Estimating CR for NPCs with class levels

[Yora]

For major NPCs in my campaign I want to use character classes. If I know for example that I want a CR2 fighter and a CR1 ranger, is there some handy chart for how many levels I should roughly give them?

[pwykersotz]

I have never found one that is satisfactory, but the math isn't too bad. Keep the DMG chart for determining CR handy, and then find your NPC's damage over three rounds on average and reverse the calculation. It wont' be perfect, but it will be far more accurate than otherwise.

I would also put guidelines for how I eyeball it if that is too much annoyance to be worth it, but I can't quite commit them to words right now. Maybe someone else will have ideas.

[MrFahrenheit]

I ballpark individual NPCs like that based off the archmage in the MM. He's an 18th level caster and given CR 12. So I just figured every 3 class levels = 2 CR, while the next even numbered level in a class after each third = another 1. So 3 levels = CR 2, 4 = CR 3, 6 = CR 4, 8 = CR 5, 9 = CR 6, etc.

It ain't perfect, but it's close enough.

[Yora]

I just made a fighter and wrote down the stats for level 1 to 10 and compared them with the table. It seems to roughly line up with 2 lvls ~ 1 CR.

Given that spellcasters at higher levels are usually stronger, that seems to line up well enough with 2 lvls ~ 1.5 CR.

Good enough for statting major NPCs. If you want to make the encounters to match closely with the tables (which I doubt is worth any major trouble) you could just adjust the number of minions in the final group.

[Nifft]

In 4e there was a neat "elite" template which basically gave a monster a small number of class abilities without giving it any class levels.

It would be cool if there were some kind of template like that for 5e monsters, maybe one template per class.

Has that been attempted yet?

Thanks, -N

[Zanthy1]

In 4e there was a neat "elite" template which basically gave a monster a small number of class abilities without giving it any class levels.

It would be cool if there were some kind of template like that for 5e monsters, maybe one template per class.

Has that been attempted yet?

Thanks, -N

Not that I am aware of, but it does sound really neat.

For the original question, the 2 to 1 ratio is pretty solid, but I feel that it would change based on the type of encounter. Like most encounters, the CR increases with more enemies, but throwing class levels into the mix I feel makes it a little different. A level 4 Fighter NPC with 2 allies of orcs would be a little higher than CR 2 I'd think.

[Yora]

It's a base line to begin the statting of an NPC. If you want to accurately judge the challenge you'll still have to do all the CR calculation at the end and then consider how each special ability of the NPC interacts with all the resources and abilities the party has. CR is meaningless if the party has no way to deal any damage.

[Zalabim]

I ballpark individual NPCs like that based off the archmage in the MM. He's an 18th level caster and given CR 12. So I just figured every 3 class levels = 2 CR, while the next even numbered level in a class after each third = another 1. So 3 levels = CR 2, 4 = CR 3, 6 = CR 4, 8 = CR 5, 9 = CR 6, etc.

It ain't perfect, but it's close enough.

It's worth mentioning that the Archmage doesn't have PC class abilities and has a spell list not particularly suited for combat. Any NPC that gets built is going to need at least a cursory sanity check through the monster building table just to make sure that things like Meteor Swarm don't end up on a CR 12 spellcaster.

[RickAllison]

It's worth mentioning that the Archmage doesn't have PC class abilities and has a spell list not particularly suited for combat. Any NPC that gets built is going to need at least a cursory sanity check through the monster building table just to make sure that things like Meteor Swarm don't end up on a CR 12 spellcaster.

Indeed. Between Animate (Tiny) Objects or Arcane Hand for bonus action attacks (especially pre-cast), Meteor Swarm, and Disintegrate, offensive CR can get well above Archmage levels. Contingency with appropriate defensive spells, Shield, and similar means high defensive CR as well. Heck, the Shield spell on its own is worth +1 CR