3.5 "Steal Spell" Spellthief questions

[saguitarius]

Hello.

I seek for advise from those who have played a Spellthief in 3.5 or have DM'd campaigns with such characters.
I'm going to DM a campaign, one of the characters will be Spellthief 9.

First Question
Steal Spell (Su), how does it work exactly?

A spellthief who hits an opponent with a successful sneak attack can choose to forgo dealing 1d6 points of sneak attack damage and instead steal a spell, or the potential to cast a specific known spell, from his target.
Can Spellthief use this ability multiple times in one round? For example, she makes a successful sneak attack for 3d6 damage. Can she steal 3 spells by forgoing 3d6 damage?
By RAW it seems that there's nothing to stop doing that. Steal Spell is a supernatural ability, and it is "no action" in this particular case.

Second Question
Spellthief 9 can:
- steal spell
- steal spell effect
- steal energy resistance
- steal spell-like ability

Can she combine these abilities in one single attack?
For example, she makes a successful sneak attack 3d6. Can she split it?
- 1d6 for steal spell
- 1d6 for steal spell effect
- 1d6 for steal spell like ability
So she foregoes her sneak damage completely in order to use her abilities.

[Mr Adventurer]

I'd allow it. Spellthieves suck.

[Troacctid]

It is legal. What stops you doing it is that there's a limit on how many spells you can store, which means it can quickly become unprofitable for you to give up damage to keep stealing them only to immediately throw them away because you can't hold onto them.

If you want to steal more spells than you can hold, I recommend trading away Absorb Spell for Spell Eater, which will let you eat the extra spell levels to heal yourself.

EDIT: Per your edit, note that you can steal multiple spells in one round, but you can still only steal one spell per attack. You cannot trade away more than 1d6 sneak attack damage on a hit to steal extra spells. You have to hit multiple times.

[Rangô]

I don't think that's the idea, as it's read you can give up 1d6 sneak damage per hit. Remember that you will steal the speel and you will negate the victim to cast the stolen spell for the next minute. So say at level 9 you're able to hit two times your foe, it turns into 6 spells stolen of 4th level or less and the victim can't use any of those in the next 10 rounds... It seems to me unbalanced at all.

[Mr Adventurer]

It is legal. What stops you doing it is that there's a limit on how many spells you can store, which means it can quickly become unprofitable for you to give up damage to keep stealing them only to immediately throw them away because you can't hold onto them.
I think that's a better outcome than +1d6 damage.


If you want to steal more spells than you can hold, I recommend trading away Absorb Spell for Spell Eater, which will let you eat the extra spell levels to heal yourself.

Ooh, where's that from?

[Rangô]

It is legal. What stops you doing it is that there's a limit on how many spells you can store, which means it can quickly become unprofitable for you to give up damage to keep stealing them only to immediately throw them away because you can't hold onto them.

If you want to steal more spells than you can hold, I recommend trading away Absorb Spell for Spell Eater, which will let you eat the extra spell levels to heal yourself.

Ok! I did forget that point... so yes, 9th level is only 1 level 4th spell... pathetic

[Troacctid]

Ooh, where's that from?
Dragon Magazine #353.

[Mr Adventurer]

Ah, OK. Thanks.

[saguitarius]

EDIT: Per your edit, note that you can steal multiple spells in one round, but you can still only steal one spell per attack. You cannot trade away more than 1d6 sneak attack damage on a hit to steal extra spells. You have to hit multiple times.

So, if a Spellfthief has BAB +6/+1:
- she makes a full attack action
- she makes two sneak attacks (if she can sneak attack, of course)
- each time she trades 1d6

As a result, she steals two spells.
Is that correct?


In my understanding, she could have traded 2d6 of sneak attack damage from one sneak attack to steal two spells. Of 3d6 to steal three spells.

[Troacctid]

So, if Spellfthief has BAB +6/+1:
- she makes a full attack action
- she makes two sneak attacks (if she can sneak attack, of course)
- each time she trades 1d6

As a result, she steals two spells.
Is that correct?
Yes, assuming her attacks are successful.


In my understanding, she could have traded 2d6 of sneak attack damage from one sneak attack to steal two spells. Of 3d6 to steal three spells.
Nope. To allow this, it would have to use language like "any number of sneak attack damage dice" instead of "1d6 points of sneak attack damage."

For comparison, take a look at the wording of Awesome Blow, which only lets you take the penalty once, and contrast it against Power Attack, which lets you scale the penalty as much as you like.

[saguitarius]

The second question, which is rather interesting.

Spellthief 9 can:
- steal spell
- steal spell effect
- steal energy resistance
- steal spell-like ability

Can she combine these abilities in one single attack?
For example, she makes a successful sneak attack 3d6. Can she split it?
- 1d6 for steal spell
- 1d6 for steal spell effect
- 1d6 for steal spell like ability
So she foregoes her sneak damage completely in order to use her abilities.

[Zombimode]

Yes, this is possible.

In short, each of those class features provides an option to trade away SA dice for some other effect, pretty much like "ambush" feats do. Like with ambush feats, as long as you have SA dice to trade you can combine these effects.