 4x Raise Dead scrolls (cl 10)

What I started with, was a Adamatine Scroll case, with an arcane lock (cl10) on a superior Adamatine Lock (so dc 50).

However, the case has been shrunk using Permanent [I]Shink Item[I] twice (as per what the group of baddies who have this scroll case has paid for).

So I imagine This when shrunk by command word it is the size of a tic tac or gel capsule for drugs. I don't want it to be harmful to the party to open just difficult. :)

There is a key. It just happens to be in a portable hole, closed on top of the rafter in the INN in which this group stays at.

[Cirtona Pox]

However, the case has been shrunk using Permanent [I]Shink Item[I] twice.

They typically don't stack but hey... you're the DM.


So I imagine This when shrunk by command word it is the size of a tic tac or gel capsule for drugs. I don't want it to be harmful to the party to open just difficult. :)

You want hard to open... Sovereign Glue it shut. They will need to go on a quest to get Universal Solvent.


There is a key. It just happens to be in a portable hole, closed on top of the rafter in the INN in which this group stays at.

Riiiiiight. Does the mage in the party do random Detect Magic sweeps of the places your PC's stay? I guess they get a portable hole out of it but if the party has the kind of adventuring savvy that gets themselves killed regularly then they will probably just throw it in a bag of holding and the scrolls will be lost anyway.

That having been said. You could offer frequent flyer rates at the local temple instead.

[exelsisxax]

So my player's have a bit of a problem with dying. It of course has taken a toll on their bank account and time. In my next encounter I would like to include a small gimme of a scroll case with 4x Raise Dead scrolls (cl 10)

What I started with, was a Adamatine Scroll case, with an arcane lock (cl10) on a superior Adamatine Lock (so dc 50).

However, the case has been shrunk using Permanent [I]Shink Item[I] twice (as per what the group of baddies who have this scroll case has paid for).

So I imagine This when shrunk by command word it is the size of a tic tac or gel capsule for drugs. I don't want it to be harmful to the party to open just difficult. :)

There is a key. It just happens to be in a portable hole, closed on top of the rafter in the INN in which this group stays at.

Does the problem of your players dying have anything to do with the appearance that your DMing style as labyrinthine and impervious to everything except the most extreme batman logic?

[killem2]

Does the problem of your players dying have anything to do with the appearance that your DMing style as labyrinthine and impervious to everything except the most extreme batman logic?

No, not at all. It's a premade adventure. Part of it was my choice to keep them on slow progession (whih I have now changed to fast). But We have a rogue that gets himself into a lot of trouble ,and the last death before that was an Orc who tried to take on a gallows zombie tree head to head.

before that we had a Trox and Ogre, one was under -1, while the other was hit by a hold person. Coup de grace on the held one, and used cleave on the -1 being.


They typically don't stack but hey... you're the DM.

Maybe I misread the spell I thought there was somethign about being cast by the same caster blah blah, no big deal I can change that.




You want hard to open... Sovereign Glue it shut. They will need to go on a quest to get Universal Solvent.

Interesting, what book is that in?



Riiiiiight. Does the mage in the party do random Detect Magic sweeps of the places your PC's stay? I guess they get a portable hole out of it but if the party has the kind of adventuring savvy that gets themselves killed regularly then they will probably just throw it in a bag of holding and the scrolls will be lost anyway.

If they had a mage, probably. They do have a cleric. If they think forward enough to check where those enemies were staying.



That having been said. You could offer frequent flyer rates at the local temple instead.

No can do. They are evil, and this is a very mitra loving place (way of the wicked)

[Exocist]

Does the problem of your players dying have anything to do with the appearance that your DMing style as labyrinthine and impervious to everything except the most extreme batman logic?

This might just be a case of DM wanting to make everything a giant puzzle when the players just want to H&S or just play a game...

[Exocist]

No can do. They are evil, and this is a very mitra loving place (way of the wicked)

Give them frequent flyer rates at the local evil temple that raises them as sentient zombies?

[Incorrect]

Adamantine puzzlebox
Hardness 28. HP: 50. (incl. the spell Hardening)
Lead lining
Magic aura as non-magical

First, 1 Superior lock (+Arcane lock) = DC:50, to access the puzzle
Second, INT DC:23, or Disable Device DC: 50, to solve the puzzle and open the box

Traps:
Illusory Script inside, Will:23, Suggestion: "Lay down the puzzlebox and leave,"
Sepia Snake Sigil on inside, Will:23 or "trapped"

[EldritchWeaver]

What kind of level is your group, that you expect them to be able to beat a DC 50? Even optimized for this, I don't think that can be before level 10.

[Fizban]

Sovereign Gluing it shut is actually quite nice, keeps anyone without the solvent on hand from opening it but isn't actually expensive or difficult to deal with if you know what you're doing.

Alternatively, it's a lot easier to break adamantine than most people realize. You only need to beat hardness 20, which can be done by any character with a decent amount of strength and/or Power Attack with some BAB: if they're high enough level to afford being raised even once, they're high enough level to crack adamantine without without a drop of magic. Especially if they realize this trick: drop it. Fall damage from 200' is 20d6. That's 70 damage (not my trick though, got it from a module). Unless you fiat it away of course, but while the scroll can survive because paper deforms, adamantine is rigid and can shatter.

As for finding it with Detect Magic, there is no reason a Cleric shouldn't be doing that. Clerics get Detect Magic same as anyone else and actually have fewer other cantrips worth preparing.

Now if you want something to actually stay unreachable, something I put together to protect an artifact once: take a bag of holding or handy haversack and upgrade it to include a built in trap that holes the bag if anyone other than the creator opens it (magic can apparently just tell). Since the trap is part of the bag, it can't be suppressed via dispel without closing off the extradimensional space, and since disabling permanent magic traps works the same as suppressing them via dispel magic, you can't disable it either. The trap uses Acid Splash, which is a conjuration so it doesn't look any different on Detect Magic (unless they get the full identify via Rules Compendium). Then I threw on a Glyph Seal and surprise Explosive Runes taped to the inside of the bag, so anyone opening the bag with their eyes open would immediately destroy the bag (and you can't get to the runes without opening it and seeing them).

But if you actually want the players to get the scrolls you shouldn't actually be making them hard to get. Or instead of those you could let them start dealing with Reincarnate to avoid running out of money. Though that also begs the question of how they're supposed to complete the module when they couldn't survive at full level and are now multiple levels and tens of thousands of gp behind after multiple deaths.

[killem2]

Give them frequent flyer rates at the local evil temple that raises them as sentient zombies?


They ARE in the cloest thing to an evil temple and it's been shut down for almost a century. They are bringing it back to life, this land mass they are on, has purged almost all knowing of any non-mitra temples and most certainly if they are evil. I could hand wave it but it would be a direct slap in the face to the story line.



Adamantine puzzlebox
Hardness 28. HP: 50. (incl. the spell Hardening)
Lead lining
Magic aura as non-magical

First, 1 Superior lock (+Arcane lock) = DC:50, to access the puzzle
Second, INT DC:23, or Disable Device DC: 50, to solve the puzzle and open the box

Traps:
Illusory Script inside, Will:23, Suggestion: "Lay down the puzzlebox and leave,"
Sepia Snake Sigil on inside, Will:23 or "trapped"

Interesting. I wonder if I could trap it with something like presditation, but it just makes it stink for a few minutes. lol Lots of smoke and mirrors :)


What kind of level is your group, that you expect them to be able to beat a DC 50? Even optimized for this, I don't think that can be before level 10.


They are level 10 now, but I had a decent social experience of keeping them at slow progression. For the first 6-7 levels it create a raw, gritty feeling. It puts the world against them and their team work was better than I have ever seen it. Probably because they knew thier limitations and had to squeeze every bit out. I decided to stop after save or die started happening.


Sovereign Gluing it shut is actually quite nice, keeps anyone without the solvent on hand from opening it but isn't actually expensive or difficult to deal with if you know what you're doing.


I like the concept, but I don't want them having to stop everything to find this solvent. Could be useful for future challanges though thank you!



Alternatively, it's a lot easier to break adamantine than most people realize. You only need to beat hardness 20, which can be done by any character with a decent amount of strength and/or Power Attack with some BAB: if they're high enough level to afford being raised even once, they're high enough level to crack adamantine without without a drop of magic. Especially if they realize this trick: drop it. Fall damage from 200' is 20d6. That's 70 damage (not my trick though, got it from a module). Unless you fiat it away of course, but while the scroll can survive because paper deforms, adamantine is rigid and can shatter.

Very true and I'm ok with them doing this. :) If they think to try it.




As for finding it with Detect Magic, there is no reason a Cleric shouldn't be doing that. Clerics get Detect Magic same as anyone else and actually have fewer other cantrips worth preparing.

Of course and he can. And if they think of that, I'm ok with it. I just didn't want them to open it on the spot. Now they may identity it and that's ok too.



Now if you want something to actually stay unreachable, something I put together to protect an artifact once: take a bag of holding or handy haversack and upgrade it to include a built in trap that holes the bag if anyone other than the creator opens it (magic can apparently just tell). Since the trap is part of the bag, it can't be suppressed via dispel without closing off the extradimensional space, and since disabling permanent magic traps works the same as suppressing them via dispel magic, you can't disable it either. The trap uses Acid Splash, which is a conjuration so it doesn't look any different on Detect Magic (unless they get the full identify via Rules Compendium). Then I threw on a Glyph Seal and surprise Explosive Runes taped to the inside of the bag, so anyone opening the bag with their eyes open would immediately destroy the bag (and you can't get to the runes without opening it and seeing them).

It doesn't need to stay unreachable just slightly not reachable :)



But if you actually want the players to get the scrolls you shouldn't actually be making them hard to get. Or instead of those you could let them start dealing with Reincarnate to avoid running out of money. Though that also begs the question of how they're supposed to complete the module when they couldn't survive at full level and are now multiple levels and tens of thousands of gp behind after multiple deaths.

That's part of what I'm doing. In the next few fights they have I included a lot more wealthy coming up. Because that did have an effect.

[Vogie]

Have the scroll case tattooed on a NPC using Needles of Fleshgraving.

[elonin]

If the scroll case is roughly the size of a tic tac that only makes the task of breaking it without damaging the scroll that much more difficult

[Fizban]

I like the concept, but I don't want them having to stop everything to find this solvent. Could be useful for future challanges though thank you!
Whoever said a "quest" for the solvent was exaggerating. Both the glue and the solvent are standard DMG items, and the solvent is only 50gp. You can buy it literally anywhere except the smallest registered population centers (anywhere with more than 100 people), as long as the DM isn't applying any other restrictions aside from price.

[Firest Kathon]

You want hard to open... Sovereign Glue it shut. They will need to go on a quest to get Universal Solvent.

Interesting, what book is that in?
Those items are from the Core Rule Book. Or on the SRD: Sovereign Glue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#sovereignGlue), Universal Solvent (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#universalSolvent).