Need Help Building a martial Bard (with a side step in to Paladin)

[Nosta]

SO I plan to build a Martial Bard with a little paladin (need some Grace lol) Paladin of freedom needed - For I am CG
I want to Be a bard who inspires her allies with the way she swings A sword, the sound of her hard steel on an enemies blade is like a song

so using Alt class features and what ever i needed to
I will have five Feats to pick out (from levels, Race, and flaws)

My character is about freedom and not being held down as she is trying to Escape the destinty her father has curved out for her

I am not sure what weapon she should use but i do know of snowflake wardance so i'm thinking of using an elven thin blade though not sure
i'm just not sure how to bring it all together

I Am going to take my first two levels in paladin (I'm only after Divine grace and will trade out the other stuff for anything that will fit better
Then the next three in bard, though i am not sure if i should do this in another way

[Darrin]

The gold standard for a martial bard is usually a Bardblade: Bard 4/Warblade 16 with Song of the White Raven and Dragonfire Inspiration. Add Dragontouched + Draconic Heritage to switch [fire] damage to [sonic] or whatever you prefer. Bardsader (Bard 4/Crusader 16) might even be a bit better, as Crusader has a bit more Cha synergy.

I've also seen "Bardadin" builds mentioned before, although nailing down what exactly goes into that isn't clear. Devoted Performer (Complete Adventurer) allows your bard/paladin levels to stack for smite evil damage and daily uses of bardic music, but that's actually a very limited list of abilities. There's two feats in Champions of Valor that offer a bit more: From Smite to Song allows you to convert unused Smite Evils into Inspire Courage, and Initiate of Milil allows your cleric and paladin levels to stack for getting new bardic music abilities.

If we use the basic Sorcadin as the model, then a Bardadin would probably look like:

Paladin 2/Bard 4/Abjurant Champion 4/Sublime Chord 2/Sacred Exorcist 8

Without Extra Music, that doesn't leave a lot of bardic music for Snowflake Wardance (SFW). However, I'm not really a big fan of SFW, so I don't really recommend it. It locks you into TWF or single blade style, and doesn't really help with bonus damage, which is where TWF needs the most help.

So... that being said... what exactly do you want this build to do? Do you want 9th level spells? Do you want Dragonfire Inspiration, and if so, *how* much of it do you want? (Note: 12d6 [sonic] damage on every attack made by the *entire party* will cause most DM's to blubber incoherently about the meaningless tatters of whatever is left of their campaign.) If you want a more melee-focused bard, then would you prefer something closer to a Bardblade/Bardsader?

[Nosta]

The gold standard for a martial bard is usually a Bardblade: Bard 4/Warblade 16 with Song of the White Raven and Dragonfire Inspiration. Add Dragontouched + Draconic Heritage to switch [fire] damage to [sonic] or whatever you prefer. Bardsader (Bard 4/Crusader 16) might even be a bit better, as Crusader has a bit more Cha synergy.

I've also seen "Bardadin" builds mentioned before, although nailing down what exactly goes into that isn't clear. Devoted Performer (Complete Adventurer) allows your bard/paladin levels to stack for smite evil damage and daily uses of bardic music, but that's actually a very limited list of abilities. There's two feats in Champions of Valor that offer a bit more: From Smite to Song allows you to convert unused Smite Evils into Inspire Courage, and Initiate of Milil allows your cleric and paladin levels to stack for getting new bardic music abilities.

If we use the basic Sorcadin as the model, then a Bardadin would probably look like:

Paladin 2/Bard 4/Abjurant Champion 4/Sublime Chord 2/Sacred Exorcist 8

Without Extra Music, that doesn't leave a lot of bardic music for Snowflake Wardance (SFW). However, I'm not really a big fan of SFW, so I don't really recommend it. It locks you into TWF or single blade style, and doesn't really help with bonus damage, which is where TWF needs the most help.

So... that being said... what exactly do you want this build to do? Do you want 9th level spells? Do you want Dragonfire Inspiration, and if so, *how* much of it do you want? (Note: 12d6 [sonic] damage on every attack made by the *entire party* will cause most DM's to blubber incoherently about the meaningless tatters of whatever is left of their campaign.) If you want a more melee-focused bard, then would you prefer something closer to a Bardblade/Bardsader?

Bardblade sounds good. I want to make use of snowflake wardance
I want this Bardblade to be good at melee and boosting her self and her friends

could you show me what a good Bardblade build look like using snowflake wardance?

[Darrin]

Bardblade sounds good. I want to make use of snowflake wardance
I want this Bardblade to be good at melee and boosting her self and her friends

could you show me what a good Bardblade build look like using snowflake wardance?

Bard + Crusader is better for buffing your allies. Warblade with a Tiger Claw/Diamond Mind focus is a bit stronger in melee on a more personal level, and can eventually get Time Stands Still (the "Capstone Maneuver" for most ToB/TWF builds), but is more likely to get the stinkeye from DM/players for hogging the spotlight.

Race: Silverbrow Human
1) Bard 1. Feat: TWF. Human: Dragonfire Inspiration.
2) Bard 2.
3) Paladin of Freedom 1. Feat: Snowflake Wardance.
4) Paladin of Freedom 2.
5) Bard 3.
6) Bard 4. Feat: Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting).
7) Crusader 1.
8) Crusader 2.
9) Crusader 3. Feat: Song of the White Raven.
10) Crusader 4.
11) Crusader 5.
12) Crusader 6. Feat: Improved TWF.
13) Crusader 7.
14) Crusader 8.
15) Crusader 9. Feat: Extra Music.
16) Crusader 10.
17) Crusader 11.
18) Crusader 12. Feat: Greater TWF.
19) Crusader 13.
20) Crusader 14.

Maneuvers:
Crusader 1: Crusader's Strike, Leading the Attack, Shield Block, Mountain Hammer, Tactical Strike, Bolstering Voice (Stance)
Crusader 2: Tactics of the Wolf (Stance)
Crusader 3: White Raven Tactics
Crusader 4: Lion's Roar (replacing Tactical Strike)
Crusader 5: Covering Strike
Crusader 7: Flanking Maneuver
Crusader 8: Press the Advantage (Stance), Rallying Strike (replacing Flanking Maneuver)
Crusader 9: Order Forged From Chaos
Crusader 10: Clarion Call (replacing Lion's Roar)
Crusader 11: Swarming Assault
Crusader 12: White Raven Hammer (replacing Swarming Assault)
Crusader 13: Greater Divine Surge
Crusader 14: Immortal Fortitude (stance), Strike of Righteous Vitality (replacing Greater Divine Surge)


You'll want to brush up on the Inspire Courage Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830). The build above doesn't have Words of Creation so it doesn't really crank things up to obscene levels, but you also don't have to worry about the DM clobbering you with alignment infractions for taking an [Exalted] feat.

There's a bit of disconnect with trying to use Snowflake Wardance (requires Perform: Dance) with Dragonfire Inspiration (requires singing or poetry), but most DM's don't notice or care which categories of Perform you put your skill ranks into. If you want to get really technical about it, the rules don't say that your highest perform category has to be singing (oddly enough, poetics isn't even listed in the skill section), just that he needs at least 3 ranks in Perform and has to use singing. If you want to get pedantic as well as technical, maxing out your Perform: Dance and then putting no ranks into Perform: Singing should still work by RAW, since you've satisfied the requirements for Inspire Courage and there's no penalty for singing untrained.

At lower levels, Inspire Courage will be... 1 (Bard levels) + 1 (Spell Compendium: inspirational boost) + 1 (Song of the Heart) + 1 (Magic Item Compendium: Badge of Valor) = 4d6 [fire] damage for you and all your allies.

You can squeeze out another +1 by playing a mandolin (Complete Adventurer p. 126), but this usually interferes with wielding weapons. You can add an instrument blade (Complete Scoundrel p. 110) to the neck, but it won't count for Snowflake Wardance (it's not a one-handed weapon).

As you get more Crusader levels and hopefully a Vest of Legends (16K GP, DMGII), you can get it up to 7d6. If you feel like making the DM cry, adding Words of Creation (BoED) can double this to 14d6.

You can switch [fire] to [sonic] by taking Dragontouched + Draconic Heritage (Emerald Dragon). Fire resistance/immunity is quite common, while resistance/immunity to sonic is exceedingly rare.

[John Longarrow]

Two other dips I'd recommend are Marshall (to add your cha bonus to something, often this is either a one level dip to boost everyone's dex for initiative or adding your cha twice to skills OR 3 levels so you can do both) and Dragon shaman for auras. The more buffs you can put up for the party the better!

[Troacctid]

There's also Memory Smith and Battle Howler of Gruumsh, both of which are full BAB and great for melee bards.

Snowflake Wardance is mostly a trap—the good melee bard builds generally use Strength because you deal more damage that way.