Is using an evil system's rules to turn it into a good system lawful good or CG?

[Zhentarim]

Just a late night question.

[enderlord99]

Lawful Good, probably. Mostly just Good though.

[Zanos]

Working within the system to improve it is pretty squarely LG.

[Crake]

I would say it depends on what "using an evil system's rules" means. Because I feel like if you're using an evil system, then you're probably not doing good things. If you're CHANGING an evil system into a good system sure, but if you're using tyranny and overly harsh laws to FORCE people into being good, then that's still evil, just with good intentions (road to hell is paved with good intentions etc etc).

[icefractal]

Depends on what other ways you had to change it.
If using the system's own rules was the best or only chance to make the change, then it's just good.
If you could have changed it more easily with other methods and chose to work within the rules instead, then maybe LG.
If working within the rules took so much longer that a lot of people suffered in the mean time, perhaps LN.

It's not inherently chaotic in any case, although a CG character would have no problem doing it in case 1, and possibly in case 2.

[Psyren]

Working within the system to improve it is pretty squarely LG.

This, but tempered by this:


I would say it depends on what "using an evil system's rules" means. Because I feel like if you're using an evil system, then you're probably not doing good things. If you're CHANGING an evil system into a good system sure, but if you're using tyranny and overly harsh laws to FORCE people into being good, then that's still evil, just with good intentions (road to hell is paved with good intentions etc etc).

[weckar]

Not sure in what way this is ever Chaotic. Whether discussing the intent or the letter of the law, they are all variations of Lawful (Evil tends to bend to the letter, Good tends to bend to the intent).

[Fouredged Sword]

I could see a trickster character doing something like this without being considered non-chaotic. This is an instance where intent matters. Are you using the system to flaunt it and tweek the nose of the evil fuddy dudies that their own adherence to law is their downfall? Chaotic good. Are you a good man in a bad system who holds to his own moral system and advances through an evil system out of pure ability and talent without compromising? Lawful good.

[weckar]

The character could still well be chaotic, the action is not - if only minorly so.

[Segev]

I assume from what was written that "using an evil system's rules" refers to working within it to get into a position of correct authority to change it. As long as you don't engage in evil on the way, that's LG. If you engage in evil along the way, it's anywhere from LE to LN, depending on how much evil you use and how willfully you pursue it.

i.e., do you do it because that's what the rules call for, or do you do it because choosing to do it allows you to get the power you need to change the system even though you could have chosen to avoid the evil (but not been able to change anything by so doing)?

[Gnaeus]

I thought this was about the development process from 4e to 5e.

[Coidzor]

Working within the bounds of the rules to change them is lawful through and through.

[Thealtruistorc]

I would say yes, as this is honestly how a lot of iconic LG figures in history and folklore operate. They see a system that is broken but wields immense power, and so they redirect that power into more productive methods.

However, utilizing a system is not necessarily exclusive to lawful characters. There are plenty of examples of characters who utilize rules to defend their good, evil, or even chaotic existences (Jubal Harshaw, one of the finest examples of a CN character I have ever seen, is known for using his legal knowledge to safeguard himself against threats). What matters about using a system is what goals you direct it towards, for chaotic good societies could operate upon establishments just as much as lawful evil ones can.

[Xuldarinar]

I'd say definitely LG, if we have to say that it is of a good alignment, but one could argue other ways.


A Chaotic Good individual could expose the flaws in a system and how it could be turned on its head for the better.

I.E. Pathfinder's Antipaladin states that they cannot altruistically commit good deeds. A CG individual could present the idea that doing good acts is in their best self interest. Saving those orphans is good for PR. Getting that kitten out of a tree affords one a little spending money. By doing this, one could wind up compelling/tricking/ect. an evil individual in committing good acts and possibly eventually shifting alignment.