Best SRD Feats for Rogue/Wizard (1st level)

[VoxRationis]

So I'm playing a rogue in an upcoming 3.5 game with some friends. I'm starting as a first-level rogue, with the intent of multiclassing to wizard and getting my whole Imoen (or possibly Nalia, but hopefully more useful and less whiny) game on. After rolling, my stats came to the following:

Strength 7
Dexterity 14
Constitution 9
Intelligence 16
Wisdom 12
Charisma 14

My character looks pretty useless in combat thus far and I intend to cop to that. My emphasis is going to be intrigue, subterfuge, and infiltration, avoiding combat as much as possible. Using SRD content only, what feats seem best? I've already ruled out Combat Expertise because it's useless at 1st level and I don't want to see enough combat to use the things that come after it.

[Troacctid]

I assume you're planning something like Rogue 1/Illusionist 5/Assassin 1/Arcane Trickster 10?

A lot of the best feats like Leadership, Improved Familiar, Craft Wondrous Item, and even just combat staples like Weapon Finesse and Exotic Weapon Proficiency aren't available until later. But Improved Initiative, Great Fortitude, Skill Focus, and Open Minded are always options if you just need a numbers boost. Wild Talent would give you psionic focus so you could take 15 on Concentration. Extend Spell could set you up for later.

[Eldariel]

Hm. Most good Core-feats are Casters'. For Rogue, you frankly only have:

- Archery Feats (they do work with Ray-spells but it's still probably not in your best interest to take Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot here - minor benefit for the feat)
- Two-Weapon Fighting Feats
- Weapon Finesse

None of those seem interesting for you. The skill bonus feats are generally not worth a feat slot either.

That leaves you with the generally useful feat in Improved Initiative (eventually Leadership). Other than that, you could begin taking feats for your arcane career already: Spell Penetration, Extend Spell & Quicken Spell can be taken without prerequisites and are eventually quite useful. Flyby Attack [Monster Manual] is a decent feat for once you learn to cast Fly but you don't technically qualify yet so perhaps not worth the effort.

Down the lane I can recommend Improved Familiar (Rogue/Wizard's Familiar is extraordinary as Familiars use your skill ranks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#familiars)), Spell Focus: Conjuration -> Augment Summoning, Craft-feats and the feats mentioned above.


One other thing I have to say. You're playing a squishy class with 9 Con. If someone so much as breathes your way, you will die. Is there no way you could e.g. swap Wisdom and Con? Constitution is the second-most-important stat on basically all characters and casters in particular get their Concentration-rolls off it. As it stands, your life will be on a short string (though by the time you get 2nd level spells, False Life can help a tad). I basically never play any class with under 14 Con if I can help it (unless I'm going to become undead or something which omits the need).

[Troacctid]

If you really have to have 9 Con, then you might be priced into taking Toughness. You can't go around starting with 5 HP—you'll get knocked over by a light breeze.

[Eldariel]

If you really have to have 9 Con, then you might be priced into taking Toughness. You can't go around starting with 5 HP—you'll get knocked over by a light breeze.

I mean, I don't think that's the worst of it. 5 HP start isn't impossible; Wizards pull it off with some regularly (though I generally do want 6+ even on Wizards if possible - significantly reduces the risk of getting one-shot). The bigger problem is leveling up; Wizard averages 2.5 HP per level which with -1 Con comes out at 1.5 HP per level. So level 2 you'll have 6 HP, level 3 you'll have 8, etc. That's just untenable.

[Nifft]

If you really have to have 9 Con, then you might be priced into taking Toughness. You can't go around starting with 5 HP—you'll get knocked over by a light breeze.

Yeah.

Toughness.

Then at level 2, grab the Toad Familiar which grants you another +3 HP. That might keep you alive long enough to get a +4 Con magic item.

[VoxRationis]

I assume you're planning something like Rogue 1/Illusionist 5/Assassin 1/Arcane Trickster 10?
I wasn't planning on going for Assassin (on account of not wanting to be an attacker, as well as possible alignment restrictions). Maybe Illusionist (certainly the spells I would want most would be illusions but I'm not sure which schools I would ban), maybe just wizard. Arcane Trickster is possible.

But Improved Initiative, Great Fortitude, Skill Focus, and Open Minded are always options if you just need a numbers boost. Wild Talent would give you psionic focus so you could take 15 on Concentration. Extend Spell could set you up for later.
I was wondering about the numbers boosts. I know that wizard levels will starve me for skill points, so getting my key thiefly skills as high as possible anyway might be handy. Yet at the same time I'm aware that those feats are kind of weak. Extend Spell could be handy.

Hm. Most good Core-feats are Casters'. For Rogue, you frankly only have:

- Archery Feats (they do work with Ray-spells but it's still probably not in your best interest to take Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot here - minor benefit for the feat)
- Two-Weapon Fighting Feats
- Weapon Finesse

None of those seem interesting for you. The skill bonus feats are generally not worth a feat slot either.

That leaves you with the generally useful feat in Improved Initiative (eventually Leadership). Other than that, you could begin taking feats for your arcane career already: Spell Penetration, Extend Spell & Quicken Spell can be taken without prerequisites and are eventually quite useful. Flyby Attack [Monster Manual] is a decent feat for once you learn to cast Fly but you don't technically qualify yet so perhaps not worth the effort.

Down the lane I can recommend Improved Familiar (Rogue/Wizard's Familiar is extraordinary as Familiars use your skill ranks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#familiars)), Spell Focus: Conjuration -> Augment Summoning, Craft-feats and the feats mentioned above.




One other thing I have to say. You're playing a squishy class with 9 Con. If someone so much as breathes your way, you will die. Is there no way you could e.g. swap Wisdom and Con? Constitution is the second-most-important stat on basically all characters and casters in particular get their Concentration-rolls off it. As it stands, your life will be on a short string (though by the time you get 2nd level spells, False Life can help a tad). I basically never play any class with under 14 Con if I can help it (unless I'm going to become undead or something which omits the need).
I really don't see Constitution as the second-most-important stat. I am of the philosophy that if you are getting hit as a wizard, you are doing something wrong in the first place. I have gotten by with a 1 hp/level (including level 1) wizard for 4 or 5 levels in a previous campaign (and would have lasted longer, had the campaign continued). Secondly, I don't believe in Concentration because it's cheating your way out of the wizard's frailty. Proper wizard play includes not getting hit, as I mentioned before. Losing a spell is just part of the penalty for screwing up. Thirdly, if you fail a Fortitude save, the worst that usually happens is that you die. If you fail a Will save, you might become a negative party member. So for this reason (plus Sense Motive and Listen), I'm not going to switch out Wisdom.

If you really have to have 9 Con, then you might be priced into taking Toughness. You can't go around starting with 5 HP—you'll get knocked over by a light breeze.
Can and have.

I mean, I don't think that's the worst of it. 5 HP start isn't impossible; Wizards pull it off with some regularly (though I generally do want 6+ even on Wizards if possible - significantly reduces the risk of getting one-shot). The bigger problem is leveling up; Wizard averages 2.5 HP per level which with -1 Con comes out at 1.5 HP per level. So level 2 you'll have 6 HP, level 3 you'll have 8, etc. That's just untenable.


Yeah.

Toughness.

Then at level 2, grab the Toad Familiar which grants you another +3 HP. That might keep you alive long enough to get a +4 Con magic item.
Seriously, guys! How does the same forum that bandies about the ubercharger and other ridiculous hp-damage builds put so much emphasis on giving a couple extra hp here and there to classes that are supposed to be delicate? Ultimately, I want this character to be rubbish in combat and useful outside of it. I've been assured that the campaign and party setup will make such a character viable.

[Sir Chuckles]

Ultimately, I want this character to be rubbish in combat and useful outside of it.

Being rubbish in combat is a fairly solid way to make yourself rubbish outside of combat. A party can only do so much with a corpse.

Though, if you're playing in the same group that let you get away with 1hp/level, you're likely playing a game with very different expectations.

[Eldariel]

Eh, the thing about HP is, having a little is so much better than having none. It's not gonna save you from a charger or a dragon full attack or so. That's not the point. The point is, there's gonna be a lot of random stuff in this game. Like a trap where you fail the disarm check. Or a breath weapon. Or nonlethal environmental damage. Or any of the billions of AOE abilities of various monsters. Or some ranged attacks, AOE effects from e.g. Alchemist's Fire, etc. Or Power Word spells or such. There's just a ton of stuff that can hit you behind enemies, where having some HP is gonna stop you from getting incapacitated.

Also, the thing about Con is, the lower your racial HD is, the larger portion of your HP is from Con. Like a Barbarian with 9 Con still gets 4.5 HP per level and 11 to start off. The Con loss only costs them about 15% of their HP. A Wizard meanwhile loses about 40% of their total HP. They also stand to gain the most relatively from a positive Con. Thus, Con is relatively more important to a Wizard. And that's without even getting into the Fort-saves. None of this applies if you go Undead or Construct or Grand Theft Body of course.


But if that's how you want to play it, suit yourself of course. Perhaps it all works out. There is a rather significant difference between having 8 or 20 HP on level 3 though (Rogue 1/Wizard 2 with 9 vs. 14 Con).

[Troacctid]

I wasn't planning on going for Assassin (on account of not wanting to be an attacker, as well as possible alignment restrictions). Maybe Illusionist (certainly the spells I would want most would be illusions but I'm not sure which schools I would ban), maybe just wizard. Arcane Trickster is possible.

I was wondering about the numbers boosts. I know that wizard levels will starve me for skill points, so getting my key thiefly skills as high as possible anyway might be handy. Yet at the same time I'm aware that those feats are kind of weak. Extend Spell could be handy.
Arcane Trickster is the incentive for multiclassing between rogue and wizard. Assassin is only used because it makes it easy to get into Arcane Trickster. (You only lose 2 levels of wizard instead of 3 with rogue 3/wizard 5.) Illusionist is then the best choice for wizard because it has Hide as a class skill to qualify for Assassin.

The other SRD option is Prestige Bard, but you lose a lot of casting that way, so it's not toootally ideal. More skill points though.

[VoxRationis]

Illusionist doesn't get Hide as a class skill, does it? I don't see it anywhere on the SRD.

[Troacctid]

Illusionist doesn't get Hide as a class skill, does it? I don't see it anywhere on the SRD.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionistVariants

[VoxRationis]

I'm not sure we can use UA variant classes, but I'll keep it in mind.