Hybridization Funnel & Alchemist Bombs

[Jackofalltrades]

Hi Everyone. quick question, could a grenadier apply a mixture of say Alchemist fire/Acid (mixed with Hybridization Funnel) to a alchemist bomb since bombs count as a "weapon" with the Alchemical Weapon feature. if so a lv 1 Grenadier could do 3d6+int damage with a full round action.

[inuyasha]

I would say no to that, since bombs seem to be a very temporary weapon that can only be used by the alchemist, and I think the only way they should be used is if they are detonated, making attempts to tinker with them like this impossible.

[ShiningCrusader]

I would say no to that, since bombs seem to be a very temporary weapon that can only be used by the alchemist, and I think the only way they should be used is if they are detonated, making attempts to tinker with them like this impossible.

isn't it a move action to apply? he still would have his standard action to throw the bomb.

[exelsisxax]

The funnel does not work on potions, elixirs, extracts, or other materials. (y'know, like bombs)

But more importantly:

"Bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert"
"Using the vial requires 10 minutes and a DC 25 Craft (alchemy) check;"

It's a 10 minute method for deactivating a bomb.

[TheIronGolem]

Bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert

Using the vial requires 10 minutes and a DC 25Craft (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/craft)(alchemy) check
Unless you can find a way to create two bombs,put them through a process that normally takes 10 minutes, and still have a standard action left over to throw the resulting bomb, then nope.

It does sound like the kind of cool thematic ability you could create an archetype around, though.

[Jackofalltrades]

The funnel does not work on potions, elixirs, extracts, or other materials. (y'know, like bombs)

But more importantly:

"Bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert"
"Using the vial requires 10 minutes and a DC 25 Craft (alchemy) check;"

It's a 10 minute method for deactivating a bomb.


Unless you can find a way to create two bombs,put them through a process that normally takes 10 minutes, and still have a standard action left over to throw the resulting bomb, then nope.

It does sound like the kind of cool thematic ability you could create an archetype around, though.

no, i'm not combining bombs and then putting them on a weapon. what i plan to do is to combine a alchemist fire(1d6) with flask of acid(1d6) with the Hybridization Funnel into a flask of acidic fire (1d6fire/1d6 acid) in the morning. than when i use a bomb (counts as a weapon) use the grenadier alchemist Alchemical Weapon class feature (which lets you to apply stuff like alchemist fire on to a weapon). to apply acidic fire on the bomb. so (1d6+int bomb)+(1d6 alchemist fire/1d6 acid mixture). and then throw the upgraded bomb as my main weapon. i was just wondering if it was possible to do it.

[Coidzor]

no, i'm not combining bombs and then putting them on a weapon. what i plan to do is to combine a alchemist fire(1d6) with flask of acid(1d6) with the Hybridization Funnel into a flask of acidic fire (1d6fire/1d6 acid) in the morning. than when i use a bomb (counts as a weapon) use the grenadier alchemist Alchemical Weapon class feature (which lets you to apply stuff like alchemist fire on to a weapon). to apply acidic fire on the bomb. so (1d6+int bomb)+(1d6 alchemist fire/1d6 acid mixture). and then throw the upgraded bomb as my main weapon. i was just wondering if it was possible to do it.

If alchemist fire and acid both work individually and no language disallows acidic fire, then yeah, seems so.

Even without it, it's a pretty nice tool in one's arsenal to be able to chuck acidic fires around.

[Kallimakus]

I would imagine not, but I could be wrong. My reasoning is because of this "Drawing the components of, creating, and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity".
Before you take the standard action, you don't have the bomb as you haven't made it yet, and therefore can't apply the alchemical weapon. After the standard action, you don't have a bomb because you threw it.

[exelsisxax]

no, i'm not combining bombs and then putting them on a weapon. what i plan to do is to combine a alchemist fire(1d6) with flask of acid(1d6) with the Hybridization Funnel into a flask of acidic fire (1d6fire/1d6 acid) in the morning. than when i use a bomb (counts as a weapon) use the grenadier alchemist Alchemical Weapon class feature (which lets you to apply stuff like alchemist fire on to a weapon). to apply acidic fire on the bomb. so (1d6+int bomb)+(1d6 alchemist fire/1d6 acid mixture). and then throw the upgraded bomb as my main weapon. i was just wondering if it was possible to do it.
No, you cannot.

1. anything produced with a hybridization funnel becomes inert after an hour.
2. bombs are not weapons, and they don't count as ammunition either. you can't use that feature as you describe. They only count as a weapon as far as ray of enfeeblement does: for feats read as effecting specific weapons but are intended to benefit types of attacks as well.

edit: maybe i was thinking of alchemical admixture or something weird.

[Kallimakus]

EDIT: Apparently, I have epic double posting skills.

[ShiningCrusader]

No, you cannot.

1. anything produced with a hybridization funnel becomes inert after an hour.
2. bombs are not weapons, and they don't count as ammunition either. you can't use that feature as you describe. They only count as a weapon as far as ray of enfeeblement does: for feats read as effecting specific weapons but are intended to benefit types of attacks as well.

its actually lasts for 24 hours.

[CasualViking]

The OP asked the wrong question and chose the wrong headline, because it's not a question about Hybridization Funnel, it's about the Alchemical Weapon ability and whether it can be applied to bombs.

Personally, I agree with the argument that the bomb doesn't exist before the standard action and Alchemical Weapon can't be used because of timing issues.

[Coidzor]

Yeah, an Alchemist's Bombs are explicitly weapons, and so would be legal targets for Alchemical Weapon to modify them. It's getting into more depth into how actions and turns and rounds work to say whether the standard action of creating and attacking with a Bomb can happen concurrently with or be interrupted by a Move, Swift, or Free action. I honestly can't remember those particular mechanics well enough to say for certain.

Even without being able to use it with Alchemist's bombs, it seems like Hybridization Funnels and the Alchemical Weapon ability complement one another nicely, since it seems like one could condense 4 alchemical weapons into a single attack, which is nothing to sniff at.

Hoo, I just had a sick thought about using a Hybridization Funnel to make 3 of the same kind of hybrid substance and then putting it into a Focusing Flask (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/containers-bags-boxes-more#table-magic-containers) and then following up with Alchemical Weapon using a substance made with a Hybridization Funnel on top of that, condensing 8 alchemical weapons and a bunch of preparation into one attack.

[unseenmage]

Yeah, an Alchemist's Bombs are explicitly weapons, and so would be legal targets for Alchemical Weapon to modify them. It's getting into more depth into how actions and turns and rounds work to say whether the standard action of creating and attacking with a Bomb can happen concurrently with or be interrupted by a Move, Swift, or Free action. I honestly can't remember those particular mechanics well enough to say for certain.

Even without being able to use it with Alchemist's bombs, it seems like Hybridization Funnels and the Alchemical Weapon ability complement one another nicely, since it seems like one could condense 4 alchemical weapons into a single attack, which is nothing to sniff at.

Hoo, I just had a sick thought about using a Hybridization Funnel to make 3 of the same kind of hybrid substance and then putting it into a Focusing Flask (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/containers-bags-boxes-more#table-magic-containers) and then following up with Alchemical Weapon using a substance made with a Hybridization Funnel on top of that, condensing 8 alchemical weapons and a bunch of preparation into one attack.

This sounds awesome.

Make sure at least part of your amalgam is a Tanglefoot bag.
You could then Ion Tape it to a Grenade (both found in the Tech Guide) in advance, prime the Grenade, then throw the Tanglefoot amalgam.

The Tanglefoot is the weapon, the primed grenade is just along for the ride.

There're some other ideas I've been toying with in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?503619-PF-Combining-Mundane-Items). Will be adding this one to the mix. :smallbiggrin:

[Psyren]

Yeah, an Alchemist's Bombs are explicitly weapons, and so would be legal targets for Alchemical Weapon to modify them. It's getting into more depth into how actions and turns and rounds work to say whether the standard action of creating and attacking with a Bomb can happen concurrently with or be interrupted by a Move, Swift, or Free action. I honestly can't remember those particular mechanics well enough to say for certain.

I can help with that :smallsmile:

Swift and Free actions can (generally) be used during other actions. Relevant quotes:


Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.


You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action.

[Coidzor]

Alright, so we know this is definitely doable after hitting 6th level, which is pretty good even if it doesn't work with the move action method.

Nice. Thank you, Psyren.


This sounds awesome.

Make sure at least part of your amalgam is a Tanglefoot bag.
You could then Ion Tape it to a Grenade (both found in the Tech Guide) in advance, prime the Grenade, then throw the Tanglefoot amalgam.

The Tanglefoot is the weapon, the primed grenade is just along for the ride.

There're some other ideas I've been toying with in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?503619-PF-Combining-Mundane-Items). Will be adding this one to the mix. :smallbiggrin:

If it can be put into a hybridization funnel, you'd want to use a Tangleburn Bag, so you get a tanglefoot bag+alchemist fire before you even do any combining. Even if you can't Hybridization Funnel it, it's still 2 alchemical weapons in one, so one could still get the equivalent of 4 alchemical weapons in one go by using Alchemical Weapon to apply something that Hybridization Funnels can make.

The ion tape and grenade idea is pretty sweet though.

[unseenmage]

Crud, so both the Hybridization Funnel and the Focusing Flask specifically require splash weapons which Tanglefoot Bag is not.

Tangleburn Bags have a secndary effect that can deal damage in a splash area but from what I'm reading they still only count as a splash weapon with GM permission.

Combining things is still cool. Ion Taping combined things to a Grenade is still cool. You just won't get the Grenade to stick to the enemy so they can't throw it back.

Hmmmm, maybe Bone Paste would do the trick.
Edit: Nope, still not a splash item. :smallfrown:

[Coidzor]

Really, this is just making me long for an entangling splash weapon as part of the canon. The idea of webber and goober weapons, especially in sci-fi should have provided ample opportunity for that to enter in with the later addition of sci-fi and fantastical-tech-centric stuff.

[Firest Kathon]

Really, this is just making me long for an entangling splash weapon as part of the canon. The idea of webber and goober weapons, especially in sci-fi should have provided ample opportunity for that to enter in with the later addition of sci-fi and fantastical-tech-centric stuff.
Have a look at the Tanglefoot Bomb (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/tanglefoot-bomb-su) alchemist discovery.

[5ColouredWalker]

As for bombs not counting as Ammunition, I'd like to point you all to the Flask Thrower (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/flask-thrower), an exotic ranged weapon which can use bombs as ammunition. Don't ask me what it's default ammo as an Endless weapon is.

[Coidzor]

A thought occurs. Once you have Free Action Alchemical Weapon, how deep can that rabbit hole go? Can one condense a focusing flask with 3 Hybridization Funnel concoctions with another one and then throw it on a Tanglefoot Alchemist Bomb by using 2 free actions?

Hmm. It seems like there's no longer guidelines or examples for how many times one can use various free actions in a round.

[Psyren]

Hmm. It seems like there's no longer guidelines or examples for how many times one can use various free actions in a round.

They have the only guideline they ever needed - "Your GM can set limits."