Whips. How can they be houseruled, yet balanced, to act like a real whip?

[goremonger]

A whip should be be able to wrap around tree limbs and such to let a player swing like Indiana Jones.

In talented hands they should be able to entangle/grapple a limb, trip, disarm, or snatch an item.
I like the idea of being able to pull an entangled opponent forward if you have the strength for it. Like thornwhip.

How could they do this in 5e? Maybe through some feats, like the UA weapon specific feats.
Any ideas, without making them overpowered?

Plus, I love the reach and the chance to do sneak attack damage through finesse, but have a little trouble imagining a whip doing as much damage as more deadly weapons with a high sneak attack. I guess whips used in battle could be assumed to be woven with metal cords to make them more deadly. Thoughts?

[Aett_Thorn]

The Martial Adept feat allows you to take a Battle Master Maneuver and use it regardless of your class, but it seems like a pretty weak feat since it only allows you one use (and non-scaling damage) per short rest. As such, I would say create a new feat for this:

Whip Mastery

1) You learn two maneuvers of your choice from among the following choices available to the Battle Master archetype: Disarming Attach, Distracting Strike, Goading Attack, Menacing Attack, Precision Attack, Riposte, or Trip Attack. You gain two superiority die (d6) to fuel these maneuvers.

2) You have learned to use your whip to assist in non-combat situations. As an action, you can use your whip in one of the following ways:
*You can wrap the whip around an object, such as a lever, tree branch, or other small device, and can then use the "Use an Object" action on subsequent rounds. This allows you to utilize these objects from up to the whip's full reach (10 feet). A separate action must be used to disengage the whip from the object.
*You can use your whip to make a sharp snap of noise, audible up to 60 feet away. If done while hiding, this action will provoke a contested Stealth check against any receptor's perception.
*With a successful attack roll, you can wrap the whip around a Large or smaller creature's arm, waist, or leg. This creature is considered to have the grappled condition. If used on a friendly ally, this can be used to prevent a fall. Using the whip in this way causes no damage.

[Gastronomie]

act like a real whip
like Indiana JonesYou're sure you're talking about the same stuff here?

OT: Houseruling it works finnesse is nothing wrong, I've allowed it before. For the record, DEX characters already have bows that have ranges of 60 feet, so having a weapon with a range of 10 feet is really nothing special.

Aett_Thorn's homebrew feat looks pretty darn cool, though I might change action to bonus action for the utility thing, to open up more creative options.

[clash]

For the swinging from branches and stuff, you can already do this with a whip, some creativity and a reasonable dm.

For the attacking stuff, battle master can give you what you want there.

And for Sneak attack, many whips had steel tips made to cut flesh so it is reasonable to perform a sneak attack with it.

[Foxydono]

Currently I am using a homebrew whip feat with my Ranger that does the following:

Whip Master:
- Your damage with a whip increases to 1d6.
- While you are wielding a whip, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach.
- On your turn, as a bonus action, you may attempt to trip or disarm an opponent within your reach. On a succesful attack roll, the target must make a Strength saving throw (DC = 8 + Strenght bonus + profiency bonus). On a failed save the target is either knocked prone or disarmed. You can only trip an opponent that is one size larger than you or smaller.

The fact that you can attempt trip or disarm as a bonus action is quite strong, but not OP. Lots of creatures don't have weapons and most of the high end creatures have a very high Strength, so they often make the saving throw.

[MinotaurWarrior]

I don't see anything RAW to prevent you from doing those things right now.

Combat whips wouldn't have metal in the chord (that would really mess with their function) but might have a metal blade or a point at the end. One of those, going at supersonic speeds, going across your neck... is an absolutely terrifying sneak attack.

[MrStabby]

I am not sure what you mean by "act like a real whip".

There is plenty wrong with a whip as a weapon of war, only some of which the rules capture.

Firstly, the end of the whip moves fast but it also moves sideways rather than thrusting. This makes it great for inflicting painful fleshwounds but pretty terrible for inflicting incapacitating or lethal wounds. This is why it is used for punishment/driving rather than war. In fact almost every circumstance when you want a weapon that is very likely to not kill someone you would historicaly chose a whip. To me this doesn't need too much of a change as it is in part captured by the low hit die of the weapon. Simply stop the attribute bonus being added to damage and you have something that acts "like a real whip".

The second aspect is that a whip, whilst looking fast, can be slow to respond. With something like a spear, you thrust it forward from the haft and the point moves forwards pretty immediately. With a whip, you essentially set up a wave that travels down the tension of the cord so you have more of a response time. There is nothing stopping someone being accurate with a whip, but only against a stationary target.

Thirdly a whip has almost no armour piercing capability. Even is you stuck a blade on the end you are not imparting a lot of momentum through the armour (again as the movement is generally along the surface). Even a shield will favour someone fighting against someone with a whip, plate mail will be distinctly unfair. Allowing someone to deduct their AC bonus from the damage dealt would probably represent this quite well.

Now whips do have a lot of upsides and there are fun things you can do with them, but those have mostly been covered already. If you treat a whip as a tool rather than a weapon I think you are getting closer to"act like a real whip".

[Eladain]

Combat whips wouldn't have metal in the chord (that would really mess with their function) but might have a metal blade or a point at the end. One of those, going at supersonic speeds, going across your neck... is an absolutely terrifying sneak attack.

Ya, past editions have had barbed whips and a dagger whip to illustrate this. I want to say 3/3.5 off the top of my head.

[JellyPooga]

I wouldn't worry too much about making a whip "deadly" with metal blades or the like. HP is an abstraction, so you can fluff a successful attack however you wish; cutting your foes brow, causing him to get blood in his eyes, is just as legitimate an explanation for losing a big chunk of HP as a deep cut to the leg or arm.

Likewise, for the "combat maneuvers" you might want from a whip, like wrapping it around a wrist or ankle; Battlemaster is directly applicable, but the "abstract HP" theory goes a long way. Just because you make someone stumble, doesn't mean they're prone, just because you pull someone off balance, doesn't mean they move toward you and just because you've wrapped your whip around their wrist or waist, doesn't mean they'll drop their weapon or be grappled/restrained. All of these things can be represented by HP loss, which is a combination of running out of health, luck and the ability/willingness to continue fighting.

A flavourful description goes a lot further than "I hit for 12 damage" and the whip is a perfect excuse to get stuck in to those flavourful descriptions, just to make it make sense compared to fighting with, say, a sword.

Having played a whip fighter before, I've had a blast breaking legs, putting out eyes, lashing a foe painfully to make him recoil before following up with a brutal shield-slam, lacerating exposed flesh and flaying the living skin from my opponents, not to mention wrenching joints, putting foes off balance, ringing helmets like a bell and so on and so forth. All of which was just HP damage.

Using a whip is a great tool for encouraging your own creativity, but you really don't need more rules for them, any more than you need additional rules to represent the advantage polearms should have against cavalry or the manner in which different weapons interact with different armour types (e.g. chain armour being fairly useless against piercing and bludgeoning).

[Joe the Rat]

Being able to use the whip's reach for shove(trip), and grapple (and grabbing objects/disarming as actions, not maneuvers) seems pretty straightforward. If you don't think every 'skinner needs that sort of kid n' play, make it a feat to do it.
-whip extends the character's reach for shove(trip) and grapple attempts, and to interact with objects in the environment
-Whip swing? Whips gain light property? Ignore half cover? Proficient with rope as an improvised weapon? Advantage against vampires?

Proficiency in land vehicles should make you proficient with the whip as a tool. Cracking and occasionally stinging and generally encouraging animals to git up. Not as useful against highly mobile targets, but at least you won't hit yourself in the face.


Ya, past editions have had barbed whips and a dagger whip to illustrate this. I want to say 3/3.5 off the top of my head.Don't forget the whip swords and ribbon swords! And flying axe heads! Some of which made it into D&D from "real life."

[Naanomi]

Like a real whip? Remove it from the weapon table, mention it under improvised weapons

[INDYSTAR188]

I wouldn't worry too much about making a whip "deadly" with metal blades or the like. HP is an abstraction, so you can fluff a successful attack however you wish; cutting your foes brow, causing him to get blood in his eyes, is just as legitimate an explanation for losing a big chunk of HP as a deep cut to the leg or arm.

Likewise, for the "combat maneuvers" you might want from a whip, like wrapping it around a wrist or ankle; Battlemaster is directly applicable, but the "abstract HP" theory goes a long way. Just because you make someone stumble, doesn't mean they're prone, just because you pull someone off balance, doesn't mean they move toward you and just because you've wrapped your whip around their wrist or waist, doesn't mean they'll drop their weapon or be grappled/restrained. All of these things can be represented by HP loss, which is a combination of running out of health, luck and the ability/willingness to continue fighting.

Rather than merely describing hp damage in abstract I would argue the BM maneuver save throw is more representative. So PC uses trip attack; he hits now whether it actually caused a stumble is up to the save.

[JellyPooga]

Rather than merely describing hp damage in abstract I would argue the BM maneuver save throw is more representative. So PC uses trip attack; he hits now whether it actually caused a stumble is up to the save.

I agree that the Battlemaster is a good way to represent a more skilled user; actually inflicting the prone condition or disarming a foe, for example, but abstract description of HP loss can fill the blanks for "lesser" cases, as might be inflicted by a less skilled user.

[INDYSTAR188]

I agree that the Battlemaster is a good way to represent a more skilled user; actually inflicting the prone condition or disarming a foe, for example, but abstract description of HP loss can fill the blanks for "lesser" cases, as might be inflicted by a less skilled user.

To further my example, I would argue a BM with a lower save DC is more representative of a "lesser skilled" whip fighter. Having said that, I think what you're saying is valid, just less mechanically impactful for the player (and potentially less fun). I do encourage my players to describe their attacks and the damage, so I'm not trying to say you're way out-of-bounds.

[JellyPooga]

To further my example, I would argue a BM with a lower save DC is more representative of a "lesser skilled" whip fighter. Having said that, I think what you're saying is valid, just less mechanically impactful for the player (and potentially less fun). I do encourage my players to describe their attacks and the damage, so I'm not trying to say you're way out-of-bounds.

I totally agree. I just wish more people would use the abstract HP to its fullest; instead of describing every "hit" as a connecting one drawing blood, utilising more descriptive terms; a greatsword knocking someone off balance or winding an armoured opponent instead of opening up a gushing wound, or using a rapier to knock aside your opponents weapon to put him on the back foot, for example.

It's only the final blow that really counts, so up until that point there's a massive potential for alternative "hit" description. I think a lot of players forget that (including myself sometimes).

[JakOfAllTirades]

My character likes to use his whip for swinging, climbing, catching himself when falling, etc. I just use the Acrobatics skill for that stuff, and my GM likes the idea so much I occasionally get a point of Inspiration for one of my character's stunts.