View Full Version : question about Vanguard strike

2007-07-13, 01:00 PM
Vanguard strike gives your ally a +4 bonus on their next attack against the target. However, this bonus is unnamed and if we go by RAW, that means is stacks. This means that if you can get enough guys all throwing vanguard strikes around, you can stack up a pretty impressive bonus for everyone attacking following you. Does this seem right?

2007-07-13, 01:09 PM
Unnamed bonuses from the same source don't stack with each other. Can't recall how this applies to ToB (like blood in the water), but it applies to magic. Interesting that it's unnamed, unlike leading the attack. It seems like it might, if multiple people in swarm tactics stance give crazy bonuses to each other.

:smalleek: 28 crusaders surrounding a colossal target, all in swarm tactics, stacking vanguard strikes. And White Raven Tactics. And one using White Raven Hammer every round. Hmmm... or tactics of the Wolf.

2007-07-13, 01:09 PM
Yes. The problem is that it will be unlikely that you'll be able to take too big of an advantage of the stacking bonuses -- they only last for 1 round.

Edit: Hmm forgot about the bonuses from the same source dealio.

2007-07-13, 01:26 PM
I rule 0 that bonuses from the same source don't stack, and spells/manoeuvres/items/etc are the same source even if they are cast/used/worn twice. It keeps the game a little more sane.

2007-07-13, 01:36 PM
Bonuses from the same exact source never stack. It's unnamed, which is great, so it stacks with bonuses from any different source. But not from the same exact maneuver/power/spell/etc. Otherwise, multiple Enlarge Persons would be very common.

2007-07-13, 01:37 PM
Spells don't stack anyways. I.e. 2 hastes in a row. Same with most items (though not all, like orange ioun stones).

Errr, Person, check the Blood In the Water (Tiger Claw) stance.

2007-07-13, 01:49 PM
There are always exceptions, but then they are explicitly called out as such.

As for orange ioun stones stacking, not with any sane DM.

2007-07-13, 01:55 PM
I'm sure blood in the water actually says "because", not "this is an exception", which implies that this is a consequence of the rules, not an exception. As I can see the book right now.

2007-07-13, 02:00 PM
As for orange ioun stones stacking, not with any sane DM.Or any DM following RAW. Caster level, as a numeric quality of a creature, is an attribute and thus falls under "same bonus from same source doesn't stack".

2007-07-13, 02:11 PM
I got that from a thread with some dubious rules interpretations. Wish and the Word? Anyone heard about that?

2007-07-13, 02:25 PM
yeah, I figured that you can't gain this bonus more than once in this fashion, which is why you can't have 28 lvl 1 swordsages all go vanguard strike on a single target, with the last one getting a ridiculous +112 to hit.

Still nifty that it's unnamed bonus though.

2007-07-13, 02:28 PM
What you can do, is have a warblade and crusader use vanguard strike, and leading the attack, for +8 to hit, which is really good.

2007-07-13, 02:35 PM
but wouldn't the fact that it's the same maneuver already mean that the bonus doesn't stack?

or can two entangles from two different wizards stack?

2007-07-13, 02:37 PM
Different manuvers. Leading the attack is a morale bonus, vanguard strike is unnamed, different manuvers, different sources.

EDIT: 2 entangles from two wizards wouldn't work, because Wizards can't cast Entangle! :smallbiggrin:

2007-07-13, 02:40 PM
yes.... of course... I was... um... testing you... yeah... that's it....

my bad, I read that wrong. But still, the fact that it's an unnamed bonus makes the maneuver that much more valuable in my eyes. Something tells me though that having something give an unnamed bonus usually should automatically boot up the level of that something by a little.