Spells that never get used...but probably should be.

[JellyPooga]

On the back of the thread I started about the Moonbeam spell, I got to thinking about spells that don't see, perhaps, as much use as they should.

I'm not talking about shenanigans to get the most out of a spell, like I was talking about with Moonbeam, but spells that just...feel like they should be used more, but aren't.

For example; Inflict Wounds is a 1st level spell that deals 3d10 damage. Pretty darned good damage at 1st level, even 2nd or 3rd, but I almost never see it used because it's a one shot "miss and you lose it" kind of deal and there's better things to do with your 1st level slots like Bless or Shield of Faith. At higher levels, it scales pretty badly.

On the flipside, it feels like a lot more neutral and evil Clerics should be using Inflict Wounds; it's a pretty classic cinematic image. Think of the bad guy from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom chanting "molaram sholaram" (or whatever it is) as he struggles to rip the living heart from Indy's chest, or the image of a black-clad cultist, his hand glowing with baleful energy. Yeah, I get that most PC's are in the "hero" role and Inflict Wounds is definitely on the shady end of the alignment spectrum, but it just feels like it should get more screen time, you know?

One "fix" I considered was making it a Cantrip. Melee Spell Attack, 1d10 Necrotic damage (maybe 1d8 with a rider effect), scaling as other Cantrips do. I still don't think it'd see a lot of use, but more at least.

What other spells feel like they should be used more? How would you encourage their use?

[Douche]

I don't use Inflict Wounds on my cleric, cuz he's lawful good... but now that I have 5th level spells, I use Guided Bolt all the time. Doesn't matter if it misses, I never use all my 1st level spells anyway so I can throw out those Guided Bolts for some extra damage output.

[BDRook]

Dream is a great spell that I never see get any love! Basically you can enter the dream of anyone in the world and either converse with them OR if you hate them give them nightmares that give them psychic damage and deprive them of sleep for the night. So if you have a prissy NPC that's giving you grief just see how cocky he is when he's not able to sleep for 3 days.

I mean yeah they get to save for the damage, but chances are you're casting it at night anyway and if so will probably be able to get your spells back at the end of the night anyway.

[Falcon X]

I'm going to say a controversial one... Jump...
- Cast Jump on a 20Str Fighter and he can leap 60 feet towards a target with his move action, and it doesn't take concentration. (10' running start, 20' jump tripled.)

Obviously you have to be in a situation where you can precast it on a fighter. Should be a pretty cheap magic item though...

[ad_hoc]

I'm going to say a controversial one... Jump...
- Cast Jump on a 20Str Fighter and he can leap 60 feet towards a target with his move action, and it doesn't take concentration. (10' running start, 20' jump tripled.)

Obviously you have to be in a situation where you can precast it on a fighter. Should be a pretty cheap magic item though...

The jump distance is tripled but their movement rate stays the same, so they are still only typically moving 30' for their move. They need to use the dash action to go that far.

[AttilatheYeon]

I like Dissonent Whisper. If the high HP mob has multiple melee around it, the spell can generated a lot of damage.

When playing an Evoker, i'm very fond of Storm Sphere. I've been able to, with the help of a couple of tanks, lock a group of giants down with that spell. This made the fight trivially easy.

[JellyPooga]

The jump distance is tripled but their movement rate stays the same, so they are still only typically moving 30' for their move. They need to use the dash action to go that far.

Thief Rogue 3/Champion Fighter 7/Tiger Totem Barbarian 3
Wood Elf
Str:20, Dex:20 (somehow...good rolled stats, perhaps?)
Active Spells: Haste, Jump

Base speed: 35
Haste: +35
Bonus Action (Dash): +70
Total Speed: 140ft/round

Base Jump: 20ft
Remarkable Athlete: +5ft
Second Story Work: +5ft
Tiger Totem: +10ft
Jump: x3
Total Jump distance: 120ft

Totally legal and no-where near the max possible. You can take the Attack action at the end of it too. Twice. Three times if you Action Surge.

[famousringo]

I'm going to say a controversial one... Jump...
- Cast Jump on a 20Str Fighter and he can leap 60 feet towards a target with his move action, and it doesn't take concentration. (10' running start, 20' jump tripled.)

Obviously you have to be in a situation where you can precast it on a fighter. Should be a pretty cheap magic item though...

Jump should've been a bonus action. Then it could've been a neat little escape/mobility maneuver. A poor man's Misty Step like Expeditious Retreat is an el cheapo Haste.

I'm going to pick Wall of Water. Seems like a cool thing to conjure up, but messing up ranged attacks and costing a whole extra foot of movement to get through seems a little weak for a 3rd level spell, no? A similar effect can be achieved with Fog Cloud at level 1.

So I'd spice it up by adding a little water pressure. Make a Strength save (or maybe Athletics check) if you want to push through the wall. Now you've got a soft control effect that's like Wall of Stone/Force, but not as reliable. It'll do a lousy job of keeping big baddies at bay, but it will slow down hordes of little goblins.

[ad_hoc]

Thief Rogue 3/Champion Fighter 7/Tiger Totem Barbarian 3
Wood Elf
Str:20, Dex:20 (somehow...good rolled stats, perhaps?)
Active Spells: Haste, Jump

Base speed: 35
Haste: +35
Bonus Action (Dash): +70
Total Speed: 140ft/round

Base Jump: 20ft
Remarkable Athlete: +5ft
Second Story Work: +5ft
Tiger Totem: +10ft
Jump: x3
Total Jump distance: 120ft

Totally legal and no-where near the max possible. You can take the Attack action at the end of it too. Twice. Three times if you Action Surge.

Why is this a reply to my post?

[MaxWilson]

Dream is a great spell that I never see get any love! Basically you can enter the dream of anyone in the world and either converse with them OR if you hate them give them nightmares that give them psychic damage and deprive them of sleep for the night. So if you have a prissy NPC that's giving you grief just see how cocky he is when he's not able to sleep for 3 days.

I mean yeah they get to save for the damage, but chances are you're casting it at night anyway and if so will probably be able to get your spells back at the end of the night anyway.

Dream goes well with Geas to make sure that the subject doesn't just long-rest all the damage away.

[JellyPooga]

Why is this a reply to my post?

'Cos it's a way to get a lot out of the Jump spell without breaking movement restrictions. As you mention, it's pretty useless having triple your Jump distance if your speed is only 30ft. Using an Action to Dash for your 60ft jump isn't too useful. If your move speed is high, however, you can get a lot more out of your Jump. That build is a demonstration of one way to do so.

[Biggstick]

Unseen Servant.

Hand the little bugger a torch (or rock with Light cast on it) and have him/her/it walk 30-60' in front of the party while doing a dungeon crawl. The Servant is providing light that isn't on the party while tripping any of the ground based traps.

Bless.

I'm looking at groups that only have a Paladin in particular. Give up that concentration and run the buff spell that every group wants on them every combat!

Continual Flame.

For 50g and a level 2 slot, you can have an object "permanently" lit like a torch. Put this on a rock and you'll never have to worry about torches again.

Sending.

The ability to communicate with anyone on this plane could be invaluable in the right situation. Calling in reinforcements, getting a ship to come in from the sea, asking a question to a scholar in a library, etc etc.

Plant Growth.

To instantly create tons of difficult terrain and/or force combat in a way you want is so powerful. The other form is extremely useful for gaining a farmer's favor as well.

Knock.

What lock?

[MaxWilson]

'Cos it's a way to get a lot out of the Jump spell without breaking movement restrictions. As you mention, it's pretty useless having triple your Jump distance if your speed is only 30ft. Using an Action to Dash for your 60ft jump isn't too useful. If your move speed is high, however, you can get a lot more out of your Jump. That build is a demonstration of one way to do so.

But you are taking the Dash action in your example. It's right there in your post. It's responsible for 70' of your movement.

Jump honestly isn't contributing much to that build's mobility--it's all about the Haste.

I have found that a Paladorc who happens to know the Jump spell due to wild magic houserules will sometimes find it surprisingly non-useless, e.g. to attack vampires that are clinging to the ceiling while they regenerate. I bet Githyanki fortresses would also have great terrain for taking advantage of Jump. 20' high steps, 40' chasms, etc.


Unseen Servant.

Hand the little bugger a torch (or rock with Light cast on it) and have him/her/it walk 30-60' in front of the party while doing a dungeon crawl. The Servant is providing light that isn't on the party while tripping any of the ground based traps.

It can also lay caltrops/ball bearings and doesn't take concentration. Before you kick down a door and head into the dungeon, summon up two or three of them and give them all torches and a couple bags of caltrops.

[JellyPooga]

But you are taking the Dash action in your example. It's right there in your post. It's responsible for 70' of your movement.

As a Bonus Action, yes. The original notion was just a Str 20 Fighter, who would have to use his Action to Dash. A Rogue, doesn't.


Jump honestly isn't contributing much to that build's mobility--it's all about the Haste.

Jumping really isn't that useful, no, but if you must get something out of it...increasing your speed is the only way to do it, but by that point Fly or other fly speeds are pretty common, making Jump more or less irrelevant.

Having said that, at low levels, for low-strength builds, Jump can be handy. I've had some success doing a bit of a Belkar with a Str 8 Halfling and Boots of Striding and Springing. Going from "unable to clear a 10ft pit" to "casually able to leap a 20ft chasm" was pretty handy for a while.

[Douche]

Continual Flame.

For 50g and a level 2 slot, you can have an object "permanently" lit like a torch. Put this on a rock and you'll never have to worry about torches again.


Pshh, on a rock? What a pleb. Cast it on your Paladin's sword and have him be known as the Lightbringer to all the dumb peasants you come across.

[Biggstick]

Pshh, on a rock? What a pleb. Cast it on your Paladin's sword and have him be known as the Lightbringer to all the dumb peasants you come across.

Absolutely! That would be hilarious!

The only problem I ever see with doing this to a weapon is that there are times you'd like to walk around with a weapon un-sheathed and you don't want the light to still be on. Other then that though, pretty solid idea. :)

[lunaticfringe]

I am a Fan of Tidal Wave, which is never used by my players. I blame the Fact that it's a 3rd Level Spell & and there are a lot of Awesome 3rd Levels Spells out there.

I use Inflict all the damn time on my Clerics, even the good ones. Being a Bandaid gets tedious, it's fun to Bad Touch sometimes.

[JellyPooga]

Continual Flame.

For 50g and a level 2 slot, you can have an object "permanently" lit like a torch. Put this on a rock and you'll never have to worry about torches again.

I always preferred using Continual Flame on the wick of a hooded lantern as my first go-to. Does the same job as the lantern, except without needing to top it up with oil all the time.

Having a handful of rocks with Continual Flame on them is handy for making large areas of illumination with a single cast of your hand, leaving an easily identifiable trail, testing the depth of wells and chasms (assuming you want to go down it, otherwise just use the Light spell), playing silly buggers by putting one in a skull or helmet to make people think it's undead or animated, juggling with and all sorts of other household uses, like seeing under the sofa, attaching to your cart wheels or undercarriage for that pimpin' look and so forth.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Oddly enough, my gaming group actually uses nearly all of these "spells that never get used." (Dream is one of my absolute favorites!)

Does that mean we're doing something right? :cool:

[Zene]

I like Dissonent Whisper. If the high HP mob has multiple melee around it, the spell can generated a lot of damage.


Most bards I play with don't use this anywhere near enough --I've even seen a situation where an enemy was adjacent to three melee-ers (including a rogue, and a cleric w/ booming blade and warcaster), and the bard was like "I don't have anything useful I can do here".

Bless is similar. If there's a rogue in my party, and/or anyone in the party with GWM/Sharpshooter, it's usually better than almost anything else I can use my concentration on as a cleric or paladin. Yet I see a lot of folks never cast it.

After reading this thread, I realize I myself have been guilty of underusing continual flame and plant growth. Soon to be remedied!

[Zene]

Oh, and I have a couple contenders for most overused spells:
-Suggestion
-Charm Person

These can both be great spells. But at least in the AL games I've played:
-It seems like the people who use them, use them all the time; and
-It often takes an encounter that was meant to be fun/challenging/interesting for the whole party, and instead turns it into a boring cakewalk (if they are used successfully) or at least, (if they are used unsuccessfully) introduces a long delay during which only the DM and one character are interacting, and isn't very interesting for the rest of the group to watch. Especially annoying on boss encounters.


(If this is too far off-topic, I apologize)

[Falcon X]

The jump distance is tripled but their movement rate stays the same, so they are still only typically moving 30' for their move. They need to use the dash action to go that far.
IDK, sounds more like a DM ruling to me based on what you think is being tripled.

[JellyPooga]

IDK, sounds more like a DM ruling to me based on what you think is being tripled.

Jumping rules specify that every foot of distance jumped counts as a foot of your movement for the turn. If your max jump is greater than your speed, you can only jump as far as your speed allows.

[Ashuan21]

Inflict Wounds is great, my Death Domain Cleric used it all the times through its familiar (Magic Initiate - Wizard) for huge damage.
If you happen to be lucky and crit... well then you are throwing a ton of D10!

If your DM rules that you can use Touch of Death (Death's channel divinity) through the familiar as you cast Inflict Wounds then this becomes truly wonderful.

While I can see some reluctancy in playing a Death Domain Cleric I honestly can't understand all these stories about avoiding necrotic damage... If a baddie is a baddie none is going to complain about how you killed him come on! Even if you use radiant damage you are still killing someone, should good aligned PCs only "Expelliarmus" bad guys?

[Cybren]

Spells that should be get used?

I'll say a spell I rarely use as often as I want to is faerie fire, because generally my party closes into melee to early before i can hit it, or we're facing only one or two enemies so there's a more efficient use of my concentration. I should probably be casting faerie fire more than I do

[Shining Wrath]

Silence. Even with the 5e nerfing you can force casters to move toward the people with the sharp things.

[Ashrym]

Hunger of Hadar. It's blindness and difficult terrain and continuous cold damage and continuous acid damage.

Meld into Stone. It can be cast as an action or a ritual, lasts up to 8 hours, and the melded caster can only be detected by magic. It requires stone in which to hide but it's a snazzy hiding spell.

Gust of Wind. It's cheap as a second level spell for control with a continuous push effect.

Sleet Storm. The area is 40 ft radius in a third level spell that creates difficult terrain, heavy obscure mentioned, continuous saves or prone, and forces concentration saves in the area on spell casters.

[Addaran]

Hunger of Hadar. It's blindness and difficult terrain and continuous cold damage and continuous acid damage.

Sleet Storm. The area is 40 ft radius in a third level spell that creates difficult terrain, heavy obscure mentioned, continuous saves or prone, and forces concentration saves in the area on spell casters.

Hunger of Hadar is insane if the warlock can see in it and the party is mostly ranged or have good control abilities.

I've used sleet storm with an NPC, without knowing what it really did first. That spell is a giant F*** you to everyone in the fight.

[Foxhound438]

Bless.

I'm looking at groups that only have a Paladin in particular. Give up that concentration and run the buff spell that every group wants on them every combat!


*every paladin I've ever built*

"SEE?! SEEEEE?! I AM DOING IT RIGHT! AND YOU ALL SAID NOOOOOOOOO, SHIELD OF FAITH IS SOOOOO MUCH BETTER"

[rant continues for hours]

[Occasional Sage]

Prestidigitation should get more love. It's endlessly spamable and does so many useful things for the character: you never have to wash clothes again, all your meals taste great, your coffee stays hot all day, you never have to hunt for (or even carry) many small widgets....


I always preferred using Continual Flame on the wick of a hooded lantern as my first go-to. Does the same job as the lantern, except without needing to top it up with oil all the time.

Having a handful of rocks with Continual Flame on them is handy for making large areas of illumination with a single cast of your hand, leaving an easily identifiable trail, testing the depth of wells and chasms (assuming you want to go down it, otherwise just use the Light spell), playing silly buggers by putting one in a skull or helmet to make people think it's undead or animated, juggling with and all sorts of other household uses, like seeing under the sofa, attaching to your cart wheels or undercarriage for that pimpin' look and so forth.

Bonus points (which take me back to the early 90s): coat the Light-ed rock (has to be palm-sized or more for the weight) with heavy, clay-y soil and set it by the fire overnight. Now, you have Light grenades to flash-dazzle all those underground dwellers!



While I can see some reluctancy in playing a Death Domain Cleric I honestly can't understand all these stories about avoiding necrotic damage... If a baddie is a baddie none is going to complain about how you killed him come on! Even if you use radiant damage you are still killing someone, should good aligned PCs only "Expelliarmus" bad guys?


The road to Hell is paved with Good intentions. There are soooo many real-world examples that board rules prevent, because it treads into political territory. Just look at the concept of the anti-villain and you'll see where that logic leads.

ETA: Do I mean anti-hero? I always confuse the two.

[Kane0]

Blade Ward
True Strike
Spare the Dying
Jump
Illusory Script
Witch Bolt
Enthrall
Cloud of Daggers
Beacon of Hope
Feign Death
Nondetection
Awaken
Tree Stride
Mordenkainen's Sword
Seeming
Programmed Illusion

Granted some of these really should get buffed but theres a ton of spells that could get more use. Variety is the spice of life and all that.

[Zalabim]

Darkness automatically dispels any spell of 2nd level or lower that emits any area of light that overlaps with the area of darkness. This means Darkness snuffs out great spells like Light, Continual Flame, Moonbeam, Flaming Sphere, and Faerie Fire.

[djreynolds]

I like inflict wounds, its in your spellbook and it very potent.

I mean you can burn them with scared flame or smash the with your mace.... but necrotic damage is evil.

I like warding bond, good spell.

[Sirdar]

Blight

"Necromantic energy washes over a creature of your choice that you can see within range, draining moisture and vitality from it."

This is the spell I would like my Warlock to cast instead of Fireball (when I get access to it), but it seems to be utterly inferior. I will have to cast it anyway just for flavor! (Muahahaha!)

[Quoxis]

I'm currently playing a death cleric, inflict wounds is my main damage dealing spell (though i rarely use it, our party needs constant healing, so the guy that worships death has to run around preventing it from happening...)
On lower levels it can end battles quickly, while our fighters dealt with two opponents i took out the other two by myself by touching them to death.
I think compared to other spells it has a rather high damage potential and it Deals necrotic damage which next to nothing is resistent or immune against.
I personally like using it.

[LordVonDerp]

On the flipside, it feels like a lot more neutral and evil Clerics should be using Inflict Wounds; it's a pretty classic cinematic image.

Yeah, I get that most PC's are in the "hero" role and Inflict Wounds is definitely on the shady end of the alignment spectrum, but it just feels like it should get more screen time, you know?

Why shouldn't a good cleric use inflict wounds?

[JellyPooga]

Why shouldn't a good cleric use inflict wounds?

There's really no reason why not, but the association between necrotic energy and Evil is strong. It's the damage type of the Undead, death and corruption; not something Good characters typically mess with on a regular basis. If it had a "choose your damage type" clause like Spirit Guardians, I'd be more on board with Good Clerics using it more frequently, but it doesn't; it's a spell that deals necrotic damage and that makes it a bit shady, just as Blight and Finger of Death should be considered more than a little taboo.

It's just not the sort of thing you expect Brother Goodly McHealbot the Pious to be using.

[INDYSTAR188]

There's really no reason why not, but the association between necrotic energy and Evil is strong. It's the damage type of the Undead, death and corruption; not something Good characters typically mess with on a regular basis. If it had a "choose your damage type" clause like Spirit Guardians, I'd be more on board with Good Clerics using it more frequently, but it doesn't; it's a spell that deals necrotic damage and that makes it a bit shady, just as Blight and Finger of Death should be considered more than a little taboo.

It's just not the sort of thing you expect Brother Goodly McHealbot the Pious to be using.

I think its similar in concept to a fire mage casting ice spells. Can they do it, sure! Its just slightly off-trope (in my opinion).

[Lemunde]

I posted in a different thread earlier about Detect Poison and Disease. It's something I think comes up a lot more often than people realize. Any fans of Critical Role? You know that evil green dragon that keeps sneaking around, masquerading as a halfling and the players always have a problem pinpointing exactly where she is? This spell would take care of all that. No more backstabbing illusions.

[Crgaston]

The jump distance is tripled but their movement rate stays the same, so they are still only typically moving 30' for their move. They need to use the dash action to go that far.
This is one off the dumbest rulings in the game (not you, you're technically 100% correct). It's a spell that has zero effect on total move to anyone over strength 10. Fly gives you 60', doesn't rely on a running start and doesn't require you to end your turn on the ground and lasts 10 times as long, and can be upcast.

It's Magic. You ought to be able to jump really far.

[JellyPooga]

This is one off the dumbest rulings in the game (not you, you're technically 100% correct). It's a spell that has zero effect on total move to anyone over strength 10. Fly gives you 60', doesn't rely on a running start and doesn't require you to end your turn on the ground and lasts 10 times as long, and can be upcast.

It's Magic. You ought to be able to jump really far.

It might seem dumb, but it's just part of the abstraction of combat. Out of combat, you can jump as far as you like because you're not so limited by your movement speed. Requiring the use of your Action to jump further than your base speed is representative of putting your full effort behind it; something that can be assumed is the case in a non-combat situation. It's fairly rare that triple your jump distance will exceed double your movement.

Just my interpretation.