Upcoming paladin concept.

[VoltaicVitriol]

Our current campaign is going to end soon. And I've decided to take a break from being a pirate. So my next character will be a paladin. Specifically a Paladin with the Oah of the Ancients, and a 3 or 4 level splash of Fey-blade-lock. The idea is to be a knight sworn into service to the Wild Hunt (the germannic mythology one not tbe Witcher one).

I am unsure which race fits this concept best, whether or not feats would aid or detract from it, etc.

Pretty sure 2, 4, and 6 will be my dip levels. If I take a fourth level of Warlock it likely won't be until 19-20.

So what optimization advice can anyone offer for this concept?

[Biggstick]

Polearm Mastery, Tomelock (with Find Familiar, Shillelagh, and Guidance at least), and maxed out Charisma.

A Human would be great in being able to pick up PAM right away. The main thing you need to worry about though is your Charisma and when you can pick up Shillelagh. You'll be able to rock a 16 Str and 16 Cha right from the start, and that 16 Str can carry you until you get PAM and more Cha.

I personally prefer being able to pick up level 5 Paladin spells (Paladin 17), but if the ASI is more important to you (Warlock 4), go for it.

Otherwise, this is an extremely strong character that is SAD (Charisma). That's a pretty cool thing on a Paladin.

[tieren]

I am working on something similar but planning a more even mix (12/8 or 8/12 haven't decided yet).

Out of curiosity, what high level paladin features are you looking forward to that you don't want to go deeper in warlock? Misty escape at feylock 6 is a pretty neat ability, and of course raising the level of those short rest recharging pact slots can really help out your smiting.

It looks like you are already planning on starting paladin, that is important for the armor proficiency. I would go to at least paladin 2 before dipping to lock so you get spell casting and smites.

Half elf is probably going to be the way to go for you.

[Biggstick]

I am working on something similar but planning a more even mix (12/8 or 8/12 haven't decided yet).

Out of curiosity, what high level paladin features are you looking forward to that you don't want to go deeper in warlock? Misty escape at feylock 6 is a pretty neat ability, and of course raising the level of those short rest recharging pact slots can really help out your smiting.

It looks like you are already planning on starting paladin, that is important for the armor proficiency. I would go to at least paladin 2 before dipping to lock so you get spell casting and smites.

Half elf is probably going to be the way to go for you.

The OP is going OotA, meaning his late game Paladin (level 9 and beyond) includes:

9: Level 3 spells.
10: Fear immunity aura.
11: Improved Divine Smite. If the PC has PAM, IDS is applied to every reaction and bonus action attack. Extremely powerful level.
12: ASI
13: Level 4 spells. Ice Storm is pretty sweet, and the PC will have a maxed out Charisma at this point.
14: Cleansing Touch. This fits extremely well with an OotA Paladin. This is also an extremely powerful ability that can ensure someone isn't under the negative effects of a spell.
15: Undying Sentinel. Built in Deathward is pretty fantastic.
16: ASI
17: Level 5 spells. Hello Destructive Wave.
And the OP can actually go any race they want. Since they only need to max out Charisma, they can play a race that doesn't have a Charisma modifier and still be just fine.

[CaptainSarathai]

Wait, so you're only going Pal17/Lock3? What do you want that high from an Ancients Pally? You know that as soon as you MC out, you muck up your spell-slots, right? You'll only have slots like an 8th level caster.

What do you want from Warlock that you're going to 3 but not 4, and not just stopping at 2?
I'd flip that around. I wouldn't take an Ancients Paladin past 8th level. Warlock 12 gets you 3 slots, 5th level, renewing. With Blade (you honestly may as well, with Paladin giving you armor and styles) you get +Cha to damage.

Can you post an idea what your build looks like by level, or at least, what you're planning to do and how you see this combo playing out?

[Biggstick]

Wait, so you're only going Pal17/Lock3? What do you want that high from an Ancients Pally? You know that as soon as you MC out, you muck up your spell-slots, right? You'll only have slots like an 8th level caster.

The spell slots aren't mucked up, the build merely has an additional two level 2 spells that refresh on a short rest. And yes, a 17th level Paladin only counts as an 8th level caster which is still pretty solid.


What do you want from Warlock that you're going to 3 but not 4, and not just stopping at 2?
I'd flip that around. I wouldn't take an Ancients Paladin past 8th level. Warlock 12 gets you 3 slots, 5th level, renewing. With Blade (you honestly may as well, with Paladin giving you armor and styles) you get +Cha to damage.

Shillelagh from Pact of the Tome. This grants access to rituals as well as two level 2 spell slots. It also allows the PC to have access to Paladin 17 (level 5 spells).

Not that it's a big deal, but you're going to be extremely MAD with Pact of the Blade in requiring both Strength and Charisma to be maxed out. This leaves little room for additional feats.

Your suggested build is definitely viable though.


Can you post an idea what your build looks like by level, or at least, what you're planning to do and how you see this combo playing out?

The OP asked for what they think would be an optimized build for this character. Meaning we're the one's providing ideas on how to play out their suggested combination of classes.

[gfishfunk]

How about Half-Elf?

A child of elves raised among humans but desperately seeking that elf-kin, fey that is in the blood from a parent that the elf had never known.

Good Charisma and two additional +1s for where you want them. Not too shabby.

[Tauguy628]

Something else fun for a fey themed character might be the brand new bard college of glamour UA (http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_Bard.pdf) (if DM allows).

[Foxhound438]

I have played an OoA pally with the fey lock dip, and made the poor choice of splitting levels too early. I highly recommend waiting until at least after you have extra attack, if not aura of protection as well, before adding other class levels.

I must say, I did like the character from a lot of perspectives: flavor, mechanical benefits of short rest spell slots, and of course being a ditzy paladin accidentally making pacts with morally questionable figures is fun to RP.

Feels badman about not ever being able to get the pally capstone, but in a game that's projected to only go to something like 9th or 15th level the warlock dip is really good. In the prior case, 3 warlock levels loses you an ASI, a spell damage resistance aura, and 3rd level spells (when you're probably still rocking bless as your spell of choice), and in the latter you miss 4th level spells (again, still using bless probably), cleansing touch, and a 1/day death ward effect. In both cases, nothing to write home about. If the campaign is supposed to be out to 20th, though, I really recommend pure pally. Warlock looks really attractive early on when you only have a few slots to spend per day, but ultimately you will have enough from paladin to get through the day smiting everything to dust.

Blade pact is pretty bad here though, since you already have all martial and simple weapons proficiency, and the big ticket item is way past anything you want to go to (12th level). I personally like chain pact for the nice scout, and tome is potentially really good for making you SAD with shillelagh.

[djreynolds]

Harpoon, or use a spear that triggers ensnaring strike

[VoltaicVitriol]

Blade pact is pretty bad here though, since you already have all martial and simple weapons proficiency, and the big ticket item is way past anything you want to go to (12th level). I personally like chain pact for the nice scout, and tome is potentially really good for making you SAD with shillelagh.

I really think Blade Pact gets more hate than it deserves. It is slightly better than the Eldritch Knight Bound Weapon class feature. It actually makes any weapon you pick magical by default. An early-game magic weapon is a huge boon. I'll agree that Chain Pact is useful (my DM LOATHES our party warlock's Imp familiar), but Blade gives you a default magic weapon you can never loose. Not a good choice for a straight warlock but for a martial dipping it is not a bad choice.

[Biggstick]

I really think Blade Pact gets more hate than it deserves. It is slightly better than the Eldritch Knight Bound Weapon class feature. It actually makes any weapon you pick magical by default. An early-game magic weapon is a huge boon. I'll agree that Chain Pact is useful (my DM LOATHES our party warlock's Imp familiar), but Blade gives you a default magic weapon you can never loose. Not a good choice for a straight warlock but for a martial dipping it is not a bad choice.

Paladin's have Magic Weapon on their spell list. It lasts for an hour and takes a bonus action to cast. And available at level 5.

You can use it on any weapon you happen to have on hand too.

[Foxhound438]

I really think Blade Pact gets more hate than it deserves. It is slightly better than the Eldritch Knight Bound Weapon class feature. It actually makes any weapon you pick magical by default. An early-game magic weapon is a huge boon. I'll agree that Chain Pact is useful (my DM LOATHES our party warlock's Imp familiar), but Blade gives you a default magic weapon you can never loose. Not a good choice for a straight warlock but for a martial dipping it is not a bad choice.

remember that if you get blade pact anywhere before level 8 total you're delaying your extra attack significantly. I'd assume you would have something magical by then, or otherwise shortly after.

[Willie the Duck]

Blade pact is better if you only wanted to go Paladin 2 to get the smiting, and then full warlock. Tomelock is good for a shillelagh build (although if you take the advice of waiting until you get extra attack to dip warlock, you're waiting until what, level 8 to get your main attack attribute to kick in?)

[rbstr]

The thing about Bladelock, above all, is that it's cool.

If you're a cool Paladin out there to smite wrongs and right evil a sweet sword is way good and cool and better than super lame ritual spells and poking things with a glow stick. Plus that Tomelock Shillelagh/PAM variant human will feel bad and dumb when a Holy Avenger or otherwise cool, sharp object drops. (And that's the most glowing review it gets. At worst its borderline-cheesy literalist-rules over consistency junk when trying to use the PAM bonus action attack and wear a shield).

Any race that'll give you decent Strength/Charisma is a good pick really. Half Elf with the Eladrin magic instead of extra skills could be really cool. Variant human + Heavy Armor master is sweet in the early levels or you could PAM at the very start with a big and cool polearm.

I wouldn't pick up warlock levels before you get extra attack though. Maybe one or two levels after Paly2 for eldritch blast + cha damage and you can pick up green flame or booming blade to kinda make up for the lack of extra attack?

[Foxhound438]

Tomelock is good for a shillelagh build (although if you take the advice of waiting until you get extra attack to dip warlock, you're waiting until what, level 8 to get your main attack attribute to kick in?)

kind of, but you can start with a 16 str, 16 cha and up charisma at pal 4 (as I normally would, but that's just me), and then when you hit total level 8 you're effectively getting a strength bump*, and then when you go back to paladin for P8 you get to double-dip your value at total level 11. It's not half bad, honestly, but personally I'd stick to pure pally 7 times out of 10. Bonus points for the fact that you open up a couple of ASI's for something like inspiring leader.

[Arkhios]

Wait, so you're only going Pal17/Lock3? What do you want that high from an Ancients Pally? You know that as soon as you MC out, you muck up your spell-slots, right? You'll only have slots like an 8th level caster.

Well, actually multiclassing paladin with warlock doesn't muck up your spell slots since Pact Magic is different from Spellcasting - that is to say they don't stack, and thus a 17th level paladin actually has spell slots of a 9th level caster. :)

[Hudsonian]

I thought this looked interesting, but not as optimized as Sorcadin.


http://imgur.com/a/ZJK3U