Is there a way to convert 5th edition D&D into a star wars game?

[johnswiftwood]

I need to know this becaus i plan to make it a thing with some friends who have no experience with other systems.

[UristMcRandom]

Yes. Just use your imagination and refluff some stuff. For instance: "That isn't a Fly spell, it's a jetpack." "That's not a longsword, it's a lightsaber." "Crossbow? What crossbow? This is a DL-44 heavy blaster pistol."

Give a Monk a longsword proficiency and call it a Jedi (or maybe a Paladin would make a better Jedi). A Great Old One Warlock using Pact of the Blade could be a Sith Lord, with Eldritch Blast serving as force lightning and the Great Old One mental tricks being mind tricks. The clones are Human Fighters with identical stats. Battle droids? Weak iron golems with the aforementioned crossbow blasters.

One of the great things about D&D is that it's a pretty flexible system. With a little modification and a lot of imagination, you can make it fit about any setting.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The base system? Sure. The problem is all the magic that doesn't really fit with how Star Wars does things. (Handwaving it all as "tech" just causes more confusion and dissonance than it's worth). You'd probably want to fiddle with base casting mechanics (maybe adopt Pathfinder's psychic magic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/psychic-magic) rules in place of V/S/M components?) and find/build yourself a dedicated Jedi class and spell list. Then you can run Barbarian, Fighter, Rogue, Spell-Less Ranger, Jedi.

[johnswiftwood]

The base system? Sure. The problem is all the magic that doesn't really fit with how Star Wars does things. (Handwaving it all as "tech" just causes more confusion and dissonance than it's worth). You'd probably want to fiddle with base casting mechanics (maybe adopt Pathfinder's psychic magic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/psychic-magic) rules in place of V/S/M components?) and find/build yourself a dedicated Jedi class and spell list. Then you can run Barbarian, Fighter, Rogue, Spell-Less Ranger, Jedi.

actually i have four classes in mind. the problem is coing up with features for them

Force warrior
Subclasses:duelist(one on one combat),battlemaster(close range crowd control),channeler(support tank),brute(pretty much barbarian)


Force savant
subclasses:lorekeeper(specialized knowledge,wide pool of force abilities (read:spells) but not particularly great at any of them),medium(buff caster),farseer (divination specialist),sage(evocation specialist)


Gadgeteer
subclasses::pilot(flying), scrapmaster(minion maker),splicer(info gathering and limited control of enemies),demolitionist(infiltration).


Gunner
Subclasses: outlaw(hit and run),sniper(single target DPR),soldier(versitile team player),hunter(middle distance crowd control).

[Grod_The_Giant]

Force warrior
Subclasses:duelist(one on one combat),battlemaster(close range crowd control),channeler(support tank),brute(pretty much barbarian)
This is your 5th-level-spells-gish, I take it?


Force savant
subclasses:lorekeeper(specialized knowledge),medium(buff caster),farseer (precognition),sage(combat force use)

And here's your full caster. Gotcha. I'd model Lorekeeper after the Knowledge Cleric, Farseer and Sage after Divination and Evocation wizards, and the Medium... they could get some Bardic Inspiration, come to think of it.


Gadgeteer
subclasses::pilot(flying), scrapmaster(minion maker),splicer(info gathering and limited control of enemies),demolitionist(infiltration).
I might avoid Pilot subclass altogether. Ships are certainly a big part of Star Wars, but they're... well, if they're not fading into the background, they'll probably be such a focus that you'll want everyone to contribute. I think the best option might be to make Starships a tool and have a Mounted Combat type feat for a specialist.

Otherwise, the Scrapmaster should take a page from the (Revised) Ranger's Beastmaster mechanics.


Gunner
Subclasses: outlaw(hit and run),sniper(single target DPS),soldier(versitile team player),hunter(middle distance crowd control).
This is your pure mundane type? I'd keep a general chassis and customize the subclasses heavily, then. The Sniper could get Sneak Attack; the Outlaw could borrow Skirmish from the 3.5 Scout (roughly as Sneak Attack, but only if you move a bunch before attacking). The Soldier and Hunter could rock out Extra Attack, perhaps with some Battle Master type maneuvers to back that up.

Hmm... looking back up, I feel like you wound up with somewhat awkward class distribution-- the Gunner and Force Savant in particular seem like they're mixing a lot of light and heavy combat roles together. Might I suggest instead something like

Outlaw: Generally Rogue-y, this would have your skirmishers and snipers and sneakthiefs. I could see Smuggler (infiltration, maybe a bit of fluffy piloting stuff), Sniper (single-target ranged damage), and Gadgeteer, say.
Soldier: Your Fighter, basically, you could put your assorted control- and leadership-focused combatants here. Subclasses could be Duelist (control-focused), Thug (tanky), Captain (leader-y), and perhaps a Medic too.
Force Knight: Your general gish, focused on lightsaber fighting. Look at the Paladin and... I think the Monk, oddly enough, might be a fun source of inspiration. You could build subclasses around lightsaber styles, if you so chose; an all-out offense style, a defensive style, and a throwing style, maybe.
Force Savant: Your full caster. Your subclasses there were spot-on, I think.

[johnswiftwood]

Hmm...


This is your 5th-level-spells-gish, I take it?


And here's your full caster. Gotcha. I'd model Lorekeeper after the Knowledge Cleric, Farseer and Sage after Divination and Evocation wizards, and the Medium... they could get some Bardic Inspiration, come to think of it.


I might avoid Pilot subclass altogether. Ships are certainly a big part of Star Wars, but they're... well, if they're not fading into the background, they'll probably be such a focus that you'll want everyone to contribute. I think the best option might be to make Starships a tool and have a Mounted Combat type feat for a specialist.

Otherwise, the Scrapmaster should take a page from the (Revised) Ranger's Beastmaster mechanics.


This is your pure mundane type? I'd keep a general chassis and customize the subclasses heavily, then. The Sniper could get Sneak Attack; the Outlaw could borrow Skirmish from the 3.5 Scout (roughly as Sneak Attack, but only if you move a bunch before attacking). The Soldier and Hunter could rock out Extra Attack, perhaps with some Battle Master type maneuvers to back that up.[/QUOTE]

I can see your point with the pilot. it is kind of a niche role, but i can't think of another gadgeteer subclass.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I can see your point with the pilot. it is kind of a niche role, but i can't think of another gadgeteer subclass.
You don't need four subclasses for every class; the numbers in the PHB vary a bunch. Also see above; I had more thoughts right after posting.

[johnswiftwood]

You don't need four subclasses for every class; the numbers in the PHB vary a bunch. Also see above; I had more thoughts right after posting.

that's kinda interesting yes. but i kinda like my things better? i know it's kinda biased but, idk.

[Lalliman]

I can see your point with the pilot. it is kind of a niche role, but i can't think of another gadgeteer subclass.
You can just, you know, not add a fourth.

Anyways, I can help you with the specifics of putting together the classes if you want. I like the challenge of homebrewing some Star Wars stuff. I take it you're inexperienced at homebrewing?

Will you allow feats and multiclassing? Are the normal feats available? That might be useful to know up front.

Also, what sources are you pulling inspiration from? The movies, animated series, Old Republic games, EU books, etc.?

[johnswiftwood]

You can just, you know, not add a fourth.

Anyways, I can help you with the specifics of putting together the classes if you want. I like the challenge of homebrewing some Star Wars stuff. I take it you're inexperienced at homebrewing?

Will you allow feats and multiclassing? Are the normal feats available? That might be useful to know up front.

Also, what sources are you pulling inspiration from? The movies, animated series, Old Republic games, EU books, etc.?

Well, i plan having the saber forms being feats, and as per multiclassing. sure! for instance Rey from vii would be a scrapmaster and a force warrior.

the subclasses are based on various characters

Like, the duelist subclass is dooku, the battlemaster is grievous, and the outlaw is han solo.

[druid91]

Given the similarities 5e has to 3.5. I'd grab the Saga Edition Core book and convert those over. Equipment can probably be used fairly well out of the box, and it shouldn't be hard to rig up something akin to the warlock for jedi along with a few custom spells mirroring force powers of old.

[johnswiftwood]

Given the similarities 5e has to 3.5. I'd grab the Saga Edition Core book and convert those over. Equipment can probably be used fairly well out of the box, and it shouldn't be hard to rig up something akin to the warlock for jedi along with a few custom spells mirroring force powers of old.

generally speaking, my goal is to make some classes better than others , namely the force using classes.but still making the other two really useful. i also don't think re-skinning ordinary classes will be satisfactory.

[druid91]

generally speaking, my goal is to make some classes better than others , namely the force using classes.but still making the other two really useful. i also don't think re-skinning ordinary classes will be satisfactory.

I'm not saying to 're-skin' an ordinary class. I was suggesting the warlock as a base for jedi because they already follow that pattern. Tomelock for more force focused, Bladelock for more lightsaber focused. Use the Saga Edition corebook for ideas for class features.

[Lalliman]

Well, i plan having the saber forms being feats, and as per multiclassing. sure! for instance Rey from vii would be a scrapmaster and a force warrior.

the subclasses are based on various characters

Like, the duelist subclass is dooku, the battlemaster is grievous, and the outlaw is han solo.
Ok, sounds good.

Now, I do think Grod’s suggestion for a different class lay-out is quite good, so if you still prefer your version, we should explore why.

The advantage of Grod’s version is that it separates classes by their in-universe profession: a soldier is fundamentally different from an outlaw. Then within the class you can specialize into whatever weapon you want. This matches 5e’s regular design philosophy. By comparison, in your version the gunner is not characterized by their profession or lifestyle, but purely by the fact that they use a gun. Normal 5e doesn’t do this: there’s no class dedicated around using a bow, or around any other weapon. You always get to make the choice for yourself (though often within certain restrictions).

Your version also rules out the possibility of having a competent melee fighter who is not a force-user. While this is rare, it does happen. See Grievous and Pre Vizsla.

That being said, what are your reasons for preferring your version? There’s no ‘wrong’ answer here, but opinions always have an underlying explanation, even if they’re not immediately evident.


generally speaking, my goal is to make some classes better than others , namely the force using classes.but still making the other two really useful. i also don't think re-skinning ordinary classes will be satisfactory.
This is dangerous ground you're treading. No one likes to play a character who is objectively worse than another. I think there's two ways you can handle this:
a) Make them equally powerful, with the built-in assumption that you've got a mid-level force user alongside a top-of-the-line mundane.
b) Make force-users more powerful in combat, but give non-force-users greater out-of-combat utility. I assume this is what you meant to do, but it'll probably be difficult, and extremely DM-dependent.

[johnswiftwood]

Ok, sounds good.

Now, I do think Grod’s suggestion for a different class lay-out is quite good, so if you still prefer your version, we should explore why.

The advantage of Grod’s version is that it separates classes by their in-universe profession: a soldier is fundamentally different from an outlaw. Then within the class you can specialize into whatever weapon you want. This matches 5e’s regular design philosophy. By comparison, in your version the gunner is not characterized by their profession or lifestyle, but purely by the fact that they use a gun. Normal 5e doesn’t do this: there’s no class dedicated around using a bow, or around any other weapon. You always get to make the choice for yourself (though often within certain restrictions).

Your version also rules out the possibility of having a competent melee fighter who is not a force-user. While this is rare, it does happen. See Grievous and Pre Vizsla.

That being said, what are your reasons for preferring your version? There’s no ‘wrong’ answer here, but opinions always have an underlying explanation, even if they’re not immediately evident.


This is dangerous ground you're treading. No one likes to play a character who is objectively worse than another. I think there's two ways you can handle this:
a) Make them equally powerful, with the built-in assumption that you've got a mid-level force user alongside a top-of-the-line mundane.
b) Make force-users more powerful in combat, but give non-force-users greater out-of-combat utility. I assume this is what you meant to do, but it'll probably be difficult, and extremely DM-dependent.

Well, there are melee weapons that don't require the force , like lightfoils and vribroblades.

anyway, i prefer my system because it covers most of the archetypes we see in star wars..

from han-solo(outlaw), to darth vader (duelist) to darth maul (battlemaster) to Rey (scrapmaster)

[johnswiftwood]

Force sensitive:+2 AC when wearing Light armor.

Form I training
Prerequisites: force sensitive:
effect: gain proficiency with saber weapons. +1 attack bonus when flanked and using lightsabers

Form II training
Prerequisites: form I training
effect:+2 attack bonus in melee, 2+AC when in melee when using lightsabers

Form III training
Prerequisites: form I training.
Effect:+2 AC when attacked by a ranged weapon. When using Lightsabers

Form IV training
Prerequisites: form I training, 13DEX
Effect:+2 attack bonus when using lightsabers

Form V training(shien)
prerequisites: form I training, 15DEX
effect: +1AC at a range when using a lightsaber, when an opponent's ranged attack fails roll DEX vs AC, if you succeed, deal the ranged weapon's damage to the weapon's owner.

Form V (Djem so)
Prerequisites: Form I training, 15STR
Effect:+1AC against melee weapons when using a lightsaber, when an opponent misses a melee attack, roll an attack of opportunity

form VI
Prerequisites: form I training.
Effect:+1 AC +1 attack. When wielding lightsabers

Form VII
prerequisite: any combination of at least three 'form training'feats
effect:+2 attack, +2 damage when wielding lightsabers

Here are some feats i made.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Well, there are melee weapons that don't require the force , like lightfoils and vribroblades.

anyway, i prefer my system because it covers most of the archetypes we see in star wars..

from han-solo(outlaw), to darth vader (duelist) to darth maul (battlemaster) to Rey (scrapmaster)
I'd argue that mine hits all the same points, but... taking a step back, your Class/Subclass groupings feel like each one is covering a lot of different ground, and place a lot more emphasis on the subclass as a source of features and "feel" than the main class. Which isn't bad, but does represent a rather substantial change from the established model. A Gunner (Outlaw) vs a Gunner (Soldier) seem like they'd be extremely different characters, which is very rarely the case with existing material.


<new feats>
I... kind of have to disagree with all of these. These are 3e feats, not 5e ones.

Firstly, they're all numerical bonuses, which is drastically opposed to the way 5e operates. The system is built on the assumption that there are, basically, no bonuses beyond your Ability Score and Proficiency; adding in things like magic weapons drastically upsets the existing balance. I won't say irreparably, but... it's not a good idea to just throw bonuses out there like crazy.
Secondly, they're very narrow. 3e feats did this because you'd get a lot of them-- in fact, they generally went way too far down that rabbit hole because the Fighter made them assume characters would be getting twice as many feats as most, but anyway. A 5e character will, maybe, pick two feats over the course of their career. Some won't take any. Feats are usually package deals, offering multiple benefits. When they don't, they're powerful and self-contained abilities. As a rule, one feat=one style. 5e feats also generally don't have so many prerequisites, and they certainly don't launch feat trees.


So, for instance, your saber feats might become:

Jedi Apprentice
Increase your Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20
You gain proficiency in saber weapons
You learn one <equivalent of a cantrip>

Shien Form
Prerequisite: Proficiency in saber weapons
When wielding a saber, as a reaction you may add your Proficiency Bonus to your AC against a ranged weapon attack. If the attack misses, you may attempt to deflect it at another target within range of the original attack. This is a ranged weapon attack, with which you are always treated as being proficient.

Djem So Form
Prerequisite: Proficiency in saber weapons
When wielding a saber, as a reaction you may add your Proficiency Bonus to your AC against a melee attack. If the attack misses, you may immediately make a melee weapon attack against the foe who just missed you.

Form V (Djem so)
Prerequisites: Form I training, 15STR
Effect:+1AC against melee weapons when using a lightsaber, when an opponent misses a melee attack, roll an attack of opportunity

form VI
Prerequisites: form I training.
Effect:+1 AC +1 attack. When wielding lightsabers

Form VII
prerequisite: any combination of at least three 'form training'feats
effect:+2 attack, +2 damage when wielding lightsabers

Here are some feats i made.[/QUOTE]

[Artagon]

I'm not saying to 're-skin' an ordinary class. I was suggesting the warlock as a base for jedi because they already follow that pattern. Tomelock for more force focused, Bladelock for more lightsaber focused. Use the Saga Edition corebook for ideas for class features.

I 100% agree. In fact, I was watching the old star wars movies.. It got me thinking.. what would you say the primary stat is for Jedi?
Pretty much every RPG system has had it as Wisdom.. and I'm thinking they got it wrong.

After all, the most powerful Jedi in history are more strongly swayed by the Dark Side.. and if Wis was the primary stat, they would see through that kind of influence, wouldn't they?
Also, think about the roles they play in the Star Wars universe.. Ambassadors.. Generals.. Information gatherers..
Basically, I think they receive training in a lot of wisdom skills... but they are charisma based for sure

If wisdom was their core stat, why do they keep falling into traps? How on earth was the child Annakin strong in the force? On the other hand, he was so charismatic that he convinced people that A) they wanted to free him from slavery, B) he could win a pod race.. even though they had no proof he could even pilot, and C) he made an empress fall in love with him at 12 yrs old?!

Further, Warlock is a perfect vehicle, because it always has the sense that you could be corrupted by your master.. sorta like you could be corrupted by the force and fall to the dark side.


So yeah, Warlock for Jedi.. I'd remove Eldritch Blast from the equation, personally.. I'd add in the Sword-Mage style cantrips from SCAG, and I'd probably base the sub-class loosely on the Bladesinger from SCAG, though I'd replace the 'extra attack' feature with something else, since you can get it as an invocation. Maybe giving proficiency or expertise in some wisdom skills. Most of their spell selection fits in very well with Jedi, but I'd probably tweak it a little to have less 'Magic-y' spells and more divination/enchantment type stuff.

[johnswiftwood]

I'd argue that mine hits all the same points, but... taking a step back, your Class/Subclass groupings feel like each one is covering a lot of different ground, and place a lot more emphasis on the subclass as a source of features and "feel" than the main class. Which isn't bad, but does represent a rather substantial change from the established model. A Gunner (Outlaw) vs a Gunner (Soldier) seem like they'd be extremely different characters, which is very rarely the case with existing material.


I... kind of have to disagree with all of these. These are 3e feats, not 5e ones.

Firstly, they're all numerical bonuses, which is drastically opposed to the way 5e operates. The system is built on the assumption that there are, basically, no bonuses beyond your Ability Score and Proficiency; adding in things like magic weapons drastically upsets the existing balance. I won't say irreparably, but... it's not a good idea to just throw bonuses out there like crazy.
Secondly, they're very narrow. 3e feats did this because you'd get a lot of them-- in fact, they generally went way too far down that rabbit hole because the Fighter made them assume characters would be getting twice as many feats as most, but anyway. A 5e character will, maybe, pick two feats over the course of their career. Some won't take any. Feats are usually package deals, offering multiple benefits. When they don't, they're powerful and self-contained abilities. As a rule, one feat=one style. 5e feats also generally don't have so many prerequisites, and they certainly don't launch feat trees.


So, for instance, your saber feats might become:

Jedi Apprentice
Increase your Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20
You gain proficiency in saber weapons
You learn one <equivalent of a cantrip>

Shien Form
Prerequisite: Proficiency in saber weapons
When wielding a saber, as a reaction you may add your Proficiency Bonus to your AC against a ranged weapon attack. If the attack misses, you may attempt to deflect it at another target within range of the original attack. This is a ranged weapon attack, with which you are always treated as being proficient.

Djem So Form
Prerequisite: Proficiency in saber weapons
When wielding a saber, as a reaction you may add your Proficiency Bonus to your AC against a melee attack. If the attack misses, you may immediately make a melee weapon attack against the foe who just missed you.

Form V (Djem so)
Prerequisites: Form I training, 15STR
Effect:+1AC against melee weapons when using a lightsaber, when an opponent misses a melee attack, roll an attack of opportunity

form VI
Prerequisites: form I training.
Effect:+1 AC +1 attack. When wielding lightsabers

Form VII
prerequisite: any combination of at least three 'form training'feats
effect:+2 attack, +2 damage when wielding lightsabers

Here are some feats i made.[/QUOTE]

what about the other formes?

[Grod_The_Giant]

what about the other formes?[/QUOTE]
What are the other key styles and their trademarks? I'm happy to take a stab at new feats, I'm just not very familiar with the lore.

[johnswiftwood]

what about the other formes?
What are the other key styles and their trademarks? I'm happy to take a stab at new feats, I'm just not very familiar with the lore.[/QUOTE]

Form I shii-cho
The most basic form of saber combat. Usedfor disarming multiple foes with minimal effort.

Form II MAKASHI
an elegant form similar to irl fencing . used best in saber to saber combat.

Form III Soresu.
A form with near impenetrable deffence. But little offenaive value.

Form VI Ataru
An acrobatic. Physically taxing form involving jumping, flipping. And evasive tactics while maintaining a strong offense.

Form V shien.
A deceptively defensive form used to skillfully reflect blaster fire back at their foes.

Form V djem so.
A highly aggressive form that is even more taxing than ataru. Centers around dominating the foe through precise and powerful offense . and counters that punish the foe for fighting back.

Form VI Niman
A combonation of the above. Hard to learn but easy to practice it doesn't particularly stand out.

Form VII
Utilizing emotion to assist in a fight. It is less a form than a philosophy,practitioners tend to use a more wild variation of another two or three forms they had used before learning form VII

[Grod_The_Giant]

Form I shii-cho
The most basic form of saber combat. Usedfor disarming multiple foes with minimal effort.
Shii-Cho Form
You gain Proficiency in saber weapons
Your Dexterity score increases by 1
When you take the Attack action on your turn, you may attempt a Disarm maneuver (as per the DMG rules) as a bonus action.


Form II MAKASHI
an elegant form similar to irl fencing . used best in saber to saber combat.
Not here, from the sound of it. I'd probably ignore it.

Makashi Form
Prerequisite: Proficiency in Saber Weapons
When wielding a saber, as a reaction you may add your Proficiency Bonus to your AC against a melee attack. If the attack misses, you may immediately make a melee weapon attack against the foe who just missed you.


Form III Soresu.
A form with near impenetrable deffence. But little offenaive value.
Defensive Duelist works fine here, as would one of the assorted "roll die+stat and reduce incoming damage by that much." I might use it as a single style-feat in place of having two separate defend-counterattack forms


Form VI Ataru
An acrobatic. Physically taxing form involving jumping, flipping. And evasive tactics while maintaining a strong offense.
I think we can use a variant on Mobile; instead of giving +10ft speed have it give Advantage on Athletics Acrobatics check made to jump, flip, etc.


Form V shien.
A deceptively defensive form used to skillfully reflect blaster fire back at their foes.
The version I did above should work.


Form V djem so.
A highly aggressive form that is even more taxing than ataru. Centers around dominating the foe through precise and powerful offense . and counters that punish the foe for fighting back.
The version I did above should work


Form VI Niman
A combonation of the above. Hard to learn but easy to practice it doesn't particularly stand out.
Boring; don't bother.


Form VII
Utilizing emotion to assist in a fight. It is less a form than a philosophy,practitioners tend to use a more wild variation of another two or three forms they had used before learning form VII
Hmm.. perhaps
??? Form
You gain Proficiency in Saber Weapons
Your Wisdom score increases by 1, to a maximum of 20
You can use your Wisdom instead of Strength or Dexterity for the attack and damage rolls of melee attacks using

[johnswiftwood]

Shii-Cho Form
You gain Proficiency in saber weapons
Your Dexterity score increases by 1
When you take the Attack action on your turn, you may attempt a Disarm maneuver (as per the DMG rules) as a bonus action.


Not here, from the sound of it. I'd probably ignore it.

Makashi Form
Prerequisite: Proficiency in Saber Weapons
When wielding a saber, as a reaction you may add your Proficiency Bonus to your AC against a melee attack. If the attack misses, you may immediately make a melee weapon attack against the foe who just missed you.


Defensive Duelist works fine here, as would one of the assorted "roll die+stat and reduce incoming damage by that much." I might use it as a single style-feat in place of having two separate defend-counterattack forms


I think we can use a variant on Mobile; instead of giving +10ft speed have it give Advantage on Athletics Acrobatics check made to jump, flip, etc.


The version I did above should work.


The version I did above should work


Boring; don't bother.


Hmm.. perhaps
??? Form
You gain Proficiency in Saber Weapons
Your Wisdom score increases by 1, to a maximum of 20
You can use your Wisdom instead of Strength or Dexterity for the attack and damage rolls of melee attacks using

Makashi is the same as djem so.

And form seven's name uis juyo whoops.

[druid91]

Figured I'd take a quick crack at this.

Jedi
HIT POINTS
Hit Dice: d10
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (or 5) + your constitution modifier per Jedi level after 1st.

PROFICIENCIES
Armor: Light Armor.
Weapons: Simple Weapons, Lightsabers.
Tools: Starships.

Saving Throws: Wisdom, Charisma
Skills:


Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features
Force Powers Known


1st
+2
Lightsaber Defense, Force Sensitivity.
1


2nd
+2
Block
2


3rd
+2
Jedi Order
2


4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement
2


5th
+3

3


6th
+3
Jedi Order Feature
3


7th
+3

4


8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement
4


9th
+4

5


10th
+4
Jedi Order Feature
5


11th
+4
Deflect
5


12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement
6


13th
+5
Redirect shot
6


14th
+5
Jedi Order Feature
6


15th
+5
Throw Lightsaber
7


16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement
7


17th
+6
Lightsaber Mastery
7


18th
+6

8


19th
+6
Ability Score Improvement
8


20th
+6
Power of the Force
8



A Jedi was a Force-sensitive individual, most often a member of the Jedi Order, who studied, served, and used the mystical energies of the Force; usually, the light side of the Force.

Lightsaber Defense

The Jedi is a capable combatant with their lightsaber, even at an early stage in their career. As a bonus action, you can ready yourself to parry incoming melee attacks, increasing your AC by 1 against any such attacks until your next turn.

Force Sensitivity

The Jedi are capable of studying and manipulating the arcane mysteries of the force, an energy field that binds life together and can achieve powerful effects thereby. You learn a number of force powers of your choice, as indicated by the force powers column, starting with one at first level.

Force Attack Modifier = Your Proficiency Bonus + Your Charisma Modifier.
Force Save DC = 8 + Your Proficiency Bonus + Your Charisma Modifier.


Block

You may call upon the force and your training in lightsaber combat in order to negate a melee attack, calling upon your connection to the force to speed your reflexes and strengthen your limbs against the blow. While you are wielding a Lightsaber, you may, as a reaction, attempt to negate a melee strike that has been confirmed as a hit with a charisma save, with a DC equal to the attack roll. If the save is successful, the jedi takes no damage.

Jedi Path

The Jedi Order is seperated into three seperate branches. The Guardian Path, The Consular Path, and the Sentinel Path.

Guardian

The Jedi Guardian is a physical combatant first and foremost. Using their knowledge of lightsaber combat and the force to hone themselves into dangerous foes.

Acrobatic Recovery

At 3rd level, when a Jedi Guardian would be knocked prone by an effect, they may make an Acrobatics check, at a DC of 10, and on a success they remain standing.

Force Intuition

At 6th level, a Jedi Guardians passive ability to sense their surroundings has increased to the point where the force warns them of impending danger long before their physical sense could detect any sign of it. As such, they may replace their Dexterity score with their charisma score for the sake of Initiative Checks.

Elusive Target

At 10th level, a Jedi Guardian has mastered the techniques required to battle against ranged attackers wielding a lightsaber, when the Jedi is targeted with a ranged attack, adjacent enemies must make a Dexterity Save vs your Force Save DC, if successful, the attack resolves against your character as normal, if the enemy fails, the attack resolves against that enemy.

Battle Meditation

The Pinnacle of the Guardian Path, Battle Meditation is the result of a honed strategic mind, telepathically linking themselves to their allies and providing prescient communications and coordination. Once a Jedi reaches 14th level, this powerful technique becomes available to them. The use of Battle Meditation requires the Jedi spend a point of Inspiration, but the effects are potent indeed, all allies within 100 feet of the Jedi at the time of the initiation gain advantage on attack and damage rolls for as long as the Jedi concentrates on the meditation. Concentrating on Battle Meditation requires a Bonus action each turn.


Consular

TBD


Sentinel

TBD


Deflect

At 11th Level, a Jedi has mastered the ability to deflect ranged energy attacks with their lightsaber. When targeted by a ranged attack that deals radiant damage a Jedi may, as a reaction, make a charisma save with a DC equal to the attack roll. If successful, the ranged attack is negated.


Redirect Shot

The Jedi is capable of going beyond mere deflection, redirecting ranged energy attacks back at their attackers. Should they successfully Deflect a ranged attack, they may make a ranged attack against an enemy within 120 feet. Using the damage of the deflected attack should this attack succeed.


Throw Lightsaber

At 15th Level, a Jedi may throw and retrieve their lightsaber as a standard and bonus action respectively, the Thrown saber has a range of 30*Charisma Modifier feet, and gains advantage on damage rolls for the attack. The saber can only be retrieved while in the throwing range.


Lightsaber Mastery

At 17th level, a Jedi has permanent advantage on attack rolls made with lightsaber weapons.


Jedi Mastery

At 20th level, a true master Jedi is expert at channeling the force, be it through physical action or mystical might. The Jedi may enter a meditative state, they are aware of their surroundings while in this state, but are otherwise helpless and immobile. At any time, the Jedi can leave this state, and the first attack roll, or force related charisma check made thereafter is considered a natural 20. They may repeat this at any time, however entering the state requires an action.

[johnswiftwood]

Figured I'd take a quick crack at this.

Jedi
HIT POINTS
Hit Dice: d10
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (or 5) + your constitution modifier per Jedi level after 1st.

PROFICIENCIES
Armor: Light Armor.
Weapons: Simple Weapons, Lightsabers.
Tools: Starships.

Saving Throws: Wisdom, Charisma
Skills:


Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features
Force Powers Known


1st
+2
Lightsaber Defense, Force Sensitivity.
1


2nd
+2
Block
2


3rd
+2
Jedi Order
2


4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement
2


5th
+3

3


6th
+3
Jedi Order Feature
3


7th
+3

4


8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement
4


9th
+4

5


10th
+4
Jedi Order Feature
5


11th
+4
Deflect
5


12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement
6


13th
+5
Redirect shot
6


14th
+5
Jedi Order Feature
6


15th
+5
Throw Lightsaber
7


16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement
7


17th
+6
Lightsaber Mastery
7


18th
+6

8


19th
+6
Ability Score Improvement
8


20th
+6
Power of the Force
8



A Jedi was a Force-sensitive individual, most often a member of the Jedi Order, who studied, served, and used the mystical energies of the Force; usually, the light side of the Force.

Lightsaber Defense

The Jedi is a capable combatant with their lightsaber, even at an early stage in their career. As a bonus action, you can ready yourself to parry incoming melee attacks, increasing your AC by 1 against any such attacks until your next turn.

Force Sensitivity

The Jedi are capable of studying and manipulating the arcane mysteries of the force, an energy field that binds life together and can achieve powerful effects thereby. You learn a number of force powers of your choice, as indicated by the force powers column, starting with one at first level.

Force Attack Modifier = Your Proficiency Bonus + Your Charisma Modifier.
Force Save DC = 8 + Your Proficiency Bonus + Your Charisma Modifier.


Block

You may call upon the force and your training in lightsaber combat in order to negate a melee attack, calling upon your connection to the force to speed your reflexes and strengthen your limbs against the blow. While you are wielding a Lightsaber, you may, as a reaction, attempt to negate a melee strike that has been confirmed as a hit with a charisma save, with a DC equal to the attack roll. If the save is successful, the jedi takes no damage.

Jedi Path

The Jedi Order is seperated into three seperate branches. The Guardian Path, The Consular Path, and the Sentinel Path.

Guardian

The Jedi Guardian is a physical combatant first and foremost. Using their knowledge of lightsaber combat and the force to hone themselves into dangerous foes.

Acrobatic Recovery

At 3rd level, when a Jedi Guardian would be knocked prone by an effect, they may make an Acrobatics check, at a DC of 10, and on a success they remain standing.

Force Intuition

At 6th level, a Jedi Guardians passive ability to sense their surroundings has increased to the point where the force warns them of impending danger long before their physical sense could detect any sign of it. As such, they may replace their Dexterity score with their charisma score for the sake of Initiative Checks.

Elusive Target

At 10th level, a Jedi Guardian has mastered the techniques required to battle against ranged attackers wielding a lightsaber, when the Jedi is targeted with a ranged attack, adjacent enemies must make a Dexterity Save vs your Force Save DC, if successful, the attack resolves against your character as normal, if the enemy fails, the attack resolves against that enemy.

Battle Meditation

The Pinnacle of the Guardian Path, Battle Meditation is the result of a honed strategic mind, telepathically linking themselves to their allies and providing prescient communications and coordination. Once a Jedi reaches 14th level, this powerful technique becomes available to them. The use of Battle Meditation requires the Jedi spend a point of Inspiration, but the effects are potent indeed, all allies within 100 feet of the Jedi at the time of the initiation gain advantage on attack and damage rolls for as long as the Jedi concentrates on the meditation. Concentrating on Battle Meditation requires a Bonus action each turn.


Consular

TBD


Sentinel

TBD


Deflect

At 11th Level, a Jedi has mastered the ability to deflect ranged energy attacks with their lightsaber. When targeted by a ranged attack that deals radiant damage a Jedi may, as a reaction, make a charisma save with a DC equal to the attack roll. If successful, the ranged attack is negated.


Redirect Shot

The Jedi is capable of going beyond mere deflection, redirecting ranged energy attacks back at their attackers. Should they successfully Deflect a ranged attack, they may make a ranged attack against an enemy within 120 feet. Using the damage of the deflected attack should this attack succeed.


Throw Lightsaber

At 15th Level, a Jedi may throw and retrieve their lightsaber as a standard and bonus action respectively, the Thrown saber has a range of 30*Charisma Modifier feet, and gains advantage on damage rolls for the attack. The saber can only be retrieved while in the throwing range.


Lightsaber Mastery

At 17th level, a Jedi has permanent advantage on attack rolls made with lightsaber weapons.


Jedi Mastery

At 20th level, a true master Jedi is expert at channeling the force, be it through physical action or mystical might. The Jedi may enter a meditative state, they are aware of their surroundings while in this state, but are otherwise helpless and immobile. At any time, the Jedi can leave this state, and the first attack roll, or force related charisma check made thereafter is considered a natural 20. They may repeat this at any time, however entering the state requires an action.

Jedi is too lightside exclusive.

I think i should work on items, since that's easiest to build and balance.

[Artagon]

Here is my first crack at a Warlock Pact version of Force User. I didn't make any modifications to the base class to make it as seamless an integration as possible. I might want to do invocations that are force exclusive, with dark/light requirements.. but honestly, it's probably not necessary.. Spell selection and roleplaying should be enough to show a dark or light side force user.

The Force
The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.

Expanded Spell List
The Force lets you choose from an expanded list of spells when you learn a warlock spell. The following spells are added to the warlock spell list for you.

Force Expanded Spells

Spell Level Spells
1st Thunderwave, Command
2nd Gust of Wind, Levitate
3rd Clairvoyance, Haste
4th Confusion, Freedom of Movement
5th Telekinesis, Scrying


Force Empathy
Beginning at 1st level, you gain proficiency in Insight. Additionally, you gain Expertise with the Insight skill, meaning that you apply twice your proficiency bonus when making Wisdom (Insight) checks.

Battle-Mind
Beginning at 6th level, provided you are wielding a non-heavy weapon and you are not wearing medium or heavy armor or a shield, you may use a bonus action to enter a state of Battle-Mind, which lasts for 1 minute. It ends early if you are incapacitated or if you don medium or heavy armor, a heavy weapon, or a shield.

While your Battle-Mind is active, you gain the following benefits:

You gain a bonus to your AC equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of +1).
Your walking speed increases by 10 feet
You have advantage on Strength (Athletics) checks.
You gain a bonus to any Constitution saving throw you make to maintain your concentration on a spell. The bonus equals your Charisma modifier (minimum of +1)


You can use this feature twice. You regain all expended uses of it when you finish a short or long rest.

Deflect Missiles
Starting at 10th level, you can use your reaction to deflect the missile when you are hit by a ranged weapon attack. When you do so the damage you take from the attack is reduced by 1d10 + your Dexterity Modifier + your Warlock level.
If you reduce the damage to 0 in this way, you can redirect the missile at another target. Make a spell attack roll against one creature that you can see within 60 feet. This attack deals damage equal to the damage of the original attack. You may redirect missiles a number of times equal to your Charisma Modifier (minimum 1). Once you have done so, you may not Deflect Missiles again until you finish a short or long rest.

Force Mastery
At 14th level, you gain one of the following options:

Force Mage: You gain one additional Spell Slot and one additional Invocation.
Blade Master: You gain the Extra Attack feature. If you already have Thirsting Blade, this allows you to attack three times when using the Attack action.
Force Sentinel: You now add your Charisma modifier to the damage reduced by Deflect Missiles. You also gain one additional Reaction per round.

[johnswiftwood]

Here is my first crack at a Warlock Pact version of Force User. I didn't make any modifications to the base class to make it as seamless an integration as possible. I might want to do invocations that are force exclusive, with dark/light requirements.. but honestly, it's probably not necessary.. Spell selection and roleplaying should be enough to show a dark or light side force user.

The Force
The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.

Expanded Spell List
The Force lets you choose from an expanded list of spells when you learn a warlock spell. The following spells are added to the warlock spell list for you.

Force Expanded Spells

Spell Level Spells
1st Thunderwave, Command
2nd Gust of Wind, Levitate
3rd Clairvoyance, Haste
4th Confusion, Freedom of Movement
5th Telekinesis, Scrying


Force Empathy
Beginning at 1st level, you gain proficiency in Insight. Additionally, you gain Expertise with the Insight skill, meaning that you apply twice your proficiency bonus when making Wisdom (Insight) checks.

Battle-Mind
Beginning at 6th level, provided you are wielding a non-heavy weapon and you are not wearing medium or heavy armor or a shield, you may use a bonus action to enter a state of Battle-Mind, which lasts for 1 minute. It ends early if you are incapacitated or if you don medium or heavy armor, a heavy weapon, or a shield.

While your Battle-Mind is active, you gain the following benefits:

You gain a bonus to your AC equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of +1).
Your walking speed increases by 10 feet
You have advantage on Strength (Athletics) checks.
You gain a bonus to any Constitution saving throw you make to maintain your concentration on a spell. The bonus equals your Charisma modifier (minimum of +1)


You can use this feature twice. You regain all expended uses of it when you finish a short or long rest.

Deflect Missiles
Starting at 10th level, you can use your reaction to deflect the missile when you are hit by a ranged weapon attack. When you do so the damage you take from the attack is reduced by 1d10 + your Dexterity Modifier + your Warlock level.
If you reduce the damage to 0 in this way, you can redirect the missile at another target. Make a spell attack roll against one creature that you can see within 60 feet. This attack deals damage equal to the damage of the original attack. You may redirect missiles a number of times equal to your Charisma Modifier (minimum 1). Once you have done so, you may not Deflect Missiles again until you finish a short or long rest.

Force Mastery
At 14th level, you gain one of the following options:

Force Mage: You gain one additional Spell Slot.
Blade Master: You gain the Extra Attack feature. If you already have Thirsting Blade, this allows you to attack three times when using the Attack action.
Force Sentinel: You now add your Charisma modifier to the damage reduced by Deflect Missiles. You also gain one additional Reaction per round.



i'm not liking it.

[Artagon]

i'm not liking it.

On this attempt I was simply trying to make a force user that could work in the stock 5e. As it is, I think that if someone wanted to play a Jedi in a fantasy setting, this could work.. You'd just want to be sure to select spells and invocations that felt force flavorful. I did toy with the idea of giving them a fighting style at 1st level as well as the 'Force Empathy'. Speaking of Force Empathy, this is how I made a Charisma based class (see my arguments earlier in the thread for why I think Jedi/Sith are Cha based) seem wise. Jedi are trained to be students of people, which is why they make excellent diplomats, information seekers, judges, etc.

Obviously I wasn't trying to make it Star Wars system dependant, or I'd have also created Invocations and adjusted the full spell selection. Is this what you don't like?

What specifically is it that you don't like? Perhaps I could explain my reasoning further or rework it if you have good arguments about it. Keep in mind that it should still be balanced with other classes, so trying to give them more oomph could be adverse to the balance of your game. As it stands I worry that it verges on too powerful.

[johnswiftwood]

On this attempt I was simply trying to make a force user that could work in the stock 5e. As it is, I think that if someone wanted to play a Jedi in a fantasy setting, this could work.. You'd just want to be sure to select spells and invocations that felt force flavorful. I did toy with the idea of giving them a fighting style at 1st level as well as the 'Force Empathy'. Speaking of Force Empathy, this is how I made a Charisma based class (see my arguments earlier in the thread for why I think Jedi/Sith are Cha based) seem wise. Jedi are trained to be students of people, which is why they make excellent diplomats, information seekers, judges, etc.

Obviously I wasn't trying to make it Star Wars system dependant, or I'd have also created Invocations and adjusted the full spell selection. Is this what you don't like?

What specifically is it that you don't like? Perhaps I could explain my reasoning further or rework it if you have good arguments about it. Keep in mind that it should still be balanced with other classes, so trying to give them more oomph could be adverse to the balance of your game. As it stands I worry that it verges on too powerful.

The idea of making jedi a subclass mostly.

[Squiddish]

The idea of making jedi a subclass mostly.

You could just remove the other warlock patron options, and just have patrons representing the light side, the dark side, and some of the other force philosophies. Pact of the blade and pact of the chain would represent different styles, force knowledge versus lightsaber skills. If, in addition to these changes, you swapped out the invocations to better represent some of the force powers you would have effectively transformed warlock into a viable force user class.

[T.G. Oskar]

Shii-Cho Form
You gain Proficiency in saber weapons
Your Dexterity score increases by 1
When you take the Attack action on your turn, you may attempt a Disarm maneuver (as per the DMG rules) as a bonus action.


Not here, from the sound of it. I'd probably ignore it.

Makashi Form
Prerequisite: Proficiency in Saber Weapons
When wielding a saber, as a reaction you may add your Proficiency Bonus to your AC against a melee attack. If the attack misses, you may immediately make a melee weapon attack against the foe who just missed you.


Defensive Duelist works fine here, as would one of the assorted "roll die+stat and reduce incoming damage by that much." I might use it as a single style-feat in place of having two separate defend-counterattack forms


I think we can use a variant on Mobile; instead of giving +10ft speed have it give Advantage on Athletics Acrobatics check made to jump, flip, etc.


The version I did above should work.


The version I did above should work


Boring; don't bother.


Hmm.. perhaps
??? Form
You gain Proficiency in Saber Weapons
Your Wisdom score increases by 1, to a maximum of 20
You can use your Wisdom instead of Strength or Dexterity for the attack and damage rolls of melee attacks using

I dunno, but...wouldn't it be better to treat the Lightsaber forms as Fighting Styles? They seem to work nicely that way, and they're better hard-coded than making them feats. Also, most Jedi tend to specialize in one form - like Obi-Wan specializing in Soresu to become the ultimate expression of it.

The feats mostly reflect that. Take the proficiency AND the ASI, and what you get is mostly FS worthy. You could limit those to Force users only, or at least the one form that requires the Force to actually use it (Ataru, because of the acrobatics requirement).

So, this would become:
Form I (Shii-Cho)
You gain a +1 to attack rolls and Armor Class/Defense when fighting against two or more adjacent opponents.

Shii-Cho is a basic Form, and suited for multiple opponents. Their key abilities are essentially the Disarming Attack and Sweeping Attack maneuvers from the Battlemaster. Giving both to them, plus an FS that's suited for multiple opponent combat, should make for a proper Shii-Cho adept. Plus, since it's a transitional form (sword -> lightsaber), it should work with any weapon you wield.

Form II (Makashi)
You can take a bonus action to Disengage during your turn.

Makashi is meant to be a fencing form, specializing in one-on-one combat. This is a really potent ability for a Fencer, as it allows Hit and Run tactics with a lightsaber. Most Makashi users will go for Dex to Attack and Damage by using a finesse lightsaber, and the main techniques are mostly Disarming Attack and Parry, but also Evasive Footwork and Precision Attack. The idea of the Fighting Style is to move, strike and fall back, particularly if you have a massive boost to speed.

Form III (Soresu)
When wielding a weapon with which you are proficient and another creature hits you with a melee or ranged attack, you can use your reaction to add your proficiency bonus to your AC, potentially causing the attack to miss you. You must use a lightsaber or a weapon that can deflect blasters to deflect blaster fire.

Soresu is supposed to be the ultimate defensive form. This is Defensive Duelist on steroids, but as a Fighting Style rather than a feat. Defensive Duelist, IMO, is rather weak as a feat, and most Fighting Styles are essentially +1 bonuses to certain abilities. Compare to Protection (use your reaction to impose disadvantage, which is much better than DD for an ally), Two Weapon Fighting/Dual Wielder comparisons (one adds damage, the other adds AC PLUS eases the accessibility to weapons and also provides a minor ribbon ability) or the UA Close Quarters Shooter (subsumes some of the traits of Sharpshooter). This is a considerable trade - you get an insanely good defensive Fighting Style, but someone else could get a washed-down version with the feat (say, a Makashi user) AND get their own fighting style which provides a greater benefit...for the cost of a feat.

Maneuver-wise, it's Parry and Riposte all the way.

Form IV (Ataru)
You must use the Force to learn this fighting style. You can spend your bonus action to empower yourself with the Force until the beginning of your next turn. While under this stance, you make Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks with advantage. You can also use your reaction when an opponent makes an opportunity attack to make a Dexterity (Acrobatics) check; the result of this check is treated as your Armor Class/Defense against the attack.

Ataru is a highly acrobatic form, so it makes sense that Acrobatics are added to it. The "tumble" effect is also meant to provide greater mobility, but not like Makashi does - and as a reaction instead of a bonus action, since you're already using it. That said, it's somewhat balanced by requiring the Force, AND your bonus action. Great maneuvers for Ataru involve Distracting Strike (I mean, how distracting can it be to spin back and forth to attack?), Evasive Footwork, and to an extent Feinting Attack and Pushing Attack.

Form V (Shien)
You can use your reaction to add your proficiency bonus to your Armor Class/Defense against a ranged attack. If your Armor Class/Defense alone would have avoided the attack, you can choose to deflect the missile back against the opponent. You make the ranged attack with proficiency, using your Strength for attack and damage (even if it's a projectile weapon), but it's otherwise treated as if you attacked with the weapon. You must use a lightsaber or a weapon capable of deflecting blaster fire to deflect a blaster attack.

Form V (Djem So)
You can spend your bonus action to add your proficiency bonus to damage rolls when making melee attacks until the beginning of your next turn.

Shien and Djem So are two sides of the same coin, meant to emphasize offense without ignoring defense. Shien is basically the Monk's Deflect Missiles class feature, except using Defensive Duelist as a base. Djem So is pretty unique, in that it adds an ever-increasing benefit to damage, but without sacrificing accuracy or defense, like Great Weapon Master or Sharpshooter; however, it clashes with something like TWF or Polearm Master, in that it seals off extra attacks that require a bonus action for increased damage on the rest.

Both styles favor offense over defense, so maneuvers like Menacing Strike, Pushing Strike and Riposte are perfect for it.

Form VI (Niman)
You can spend your bonus action to add a +1 bonus to your attack rolls, a +1 bonus to your Armor Class/Defense, or a +2 bonus to damage rolls with melee attacks until the beginning of your next turn.

Yeah, I can hear it - OP!! Well, sorta - you're spending your bonus action every turn to figure if you should go precise, offensive or defensive, so you could fail. It requires intuition to read the opponent and figure out what's the best way to deal with the opponent...which is basically Niman in a nutshell. Against opponents using Makashi or Djem So? Go defensive, with that sweet sweet +1 to AC/Def. Against Soresu users? Go precise, with that bonus to attack rolls to compensate for their superior defense. Against Shii-Cho? You're going solo - overwhelm them with damage. And so on.

Niman is meant to allow you to focus on other venues while still being skilled at swordplay, but Pushing Attack is a (semi-)canonical technique favored by Niman users.

Form VII (Juyo/Vaapad)
You can spend your bonus action to gain advantage on all attack rolls made until the beginning of your next turn, but all attacks made against you are done with advantage.

Juyo (for Dark Side users) and/or Vaapad (for Jedi, mostly) are the same style, and emphasize aggressiveness over cautiousness. Thus, the Barbarian's Reckless Attack is a dead ringer for it, except this one is on steroids and steals your bonus action. So, you might lose one or two attacks, but ALL attacks are made with advantage, so you're on average hitting more. This fits masterfully with GWM, because you're then adding damage to an already accurate (potentially ridiculously accurate) style.

Juyo/Vaapad users prefer aggressiveness, so expect stuff like Lunging Attack, Menacing Attack, Pushing Attack, Sweeping Attack and Trip Attack

And, as a bonus...

Dun Moch
As a bonus action, you can make a Charisma (Intimidation) check against an opponent. The opponent is allowed a Charisma saving throw against the attack. If the opponent fails the save, it becomes frightened until you make an attack or the end of your next turn, whichever comes first.

Jar'Kai
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.

Tràkata
When making the Attack action with a lightsaber (or any of its variants), you can make one Charisma (Deception) check before making any one single attack. The opponent is allowed a Wisdom (Insight) check against your check. If your check succeeds, you gain advantage on that attack. You can use this fighting style only once per turn.

Trispzest
You must have a flying speed to learn this fighting style. You gain advantage on all attacks made against opponents in the ground, but prone opponents gain advantage on attacks made against you.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I dunno, but...wouldn't it be better to treat the Lightsaber forms as Fighting Styles? They seem to work nicely that way, and they're better hard-coded than making them feats. Also, most Jedi tend to specialize in one form - like Obi-Wan specializing in Soresu to become the ultimate expression of it.
Hmm. I think you're right. Johnswiftwood, ignore everything I just posted; T.G. Oskar's approach is much better.

[johnswiftwood]

I dunno, but...wouldn't it be better to treat the Lightsaber forms as Fighting Styles? They seem to work nicely that way, and they're better hard-coded than making them feats. Also, most Jedi tend to specialize in one form - like Obi-Wan specializing in Soresu to become the ultimate expression of it.

The feats mostly reflect that. Take the proficiency AND the ASI, and what you get is mostly FS worthy. You could limit those to Force users only, or at least the one form that requires the Force to actually use it (Ataru, because of the acrobatics requirement).

So, this would become:
Form I (Shii-Cho)
You gain a +1 to attack rolls and Armor Class/Defense when fighting against two or more adjacent opponents.

Shii-Cho is a basic Form, and suited for multiple opponents. Their key abilities are essentially the Disarming Attack and Sweeping Attack maneuvers from the Battlemaster. Giving both to them, plus an FS that's suited for multiple opponent combat, should make for a proper Shii-Cho adept. Plus, since it's a transitional form (sword -> lightsaber), it should work with any weapon you wield.

Form II (Makashi)
You can take a bonus action to Disengage during your turn.

Makashi is meant to be a fencing form, specializing in one-on-one combat. This is a really potent ability for a Fencer, as it allows Hit and Run tactics with a lightsaber. Most Makashi users will go for Dex to Attack and Damage by using a finesse lightsaber, and the main techniques are mostly Disarming Attack and Parry, but also Evasive Footwork and Precision Attack. The idea of the Fighting Style is to move, strike and fall back, particularly if you have a massive boost to speed.

Form III (Soresu)
When wielding a weapon with which you are proficient and another creature hits you with a melee or ranged attack, you can use your reaction to add your proficiency bonus to your AC, potentially causing the attack to miss you. You must use a lightsaber or a weapon that can deflect blasters to deflect blaster fire.

Soresu is supposed to be the ultimate defensive form. This is Defensive Duelist on steroids, but as a Fighting Style rather than a feat. Defensive Duelist, IMO, is rather weak as a feat, and most Fighting Styles are essentially +1 bonuses to certain abilities. Compare to Protection (use your reaction to impose disadvantage, which is much better than DD for an ally), Two Weapon Fighting/Dual Wielder comparisons (one adds damage, the other adds AC PLUS eases the accessibility to weapons and also provides a minor ribbon ability) or the UA Close Quarters Shooter (subsumes some of the traits of Sharpshooter). This is a considerable trade - you get an insanely good defensive Fighting Style, but someone else could get a washed-down version with the feat (say, a Makashi user) AND get their own fighting style which provides a greater benefit...for the cost of a feat.

Maneuver-wise, it's Parry and Riposte all the way.

Form IV (Ataru)
You must use the Force to learn this fighting style. You can spend your bonus action to empower yourself with the Force until the beginning of your next turn. While under this stance, you make Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks with advantage. You can also use your reaction when an opponent makes an opportunity attack to make a Dexterity (Acrobatics) check; the result of this check is treated as your Armor Class/Defense against the attack.

Ataru is a highly acrobatic form, so it makes sense that Acrobatics are added to it. The "tumble" effect is also meant to provide greater mobility, but not like Makashi does - and as a reaction instead of a bonus action, since you're already using it. That said, it's somewhat balanced by requiring the Force, AND your bonus action. Great maneuvers for Ataru involve Distracting Strike (I mean, how distracting can it be to spin back and forth to attack?), Evasive Footwork, and to an extent Feinting Attack and Pushing Attack.

Form V (Shien)
You can use your reaction to add your proficiency bonus to your Armor Class/Defense against a ranged attack. If your Armor Class/Defense alone would have avoided the attack, you can choose to deflect the missile back against the opponent. You make the ranged attack with proficiency, using your Strength for attack and damage (even if it's a projectile weapon), but it's otherwise treated as if you attacked with the weapon. You must use a lightsaber or a weapon capable of deflecting blaster fire to deflect a blaster attack.

Form V (Djem So)
You can spend your bonus action to add your proficiency bonus to damage rolls when making melee attacks until the beginning of your next turn.

Shien and Djem So are two sides of the same coin, meant to emphasize offense without ignoring defense. Shien is basically the Monk's Deflect Missiles class feature, except using Defensive Duelist as a base. Djem So is pretty unique, in that it adds an ever-increasing benefit to damage, but without sacrificing accuracy or defense, like Great Weapon Master or Sharpshooter; however, it clashes with something like TWF or Polearm Master, in that it seals off extra attacks that require a bonus action for increased damage on the rest.

Both styles favor offense over defense, so maneuvers like Menacing Strike, Pushing Strike and Riposte are perfect for it.

Form VI (Niman)
You can spend your bonus action to add a +1 bonus to your attack rolls, a +1 bonus to your Armor Class/Defense, or a +2 bonus to damage rolls with melee attacks until the beginning of your next turn.

Yeah, I can hear it - OP!! Well, sorta - you're spending your bonus action every turn to figure if you should go precise, offensive or defensive, so you could fail. It requires intuition to read the opponent and figure out what's the best way to deal with the opponent...which is basically Niman in a nutshell. Against opponents using Makashi or Djem So? Go defensive, with that sweet sweet +1 to AC/Def. Against Soresu users? Go precise, with that bonus to attack rolls to compensate for their superior defense. Against Shii-Cho? You're going solo - overwhelm them with damage. And so on.

Niman is meant to allow you to focus on other venues while still being skilled at swordplay, but Pushing Attack is a (semi-)canonical technique favored by Niman users.

Form VII (Juyo/Vaapad)
You can spend your bonus action to gain advantage on all attack rolls made until the beginning of your next turn, but all attacks made against you are done with advantage.

Juyo (for Dark Side users) and/or Vaapad (for Jedi, mostly) are the same style, and emphasize aggressiveness over cautiousness. Thus, the Barbarian's Reckless Attack is a dead ringer for it, except this one is on steroids and steals your bonus action. So, you might lose one or two attacks, but ALL attacks are made with advantage, so you're on average hitting more. This fits masterfully with GWM, because you're then adding damage to an already accurate (potentially ridiculously accurate) style.

Juyo/Vaapad users prefer aggressiveness, so expect stuff like Lunging Attack, Menacing Attack, Pushing Attack, Sweeping Attack and Trip Attack

And, as a bonus...

Dun Moch
As a bonus action, you can make a Charisma (Intimidation) check against an opponent. The opponent is allowed a Charisma saving throw against the attack. If the opponent fails the save, it becomes frightened until you make an attack or the end of your next turn, whichever comes first.

Jar'Kai
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.

Tràkata
When making the Attack action with a lightsaber (or any of its variants), you can make one Charisma (Deception) check before making any one single attack. The opponent is allowed a Wisdom (Insight) check against your check. If your check succeeds, you gain advantage on that attack. You can use this fighting style only once per turn.

Trispzest
You must have a flying speed to learn this fighting style. You gain advantage on all attacks made against opponents in the ground, but prone opponents gain advantage on attacks made against you.


Hmm. I think you're right. Johnswiftwood, ignore everything I just posted; T.G. Oskar's approach is much better.

okay, now we're getting somewhere! i was thinking, except for the barbarianesque subclass, all force warriors would be eldritch knights with various spellpools.

[T.G. Oskar]

If you're dealing with classes, it's nice to go the "few classes" approach, since most characters will be variations on a theme.

At the very least, based on the original movies, you should have a few key classes, with specific approaches.

Force Sensitive, which deals with everyone able to tap into the Force and has actual training on it. I think the upcoming Mystic is the right approach, as Force powers are mostly self-buffs and few actual active powers (Jedi Mind Trick, or Force Lightning, for example). You could work Force powers as disciplines, covering stuff as Telepathy (which ends up with the Mind Trick at higher levels), Psychokinesis (Force Push, Force Pull for the lightsaber), Battle Meditation (for combat, and excellent for Jedi Consulars when fighting), and so on. You can potentially split the Force Sensitive into Force Warrior and Force Savant, as suggested, with the latter taking the pure fighter's approach (Jedi Guardian, Jedi Brute), while the other focuses more on Force powers (Jedi Consular)
Scoundrel; because we need Han Solo, of course. This would provide for the Smuggler (Han, Dash Rendar) and the Bounty Hunter (Boba Fett), plus any other subclass that doesn't require either Force training OR combat training.
Soldier. Think Finn, from Ep. VII, or Chewie; combat training, but very little else. You can have any combat-based subclass here.
Noble. Yes, noble. Think Leia, or her mother Padme. They'd serve a bit as your Bard, except without Force powers - resources, and being the face. There was, there is, and there always will be a Noble somewhere. You could strip the Noble of its...nobility and have a broader approach, probably covering what C-3PO did for the group (and if you think that is boring, remember how he basically turned the Ewoks from "noble savages" to "fighting force", in case someone thinks playing a Diplomat is boring)
Engineer. This would be your tech specialist, something that no other class should easily replicate. No matter how skilled Han could be at patching the Millenium Falcon, he couldn't possibly fully repair it, or even build/modify a new one. An Engineer should do this. Subclasses are mostly its specialties - Vehicles, Droids, Weapons, etc.
Scout. Because...when you look for classes, Scout is always a thing. You could also call it Explorer, if you want to. Mostly, the parts of 5e Ranger focused on exploration, plus the stuff from 5e Rogue that the Scoundrel doesn't need. Scout could also serve as the basis for a proper "Gunner" class, if judging by the way Scout Troopers could specialize into being Snipers - easy to extrapolate that the Rebel Alliance/Resistance would work the same way.

Classes I find relatively easy - races not that much, specifically with Droids. Creating a Droid might not be as easy, since they're so distinct. Specifically, the existence of Astromech Droids (i.e R2-D2 and BB-8), which somewhat defy the concept of typical character races for being so specific (though, you could justify an Astromech Droid as your party's Engineer?) But, that's just the tip of the iceberg - just going by the movies alone, you should have Humans, Wookies, Droids, Jawas, Ewoks, Mon Calamari, Twi'leks, Hutts...and the list goes on (raise your hand if you know about Clawdites!)

[Grod_The_Giant]

I dunno, I think Scout and Scoundrel could be the same thing-- they're both light, skilled skirmisher types. Noble strikes me as too narrow for 5e as well. I think they'd make a good three subclasses for your Rogue-type class, though.

[T.G. Oskar]

I dunno, I think Scout and Scoundrel could be the same thing-- they're both light, skilled skirmisher types. Noble strikes me as too narrow for 5e as well. I think they'd make a good three subclasses for your Rogue-type class, though.

Well, for several of the Star Wars-inspired games (d20 RPG, Saga Edition, Galaxies, KotR), they are two distinct classes. However, they still overlap mechanically - notice how I mention the Scoundrel first, and then I mention the Scout on passing.

The thing between the Scout and the Scoundrel is that both are VERY similar, but the fluff behind them is drastically different. A Scout, by nature, IS part of the military - its skills are suited for skirmishes, exploring and specialized equipment, but they have nothing on the way of social skills (speaking mostly of Scout Troopers that, Legends-wise, had poor unit cohesion with the Stormtroopers). The Scoundrel is less a skirmisher and more of a skillmonkey, preferring not to fight and doing stuff for advance pay and high-risk pay (Han's smuggling activities, Boba Fett's bounty hunting) rather than for a given purpose. However, when you translate that into mechanics, what splits them is...mostly that the Scout behaves like a spell-less Ranger and the Scoundrel translates into something between the Bard and the Rogue, but in terms of skills only. Oh, and that Scoundrels are super lucky.

The Noble enters the same situation - mechanically similar, but was considered a different class altogether. The Noble is, in essence, a series of backgrounds based on your (former or current) affiliation - you could have been part of an ancient dynasty pre-Galactic Republic (say, Naboo), or you could have been part of the Galactic Senate (not necessarily a noble but still works), or someone raised into a Lord because of services to the Emperor (if working for the Empire). All three could be considered part of the Noble, but don't explain certain stuff - what would you consider Leia and Padme, in any case?

In the end, it's just the need to make a class that could reunite such disparate elements as Leia and Han being essentially the same class, because nothing else fits (Han's a scoundrel through and through, but Leia wasn't part of the military and only LATER she ends up realizing she's Force-sensitive, therefore justifying multiclassing). Well-defined classes help, but they have to be well-defined in the subclass aspect, or else end up with the Warlord/Marshal problem (everybody wants the class being made, but you need to justify enough subclasses for its existence). Scoundrel is easy, Noble and Scout are not, and that's where your argument fits in; however, associating both with the Scoundrel (which is a general term for an undesirable, often criminal, element) creates a fluff problem.

Arguably, the better (and I dare say, more elegant) solution is to find a class concept AND class name that could reunite all those elements (Bounty Hunter, Scout, Diplomat, Sniper, maybe even Scoundrel) into one, with those becoming proper subclasses, without a fixed element (Scoundrel for criminals, Fringer for those living in the Outer Worlds, etc.) I find this a better solution, but difficult to justify fluff-wise. Mostly because, in the end, classes mostly reinforce the combat aspect of the game, whereas other classes in previous games are better suited for backgrounds (Fringer is one, Noble is another). The big problem here is to build a solid chassis for this class, where subclasses can exist that provide ample differences, while still providing a uniting element for all of them. I'd say the Rogue's chassis, WITH Expertise, a good start.

[johnswiftwood]

Well, for several of the Star Wars-inspired games (d20 RPG, Saga Edition, Galaxies, KotR), they are two distinct classes. However, they still overlap mechanically - notice how I mention the Scoundrel first, and then I mention the Scout on passing.

The thing between the Scout and the Scoundrel is that both are VERY similar, but the fluff behind them is drastically different. A Scout, by nature, IS part of the military - its skills are suited for skirmishes, exploring and specialized equipment, but they have nothing on the way of social skills (speaking mostly of Scout Troopers that, Legends-wise, had poor unit cohesion with the Stormtroopers). The Scoundrel is less a skirmisher and more of a skillmonkey, preferring not to fight and doing stuff for advance pay and high-risk pay (Han's smuggling activities, Boba Fett's bounty hunting) rather than for a given purpose. However, when you translate that into mechanics, what splits them is...mostly that the Scout behaves like a spell-less Ranger and the Scoundrel translates into something between the Bard and the Rogue, but in terms of skills only. Oh, and that Scoundrels are super lucky.

The Noble enters the same situation - mechanically similar, but was considered a different class altogether. The Noble is, in essence, a series of backgrounds based on your (former or current) affiliation - you could have been part of an ancient dynasty pre-Galactic Republic (say, Naboo), or you could have been part of the Galactic Senate (not necessarily a noble but still works), or someone raised into a Lord because of services to the Emperor (if working for the Empire). All three could be considered part of the Noble, but don't explain certain stuff - what would you consider Leia and Padme, in any case?

In the end, it's just the need to make a class that could reunite such disparate elements as Leia and Han being essentially the same class, because nothing else fits (Han's a scoundrel through and through, but Leia wasn't part of the military and only LATER she ends up realizing she's Force-sensitive, therefore justifying multiclassing). Well-defined classes help, but they have to be well-defined in the subclass aspect, or else end up with the Warlord/Marshal problem (everybody wants the class being made, but you need to justify enough subclasses for its existence). Scoundrel is easy, Noble and Scout are not, and that's where your argument fits in; however, associating both with the Scoundrel (which is a general term for an undesirable, often criminal, element) creates a fluff problem.

Arguably, the better (and I dare say, more elegant) solution is to find a class concept AND class name that could reunite all those elements (Bounty Hunter, Scout, Diplomat, Sniper, maybe even Scoundrel) into one, with those becoming proper subclasses, without a fixed element (Scoundrel for criminals, Fringer for those living in the Outer Worlds, etc.) I find this a better solution, but difficult to justify fluff-wise. Mostly because, in the end, classes mostly reinforce the combat aspect of the game, whereas other classes in previous games are better suited for backgrounds (Fringer is one, Noble is another). The big problem here is to build a solid chassis for this class, where subclasses can exist that provide ample differences, while still providing a uniting element for all of them. I'd say the Rogue's chassis, WITH Expertise, a good start.

The reason i picked the classes i did was because they each did the same thing as another.

Warriors fight
Savants cast
Gunners shoot
And gadgeteers do gadgets.

However each of their subclasses does it a different way.