Animal companion qualifying for feat "Island of Blades"

[Snig]

Hey guys, i'm still working on my Beast Heart Adept build, and i'm having a hard time figuring out how to qualify my companion to take the island of blades feat?

Any ideas?

[eggynack]

Do you mean the stance island of blade, through martial stance or something? I'm not sure what barrier exists between a companion and that feat. If you require animal companion intelligence of some sort, exalted companion is the classic method.

[Venger]

Hey guys, i'm still working on my Beast Heart Adept build, and i'm having a hard time figuring out how to qualify my companion to take the island of blades feat?

Any ideas?

you will need to have martial study before you can qualify for martial stance to get island of blades (or dip an initiating class) but as long as you have the HD for it, animals can take these feats normally.

if you wanted class levels you'd probably need to awaken or int boost him.

[Snig]

Do you mean the stance island of blade, through martial stance or something? I'm not sure what barrier exists between a companion and that feat. If you require animal companion intelligence of some sort, exalted companion is the classic method.

The animal in question would be a worg with 6 int. Could I just freely take this feat for him? Does it have prerequisites that he'd have to take?

[Venger]

The animal in question would be a worg with 6 int. Could I just freely take this feat for him? Does it have prerequisites that he'd have to take?

worgs are magical beasts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/worg.htm) not animals.

the stance, island of blades itself, has no prereqs. however, if you aren't dipping swordsage, you need to take the feat martial stance. that has the prereq of martial study, another feat. that feat has no prereqs.

worgs have enough hd for 2 feats, so you could nab this and whatever maneuver known through martial study, yes.

[Darrin]

The animal in question would be a worg with 6 int. Could I just freely take this feat for him? Does it have prerequisites that he'd have to take?

Martial Stance has a prereq of knowing one maneuver in the chosen discipline. Martial Study counts for this. It's generally considered that having a high enough Initiator Level is also a prereq, but for 1st level maneuvers/stances, 6 HD should be more than enough (Initiator Level = 1/2 HD). Taking both feats on a 6 HD creature would be entirely within the rules.

The ToB rules do not specify a minimum intelligence to learn maneuvers. Letting animal companions or trained warbeasts take Martial Study/Stance is a "grey area" as far as the rules go... unless the DM has specifically opened up the game to high-end optimization or deliberate cheese, I'd be reluctant to try it.

However, since wargs are intelligent creatures capable of making their own decisions with regards to self-improvement, this should be perfectly acceptable in most games.

[Fouredged Sword]

As a DM I would balk at allowing this for an animal. That said, a Warg is actually pretty smart and I have no issue with such a creature taking the martial study and martial stance feat chain.

Being a shadow hand stance I would also recommend Shadow Blade for dex to damage. Following that up with Gloom Razor would be interesting for free movement with zero AOO's in and around your opponents. The free action move to anywhere adjacent to an opponent you hit while flanking is really powerful, especially if you can carry a rider with you. Your mount will need to have a high tumble check through. A mouthpick weapon is ideal, pick something nice and two handed like a spike chain. I could see an argument for staying with the bite attack for free trips though.

If I remember right knowing a stance counts as knowing a maneuver for prereqs. Otherwise you will need to give your mount gloves of the shadow hand for the extra maneuver to meet Gloomrazor's prereqs.

[Venger]

As a DM I would balk at allowing this for an animal. That said, a Warg is actually pretty smart and I have no issue with such a creature taking the martial study and martial stance feat chain.

Being a shadow hand stance I would also recommend Shadow Blade for dex to damage. Following that up with Gloom Razor would be interesting for free movement with zero AOO's in and around your opponents. The free action move to anywhere adjacent to an opponent you hit while flanking is really powerful, especially if you can carry a rider with you. Your mount will need to have a high tumble check through. A mouthpick weapon is ideal, pick something nice and two handed like a spike chain. I could see an argument for staying with the bite attack for free trips though.

If I remember right knowing a stance counts as knowing a maneuver for prereqs. Otherwise you will need to give your mount gloves of the shadow hand for the extra maneuver to meet Gloomrazor's prereqs.

it's actually "worg" in D&D. "warg" is from lotr.

comments on shadow hand are all good advice. you are correct about stances counting as maneuvers known for reqs, so that will qualify normally.

[eggynack]

The ToB rules do not specify a minimum intelligence to learn maneuvers. Letting animal companions or trained warbeasts take Martial Study/Stance is a "grey area" as far as the rules go... unless the DM has specifically opened up the game to high-end optimization or deliberate cheese, I'd be reluctant to try it.
My general thinking is that an animal can probably take the feat/know the maneuver, but that they'd likely have a lot of difficulty actually using the thing. The vast majority of animal combat maneuvers are autonomous, triggering on normal attacks. The idea that animals can make the decision to use this weird once/encounter ability with likely weird ramifications strikes me as a dubious one. Stances are a bit more plausible, because you only have to make a simple decision with an obvious best choice once, but there's still a meaningful choice there. And, while I'd expect some animals in reality to have the capacity to make these decisions, there just really isn't much intelligence delineation among animals in-system. Like, one could claim apes are likely smart enough, but then you'd have to sit around arguing owl or bat intelligence.

[Venger]

My general thinking is that an animal can probably take the feat/know the maneuver, but that they'd likely have a lot of difficulty actually using the thing. The vast majority of animal combat maneuvers are autonomous, triggering on normal attacks. The idea that animals can make the decision to use this weird once/encounter ability with likely weird ramifications strikes me as a dubious one. Stances are a bit more plausible, because you only have to make a simple decision with an obvious best choice once, but there's still a meaningful choice there. And, while I'd expect some animals in reality to have the capacity to make these decisions, there just really isn't much intelligence delineation among animals in-system. Like, one could claim apes are likely smart enough, but then you'd have to sit around arguing owl or bat intelligence.

Metatextually that's certainly true, but I don't think there are any rules saying animals can't do that

if animals understand grappling, they can understand tob

[eggynack]

Metatextually that's certainly true, but I don't think there are any rules saying animals can't do that

if animals understand grappling, they can understand tob
It's accurate that there aren't rules (to my knowledge), but it's not like you can directly command an animal companion to make use of a maneuver, perhaps short of having speak with animals up. They'd have to decide to use a weird maneuver for themselves, and where's the impetus to do so? With grappling, at least the initial grapple happens automatically.

[Troacctid]

Worgs are intelligent enough that the point is moot. They can use the stance just fine.