Would this be a good start to a campaign?

[Vectros]

Hey all, first time poster and first time DM. Starting up a session in a couple of weeks. I have a good idea of where story is going, etc. I'm working on how I want the session to start-I don't really want to do the typical "everyone in a tavern" approach.

So instead, as I am receiving their character sheets, I am coming up with reasons for them to all to go to a particular town. I'll tell the players they are on a wagon together heading towards their destination-giving them a bit of time to talk if they wish and get to know each other.

Once the time feels right, the wagon is ambushed. Roll for initiative, time for a fight!

I think this would make for a more interesting meet n' greet and would give a bit more of a bond for a group that hasn't met-they just helped watch each others backs in a fight. I have a sidequest planned involving bandits which could tie into this ambush as well.

What are your thoughts? Is this too forced or anything?

I'll probably be visiting this thread often in the future with more questions instead of making multiple topics.

[longshotist]

Sure! Sounds terrific to me.

Grats on getting a group together and good tidings on your first DMing experience!

Looking forward to reading how far afield your players that things because they will invariably, almost immediately go off the rails lol

[Biggstick]

I'd be careful about how powerful you make these bandits. Level 1 PC's are notoriously easy to one shot on a bad critical.

I'd also advise talking with the PC's instead of just looking at their character sheets. Find out what isn't written down on the sheet. What are the motivations for the PC's, beyond what's written down?

[Vectros]

Oh yeah, been doing my research including this forum. For every (major) plot point I'm making alternate plans in case they don't go for whatever I expect them to go for...like not trying to save the kidnapped wizard.

The group will be starting level 3, and there's 5 members (I'm aware this a lot and will probably be difficult). Planning to use the Cultists stats, shouldn't be too bad-I remember knocking those guys around all day in an earlier campaign. Specifically starting level 3 due to tips I've read about level 1-2 being squishy.

[Gastronomie]

The start seems good, but two things:


I'd be careful about how powerful you make these bandits. Level 1 PC's are notoriously easy to one shot on a bad critical.

I'd also advise talking with the PC's instead of just looking at their character sheets. Find out what isn't written down on the sheet. What are the motivations for the PC's, beyond what's written down?Concerning this post.

First, you should start characters at level 2, or perhps even level 3 or higher in the case in which the players are already experienced. Level 1 characters die way too easily, limiting the level of encounters you can throw at them as a DM. Especially if you're a beginner DM, you should not play with level 1 characters.

Second, tell your players that the most important thing about a PC is his motivation. A character with motivation is really easy to drive as a DM, since you know what he wants, and know what he'll fight for. You know what his carrot is, when you want to make him run. It'll become really easy to create a campaign.

When creating characters, I always try to give them motivations and goals, and the DM always utilizes them to drive the plot on. You should ask your players to do the same, because it'll be really beneficial for you.

EDIT: Went off computer after pressing "reply button", so didn't see the post 10+ minutes ago. Ignore the first thing I said.

[Yora]

The first 30 minutes of a new campaign are exactly the right spot for the GM to dictate what's happening before the players are given the reins to take over.

Letting the players do whatever they want rarely works well because the players don't know what their options are before the campaign has actually started. After a few scenes have happened they have something to work with to take the game forward.

[mephnick]

I almost always "railroad" the first session completely. New players, old players, strangers, friends, doesn't matter. Throw them in a situation and give them a very quick goal to accomplish, like "survive cultist attack, make way to city on foot." This gives them time to familiarize themselves with their characters, group dynamic and you. Then try to leave the first session with more open opportunities for the next session, like "After a hard journey, you are at the gates of Waterdeep, the possibilities are endless." THEN get an idea of motivations and plans of action the players are hoping to pursue from then on.

So yes, force the caravan/cultist opening on them and then open it up. Don't give them GM made motivations. When you get to the city at the end of the first session, have them reveal their own motivations (really you should do a session zero and have them laid out already if possible). If they can't think of anything specific, and they're good players, they'll run with investigating the cultists as that's obviously the important story thread you started, but they may not.

[Vectros]

So as I'm thinking about this I am considering using the surprise mechanic, intending to make rolls now to see how bad it would turn out, but I need a little clarification.

The handbook states "the DM compares the Dexterity checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends."

So if I have 10 bandits lying in ambush, I make a check for EACH bandit ("of anyone hiding"). ANyone surprised can't move or take an action on the first turn, nor reactions. So what if someone has a high enough perception to detect 8 bandits, but not the last 2? Is there like a pre-combat round where only these 2 would go? Do all the bandits go? I don't want to make the first fight hard which going this route might make it so...thus I might say so long as at least 2-3 bandits are noticed, all are noticed, or not even do these rolls.

So what is the ruling on this?

[Ninja_Prawn]

What are your thoughts? Is this too forced or anything?

Forced? No. If anything, I'd say it's clichéd. Every other campaign these days seems to start with the PCs being wagon guards and getting thrown into a combat before they can get to know one another...

If it ain't broke, I suppose.


So if I have 10 bandits lying in ambush, I make a check for EACH bandit ("of anyone hiding"). Anyone surprised can't move or take an action on the first turn, nor reactions. So what if someone has a high enough perception to detect 8 bandits, but not the last 2? Is there like a pre-combat round where only these 2 would go? Do all the bandits go? I don't want to make the first fight hard which going this route might make it so...thus I might say so long as at least 2-3 bandits are noticed, all are noticed, or not even do these rolls.

So what is the ruling on this?

Different DMs handle it differently, I think. When I do this sort of thing, I make a note of which PCs are actually on watch/scouting (usually it's only one in my group), then compare their passive perception to a single stealth check for the whole group of ambushers. If it was a really big group. I might give them disadvantage or split them into smaller groups to increase the chance of someone being spotted. I rule it slightly differently when PCs are hiding, because they're special. They make a stealth check each and anyone who isn't spotted gets to act in a surprise round. That means the stealthy ones aren't necessarily dragged down by the noisy ones.

With surprise, as far as I'm concerned, if the PCs are expecting to be attacked, there is no surprise round. So if there's two groups of bandits and they spot the group in the bushes, the group on the ridge doesn't get a surprise round. The players might still be surprised, but there's no mechanical effect on the PCs.

[Sabeta]

Better to be a little forced to give them motivation than to give them too much freedom and have them ignore all of your plot points and waste a lot of time.

[Herobizkit]

Here's a twist, not sure how tasty it is but...

The heroes are hired on to guard a caravan and, somewhere down the line, it gets SEIZED.

As in, sometime down the road, a Guard Captain with a retinue gallop up to the cart and demand to see its contents. These are legit Guards from the town the heroes just left. Make sure you highlight something special about the guards to identify them - maybe a colored armor, particular crest/shield, stylized helmet... something. Make sure the Captain LOOKS official and stands out from his lessers.

Turns out, the cart actually contains stolen merchandise and/or some kind of contraband.

(At this point, you have two options for the Caravaneer: he's not aware of the contraband and is just as innocent as the heroes, or he's guilty/aware and abandons the cart - up to you if someone chases him down on horseback).

DO the PC's fight the guards and get the caravan to its destination (and their promised pay)? Do they surrender the cart to the guards? Do they turn on their Caravaneer and throw him under the bus, er, cart? Snitches get stitches, after all; if the players give up the name of their boss, it could spell for some revenge down the line...

Anyway, my brain's rambling, but do you see where offering multiple solutions to an issue can make for more interesting story-telling? Don't get me wrong, guard caravan is classic (and cliche, as mentioned above), but for brand new players, the cliche's new to them. Go bananas. We all started from nothing.

[90sMusic]

I agree with the notion that level 1 heroes are incredibly weak and easy to kill.

As for how you begin your campaign... That is entirely up to you! There are all sorts of ways to do it.

Starting in a tavern is just one of the more "cliche" ways, I suppose it's easy?

I've had characters who met each other in basic training/boot camp in one of the campaigns I ran.

In another game they were all childhood friends who dreamed of being great heroes and adventurers as kids, then when they grew up they got normal jobs and went their separate ways, then tragedy back home brought them all back together and they decided to save their home town themselves, etc.

Then you have the "chosen hero" approach where they are already well-known in the world for their skills and were selected by some rich merchant or powerful lord to perform some task for them suited to their abilities. You were each summoned and called together for this reason, put together as a team by someone else's whim.

I mean there's no limit really. Any number of reasons and excuses for people to be in the same proximity to each other and beyond that, all they need is motivation to accomplish the same goal. Self-interest and gold for the neutrals and helping others for the goods.

I like to use an approach that appropriately covers all the bases with character classes and backgrounds. For example: The local lord is throwing a wedding celebration for his son's wedding day. It's going to be a week long festival with all sorts of varying activities to take part in and draw huge crowds from all over.

The noble born fighter PC is there because he was invited as one of the lesser lord houses whose father is a vassal to the lord. He is there to pay his respects to his lord and his future lord (being the son). He is attending to represent his family as his father is too busy governing his own lands and internal matters to get away and by now the lordling is used to representing his family in such matters and becoming accustomed to the politics of ruling he will one day have to manage.

The criminal rogue is drawn to large crowds of highly distracted, typically inebriated, and often rich guests because they are easy marks to steal from. Maybe he puts on a kind face, acts drunk as he stumbles into other people celebrating as he snatches their coinpurse. Even if he gets caught, he can easily get lost in the massive crowds in the streets before the guards have time to react. Money is good in such occasions.

The charlatan bard is there to lie and con his way into the inner circles of the celebration and gain entry to the lord's court with the honored guests in order to rub shoulders with the richest and most powerful people in the land in order to build his own influence or perhaps just to con them out of money through some scheme or plot. He goes around, acting like he belongs there, smiling and catering to the politics of the court.

The entertainer bard is there to put on shows in the streets, taking advantage of the large crowds which feed off of each other's energy to give more and more gold to hear good songs during the celebrations. He also enjoys the fine ales, much finer than what is usually served in the poorer parts of town, but being brought out thanks to the celebration.

The wandering barbarian has come for one reason only. To compete in the tournament and win first place in the melee. It comes with a sizable reward purse, but he doesn't care, he just wants the honor and glory of being the best and having everyone there see that he is the best. He wants them to chant his name and celebrate his ever victory.

The sagely wizard has come to shop. He knows merchants from all over the kingdom will flock to such an event to sell their wares and sometimes they possess magical items, whether they know it or not. A simple bauble might have a powerful enchantment upon it, hidden from the untrained eye. Or perhaps an adventurer is selling off rare magical scrolls the wizard could buy to inscribe into his spellbook. You never know what you're going to get in such a place.

The loyal Paladin is a local hero among the townsfolk. He was once just a devout guard in town, but through training and worship, has risen above the rank and file. Now acting as one of the guard captains for the city, he is tasked with overseeing security in the town square and merchant district to try to keep thievery and drunken brawls to a minimum. He is well known and respected around town. All of the guards and many of the citizens are all keenly aware of who he is and treat him with respect.

The pious cleric is one of the clergy at the local temple of Pelor. He and some of the acolytes have taken to the streets to take donations for the temple to ensure that it is properly maintained and has enough gold from tithing and donations to feed not only those working there, but also some of the homeless who live in the city who come to the temple for food to get by. He is offering blessings and prayers to anyone who donates and encouraging the celebrating masses to not lose themselves entirely in revelry for the gods are always watching!


So on and so forth. Point is, major events are a great starting point because you can have people from literally ALL walks of life be involved for a variety of reasons and can make it work for any background/class combo. :) I think that helps paint a better picture and makes players feel more attached to the world they are playing in and so on. But that's just me.

[Vectros]

Forced? No. If anything, I'd say it's clichéd. Every other campaign these days seems to start with the PCs being wagon guards and getting thrown into a combat before they can get to know one another...

If it ain't broke, I suppose.



Different DMs handle it differently, I think. When I do this sort of thing, I make a note of which PCs are actually on watch/scouting (usually it's only one in my group), then compare their passive perception to a single stealth check for the whole group of ambushers. If it was a really big group. I might give them disadvantage or split them into smaller groups to increase the chance of someone being spotted. I rule it slightly differently when PCs are hiding, because they're special. They make a stealth check each and anyone who isn't spotted gets to act in a surprise round. That means the stealthy ones aren't necessarily dragged down by the noisy ones.

With surprise, as far as I'm concerned, if the PCs are expecting to be attacked, there is no surprise round. So if there's two groups of bandits and they spot the group in the bushes, the group on the ridge doesn't get a surprise round. The players might still be surprised, but there's no mechanical effect on the PCs.

Wasn't aware wagon opening was a regular thing. Only been in like 4 campaigns myself, they all started in the tavern, so I thought that was the most typical start and I was being unique.

Don't know if it makes any different, but they aren't actually guarding the wagon, they're simply passengers who've never met, and coincidentally are all very competent combatants. Again with the intention instead of forcing anything in a tavern, simply presenting the opportunity for them to talk and start bonding, before getting yanked into a sudden combat.

[Ashdate]

I agree with the posters who say you can take the reins a bit for the first session. Starting on a travelling caravan is fine, as long as it ends up drawing the characters together. For that end, you might want to think about why *this* trip is the fateful moment that has drawn the PCs together. The standard would be "their actions against the bandits has drawn the eye of a local NPC of Some Renown" but if you've got time, you can get creative.

What about instead of a caravan, they're on an airship that's attacked by space pirates after the magical MacGuffin? Or maybe they're part of a refugee camp that is escaping <insert terror that will take 15 levels to defeat>. Heck, have them all begin as shackled prisoners of Aunty Ganust, the evil necromancer who is collecting bodies for creating The Ultimate Lifeform (perhaps instead of bandits attacking, it's a rescue party!).

Set the scene and then ask your players how THEY fit into it.

Regarding stealth and passive perception check, Ninja Prawn has a good idea on how to handle it so I echo their comments.

[Vectros]

So this may come across as a bit odd, but I was thinking about it today, and in my past campaigns as a player I'd say about 40% of the time was spent doing social stuff. Now I'm beginning to wonder how it lasted that long. In a 3 hour session, getting about an hour to an hour and 15 just talking and stuff. Obviously I have a bunch of players who will be interacting, but I feel like I need some dialogue prepared...how have you guys gone about doing this?

[Reaver25]

So this may come across as a bit odd, but I was thinking about it today, and in my past campaigns as a player I'd say about 40% of the time was spent doing social stuff. Now I'm beginning to wonder how it lasted that long. In a 3 hour session, getting about an hour to an hour and 15 just talking and stuff. Obviously I have a bunch of players who will be interacting, but I feel like I need some dialogue prepared...how have you guys gone about doing this?

Let me start by saying that while many people may say that the wagon bit or the tavern bit is cliche, it doesn't matter. Not only are you a new DM, but you are just getting your foot into it. You will be spinning wild tales of glory and blood soon enough, fear not. Everyone starts off in a similar place and takes their DMing skills to different levels.

On the social stuff, My DM has had multiple ways of doing this. One has been having a literal script of what he would say to the PCs, one has been very open and the NPC had to be persuaded to give certain information, and he's even "this is what you hear around town while you are here." There are many different ways to go about giving information to PCs, and having long social moments can be good, but they need to be broken up by other events in some way.

P.s. - good tidings to the first DMer!

[Nifft]

One DM trick that I like to use is to tell them what they are doing, in a way that lets them choose how or why.

For example:

"You're on the Lightning Rail to Sharn, the City of Towers. You have an important meeting there. Who are you meeting, and why are you eager to get there?"

...

"Great. Do any of your characters know each other before getting on the train?"

...

"Awesome. Now, you're all seated in a cabin together. The trip has been smooth for the last four hours, and you're chatting amiably, when suddenly ..."

[2D8HP]

Would this be a good start to a campaign?Yes.

Here's two more;:

“In the Year of the Behemoth, the Month of the Hedgehog, The Day of the Toad."

"Satisfied that they your near the goal of your quest, you think of how you had slit the interesting-looking vellum page from the ancient book on architecture that reposed in the library of the rapacious and overbearing Lord Rannarsh."

“It was a page of thick vellum, ancient and curiously greenish. Three edges were frayed and worn; the fourth showed a clean and recent cut. It was inscribed with the intricate hieroglyphs of Lankhmarian writing, done in the black ink of the squid. Reading":
"Let kings stack their treasure houses ceiling-high, and merchants burst their vaults with hoarded coin, and fools envy them. I have a treasure that outvalues theirs. A diamond as big as a man's skull. Twelve rubies each as big as the skull of a cat. Seventeen emeralds each as big as the skull of a mole. And certain rods of crystal and bars of orichalcum. Let Overlords swagger jewel-bedecked and queens load themselves with gems, and fools adore them. I have a treasure that will outlast theirs. A treasure house have I builded for it in the far southern forest, where the two hills hump double, like sleeping camels, a day's ride beyond the village of Soreev.

"A great treasure house with a high tower, fit for a king's dwelling—yet no king may dwell there. Immediately below the keystone of the chief dome my treasure lies hid, eternal as the glittering stars. It will outlast me and my name,"

100 years ago the sorcerer Zenopus built a tower on the low hills overlooking Portown. The tower was close to the sea cliffs west of the town and, appropriately, next door to the graveyard.
Rumor has it that the magician made extensive cellars and tunnels underneath the tower. The town is located on the ruins of a much older city of doubtful history and Zenopus was said to excavate in his cellars in search of ancient treasures.

Fifty years ago, on a cold wintry night, the wizard's tower was suddenly engulfed in green flame. Several of his human servants escaped the holocaust, saying their rnaster had been destroyed by some powerful force he had unleashed in the depths of the tower.
Needless to say the tower stood vacant fora while afterthis, but then the neighbors and the night watchmen comploined that ghostly blue lights appeared in the windows at night, that ghastly screams could be heard emanating from the tower ot all hours, and goblin figures could be seen dancina on the tower roof in the moonlight. Finally the authorities had a catapult rolled through the streets of the town and the tower was battered to rubble. This stopped the hauntings but the townsfolk continue to shun the ruins. The entrance to the old dungeons can be easily located as a flight of broad stone steps leading down into darkness, but the few adventurous souls who hove descended into crypts below the ruin have either reported only empty stone corridors or have failed to return at all.
Other magic-users have moved into the town but the site of the old tower remains abandoned.
Whispered tales are told of fabulous treasure and unspeakable monsters in the underground passages below the hilltop, and the story tellers are always careful to point out that the reputed dungeons lie in close proximity to the foundations of the older, pre-human city, to the graveyard, and to the sea.
Portown is a small but busy city 'linking the caravan routes from the south to the merchant ships that dare the pirate-infested waters of the Northern Sea. Humans and non-humans from all over the globe meet here.
At he Green Dragon Inn, the players of the game gather their characters for an assault on the fabulous passages beneath the ruined Wizard's tower.

:smile:

[Vectros]

Question regarding scaling difficulty based on number of monsters. Planning a map with about a dozen enemies. I intend for it to count as one encounter, so it'll have a X3 difficulty mutiplier. However enemies will be spread around the map; initially they'll have 2 combatants to face, who will raise the alarm (if they don't stealth or something) and call on the rest of the gang, but they'll arrive a couple turns apart due to distance. Should I consider it just one encounter for the difficulty scale (making it X3) since they could POTENTIALLY all fight at the same time, or a more...realistic scaling, IE based on their spread-running the risk of gaining a smaller amount of exp for a scenario that could potentially turn difficult?

[Finback]

If you're concerned that a group of bandits may be too tricky for a 1st level band*, may I suggest giving them a single bandit? He's the dandy highwayman**, holding up their wagon - which is enclosed, so he doesn't know they're in there. Allows for Cha-based attempts to scare him off, spellcasters to do some low level lightshows, and worst case, a group of them should have no trouble beating him up. You can always have him escape to return with his band at a later date too.

* My five 1st level party took on four goblins in LMoP, and almost lost half the party.
** He spend his cash on looking flash and grabbing your attention.

[Gastronomie]

If you're concerned that a group of bandits may be too tricky for a 1st level band*, may I suggest giving them a single bandit? He's the dandy highwayman**, holding up their wagon - which is enclosed, so he doesn't know they're in there. Allows for Cha-based attempts to scare him off, spellcasters to do some low level lightshows, and worst case, a group of them should have no trouble beating him up. You can always have him escape to return with his band at a later date too.

* My five 1st level party took on four goblins in LMoP, and almost lost half the party.
** He spend his cash on looking flash and grabbing your attention.Solo encounters are really bad in 5e though.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Solo encounters are really bad in 5e though.

Mhm. An encounter where you lose half the party is probably more exciting than anything you'd get from a solo bandit.

As to the actual maths that the OP asked about... that's up to you. You're right to think that the disposition of monsters, the terrain you're fighting over and the possibility of surprise rounds (going either way) has an impact on the difficulty that is not reflected in the DMG's table. It's probably not possible to account for every possible variable in a truly rigorous way. You just have to play it by ear.

There are always options available to you as the DM. If it looks like you've thrown too much heat at them, you can always drop a bridge on some of the monsters - and if the PCs are obviously going to win, you can just wrap up the encounter with a bit of narration (they surrender, they run away, whatever) before it gets boring.

[ethertwist]

One DM trick that I like to use is to tell them what they are doing, in a way that lets them choose how or why.



Yep, you beat me to it. I was going to post exactly this.

I recently DMed a first session for 5 new players to the game. They had all made their characters and had a vague idea of their motivations (to varying levels of enthusiasm). I had a list of potential start areas and through a random roll they all ended up in a bank. I let them roll the dice so they could feel involved in the creation of their world. I then went around and asked them all to tell me why they were in the bank.

This got them thinking about their backgrounds and motivations, and gave them a sense of agency (I liked that one character decided he was there to exchange some blood stained coins lest someone trace their theft back to him), and it also stopped them from spending two hours wandering around with little idea of what to do.

Ultimately I was railroading them, and the room they were in was inconsequential. But I wanted them in the same room and that small change to the setup set a nice tone and got them involved and engaged.

So, go with your caravan idea it sounds great. But I recommend asking them why they are there, not telling them why they are there.

And good luck!

[Malifice]

Hey all, first time poster and first time DM. Starting up a session in a couple of weeks. I have a good idea of where story is going, etc. I'm working on how I want the session to start-I don't really want to do the typical "everyone in a tavern" approach.

So instead, as I am receiving their character sheets, I am coming up with reasons for them to all to go to a particular town. I'll tell the players they are on a wagon together heading towards their destination-giving them a bit of time to talk if they wish and get to know each other.

Once the time feels right, the wagon is ambushed. Roll for initiative, time for a fight!

I think this would make for a more interesting meet n' greet and would give a bit more of a bond for a group that hasn't met-they just helped watch each others backs in a fight. I have a sidequest planned involving bandits which could tie into this ambush as well.

What are your thoughts? Is this too forced or anything?

I'll probably be visiting this thread often in the future with more questions instead of making multiple topics.


For an even better suggestion start the campaign in 'media res' halfway through the fight, bodies and bad guys all around and the PCs being the only survivors needing to fight to survive.

[Vectros]

Yep, you beat me to it. I was going to post exactly this.

I recently DMed a first session for 5 new players to the game. They had all made their characters and had a vague idea of their motivations (to varying levels of enthusiasm). I had a list of potential start areas and through a random roll they all ended up in a bank. I let them roll the dice so they could feel involved in the creation of their world. I then went around and asked them all to tell me why they were in the bank.

This got them thinking about their backgrounds and motivations, and gave them a sense of agency (I liked that one character decided he was there to exchange some blood stained coins lest someone trace their theft back to him), and it also stopped them from spending two hours wandering around with little idea of what to do.

Ultimately I was railroading them, and the room they were in was inconsequential. But I wanted them in the same room and that small change to the setup set a nice tone and got them involved and engaged.

So, go with your caravan idea it sounds great. But I recommend asking them why they are there, not telling them why they are there.

And good luck!

Yeah, good point. The way I've gone about it (FYI for everyone, first session is tomorrow, so I'll probably make a report here on how it went) is I told everyone they're heading to a small village (did not say "start in", nor did I let on they aren't actually there yet-I think they all believe it'll be in the tavern), and to give me their background so we could workout why they're doing it.

[DKing9114]

Wasn't aware wagon opening was a regular thing. Only been in like 4 campaigns myself, they all started in the tavern, so I thought that was the most typical start and I was being unique.

Don't know if it makes any different, but they aren't actually guarding the wagon, they're simply passengers who've never met, and coincidentally are all very competent combatants. Again with the intention instead of forcing anything in a tavern, simply presenting the opportunity for them to talk and start bonding, before getting yanked into a sudden combat.

The hot opening is a common alternative to the "you all meet in a tavern" start. If you're going for something more story focused than "hey guys, lets go raid that dungeon," it can help you introduce plot elements very quickly. My recommendation, because it has worked quite well in the past several campaigns I've been in, is to sit down with each player and work out their backstory and personality(because you may need to approve or veto elements of their backstory) and to work with them to explain why they are on that wagon. It can really open up the RP opportunities.

[punkerke]

Lots of good ideas,

I just started a new homebrew campaign myself, first self made world with a brand new playergroup.

Because I was unsure about where their focusses and motivations lie, and to wich degree they'd actually be motivated to get 'into' the world.. I've opted for a slightly different approach.

Seeing as both them and myself are fairly unfamiliar with the D&D 5e rules and game mechanics, and it was an all new and self made world, plus the players really wanted a more rp heavy/social experience rather than a dungeon crawler.
So I came up with an 'intro'.

Basicly, I asked them to roll some lvl 5 characters, and set them on a fairly railroaded mission, in this case:

They were to attend a royal wedding between a kingdom and a rivalling duchy, wich would serve as a basis for the duchy to join the kingdom peacefully without loss of their rights. Though in the week before the marriage an attempt was made on the kings life, and despite not having any real evidence, they suspected the duchy to be behind it.

So I dropped my players (I had a noble rogue and dwarven bard present at the time) in the retinue that the kingdom set forth to the ceremony.
Gave them the task to attend the reception that was held the day before the wedding to lurk arround the duke's estate and find proof. Gave them 3 pretty clear objectives: knight captains orders, the half-elf chamberlain and the house-mage who has been acting a bit off, as possible sources.

The reception comes and they pry arround, asking question, trying to find information, and they quickly pick up signals that things aren't all in order.
So they make some attempts to sneak arround and get to the places where they'd possibly find answers, but due to pretty horrible dice rolls and the fact that they were actually so in character, that they willfully tried to avoid causing any upstarts or troubles. (wich I thought was great), they didn't go anywhere far.

So by the end of the evening they had little bits and pieces of information that things weren't right.

Based on those pieces of information and knowing that their king, the high magistrate and his daughter (to be wed) would arrive shortly, they were virtually nowhere.

During the next day their king arrives, and they learn that the king, his chief magistrate (story hooked to the noble player) and his daughter will be sharing a meal in private with the duke and his oldest of three sons (the oldest being the one to wed the daughter).
The party starts to worry, they actually spend over an hour discussing amongst themselves and decided that if the duke was indeed out to kill off the royal family, the most likely time to do it was during a dinner, poison the king, wed the daughter and plant his son on the throne.

So they came up with a plan to raid the estate during the night, scrounged up some help from some other npc's that were in the retinue and snuck in via a back entrance they found.

They sneak in, incapacitate the guards, try to barge into the dinner, meanwhile setting off hidden and magical alarms (rogue forgot to check in the rush). So there they were, hooded and cloaked, weapons in hand, breaking into the estate.
And first thing they say when the guards try to arrest them is 'that guy's a traitor - pointing at the duke'. So what ensues is a massive battle royale in the dinner room, kingdom guards and party vs duke's houseguards and the knight captain.

In the end they got their king killed, the duke laid bleeding out on the floor and the oldest son was barely standing. At wich point the chamberlain, the magistrate and the middle son of the duke came out of the side-room applauding. (wich they totally didn't bother to explore before setting off the chaos by accident).
It becomes clear they've been set up, the magistrate wanted the king dead so he could take control. The middle son envied his older brother's claim and didn't want to be just second in line, and the half elf magistrate was working with both as a spy from the elven court in order to gain support to help solve the elven civil war ( something that was in the backstory of the world and something the players knew was going on ).

So now they're facing the true enemies, low on hp, spells and allies (they killed most of them :P), they decide to high tail it, and despite all odds actually make it out somewhat alive. Causing a big enough distraction even for the knight captain (who was a 'good' guy all along, but they nearly killed as he was defending the duke) to grab the oldest son and escape.

So now they have not only helped the conspiracy work out, they're now also branded as traitors wanted for the murder of both the king and duke. The noble's family was strung up by the magistrate, and the dwarf was outlawed.

And that's where I ended the intro.

This outcome to me was entirely unpredictable, as I had planned for them to actually find the evidence and clues. But due to ****ty dice rolls and surprisingly careful ingame approaches by the players.. they never got to finding the actual clues.
Only heard rumors and whispers :-)
If they had found the clues they would've deducted the traitors to be this triumverate and they could thwart the plot and save the day.
So I could put up their intro chars and important npc's as npc's in the actual campaign I wanted to run.
And create a more 'engaging' world for them to adventure in..

Now the fate of that kingdom is vastly different, the magistrate is a tyrant, the duchy is ruled by a powermonger, and the 'bad' elves are winning their civil war. Plus their characters are still out in the world trying not to get caught and killed, the knight captain escaped with the duke's oldest son and heir barely alive..

So now I'm starting the actual campaign as '3 years later' with all fresh heroes in that world. And I know that at some point (probably not immediatly ;-) let them sudder for a while), but at some point I'm going to throw them on the path of an npc that's either one of those chars, who is on a mission to right the wrongs.
And judging by how the players reacted after the intro, I'm pretty sure they're motivated to immerse now :-)

[Vectros]

Been a good bit since I posted here. Mind as well give a small report on the first 2 sessions before asking my question.

So session 1 had the wagon ambush. The group talked a bit before it-gave them maybe 10-15 mins to talk before throwing it at them. Then I gave them opportunity to talk after the fight-which they didn't really do, to my dismay. At least not as much as expected. They then arrived in the village-presently a couple potential side quests (already made it clear before hand, "follow the wizard" for the main quest). They went to his tower, but seperately, something I didn't anticipate, Which threw me off a bit. My intent had been for the group to talk together and be sent on an errand or 2, but 1 person comes up, and I give him the quest...then the next person or 2 I basically say "might want to follow him, those are dangerous woods". Group was kind of questioning it since it seemed silly, but they went. They returned to the village and that's where we left off story wise for the third session.

Basic plot break down for the future:Group goes to Wizard in the morning, only to find he's missing. His son (whom they met near the end of the last session) runs to them out of breath, telling them how his father has gone missing and needs help finding him. This will lead to a series of fetch quests, and the rest after that isn't too important for now.

So here's the problem. I was counting on the ambush+the first fetch quest together to act as a good bond-both between each player, and the relationships with the wizard. However they all don't really like the wizard, despite having various reasons to see him, it's shakier than I was hoping-as well as player to player bonds. So I kind of want to do another simple mindless quest, but I'm afraid if I do a couple of the characters will decide it's not worth it-they will believe he's just using them or something. On the other hand if I go forward now with the kidnapping, they might not have enough bonding to all agree on rescuing him...

So, anyone got any good ideas? For now I'm gonna go with he gets kidnapped and hope it works, but would like something better if anyone has an idea.

[Ronnocius]

If the party hates or dislikes the quest-giver NPC, it might be best to move the story in a different direction. Maybe while on their first quest the party returns and finds the village under attack by hobgoblins/goblins/undead/etc. Perhaps the party is ambushed by allies of the original ambushers.

Maybe make the adventurers learn about the kidnapping another way that will make them curious and interested in the quest. Good luck with whatever you do, hopefully it turns out well!

[Vectros]

So I do have a long-term (think 2 years real time) story planned which will need to have the wizard kidnapped, at least at some point to get the plot moving. I'm open to something that would have them learn of the kidnapping in a round about way, but not sure how I'll go about doing that.

[MeeposFire]

So I do have a long-term (think 2 years real time) story planned which will need to have the wizard kidnapped, at least at some point to get the plot moving. I'm open to something that would have them learn of the kidnapping in a round about way, but not sure how I'll go about doing that.

Well if you can't make the wizard likeable perhaps flip the script at some point. The wizard is not the friend he is the enemy and since they do not like him they will follow him to get rid of him. Then just make the needed changes to make it work.

This might be a good idea IF you cannot make the wizard likeable. If you cannot they might just ignore the kidnapping and ruin your idea.

[Vectros]

Hmm...ok, gonna share a bit more of the story here, a tl:dr version:

-Demons were sealed from the world a long long time ago
-Foreign creatures can only reach material plane by an "invitation" from one of its inhabitants.
-Turns out this "invitation" requires the blood of someone from one of the chosen bloodlines, and also requires an "otherwordly" magic to use.
-The big bad resides in the starting town, disguised as one of the other major NPC's whom the players know is there (but they haven't actually talked to him yet).
-Big bad is an evil wizard from long ago who tried bringing demons back, but failed and disappeared.
-He now knows the 2 requirements, and through a slightly complex plan will introduce otherwordly magic to the world
-The good Wizard I was talking about earlier is part of one of these bloodlines revealed earlier
-Once a couple story arcs have gone down (first arc=learning about all this stuff+wizard getting kidnapped by someone who only knows 1/2 of this equation trying to summon demons, second=evil wizard secretly manipulating otherwordly creatures, getting them to die on material plane to spread their essence, effectively spreading otherwordly magic. Will look like an invasion to the players), evil wizard will kidnap good wizard (yeah, his second kidnapping) and sacrifice him to open up demon portals.

I think that's as short as I can make the story. So based off of this plan making the good Wizard evil would fudge it up. He already has a known history (leading the wizard council) and is known as being a good guy, they've just perceived him as an asshat because of how their conversations have gone down.

They *are* supposed to all be good characters, in fact before this campaign started I asked them some questions-one of which went something like "if an innocent was kidnapped would your character help them?" to which they all answered yes. The question becomes will this be overridden because they think he's an ******* (not necessarily evil, just they don't like him as a person).

Oh and while I'm thinking about it, one of my players, the wizard, expressed concern. He ran out of spell slots before the end of the battle in our last session because I gave no warning a second wave is coming-he asked for me to say something like "you hear a trumpet sounding" to give him a heads up if there are more waves. I feel as though he should be trying to keep some reserves for this scenario-that I shouldn't need to give a warning every time. Maybe I'm wrong, what do you guys think?

[Addaran]

If you want them to go after the wizard, there's two great solution even if they hate him.
1) Big rewards! The wizard council or his family is rich and will pay to get him back.
2) Arrange for them to know that he's part of a doomsday plan (or at least of evil ritual that probably won't be good). Even if they don't like him, they should go save him (or worst case, kill him so he can't be used as a key...)




Oh and while I'm thinking about it, one of my players, the wizard, expressed concern. He ran out of spell slots before the end of the battle in our last session because I gave no warning a second wave is coming-he asked for me to say something like "you hear a trumpet sounding" to give him a heads up if there are more waves. I feel as though he should be trying to keep some reserves for this scenario-that I shouldn't need to give a warning every time. Maybe I'm wrong, what do you guys think?

You're probably right. Unless it's a bunch of mammoths charging for the second chase, maybe the enemies was just steal-thing/normal humans don't make that much noise walking, compared to a fight. Especially if the fight isn't in a featureless plane, walls and obstacles will block vision and lessen the sound.

Also, as a DM, sometimes you don't know exactly how many waves you want and/or you're too busy thinking of other stuff to foreshadow.

[Vectros]

Yeah I thought of doing money as my original reason, prior to the fetch quests/bonding stuff. Probably the best idea-feels a little cheesy but should get the job done.

[Vectros]

So we didn't end up having a session this last week, had to cancel. But I'm thinking for the next one I want to do no combat, since the first 2 each had a lot of fighting-trying to diversify the sessions. Continuing with the kidnapping right off would probably end up with combat, so I want to design a session long (3ish hours) exploration/social. The social, according to my old DMs, is dependent on the players-you'll only get as much of it as they give. Exploration I think I'm weak on. I want to design something for each player to do for an in game day which would take up most of this session, based on each of their reasons for seeing the Wizard. Hoping to get some brainstorming on how you guys might go about this. Their reason are:

Wizard-Wants to learn from the best (as I said in a previous post, the good Wizard is a the former leader of the Wizard Council). I think designing some sort of training session would be cool, maybe even have some sort of reward for it-perhaps based on how he as a player performs. I think I'd want it to be a party-wide reward so he doesn't gain an unfair advantage. I'm unsure of how to mimic Wizard training in a fun, non combat way.
Monk- His "boss" has ordered him to guard the Wizard. The best I can think of is he either over hears someone talking about someone sneaking around at night, which may cause him to investigate, or he observes someone snooping around.
Barbarian-His village was slaughtered and wants the Barbarian to use Scrying to find the culprit. Probably the hardest one...
Paladin-This guy kinda forgot why he originally came to the village, but in essence he'll need to talk to another NPC to start his primary side quest, then the wizard. I don't expect this to take the entire session, so maybe a bit of help on that end...
Fighter-He's a Dwarf that always lived in 1 mountain and simply wants to explore the world. I'm thinking he'll overhear something in the tavern about something interesting up in the nearby hills or mountain (the village is at the foot of a mountain).

That's the best ideas I got, hoping to find something better here. I feel like I'm asking a lot of questions, sorry about that, just bear with me :/