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Atarax
2016-11-14, 05:49 PM
Backstory: My group was sent by the local thieves guild on a side quest to take out a band of highwaymen working for their rivals. They tracked the bandits down into their hideout in a cave and incinerated them (in a slightly horrifying display of the power of their new spell, fireball). They find a scepter of ancient make in the bandits' hoard. It's obviously magical. When I planned this out, I figured they'd need to take it back to the city to have some research done on it (thereby giving me time to plan out what info they would learn about it). Unfortunately for me, I hadn't remembered that the party's wizard had a scroll of identify on him. So he casts it, and I tell him everything. It came out really good too. Like I had been 100% ready to answer this question. I tell him that the scepter was used by the last king of the nearby ruined city of Varadinum to seal the city's treasure in a hidden vault before the empire rolled in and took over. The empire never finds it because the vault can only be revealed by the scepter which by that time had been taken far from the city.

The ruins of Varadinum are currently inhabited by a beholder and his minions. There is also a crew of a secret society of necromancers there looking for something. I'm thinking of also having a faction of neutral or Monstrous creatures/people who can be influenced to cooperate with the pcs.

Now...I need the players to find the vault after having explored the ruined city. and puzzle it open with the scepter (Indiana Jones style). I need them to find part of an ancient magical device there which will be part of the campaign arc. My problem is that I said "the city's treasure" would be in the vault. I can't let them have an entire city's treasure!!! Just the artifact.

Any ideas?

aberratio ictus
2016-11-14, 06:03 PM
Simple - the treasure is there, but it is worthless.

Maybe they were an advanced enough civilization to use paper money - but without the kingdom, it`s just paper.
Maybe they were using a type of metal for their coins that was rare in their kingdom, but which is abundant in the Empire. Maybe it rusted.
Something like that. :smallwink:

My advice would be to put at least some valuables in the vault, so that your players aren`t too disappointed.

Calen
2016-11-14, 06:04 PM
Maybe a large part of the treasure is now worthless. Rust monsters ate all the armor. They were a nation that pioneered the use of bank-notes which are no longer accepted. A rift in the earth has opened swallowing large amounts of treasure. A dragon found and took some of it to its hoard. The nation was in serious debt and did not have large amounts of money when it was conquered (wars are expensive).

All that said give the players something in the vault besides the artifact. But give ideas of what happened to the rest of the treasure so that it feels like it makes sense in the world and you just aren't "cheating" them.

--------

Alternate Idea

Give them all the treasure...and then use it against them. :nale::xykon::redcloak: How are they going to transport it? How are they going to avoid it being stolen? How are they going to spend these unusual coins that no one trusts?

Knaight
2016-11-14, 06:12 PM
Maybe it just wasn't that rich of a city to begin with - the population was relatively small, a lot of their wealth is tied up in things like buildings, etc.

LibraryOgre
2016-11-14, 06:33 PM
Really dark answer: It's filled with the skeletons of children... and this artifact.

Rogozhin
2016-11-14, 06:49 PM
Simple - the treasure is there, but it is worthless.



Love this!

Remember the old folks song "One Tin Soldier"? It's about two rival peoples, one of whom guards a great treasure. The folks without the treasure attack the other and a terribly bloody war ensues, which they eventually win. When they finally uncover the rock... "peace on earth was all it said".


That or its just horribly horribly cursed.

Koo Rehtorb
2016-11-14, 06:50 PM
I'd be kind of tempted to turn this into a thing in and of itself. So they open the vault and it's filled with tens of thousands of pounds of gold bullion. What do they even do with it?

They could probably carry a few hundred pounds back and make a tidy profit. Or they get overcome with greed and spend a bunch of time trying to engineer sleds and find horses to pull them or whatever and then you have free reign to ambush them with every bandit in the region. Or they leave most of it there and plan on coming back later, naturally they can't reseal the vault again because they don't know how, and when they get back they find the rest of it gone.

If you don't want to derail everything into "How do we deal with all this gold?!" though then other people have covered how to make it worthless to them already. Really though, having (literal) tons of cumbersome treasure isn't all fun and games. There's all sorts of interesting problems that can arise because of that.

Dellis
2016-11-14, 06:54 PM
Idea: "the city's treasure" IS just the artifact. Maybe it was so important to the city, it was thought of by all inhabitants as the city's true treasure. If you had asked any inhabitant of the city before the fall what was the city's treasure, he'd answer "the artifact" without thinking a second on it.

Not knowing what the artifact does I can't be more specific, but you can justify its importance for the city and/or the citizens in various ways: examples, it had historical significance, it was tied to a well-beloved figure (the founder of the city), its powers made it invaluable to the citizens...

LibraryOgre
2016-11-14, 06:54 PM
Ooooh! Ancient, mostly-dead god, and the artifact!

Rockphed
2016-11-14, 06:58 PM
So, essentially, you are trying to figure out how to give some adventurers access to a vault that probably contains a few things that are valuable without having to give them an empire's riches? Simple! Give them the crown jewels of the empire. The last king sealed the vault with his scepter before going off to war and nobody knew how to open it when he and his army got eaten by a dragon on the way back. The scepter has been floating around, slowly drifting back to Varadinum, for the last 100 years.

As to what the crown jewels are, it will be a crown or two, some necklaces, and the imperial ceremonial robes.

Pauly
2016-11-14, 07:40 PM
The city's treasure, not treasury, is what you said right?

That opens the scope for:-
- Ceremonial items with limited gold value but huge sentimental value.
- Historical items of value to the city, for example the magic weapons of the city's founders and great heroes.
- Something like the Mona Lisa, a treasure so famous and valuable it is effectively worthless to a normal party. i.e. they don't have the contacts to sell it and if anyone finds out they have it they become the target of every thieves guild on not just this world but the next 7 planes.
- The written records indicating the last king had spent almost all of it on defending the city and a big IOU.
- Books and assorted histories (library of Alexandria scenario). Maybe a few magic scroll equivalents.
- Some kind of genie, or equivalent, that is bound to the city. i.e. a non portable resource who will help them in future adventuring, or a quest giver who gives them a quest to free him/her from the magic binding.

Cernor
2016-11-14, 07:44 PM
If gold is as rare and valuable as it is IRL (A long shot, I know...) then most of the empire's wealth might be in goods and services rather than bullion. Sure, there'd be a small fortune in gold and jewels, but the majority of the wealth could be in deeds and land claims: instead of 100,000 gold coins, add a claim to a mine (now infested by monsters) or a favour owed by an allied empire (I.O.U. One thousand troops for one month). Not to mention granaries, paintings, and other things which would crumble to dust once the party finds it.

OldTrees1
2016-11-14, 07:55 PM
Now...I need the players to find the vault after having explored the ruined city. and puzzle it open with the scepter (Indiana Jones style). I need them to find part of an ancient magical device there which will be part of the campaign arc. My problem is that I said "the city's treasure" would be in the vault. I can't let them have an entire city's treasure!!! Just the artifact.

Any ideas?

Please detail why they can't get that much coinage. This will help calibrate answers.


Accessing the treasure is noisy and the modern denizens of the city can overwhelm the party. So the party has a timed escape from the city carrying as much wealth as they can. After they escape, the rest of the wealth is picked clean by the modern denizens of the city.

Broutchev
2016-11-14, 11:53 PM
Undeground ultra-fertile lands capable of sustaining the entire empire in crops with a lot less of the workforce... is a treasure on it's own.

For an empire's point of view a treasure can be a lot different than from the PC's POW.

Fri
2016-11-15, 12:06 AM
The city's treasure...

Is knowledge :smallbiggrin:

I had a kinda similar story once. It's a modern post-apocalyptic setting, and there's this forgotten vault where a pre-apocalyptic country is said to store necessary preparation to conquer the post apocalypse. People basically thought it's some old weapons of mass destructions, but it turned out to be knowledge, books and records and such needed for the post apocalypse.

Atarax
2016-11-15, 12:12 AM
Please detail why they can't get that much coinage. This will help calibrate answers.

They're only 6th level. They already possess enough wealth for their level. I think if I gave them a small city's treasure, I'd be unbalancing the game.

Clarifications: This would've been a mostly indepent city-state (modeled on Mycenae) (because cyclopean walls). As the (pretty much reskinned Roman) empire encroached on the city, the last in the original line of kings hid the city's most valuable treasures and the artifact in a magically concealed and locked subterranean vault. When the city fell soon after, the new imperial rulers never found the hidden vault. Then it was forgotten altogether. This all happened six centuries ago. A cataclysm and plague happened four centuries ago.

The artifact is one of eight crystals lost by a much more ancient and magically advanced civilization. When placed at an intersection of ley lines, the proper technology/rituals will allow the crystal to project the natural magic from the ley lines up to a small, crystalline moon/satellite. The magical energy is then refracted back down to the crystal itself. Alone, the crystal can dramatically boost the magic of those wielding its power. If multiple crystals are activated, the crystal moon can basically become a death ray. It's what ended the ancient civilization that originally discovered all this.

RazorChain
2016-11-15, 12:30 AM
The city spent all it's valuables on the war with the empire. Wars are expensive

Atarax
2016-11-15, 12:47 AM
The city's treasure...

Is knowledge :smallbiggrin:

I had a kinda similar story once. It's a modern post-apocalyptic setting, and there's this forgotten vault where a pre-apocalyptic country is said to store necessary preparation to conquer the post apocalypse. People basically thought it's some old weapons of mass destructions, but it turned out to be knowledge, books and records and such needed for the post apocalypse.

Not far off at all! My artifact is a WMD, but not many people remember what it is and almost no one remembers how to use it. The necromancers searching the city are part of a secret society possessing vague knowledge of ancient secrets like this. They may have collected others like it already. So the knowledge turns out to be the real treasure after all.

Pex
2016-11-15, 12:51 AM
The artifact is the "treasure". It was the city's most prized possession so the Vault was built specifically to hold it; hence the extra security with the magical staff being the only way to get in.

Doesn't hurt to have other valuables in the Vault in coins and maybe other magic items, but it's not like just because you said "treasure" it must mean millions gp worth of stuff.

Ninjadeadbeard
2016-11-15, 01:56 AM
- Ceremonial items with limited gold value but huge sentimental value.
- Historical items of value to the city, for example the magic weapons of the city's founders and great heroes.
- Something like the Mona Lisa, a treasure so famous and valuable it is effectively worthless to a normal party. i.e. they don't have the contacts to sell it and if anyone finds out they have it they become the target of every thieves guild on not just this world but the next 7 planes.


Honestly OP, THIS is what you want to do.

In addition, have some sort of creature and/or the Beholder have dug into the vault from underground and stole most of the treasure for other schemes, leaving only a little bit behind for the players to steal. Or have some sort of big f!&^-off monster set up to kill intruders that the PCs can't possibly defeat...but can most certainly outrun if they just grab a sackfull of coin and book it.

Bohandas
2016-11-15, 03:34 AM
*nobody can figure out how to use this stuff
*these items are out of charges
*the overwhelming aura of the artifact has corrupted enchantments of the other magic items, making them function unreliably at best
*coins are made of a metal that while rare is not a common commodity and difficult to trade
*a single enormous pillar of gold (or other precious metal) that won't fit out the door or into any standard extradimensional transport item and, needless to say, is too heavy to teleport
*portals into auxillary chambers have collapsed
*most/many items are in a Living Vault (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/livingVault.htm) impervious to any weapons or magic available to the PCs at their current level

PersonMan
2016-11-15, 04:06 AM
They're only 6th level. They already possess enough wealth for their level. I think if I gave them a small city's treasure, I'd be unbalancing the game.

Are the PCs able to buy magic items and such with gold?

If not, you could give them large sums of money with the (implicit or explicit) understanding that this will basically be used to pay for room and board, various luxuries, taxes, any random expenses (stuff like "you need an outfit that costs Y or more to not be out of place in the party you're infiltrating") - basically turn it into an asset the party can use to make their lives a bit easier, rather than using it all in a short time frame.

Storm_Of_Snow
2016-11-15, 06:08 AM
What about things like rare and exotic wines that have long since gone sour, once fine silks and tapestries that have rotted or been used by generations of mice for nests, or you could have treasure vaults that have either completely collapsed, burying the treasure under several thousand tons of rock or dropping it into the depths of the earth, or were looted centuries ago and so on.

Herobizkit
2016-11-15, 06:51 AM
Vampire princess/heir.

Yeah, I've recently been playing Skyrim's Dawnguard DLC. :thog:

GungHo
2016-11-15, 09:24 AM
A giant box of water chips... incredibly useful during the last game, but useless right now.


The city's treasure...

Is knowledge :smallbiggrin:
Unfortunately, these people are incredibly stupid, and it's just coloring books. And they didn't even stay within the lines.

shadow_archmagi
2016-11-15, 10:44 AM
They're only 6th level. They already possess enough wealth for their level. I think if I gave them a small city's treasure, I'd be unbalancing the game.

Suggestion: Unbalance the game. Give them a million gold. See what each of them does with a couple hundred thousand. It'll be fun! If you get to the point where you're saying "Okay so my PCs built a battle fortress on top of a dragon and have been solving problems with airstrikes" then it sounds like everyone is having fun and you're generating cool stories, so you're doing D&D successfully. Don't be so concerned with making your game be exactly average.

I'd much rather have the problem of "What kind of challenges can I throw at my players now that they command Castle Dragonback?" than the problem of "My players are sad because I told them I'd give them lots of money and then it wasn't lots of money"


---
EDIT: I decided to use ACKS to crunch some numbers about how much gold should be in the vault of a small city anyway. (Note: ACKS prices and 5e prices line up pretty well.) Depending on how you measure it, anything from 20k to 100k would be reasonable. That's, what, the gold-equivalent of one or two neat magic items for every PC? That makes it a pretty good day, but hardly game-breaking.

Stealth Marmot
2016-11-15, 12:45 PM
Backstory: My group was sent by the local thieves guild on a side quest to take out a band of highwaymen working for their rivals. They tracked the bandits down into their hideout in a cave and incinerated them (in a slightly horrifying display of the power of their new spell, fireball). They find a scepter of ancient make in the bandits' hoard. It's obviously magical. When I planned this out, I figured they'd need to take it back to the city to have some research done on it (thereby giving me time to plan out what info they would learn about it). Unfortunately for me, I hadn't remembered that the party's wizard had a scroll of identify on him. So he casts it, and I tell him everything. It came out really good too. Like I had been 100% ready to answer this question. I tell him that the scepter was used by the last king of the nearby ruined city of Varadinum to seal the city's treasure in a hidden vault before the empire rolled in and took over. The empire never finds it because the vault can only be revealed by the scepter which by that time had been taken far from the city.

The ruins of Varadinum are currently inhabited by a beholder and his minions. There is also a crew of a secret society of necromancers there looking for something. I'm thinking of also having a faction of neutral or Monstrous creatures/people who can be influenced to cooperate with the pcs.

Now...I need the players to find the vault after having explored the ruined city. and puzzle it open with the scepter (Indiana Jones style). I need them to find part of an ancient magical device there which will be part of the campaign arc. My problem is that I said "the city's treasure" would be in the vault. I can't let them have an entire city's treasure!!! Just the artifact.

Any ideas?

Have them find the skeleton of a dead thief with a bound paper journal that has an entry "Have to remember..."

At that point figure out a bunch of clues to a bunch of different places the treasure has been cached. You see this thief pulled off the HEIST of the (last) century, and he hid the treasure in a few different areas to hedge his bets, but he was betrayed at the last minute by his comrades who didn't know that only he knew how to get to the right spots to retrieve the treasures.

And for the love of Odin, DON'T MAKE YOUR LEVEL 6 CREW FACE A BEHOLDER!

Anderlith
2016-11-15, 01:19 PM
Just like in Indiana Jones or The Mummy, have the Vault self sestruct or seal itsslf forever type situation, where they leave with only a few sacks of treasure. Or the treasure is esoteric & not gold

Koo Rehtorb
2016-11-15, 01:26 PM
The treasure is a mirror. Because they were the real treasure all along.

Segev
2016-11-15, 01:50 PM
I'm going to chime in with the "use it as a plot hook" crowd. Don't stiff them; the loot can be a challenge in and of itself, just to transport. And they have to defend it.

Moreover, you can place art objects and other cultural icons which hint at your overarching plot. The artifact, perhaps, isn't the only relevant item in that vault, but the others are clues and keys to deeper understanding of what's at stake.

hewhosaysfish
2016-11-15, 03:08 PM
Moreover, you can place art objects and other cultural icons which hint at your overarching plot. The artifact, perhaps, isn't the only relevant item in that vault, but the others are clues and keys to deeper understanding of what's at stake.

"That's such a beautiful painting of a full moon over a city skyline... but why are all the people in the foreground running and screaming?"

Jay R
2016-11-15, 03:25 PM
This really is the first thing I thought of:

Listen children to a story
That was written long ago,
About a kingdom, on a mountain
And the valley folk below.
On the mountain was a treasure
Burred deep beneath a stone,
And the valley people swore
They'd have it for their very own. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh-JoW_8qw0)

PrismCat21
2016-11-15, 05:56 PM
http://www.dandwiki.com/w/images/thumb/2/2e/GemScarab.jpg/180px-GemScarab.jpg

There's a small infestation of Gem Scarabs that have eaten nearly every gem/crystal that could be found in the vault. When the PC's disturb them, they attack with small SLA's based on the gems they've eaten.

It'll be a fun easy encounter at their lvl, and they'll potentially be able to harvest some gems from the carcasses.
If there's an arcane caster in the party, even better. They can be an Imp. Familar. Consider giving one to him/her for free.

FreddyNoNose
2016-11-15, 08:19 PM
Backstory: My group was sent by the local thieves guild on a side quest to take out a band of highwaymen working for their rivals. They tracked the bandits down into their hideout in a cave and incinerated them (in a slightly horrifying display of the power of their new spell, fireball). They find a scepter of ancient make in the bandits' hoard. It's obviously magical. When I planned this out, I figured they'd need to take it back to the city to have some research done on it (thereby giving me time to plan out what info they would learn about it). Unfortunately for me, I hadn't remembered that the party's wizard had a scroll of identify on him. So he casts it, and I tell him everything. It came out really good too. Like I had been 100% ready to answer this question. I tell him that the scepter was used by the last king of the nearby ruined city of Varadinum to seal the city's treasure in a hidden vault before the empire rolled in and took over. The empire never finds it because the vault can only be revealed by the scepter which by that time had been taken far from the city.

The ruins of Varadinum are currently inhabited by a beholder and his minions. There is also a crew of a secret society of necromancers there looking for something. I'm thinking of also having a faction of neutral or Monstrous creatures/people who can be influenced to cooperate with the pcs.

Now...I need the players to find the vault after having explored the ruined city. and puzzle it open with the scepter (Indiana Jones style). I need them to find part of an ancient magical device there which will be part of the campaign arc. My problem is that I said "the city's treasure" would be in the vault. I can't let them have an entire city's treasure!!! Just the artifact.

Any ideas?The artifact is a living artifact which feeds off the wealth and over time has consumed everything. It will also consume the character wealth as well. You know how artifacts have negative aspects to them!!!!

As they are wandering near the vault they can see items such as armored on skeletons oddly deteriorated or metal from doors/gates/windows in the same odd deterioration. Some hints of something bad has happened.

Atarax
2016-11-15, 11:39 PM
And for the love of Odin, DON'T MAKE YOUR LEVEL 6 CREW FACE A BEHOLDER!

Hahaha!

No, I wouldn't do that to them. They'll be searching for his secret vault, but the beholder's territory is in the ruins of the palace. I want to give them the option to explore that area either through stealth or by allying with one of the other groups inhabiting the city.

OldTrees1
2016-11-15, 11:56 PM
Hahaha!

No, I wouldn't do that to them. They'll be searching for his secret vault, but the beholder's territory is in the ruins of the palace. I want to give them the option to explore that area either through stealth or by allying with one of the other groups inhabiting the city.

What is the current market price for smuggling 4 people through a Beholder's territory? Gold sinks like this could really help ease your predicament.

Bohandas
2016-11-16, 01:52 AM
*All the gold is dissolved in aqua regia. The bottles' significance may not be immediately apparent and even if it is then the gold must still be tediously percipitated out in an alchemist's laboratory.

*it's all in copper.

*much of it is actually keys to other vaults

*the treasure is cursed

Stealth Marmot
2016-11-16, 07:24 AM
*All the gold is dissolved in aqua regia. The bottles' significance may not be immediately apparent and even if it is then the gold must still be tediously percipitated out in an alchemist's laboratory.

*it's all in copper.

*much of it is actually keys to other vaults

*the treasure is cursed

1. Thank you Georgy de Hevesy.

2. You might have something there, but not what you are thinking. Instead it could be semi-precious stones or metals or some other form of non-perishable good that was ONCE incredibly rare and valuable, but over the last hundred years or so has dropped in value. Perhaps 1/20th the original worth. Still valuable, but not as valuable as it once was.

3. Similar to my idea, along with others, that the vault may not be the end game but instead a pathway to another quest.

4. I find this to be something of a jerk move to be honest, the players should not be punished for their success (to steal from a popular political statement).



Another idea is pne you could steal from Treasure Planet. The Vault was a city's treasure because it contains gateways, it is a hub to travel to multiple different lands. From there you could figure some quest hooks involving the gates.

Cluedrew
2016-11-16, 08:54 AM
Remember the old folks song "One Tin Soldier"?
Listen children to a story
That was written long ago,
About a kingdom, on a mountain
And the valley folk below.
On the mountain was a treasure
Burred deep beneath a stone,
And the valley people swore
They'd have it for their very own. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh-JoW_8qw0)With our brothers we will share,
all the secrets of the mountain,
and all the treasures buried there.

Not my favourite song, but I'll probably have a couple parts of it burned into my head for the rest of my life.

Personally I like this option (the treasure doesn't have a lot of monetary worth), because cities and countries tend not to have a lot of wealth as cash.

Jay R
2016-11-16, 08:59 AM
It contains deeds to the most important (but now abandoned and worthless) property in the city.

Also certificates of deposit on the bank that is now rubble.

Quertus
2016-11-16, 01:49 PM
Personally, I'd go with a mix of decayed food, coins, art, books. And, given that the party is looking at fighting undead & necromancers, and maybe even a beholder (!), it sounds like they should gain some rather low- or even no-treasure levels fighting the undead until they're powerful enough to take on the beholder... at which point this treasure trove might not put them that far above the WBL that they would have fallen so far behind by this point.



Really dark answer: It's filled with the skeletons of children... and this artifact.

Or undead children / ghosts / slaymates.

oudeis
2016-11-17, 01:04 AM
When the players finally enter the vast hidden chamber they see a small army of life-sized terracotta dwarves/hobbits/gnomes, stretching out into the darkness far beyond the reach of their lights. The statues are arrayed in precise formations around a small but vigorous subterranean spring. Some bear weapons, others instruments of agriculture or manual labor. They show varying degrees of surface cracking and crumbling.

The secret: The statues are actually a once-renowned force of clay golems called the Servitors of Varadinum, created by the eponymous founder of the city in a long-forgotten age. Obscured legends claim that when he first brought them to this land, they laid the foundations for the great metropolis in a day and raised its mighty walls in a week. Extant records of the time credit Varadinum's rise to prosperity and greatness to the Servitors. At the city's height, they maintained its buildings, worked its fields and forges, and defended its walls with unstinting vigor. The players should be stunned by this turn of events as every tale of the fall of the city speaks of their complete destruction at the hands of Imperial Warcerors. They are currently in stasis and in need of repair, but if the players deduce the meaning of the cryptic murals on the walls of the great vault they will realize that pouring the spring water on the 'statues' will revitalize and revive the dried clay figures and repair the damage they've suffered. Once reawakened, the Servitors wlll obey the commands of any who wields the scepter and speaks the proper words in Varadine. If not given specific orders they will obey the last edict of the last King and set about restoring the city to its former glory. They have all the characteristics of regular clay golems (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm#clayGolem) except they will not go berserk when damaged. Each Servitor has AC 16, 4d10+10 HP (average 32), Strength 14, speed 20, and attacks twice per round for 1d4+2 damage if unarmed or once per round if wielding a weapon.



ADDENDUM: The truth behind the legends is that Varadinum didn't bring the Servitors from his unknown homeland: the spring is the origin of the Servitors' creation and the source of their power. If the players can find the proper rituals and materials they can use the spring to create more golems.

Bohandas
2016-11-17, 02:07 AM
4. I find this to be something of a jerk move to be honest, the players should not be punished for their success (to steal from a popular political statement).

Probably not, though a cursed treasure horde does have precedents in fantast and legend, going all the way back to the Volsunga Saga

Bohandas
2016-11-17, 02:28 AM
*Part of the vault has collapsed, requiring lengthy excavations

*A few items such as Rods of Epic Spellcasting which are at once useless to anyone not epic level and so expensive that they'll be hard-pressed to find a place with enough money to buy them at full market value

*in the vault are lenses that allow one to see through the illusions disguising the filled coffers, gems set in items, gold decorating buildings, etc scattered around the city and some kind of spell completion device that allows the illusions to be dismissed. There's indeed a whole city's worth of gold to be had but they'll have to sweep the whole city if they want collect it

*similar to the above the gold's disguised to look like some worthless junk and there's some actual worthles junk disguised to look like gold

*The whole thing was part of some kind of trap for the imperial forces

*

Algeh
2016-11-17, 03:02 AM
I suggest going with a mixture:

- A nice but not too large amount of things that can be ready spent by the PCs (gems, coins, etc)
- Some things that still hold value, but only to the right buyer and would mean a major project to convert into liquid wealth (large marble statues, extremely fragile-looking art objects of various other kinds, carved stone tablets written in a language only understood today by a few scholars, etc)
- Things that have decayed and no longer hold value (what was once a fine tapestry has clearly been discovered by moths, a book that crumples into dust when you try to open it, many of the other suggestions from this thread)

Give them some reasonable amount of nice shiny spendable wealth since you did say "treasure" and not to give them any after that feels kind of jerkish, but use most of the "treasure" to tell them more about the people who left it rather than just things that easily convert into money. If possible, work in something that points to a side quest or location you'd like them to notice.

CharonsHelper
2016-11-17, 03:12 AM
If it's anything like modern governments - it'll just be filled with I.O.U.s

Misereor
2016-11-17, 03:47 AM
The key to the Queen's chastity belt.
P.S. It was a Troglodyte kingdom.

Jay R
2016-11-17, 11:02 AM
High denominations of coins made of brass or iron. (Bonus points if they sell them for very little, and then find out that they are priceless artifacts.)

Certificates of deposit drawn on the nearby (long-abandoned) bank. (Bonus points if they eventually learn that it has open branches on another continent.)

A stack of magical scrolls, the top one of which has Explosive Runes. No, it isn't a scroll of Explosive Runes. The spell has been cast on the paper.

Make sure they get enough treasure out of it, though.

Bohandas
2016-11-17, 12:24 PM
- Some things that still hold value, but only to the right buyer and would mean a major project to convert into liquid wealth (large marble statues, extremely fragile-looking art objects of various other kinds, carved stone tablets written in a language only understood today by a few scholars, etc)

Or a Rod of Epic Spellcasting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/rods.htm#epicSpellcaster), which is only useful to epic level spellcasters and cost more than the GP limit of even the kind of shop you'd find in a metropolis

Segev
2016-11-17, 01:23 PM
Or a Rod of Epic Spellcasting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/rods.htm#epicSpellcaster), which is only useful to epic level spellcasters and cost more than the GP limit of even the kind of shop you'd find in a metropolis

In this vein, a truly impressive epic item that might not unbalance a game would be a Rod of Epic Splendor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/rods.htm#epicSplendor). The +8 enhancement to Cha is the most dangerous aspect of it, so consider whether it would overpower your sorcerer or bard, but other than that, it's just really cool. You can't even sell its creations. And epic items are so expensive that you could reasonably make an adventure out of finding somebody with both enough wealth and interest to buy it.

javcs
2016-11-17, 02:46 PM
I like the Living Vault idea, myself.

The Vault's got a small open area up front, and a lot of extradimensional storage spaces further in for the higher security areas. You can only get stuff out of the extradimensional vaults if you know what to ask for - thus, they'd need to track down an inventory of the vault. The open area inside the vault only has a partial inventory.

Or, if it's a more mundane storage mechanism ... it's been a few centuries, and there's a beholder in the area, the Beholder got in and had its minions loot the place. Or the

Or, an empty vault just means that nobody who emptied it survived to talk about the source of their gains. That cataclysm you mentioned would have made a mess of recordkeeping, and depending on the kind of cataclysm, might've done something to the vault and/or its contents.


Or one or more of those limited useage artifacts, ie: one of the use it and then it disappears ones.


Or maybe this citystate has a bunch of Evil items and/or artifacts - perhaps an Epic Spell Tablet or everything you need to learn an Epic Spell - stuff that the party can't use. Or a lich's phylactery is stored within.

Or they get interrupted and have to run away, taking what they can grab before they're faced with a threat that they are incapable of defeating. Perhaps the lich who's phylactery is in the vault has wards that alter him whenever somebody gets in or tries to get in.


Or, say, something like a massive, fifty pound gemstone. Sure, it's valuable as hell, but you can't really find a buyer, nor can you practically turn it into smaller, more saleable gems without ruining it, or at the very least, massively cutting down the total value.

Broutchev
2016-11-17, 03:05 PM
Thousands of flasks and vials crushed under the crumbling of stones have produced a puddle of a strange and acrid mixture. potions are ruined but the arcane ooze as an offspring is well alive.

Also weapon racks sure attracts rust monsters.

I second Terracota Army and unusable golem.

Now, how about the treasure is such a foul treasure that the PCs aren't willing to use/carry/sell it. Evil artifacts stored after a war with demons is a treasure, and good PCs won't use it and neutral won't be able to find a buyer easily. (Plot hook)
Drugs were used in this civilization for rituals and such but now, it is strictly forbidden, death-penalty style, using it all in one time would be suicide, using it in dose would mean addiction and selling it would be hard.(Plot hook)
Poison is kinda the same as drugs. There's a risk in using it, and you won't be able to use it all at once, so it is a lot of gp but used by small dose it should last for a few levels. Also selling...
I hope those guys have bags of holdings and such.

http://i.imgur.com/N4eD4Un.png

SethoMarkus
2016-11-17, 03:34 PM
I agree that the best solution would be a combination of valuable works of art, deteriorated works of art, and precious metals/gems. Give some treaure that can easily be spent, some that can become a quest of it's own, and some that is functionally worthless

Alternatively, if you want mountains of gold style treaure, have an appropriately powerful dragon show up. Maybe it was casing the vault, knowing it existed but unable to find its precise location. Maybe it followed the PCs after learning of their quest. Maybe it simply happens on the vault by chance. The point is, after the PCs get their bags stuffed with the gold and leave to try to find a way to cart out the rest of it, they return to find the vault the new home of a dragon too poweful for them to directly face at their current power level. If they don't leave the vault, the dragon can scare/kick them out. It spares their lives because without then the vault wouldn't be open, but it basically tells them "scram!".

The treasure is still all there, they just can't get at it right now. Maybe the same faction of neutral creatures in the city above can be convinced to help (at a cost), or they can come back when they are stronger. The treasure might not be as unbalancing then.

Broutchev
2016-11-17, 06:20 PM
Alternatively, if you want mountains of gold style treaure, have an appropriately powerful dragon show up. Maybe it was casing the vault, knowing it existed but unable to find its precise location. Maybe it followed the PCs after learning of their quest. Maybe it simply happens on the vault by chance. The point is, after the PCs get their bags stuffed with the gold and leave to try to find a way to cart out the rest of it, they return to find the vault the new home of a dragon too poweful for them to directly face at their current power level. If they don't leave the vault, the dragon can scare/kick them out. It spares their lives because without then the vault wouldn't be open, but it basically tells them "scram!"..

he can also be in front of said door, and basically he found it first and agree to let them come in get the artifact and leave the treasure for a one time help from him. The dragon gets the door opened and a treasure, the players get the artifact and a helping hand/wing/claw...

Knaight
2016-11-17, 07:06 PM
Another fun option would be to have a stash of a now ubiquitous material that was technologically ahead of its time - a bronze age society that somehow ended up with a vault full of high grade steel bars that are now just not that big of a deal.

Jay R
2016-11-17, 07:34 PM
A treasure worth a lot, but which doesn't help them that much? I don't recommend it, but the obvious answer is a Deck of Many Things.

FreddyNoNose
2016-11-17, 07:49 PM
If it's anything like modern governments - it'll just be filled with I.O.U.s

I.O.U.s inside fortune cookies!

SethoMarkus
2016-11-17, 08:01 PM
he can also be in front of said door, and basically he found it first and agree to let them come in get the artifact and leave the treasure for a one time help from him. The dragon gets the door opened and a treasure, the players get the artifact and a helping hand/wing/claw...

This is even more clever; I like it! The PCs still get a very nice reward, but not something they can spend or trade away.

Bohandas
2016-11-18, 01:45 AM
The army of war golems doesn't scan with them being hidden when the city was under attack. Make it a bunch of of some frailer but more multipurpose construct

Fri
2016-11-18, 01:51 AM
Slightly related

http://i.imgur.com/mwin76u.png

Leewei
2016-11-18, 11:23 AM
I like the all copper idea, but let's tweak it a bit.

There are some higher-denomination currencies (gold, platinum), which the PCs can easily transport. The bulk of the treasure can be in billon, electrum, aluminum, or so on. The coins are ancient, with some intrinsic value, but dumping the entire hoard onto the market will greatly dilute the historic value of the coins.

A level 6 party won't have a lot of capability to carry lots of stuff.

You can also work in some great wondrous items into the treasury. Think Ali Baba - magic mirror, crystal ball, decanter of endless water, and so on.

Stealth Marmot
2016-11-18, 02:22 PM
Hey has anyone here seen The Good, the Bad, and the Weird?

The ending is useful for this sort of thing.

Those who haven't seen it, do so.

Beleriphon
2016-11-18, 03:26 PM
Why not pull a Fallout 4? One of the quests is accessing the treasure vault of some place or another. It turns out it has a few decent weapons, because Fallout, but mostly its just historical artifacts meant to be used as a museum/time capsule that has no practical value.

Broutchev
2016-11-18, 09:00 PM
What if:
The treasure is immense but since the they can only take a small percentage, have it a set off that ''high priest of unknown civilization'' can open the door, but with the staff without the high priest the door open then slowly close. Also the staff breaks... Because reasons.

It will be a time-limit to get all the stuff you want before you are encased out, or in.

Bohandas
2016-11-18, 09:02 PM
several vault doors are rusted shut

Fri
2016-11-18, 10:42 PM
Hey has anyone here seen The Good, the Bad, and the Weird?

The ending is useful for this sort of thing.

Those who haven't seen it, do so.

Since it's my favourite action movie of all time... :smalltongue:

dspeyer
2016-11-19, 12:42 AM
I like the idea that their treasure was knowledge.

And it's not useless knowledge. There are books of advanced magical theory. If you read and understand these books, you can do all sorts of normally impossible things. Unfortunately, it reads kind of like this (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1611.05577.pdf). (Does what I just linked help you how to build doomsday weapons? I don't know!)

Understanding one page take 4 hours and a dc 40 spellcraft check. Assuming you have a way to read the language.

If you can get the books to the right buyer, they'll pay handsomely. Finding the buyer will be hard.

Bohandas
2016-11-19, 01:02 AM
I like the idea that their treasure was knowledge.

And it's not useless knowledge. There are books of advanced magical theory. If you read and understand these books, you can do all sorts of normally impossible things. Unfortunately, it reads kind of like this (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1611.05577.pdf). (Does what I just linked help you how to build doomsday weapons? I don't know!)

Understanding one page take 4 hours and a dc 40 spellcraft check. Assuming you have a way to read the language.

If you can get the books to the right buyer, they'll pay handsomely. Finding the buyer will be hard.

"This thing reads like stereo instructions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz1guudyIos)"

Malifice
2016-11-19, 05:19 AM
Now...I need the players to find the vault after having explored the ruined city. and puzzle it open with the scepter (Indiana Jones style). I need them to find part of an ancient magical device there which will be part of the campaign arc. My problem is that I said "the city's treasure" would be in the vault. I can't let them have an entire city's treasure!!! Just the artifact.

Any ideas?

Double bluff them. The cities 'treasure' might not be actual treasure.

Not sure if you've ever heard of a game called Dragon Warriors (contains some of the greatest flavor and adventures ever written) but the first adventure had the PCs hired (and accompanied) by a Priest (Bretwald) to storm the tomb of Vallanhar (a King Arthur type figure) looking for the fabled 'treasure of the realm' that was buried with him.

Long story short, after the BBEG fight, this (https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=22&ved=0ahUKEwiN4cLxyrTQAhXHGpQKHVzIDTg4FBAWCCAwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.magnumopuspress.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F12%2Fdragon-warriors-sleeping-gods-first-adventure.pdf&usg=AFQjCNE1zEx64t6b2ACcl9W6Ara7B1oCCg&sig2=zXpgjfkgtekwje55hzV9hg&bvm=bv.139250283,d.dGo&cad=rja)is what happens:


Assuming that Morgrin is somehow disposed of, the characters will doubtless turn their avaricious attention to the gold casket they noticed earlier. This is what they find when they open it:

You lift the heavy lid of the casket, expecting to find wealth that transcends greed. Is this the unimaginable wealth of the realm spoken of in legend? Eagerly you peer inside..

You find a silver crown, a handful of grain, a simple ploughshare, a wooden cross and a leatherbound book.

GM: Bretwald, if he has survived the adventure, will understand. “The treasures of Vallandar’s realm!” He groans. “The King, the Land, the People, the Faith and the Law....” He weeps.

If irredeemably mercenary, the characters could take the silver crown. It would fetch about 90 florins. The book of laws is quite a treasure. A gift could be made of it to a monastery, and the characters could expect much goodwill in return. The gold casket itself is much too heavy to lift, and too solid for the characters to break up. They must be content with what they have already.

Jay R
2016-11-19, 10:41 AM
The main difficulty, which we all appear to be trying to ignore, is that "the city's treasure" should probably include a lot of actual money.

The primary ways to avoid that are:
1. The money is unspendable away from that city - IOUs, certificates, cons of base metals with original value much higher than intrinsic value.
2. The treasure is mostly untransportable. Too big, too heavy, built in. [Don't try this. Players are too clever at prising up treasure.]
3. The treasure has been destroyed - copper coins that have corroded, A large hoard of silver coins, now entirely tarnish. [You can't do this with gold. Gold lasts forever.]
4. The city was in debt, and in fact has no coins.
5. For some reason, previous thieves took the negotiables and left the McGuffin the party needs. Unlikely.
6. Previous thieves got into the main vault and took the money, but couldn't open the mini-vault inside holding the McGuffin.
7. The McGuffin is trapped. The vault now contains only the McGuffin, and the decaying body of the thief who tried to pick it up.

But the issue is that there ought to be lots of money in the vault. That's the fact we need to explain away.

Bohandas
2016-11-19, 01:02 PM
Thr pile of gold coins has been deliberately melted together into a misshapen lump to make it harder for invaders to carry away. Or possibly it's been melyed into a disc too large to fit out the door and literally sealed with the kingdom's emblem.

javcs
2016-11-19, 01:18 PM
Oh, hey, this just came to me.

You say that this place was conquered by an expanding empire? If the empire still holds the area, then any coinage in the vault is no longer legal tender in the way that Imperial currency is. The currencies of conquered lands have a grace period as they are phased out of circulation, and then are considered invalid for most purposes. They need some sort of bank/moneychanger to convert the ancient coinage into useable modern imperial currency, who will be taking a sizeable percentage as his/her fee, and changing a city treasury's contents in one go is wildly impractical, at best, unless you deal directly with the empire, and then you have to not only take a loss percentage for changing the coinage, but also pay taxes on it. Even if you don't deal directly with the empire, you're still going to draw all kinds of unwanted attention, both official and not, if you try to change a whole lot of ancient coinage in a short period of time.

Knaight
2016-11-19, 01:20 PM
You say that this place was conquered by an expanding empire? If the empire still holds the area, then any coinage in the vault is no longer legal tender in the way that Imperial currency is. The currencies of conquered lands have a grace period as they are phased out of circulation, and then are considered invalid for most purposes.

The whole idea of legal tender applies a lot more to paper money than to coinage made out of precious materials. At most it will need to be melted down.

javcs
2016-11-19, 01:30 PM
The whole idea of legal tender applies a lot more to paper money than to coinage made out of precious materials. At most it will need to be melted down.
Melted down, and turned either into ingots or reminted. Ignots is probably doable by a party that thinks of it, but that's still not as good as imperial coinage.
Reminting them is the province of the imperial treasury.
Plus, since there's magic, the mints probably include magical verification of coinage and metal purity standards.

It is also entirely possible that the purity standards of a single citystate from a few centuries ago do not match the current purity standards of the modern imperial treasury, which will knock a percentage off the functional value.

Friv
2016-11-19, 11:47 PM
So, I'm going to throw my voice in for "build a neat, valuable, but not overwhelmingly game-break treasure trove". Here are my suggestions. Since you mentioned Wealth By Level and Level 6, I'm assuming that you're running on Pathfinder or D&D 3.x. I'm also going to assume a party of four; you can scale to match party size.

The players are currently Level 6. They're about to explore some undead-filled ruins, which won't give them much treasure, and then reach this massive vault at the end, so assuming they'll be levelling up there, you can give them all the treasure between Level 6 and 7, plus a chunk of the change leading up to Level 8 in the form of things they'll need time (and more adventures) to properly sell. So let's say about 10,000 GP per player, for a total of 40,000 GP.

The city's treasures will then be divided into three major categories:
*) Raw coinage.
*) Magical objects.
*) Art objects that will have great value to a collector.

You've also established that this is an ancient city, so unless you've established a lot about history, you have a bit of leeway. So let's go through these four categories in order:

1. Money

The city probably spent most of its money trying to get mercenaries, equipment, and whatever they could before the empire arrived, but they left a pretty sizeable chunk of change behind. Unfortunately, the primary currency was silver, rather than gold. It's still good, but... well, there's about 10,000 GP worth of silver, or to be precise 100,000 silver coins, weighing a total of 2,000 pounds. A Level 7 party can probably figure out how to get this out of the vault, but it'll be a fun logistical game for the players (rather than the sheer frustration of trying to, say, move a million copper pieces).

2. Art and Symbolic Objects

The vault also contains the greatest art objects of the lost kingdom - twenty-five pieces, a mixture of paintings, tapestries, the Crown Jewels, a couple of sculptures, etc. About half of them have been ravaged by time, and are only worth 50-100 GP each, but the other half are worth a combined 20,000 GP if the PCs can find sellers for them. Probably there are two worth 3-4k each, and the rest are worth around a thousand, if economic triage is required.

3. Magic Items

There's not a lot of magic in here. Anything with combat utility was spent defending the city, after all. But it was an ancient magical city, and they had some ancient magical stuff.

The row of twelve iron scepters that controlled the city's aqueducts, irrigation systems, and plumbing networks are useless now, because the architecture held the real magic and it's been destroyed over the years. They might be a curiousity. Similarly, there are rows of specialized potions that were never meant to last more than a few years; they're basically just sour-tasting rotgut now. But there are five great treasures that survived the ages:

The Greatsmith's Hammer was wielded by the greatest priests of the faith. If used on broken metals, pottery, or other inanimate objects that were never alive, it instantly repairs it as per the Mending spell. The Hammer can handle objects that are a few pounds in size, although several strikes may be required, but since it doesn't work on wood, leather, or similar things it is more limited. It's worth around 1,000 GP.

The Circlet of Birds was worn by the city's archmage, filled with an enchantment that was considered quite impressive at the time, although to modern eyes it is less so. It allows the wearer to speak with any bird, and provides a +5 bonus to Diplomacy or Bluff checks involving birds of animal intellect. They simply see you as a pretty nice guy. The Circlet was how the archmage kept an eye on the region, but as the armies of the empire approached and his spies and messengers were slaughtered, he placed it in the vault to protect the remaining birds from Imperial manipulation. The Circlet is worth a good 2,000 GP.

The Headband of Slumber is a simple headband that, within one minute of being put on, will put the wearer into a deep sleep that lasts exactly eight hours and allows them to awaken completely refreshed (they will feel themselves growing tired, and removing the headband before it finishes putting them to sleep undoes the effect). While sleeping, the wearer takes a -5 penalty to any attempts to wake them. The Headband was used by the king to ensure that he would not fret and toss and turn all night when faced with dangers or challenges, and being always very well-rested did wonders for his decision-making skills. It's also worth about 2,000 GP, and a clever party might find good uses for it.

Finally, there is a large clay cauldron that, if you place a meal within it, produces five times as much back; the new food will vanish within an hour, but is hearty until then. The cauldron weighs about fifty pounds, and it takes five minutes to cook, but otherwise there's no limit to how often it can be used. It's definitely worth a good 5,000 GP if you can find someone willing to pay that much to feed the poor.

And, of course, there is the artifact itself.

Beneath
2016-11-20, 01:41 AM
Seconding the suggestions to just give them the gold, but make it a reasonable amount. 20-40k (which have been given upthread as not messing with 3e wealth by level if that's what you're using, provided you give them a bunch of low-treasure encounters on the way) sounds plausible for what a city might have in its treasury at the end of a losing war, or even less. It might all be in art objects (the crown jewels and other things the king wouldn't sell to save his life) and non-combat magic items, if they spent through the treasury on mercenaries and defensive works.

IOUs and paper money don't make sense. There's a lot less reason to go to these extreme ends to conceal what amounts to records of transactions that have already taken place, or promises of transactions that will take place from your enemies.

Bohandas
2016-12-01, 01:11 AM
How about some stuff that requires some very limited secondary resource (batteries, shotgun shells, ink cartridges, stuff like that) to function

Hawkstar
2016-12-01, 01:36 AM
I suggest you go with this answer:

The artifact is the "treasure". It was the city's most prized possession so the Vault was built specifically to hold it; hence the extra security with the magical staff being the only way to get in.

Doesn't hurt to have other valuables in the Vault in coins and maybe other magic items, but it's not like just because you said "treasure" it must mean millions gp worth of stuff.

Make the artifact the city's most prized possession, and the vault itself, while housing the artifact (And security to hold it), also has the value of the artifact (Its name, history, all that good stuff) inscribed around it so that in the case the city and artifact was lost to time, its legends could be rediscovered by future adventurer-archaeologists.

I was going to suggest it myself after playing through a fun quest in The Elder Scrolls Online that was pretty much this exact scenario, though it's a much smaller town. You're sent to gather Valuable Treasure from a legendary sealed vault beneath the city. The treasure is a single small piece of remarkably beautiful jewerly with an exotic history.

John Longarrow
2016-12-02, 12:41 AM
Copper and Silver trade bars. Each bar is 10lbs of pure metal. They find several hundred copper bars (5gp per bar) and several hundred silver bars (50gp per bar).

Lets say they find 300 silver bars, that's 15,000 gp worth of silver and it weighs 1.5 TONS. Tack on 600 copper bars (3000 gp value) for 3 TONS.

They now would have to figure out how to move 4.5 tons of metal for their 18,000 gp haul. Not a bad deal for a city, but really a pain for a party.

Stealth Marmot
2016-12-02, 08:08 AM
Copper and Silver trade bars. Each bar is 10lbs of pure metal. They find several hundred copper bars (5gp per bar) and several hundred silver bars (50gp per bar).

Lets say they find 300 silver bars, that's 15,000 gp worth of silver and it weighs 1.5 TONS. Tack on 600 copper bars (3000 gp value) for 3 TONS.

They now would have to figure out how to move 4.5 tons of metal for their 18,000 gp haul. Not a bad deal for a city, but really a pain for a party.

I was playing Dishonored 2 and in the first mission when you escape, you end up finding a vault full of gold. In solid bars the size of a cinder block. Emily comments that the bricks would be useless since there is no way she could sell them or break them down even if she COULD carry them out of there.

The way nations handle wealth is on an entirely different level than your average treasure hoarder. They would have no reason to make their wealth easily portable. In fact they would have every reason to NOT have it be easily portable, since that makes it harder to steal. Since nations don't deal with small exchanges, they would have a massive block of precious metals to use as their currency. If your nation is not going to be trading directly for anything less than 10,000 gp, why have bars in anything smaller than 10,000 gp bars? The only reason for a pretty pile of coins, jewels and jewelry is if you wanted to buy off a warlord and wanted to present something with aesthetics.

You should remember that players do have bags of holding however. Giant bars may not be that huge a problem.

I'm suddenly reminded of Skyrim though, where I could craft a bow worth 15k in gold, yet no merchant ever carries more than 2-3k worth of gold.

Storm_Of_Snow
2016-12-02, 09:48 AM
I'm suddenly reminded of Skyrim though, where I could craft a bow worth 15k in gold, yet no merchant ever carries more than 2-3k worth of gold.
As an aside, some of the master trainers/traders can easily get massive amounts of gold if you have a full training session with them, go over a level, then fully train with them again to get up to skill level 90. And of course, if you're not that bothered about just gaining as much money as possible, you can sell and rebuy a lower value item enough times that the trader can then buy the ludicrously expensive item you brought them. :smallwink:

Back on topic, I'd add in lots of defences - traps, wards, shields, locks well above their ability to pick, anti-magic zones, automata and other non-living defenders (undead, golems, summoned creatures and so on). Basically make them have to spend a lot of resources just to get to their primary goal, then make it clear that the little they have left may just be enough to get out again, but only if they don't try and push any further.

And by the time they've got back to town, re-equipped and got back, there's been a gold rush, 90% of the city's been looted and they've got to fight through other adventuring groups in order to get any cut of what's left.

Beleriphon
2016-12-02, 10:52 AM
As an aside, some of the master trainers/traders can easily get massive amounts of gold if you have a full training session with them, go over a level, then fully train with them again to get up to skill level 90. And of course, if you're not that bothered about just gaining as much money as possible, you can sell and rebuy a lower value item enough times that the trader can then buy the ludicrously expensive item you brought them. :smallwink:

Its more like Fallout New Vegas' expansion Dead Money where at the end you end up in a vault full of gold bars. Short of cheat codes or manipulating the bugs in the game you cannot get these out before the vault explodes. If you can get even a few out though there's no merchant i the game with enough caps to sell the bars, but you can trade them for some of the best weapons and armour in the game though.

I'd honest do the same thing here, make the treasure a so large that is literally immovable without the assistance of a convoy of carts and retainers. I'd make small parts easily obtainable and lootable, but the rest gets the self destructs if the don't haul ass out shortly after getting what they need.

Mongobear
2016-12-02, 11:55 AM
Is this ancient city at all desert related? Or otherwise in a region where something like food/water would be more valuable than gold and jewels?

If so, have the 'treasure' be an underground oasis full of thousands of gallons of drinkable water, like in the old Dune movie. Functionally worthless to outsiders looking for a big pile of gold and gems, but to the inhabitants of the city it was priceless.

Also, maybe have a few small chests of actual gold/gems in the "vault" just so they dont riot against you, but the true treasure is the water.

John Longarrow
2016-12-02, 05:09 PM
Stealth Marmot

6th level party isn't going to have a lot of ability to move large amounts of low value metal. I'm not too worried about them having bags of holding capable of carrying this stash.

Its enough that the players will either spend a session trying to figure out HOW to get it out or they will figure they can't take most of it and only grab a few silver bars. Either way its not a massive change to the game (giving each of 4 characters less than 5K in gold) but it does give the feeling of "Massive pile of treasure" without going overboard.

I was thinking that they are for use in trade. Hence they are in commodity size pieces. The high level defenders probably took the gold and platinum bars before the city fell though.

Bohandas
2016-12-12, 01:17 AM
I still recommend including some stuff that theoretically does something impressive but depends on infrastructure that no longer exists.

Like, how useful would your smartphone be without the phone network, the grid, the net, and the GPS satellites

LibraryOgre
2016-12-12, 01:48 PM
I still recommend including some stuff that theoretically does something impressive but depends on infrastructure that no longer exists.

Like, how useful would your smartphone be without the phone network, the grid, the net, and the GPS satellites

Or, hey, any of the chargers that smart people squirrel everywhere they're likely to be, so the damn thing doesn't die on them.

Segev
2016-12-12, 02:02 PM
Or, hey, any of the chargers that smart people squirrel everywhere they're likely to be, so the damn thing doesn't die on them.

I just use my cybernetic implant that converts calories to electricity to wirelessly charge my phone.

LibraryOgre
2016-12-12, 02:41 PM
I just use my cybernetic implant that converts calories to electricity to wirelessly charge my phone.

I would shank a baby seal on live television for that.

Bohandas
2017-01-14, 03:24 AM
I know this is a bit late, but I just came across two relevant articles

20 Bulky Treasures Difficult to Get Out of the Dungeon (http://www.ragingswan.com/20-bulky-treasures-difficult-to-get-out-of-the-dungeon/)

20 Fragile Treasures Difficult to Get Out of the Dungeon (http://www.ragingswan.com/20-fragile-treasure-difficult-to-remove-from-the-dungeon/)

Kelb_Panthera
2017-01-14, 06:31 AM
I would shank a baby seal on live television for that.

Comments like this almost make me want to update my sig.

Jay R
2017-01-15, 10:25 AM
The vault could contain a rust monster and the last little bits of thousands of coins.

falloutimperial
2017-01-15, 11:00 AM
The treasure, untarnished, is there in its entirety. It is also heavy. The party can only safely take what they can carry before other factions/monsters/tax collectors/archeologists arrive.