Xuldarinar
2016-11-11, 02:48 PM
Giving my own thoughts, and looking for others, on the elder mythos cultist. This is more for organizing my thoughts, and seeing what others have to throw as well.
Replacement/Alteration: Replaces/alters Alignment, Deities, Domains, Spontaneous Casting, Channeling, and... Channeling gained at 5th, 11th, and 19th.
Class Feature Over View:
Alignment: While I think the archetype could get away with Any Chaotic, or even tossing this one out, it makes sense. The dark tapestry is a place largely of chaos afterall. That being said, if you manage to pick one of the few NE deities you can pick from, you could only ever be CE.
Deities: Outer Gods or Great Old Ones. Somewhat of a duh.
Domains: Not overly fond of the limitation, but we 3 to choose from. Combine with our deity lists and the overlaps are as follows. Bare in mind, regardless of patron you can pick from any of the three domains, you just lack subdomain access unless it is offered by them (Info drawn from PathfinderWiki)
--Abhoth: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot) or Madness (Insanity, Nightmare)
--Atlach-Nacha: Madness (Nightmare) or Void (Isolation)
--Azathoth: Chaos (Entropy), Madness (Insanity, Nightmare), or Void (Dark Tapestry, Stars)
--Bokrug: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot)
--Chaugnar Faugn: Chaos (Entropy)
--Cthulhu: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot), Madness (Insanity, Nightmare), or Void (Dark Tapestry, Stars)
--Ghatanothoa: Madness (Insanity, Nigtmare)
--Hastur: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot) or Void (Dark Tapestry, Stars)
--Ithaqua: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot)
--Mhar: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot)
--Mordiggian: Chaos (Entropy)
--Nhimbaloth: Chaos (Entropy) or Void (Dark Tapestry, Isolation)
--Nyarlathotep: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot). *Though form may grant access to madness or void, and any subdomain thereof.
--Orgesh: Chaos (Entropy)
--Rhan-Tegoth: Chaos (Entropy) or Void (Dark Tapestry, Stars)
--Shub-Niggurath: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot) or Void (Dark Tapestry, Stars)
--Tsathoggua: Chaos (Whimsy)
--Tychilarius: Worship as one might, the drowned god doesn't grant domains or spells for that matter.
--Xhamen-Dor: He may be of the tapestry, but he offers none of these.
--Yig: Chaos (Revelry)
--Yog-Sothoth: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot) or Void (Dark Tapestry, Stars)
Forbidden Knowledge: Bonus to certain knowledge checks, doubled if it regards anything connected to the Elder Mythos. Campaign pending, this could be very useful or good only for contemplating your own patron.
Unhinged Mind: Wisdom becomes a dump stat, being replaces entirely with your Charisma, but theres a penalty to will saves and you automatically fail against certain mind-affecting effects. If you were considering taking the Defy Madness trait, do note it is a little less useful here because of this bit. I think it is solid though, allowing you to become SAD when it comes to your class features, and potentially quite powerful if one becomes undead.
Channel the Void: You don't channel positive energy or negative energy. You channel energy that hates flesh and rots it away. Its worth noting it loses a few increases, meaning you'll only get up to 7d6. Additionally, since it isn't positive energy or negative energy we have to consider feats. If it requires Positive or Negative energy, it can't be taken. If it requires a different patron, it can't be taken. If it requires 8d6 or more, it can't be taken. Thankfully, if it describes effects in its description involving negative energy it uses that entry altered to deal with harming those of flesh.
Maddening Gaze: Because what is a servant of creatures drawn from the works of lovecraft without Wisdom damage?
Feats: Outside of channeling, there are a few feats of note available to this archetype.
Dreamed Secrets: Can you say no penalty? Because your reliance on Wisdom is just about gone, the penalty levied by this feat upon failing the Will save is almost completely nullified. Granted, a low Wisdom score would still make this one risky, but each successive failure won't increase the chance of the next one occurring.
Eldritch Heritage: Humor me. You'll already have the Charisma, and this is actually possibly the fastest path for you to gain a familiar if you wanted one. If you don't want one, then you can take the ability normally granted. Taking this for the Aberrant is the obvious choice, but Undead could work with certain deities.
Familiar Bond: If you want a familiar, this is also an option. The benefits here are increased in part by the fact that as an Elder Mythos Cultist your Will defense does have a penalty and the requisite feat to this feat is Iron Will.
Subconscious Usurpation: If you automatically fail against Confusion, learning to compensate is important. This feat lets you make a Will save to take one purely mental action while under certain effects.
Compatible Archetypes: On the surface, there appear to be none. For a while I thought that. That being said, one could be argued for;
Hidden Priest: An elder mythos cultist is relegated to only 1 domain, and while hidden priest does effect domains it doesn't do so in the manner most archetypes do. A 'hidden cultist' would simply choose a single domain for the purpose of determining bonus spells, and both of its powers would be replaced by those offered by the hidden priest archetype.
Variant Multiclassing: There is a class of note I want to invoke in this ordinarily sub-optimal system.
Cavalier: Order of the Star. Upon reaching 7th level, you get to add 1/2 your character level to your cleric level for the purpose of channeling. And since the game calls out advancement as every 2 levels beyond first, we get to have fun. At 20th level, your channeling would be equivalent to 30th level, which means your channeling can reach up to 12d6 (15d6 if not for the fact you loose out on the 5th, 11th, and 19th levels of advancement).
Prestige Classes: There are a few prestige classes of note that are open to an EMC.
Agent of the Grave: If you are an Elder Mythos Cultist of Mordiggian, Nhimbaloth, Xhamen-Dor, or possibly some face of Nyarlathotep, this prestige class isn't off the table. While it does nothing for your channeling, and your channeling certainly can't heal your minions, you gain ways around it and certainly will have the spell access to make such a thing work.
Divine Scion: You become a raving zealot of your patron. Best part? You can select an ability associated with a domain granted by your patron, not bound to the list you are restricted to as an EMC. If you choose to specialize in Chaos or Evil, which all at least offer one or the other, you can effectively undo the penalty you took to your Will by merit of your archetype.
Evangelist/Exalted/Sentinel: While thematically these can all fit, and mechanically Evangelist and Exalted should work just fine, there is just one problem; To my knowledge, no deity an EMC is able to worship possesses any entries associated with Deific Obedience. So, make them up and all should be good to go.
Grey Warden: You get some neat things at the cost of a few levels of casting. In this case I view it as becoming an inquisitor tied to the dark tapestry without taking any levels in inquisitor.
Harrower: Because card readings are crazy in of themselves. Actually it isn't a bad option. Sure your other class features suffer but your casting remains in full force and thats fairly consistent with the other classes mentioned.
Holy Vindicator: With enough levels an elder mythos cultist could easily become a holy vindicator. While they lose out a little in casting, their BAB increases and their channeling doesn't miss a beat. A cultist to an great old one or outer god, drenched in their own blood
Loremaster: Already you revere an entity that knowledge of which could be considered forbidden, so a full casting class that devotes itself to research isn't that crazy of an idea. Taking on the secret of inner strength would undo the Will penalty levied against you. Also, if you didn't have it before, it might be a good way to pick up Aklo.
Mystic Theurge: No more or less of note than other mystic theurges, except i one matter; EMC with an arcane casting class that utilizes Charisma does not have the same problems with MAD that most theurges do. But, to be fair, there are other options if you want a Charisma based divine spell caster.
Replacement/Alteration: Replaces/alters Alignment, Deities, Domains, Spontaneous Casting, Channeling, and... Channeling gained at 5th, 11th, and 19th.
Class Feature Over View:
Alignment: While I think the archetype could get away with Any Chaotic, or even tossing this one out, it makes sense. The dark tapestry is a place largely of chaos afterall. That being said, if you manage to pick one of the few NE deities you can pick from, you could only ever be CE.
Deities: Outer Gods or Great Old Ones. Somewhat of a duh.
Domains: Not overly fond of the limitation, but we 3 to choose from. Combine with our deity lists and the overlaps are as follows. Bare in mind, regardless of patron you can pick from any of the three domains, you just lack subdomain access unless it is offered by them (Info drawn from PathfinderWiki)
--Abhoth: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot) or Madness (Insanity, Nightmare)
--Atlach-Nacha: Madness (Nightmare) or Void (Isolation)
--Azathoth: Chaos (Entropy), Madness (Insanity, Nightmare), or Void (Dark Tapestry, Stars)
--Bokrug: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot)
--Chaugnar Faugn: Chaos (Entropy)
--Cthulhu: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot), Madness (Insanity, Nightmare), or Void (Dark Tapestry, Stars)
--Ghatanothoa: Madness (Insanity, Nigtmare)
--Hastur: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot) or Void (Dark Tapestry, Stars)
--Ithaqua: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot)
--Mhar: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot)
--Mordiggian: Chaos (Entropy)
--Nhimbaloth: Chaos (Entropy) or Void (Dark Tapestry, Isolation)
--Nyarlathotep: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot). *Though form may grant access to madness or void, and any subdomain thereof.
--Orgesh: Chaos (Entropy)
--Rhan-Tegoth: Chaos (Entropy) or Void (Dark Tapestry, Stars)
--Shub-Niggurath: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot) or Void (Dark Tapestry, Stars)
--Tsathoggua: Chaos (Whimsy)
--Tychilarius: Worship as one might, the drowned god doesn't grant domains or spells for that matter.
--Xhamen-Dor: He may be of the tapestry, but he offers none of these.
--Yig: Chaos (Revelry)
--Yog-Sothoth: Chaos (But no subdomains so moot) or Void (Dark Tapestry, Stars)
Forbidden Knowledge: Bonus to certain knowledge checks, doubled if it regards anything connected to the Elder Mythos. Campaign pending, this could be very useful or good only for contemplating your own patron.
Unhinged Mind: Wisdom becomes a dump stat, being replaces entirely with your Charisma, but theres a penalty to will saves and you automatically fail against certain mind-affecting effects. If you were considering taking the Defy Madness trait, do note it is a little less useful here because of this bit. I think it is solid though, allowing you to become SAD when it comes to your class features, and potentially quite powerful if one becomes undead.
Channel the Void: You don't channel positive energy or negative energy. You channel energy that hates flesh and rots it away. Its worth noting it loses a few increases, meaning you'll only get up to 7d6. Additionally, since it isn't positive energy or negative energy we have to consider feats. If it requires Positive or Negative energy, it can't be taken. If it requires a different patron, it can't be taken. If it requires 8d6 or more, it can't be taken. Thankfully, if it describes effects in its description involving negative energy it uses that entry altered to deal with harming those of flesh.
Maddening Gaze: Because what is a servant of creatures drawn from the works of lovecraft without Wisdom damage?
Feats: Outside of channeling, there are a few feats of note available to this archetype.
Dreamed Secrets: Can you say no penalty? Because your reliance on Wisdom is just about gone, the penalty levied by this feat upon failing the Will save is almost completely nullified. Granted, a low Wisdom score would still make this one risky, but each successive failure won't increase the chance of the next one occurring.
Eldritch Heritage: Humor me. You'll already have the Charisma, and this is actually possibly the fastest path for you to gain a familiar if you wanted one. If you don't want one, then you can take the ability normally granted. Taking this for the Aberrant is the obvious choice, but Undead could work with certain deities.
Familiar Bond: If you want a familiar, this is also an option. The benefits here are increased in part by the fact that as an Elder Mythos Cultist your Will defense does have a penalty and the requisite feat to this feat is Iron Will.
Subconscious Usurpation: If you automatically fail against Confusion, learning to compensate is important. This feat lets you make a Will save to take one purely mental action while under certain effects.
Compatible Archetypes: On the surface, there appear to be none. For a while I thought that. That being said, one could be argued for;
Hidden Priest: An elder mythos cultist is relegated to only 1 domain, and while hidden priest does effect domains it doesn't do so in the manner most archetypes do. A 'hidden cultist' would simply choose a single domain for the purpose of determining bonus spells, and both of its powers would be replaced by those offered by the hidden priest archetype.
Variant Multiclassing: There is a class of note I want to invoke in this ordinarily sub-optimal system.
Cavalier: Order of the Star. Upon reaching 7th level, you get to add 1/2 your character level to your cleric level for the purpose of channeling. And since the game calls out advancement as every 2 levels beyond first, we get to have fun. At 20th level, your channeling would be equivalent to 30th level, which means your channeling can reach up to 12d6 (15d6 if not for the fact you loose out on the 5th, 11th, and 19th levels of advancement).
Prestige Classes: There are a few prestige classes of note that are open to an EMC.
Agent of the Grave: If you are an Elder Mythos Cultist of Mordiggian, Nhimbaloth, Xhamen-Dor, or possibly some face of Nyarlathotep, this prestige class isn't off the table. While it does nothing for your channeling, and your channeling certainly can't heal your minions, you gain ways around it and certainly will have the spell access to make such a thing work.
Divine Scion: You become a raving zealot of your patron. Best part? You can select an ability associated with a domain granted by your patron, not bound to the list you are restricted to as an EMC. If you choose to specialize in Chaos or Evil, which all at least offer one or the other, you can effectively undo the penalty you took to your Will by merit of your archetype.
Evangelist/Exalted/Sentinel: While thematically these can all fit, and mechanically Evangelist and Exalted should work just fine, there is just one problem; To my knowledge, no deity an EMC is able to worship possesses any entries associated with Deific Obedience. So, make them up and all should be good to go.
Grey Warden: You get some neat things at the cost of a few levels of casting. In this case I view it as becoming an inquisitor tied to the dark tapestry without taking any levels in inquisitor.
Harrower: Because card readings are crazy in of themselves. Actually it isn't a bad option. Sure your other class features suffer but your casting remains in full force and thats fairly consistent with the other classes mentioned.
Holy Vindicator: With enough levels an elder mythos cultist could easily become a holy vindicator. While they lose out a little in casting, their BAB increases and their channeling doesn't miss a beat. A cultist to an great old one or outer god, drenched in their own blood
Loremaster: Already you revere an entity that knowledge of which could be considered forbidden, so a full casting class that devotes itself to research isn't that crazy of an idea. Taking on the secret of inner strength would undo the Will penalty levied against you. Also, if you didn't have it before, it might be a good way to pick up Aklo.
Mystic Theurge: No more or less of note than other mystic theurges, except i one matter; EMC with an arcane casting class that utilizes Charisma does not have the same problems with MAD that most theurges do. But, to be fair, there are other options if you want a Charisma based divine spell caster.