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View Full Version : 1st lvl spell, as main action, how? and what lvl?



Maxilian
2016-11-14, 06:43 PM
Hello everyone, i been wanting to make a character around a 1st lvl spell (Catapult), to have that as it main ability (treat as it were something like EB), why? A fun character idea i have around this spell...

But is this actually possible? if it were, what lvl would i need to be able to use this as my main ability in every combat?

Would Warlock help (they recharge their Spell Slot in a short rest so that's a plus) but they have a really limited quantity of spell slot, so i'm not sure if its better to just go full Wizard (or anything like that -any full caster so my spell slot progression wouldn't fall back-)

Millstone85
2016-11-14, 06:52 PM
Spell Mastery, an 18th-level wizard feature, lets you "Choose a 1st-level wizard spell and a 2nd-level wizard spell that are in your spellbook. You can cast those spells at their lowest level without expending a spell slot when you have them prepared.", essentially turning those spells into cantrips.

And yes, catapult is a 1st-level wizard spell.

NNescio
2016-11-14, 06:54 PM
Hello everyone, i been wanting to make a character around a 1st lvl spell (Catapult), to have that as it main ability (treat as it were something like EB), why? A fun character idea i have around this spell...

But is this actually possible? if it were, what lvl would i need to be able to use this as my main ability in every combat?

Would Warlock help (they recharge their Spell Slot in a short rest so that's a plus) but they have a really limited quantity of spell slot, so i'm not sure if its better to just go full Wizard (or anything like that -any full caster so my spell slot progression wouldn't fall back-)

If you need to fire it off at-will like an EB, then you'll need to be Wiz 18 (for spell mastery to get Catapult as an at-will L1 spell). At that point the spell becomes quite lackluster compared to standard cantrips (and you lose out on at-will Shield too).

If you expect to use it once per encounter... then maybe past L5 or so (use L1 and L2 slots for Catapult, refresh those slots for utility casting and buffs, and then the rest for 'normal' casting).

The damage of Catapult doesn't really scale though, and like cantrips, it deals no damage on successful saves. You may be able to put it to good use if you have a constant source of damaging items to fire (like Alc. fire), and you should probably fire from an elevated position downwards at your enemy, so you'd still catch your enemies with the splash even if you they made the Dex save.

Also another trick is to fire the projectile as a 'narrow' line effect spell, which may border on munchkinism depending on DM. Strictly speaking, Catapult doesn't directly target your enemies (affected enemies still count as 'targets' though). You target an object and make it fly up to 90 ft in a a direction you choose, and saves only come into play if its path intersects with a creature's space. If a creature makes the save, then well... the projectile doesn't stop moving, and it would continue to move on its path until it hits a solid surface, hits a creature who fails the save, or reaches the maximum range of the spell (at which point the object just falls to the ground, presumably losing all momentum). Aim it at a bunch of creatures in a line, and one of them will probably fail the save, maybe.

Another possible way to exploit Catapult is to choose the range of the spell ("up to 90ft in a direction you choose"). This may not be allowed as it is possible to interpret that the caster only has a choice of direction (but not range), but this same interpretation can hose spells like Thorn Whip. In any case, if your DM allows you to pick the exact distance the projectile travels, you can just have your splash damage item stop moving when its path intersects with your desired target. If they dodge it, well, the projectile just falls on their space and deals splash damage. If not, then the eat the bludgeoning damage on top of the splash.

Millstone85
2016-11-14, 06:58 PM
It is way weaker, in both range and damage, but if you want to throw a physical object with magic, there is the magic stone cantrip.

Addaran
2016-11-14, 07:02 PM
Maybe homebrew a warlock invocation that gives it at will? They do have some lvl 1 spells at-will and depending on when you can get that invocation and at what lvl catapult is casted, it probably wouldn't be much worst then EB. Just more utility fun.

Of course, 5ed is weird with at-will casting... mage armor and silent image are okay at lvl 2, jump you need to wait lvl 9 and for the other level 1 spells, it's lvl 18 wizard.

NNescio
2016-11-14, 07:18 PM
Maybe homebrew a warlock invocation that gives it at will? They do have some lvl 1 spells at-will and depending on when you can get that invocation and at what lvl catapult is casted, it probably wouldn't be much worst then EB. Just more utility fun.

Of course, 5ed is weird with at-will casting... mage armor and silent image are okay at lvl 2, jump you need to wait lvl 9 and for the other level 1 spells, it's lvl 18 wizard.

Catapult is very abuseable if allowed at an at-will at early levels, since you can make any 1~5 pound object (that's not being worn or carried) within 150 ft of you just take ff and fly 90 ft away. Ridiculous amount of utility, especially when combined with Shape Water (shape into multiple pointy geometric shapes, then freeze). Also quite useful for attacking if your projectile can add some sort of 'rider effect' on impact (like Alc. Fire, acid, contact poisons, etc).

(Back in 3.5x the dirty trick was to fire tanglefoot bags with Launch Object, but tanglefoot bags no longer exist in 5e barring DM homebrew. Another trick was to fire objects affected by Shrink Item, but 5e's Enlarge/Reduce only lasts 1 minute instead of days/caster level of Shrink Item, and Reduced objects don't revert back to their original size on impact unlike with Shrink Item.)

Zanthy1
2016-11-14, 07:22 PM
Spell Mastery, an 18th-level wizard feature, lets you "Choose a 1st-level wizard spell and a 2nd-level wizard spell that are in your spellbook. You can cast those spells at their lowest level without expending a spell slot when you have them prepared.", essentially turning those spells into cantrips.

And yes, catapult is a 1st-level wizard spell.

Thats a frickin cool feature!