What's a bloodline actually worth?

[Luccan]

Considering you have to spend one to three levels on a "bloodline level" to gain all the bonuses, are bloodlines worth it? Is it more worth it for minor (1 level, by 12th character level), intermediate (2 levels, the first by 6th, the second by 12 character level), or major bloodlines (3 levels, the first by 3rd, then 6th, then 12th character level)? Is it drastically overpowered to give these to a PC for free? If so, is it only for major and/or intermediate bloodlines or for all three?
Link to the SRD page (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm)

I'd been thinking of possibly giving free bloodlines to classes with fewer/less useful class abilities (Originally I was going to give it sorcerer's so they had actual class abilities, though now I hesitate to give it to any casters). Looking at it again though, I'm not sure which strength is appropriate.

[barakaka]

Bloodlines are normally only worth it if you're planning on a bunch of dips. They increase the progression for certain class features faster that way than going straight in the base class. This leaves them open for lots of abuse.
There is the Titan Bloodline's 12th level ability which grants the capability of wielding a gargantuan hammer without penalty. This means the little pixie is going to be able to hit someone with a gargantuan hammer... without penalty. This makes all your PCs' anime dreams come true.
I don't think anyone other than Person Man is going to ever notice the Troll Bloodline's boost to natural healing, but when someone besides him realizes the potential that natural healing has, it's cause for alarm.


I don't really know anything about the others, because I use these sorts of tactics for making garbage base classes playable in a mid-highish optimization group. Be aware that they are practically designed for using with a single Prestige class or only 2 base classes with a Bloodline on a character.

If you have veterans in your playgroup, then watch out. If you have a bunch of noobs or peeps uninterested in making uber characters, then you can add Bloodlines to mundane characters, and that should be fine. Casters after level 7 don't need the help.

If your casters are falling behind (highly unlikely) then give them a couple of scrolls of spells higher level than they are. That'll give them the feeling that they have a nuke to launch when the time is right.

[Nifft]

IMHO what a Bloodline is not worth is the inevitable rules debate about what the heck the damn thing even does.

[Stayingpower]

There is the Titan Bloodline's 12th level ability which grants the capability of wielding a gargantuan hammer without penalty. This means the little pixie is going to be able to hit someone with a gargantuan hammer... without penalty. This makes all your PCs' anime dreams come true.
I disagree with that interpretation.

MM1 was written before CW, which has an Epic-level feat Wield Oversized Weapon, which only allows you to use a weapon 1 category bigger than you can do w/o penality (like Monkey Grip, but w/p penality).
Titans' are epic level (25HD). The ability is just poorly worded...



IMHO what a Bloodline is not worth is the inevitable rules debate about what the heck the damn thing even does.
The most frequent rule I saw is: "when you would get enough XP for a new level corresponding to the bloodline threshold (3rd, 6th and 12th), you instead go back to the XP you had a level earlier". Meaning, when you reach level 3, 6 or 12, you go back to 2, 5 or 11 and continue as nothing happened.


For OP, they are a nice little bonus that may add to a character story or attachment to his/her character. Not a big deal.
Be careful tho if you have "jealous" players around the table. Sometimes, even small bonuses are not well perceived by others. Know your team!

[Cruiser1]

Bloodlines can be free! If you know (or even expect) that a game isn't progressing beyond a certain level, then you might as well take a bloodline that doesn't require any levels before that limit. For example, in an E6 game, there's zero reason for a character to not take a minor bloodline (or even all possible minor bloodlines at once) because you'll never reach level 12 and therefore never have to deal with taking a bloodline level or having an XP penalty. When designing NPC's, if they're low enough level, slap on bloodlines because they won't be gaining XP.

Bloodlines can be free feats! Arcane casters usually have the Alertness feat from a familiar. Many bloodlines give Alertness as a bonus feat. Bloodlines say that if you already have a feat that it tries to give you, then you can take any other feat. Therefore bloodlines may appeal to casters more, since you often get a free bonus feat of your choice instead of just the feat listed.

[javcs]

Since the OP is planning on giving them out for free, that sidesteps the whole "what does a bloodline level improve and what doesn't it improve" debate. I'd probably just say screw it and call it +1 effective class level, ala the Legacy Champion PRC, for base classes only, but all of the base classes that you have levels in. That lets you dip for prereqs more easily and do early entry better, but it's less complicated than any other way of handling bloodline levels. And to really take advantage of it, you'd need to frontload your progression with bloodline levels, and take them real early.



I'm not entirely sure I'd bother giving a bloodline to sorcerers for free, as they don't really need it, although I'd not argue about it if you did, and might instead suggest giving them wizard-like bonus feats, or both, really. Most bloodlines abilities don't provide a major benefit to casters, unless you picked one that gave a +1 to your casting stat. Most of the other bloodline abilities would be of little value to most casters, although, again, if you picked one that gave the right bonus feat, one might be able to meet PRC prereqs a little easier, or get an unrestricted bonus feat.

I'd say give the T4 and T5 classes free advancement in a major bloodline while taking a T4 or T5 base class (or associated PRC), but not T3, T2, or T1 classes. I suppose T3s could get a free moderate bloodline (or advance the T4/5 major bloodline every other level). T2 and T1 classes don't really need the help, not that most of them would get all that much from a bloodline anyways.

[KillingAScarab]

First, to those confused on bloodlines, read Welknair's Bloodline Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?208703-3-5e-Bloodline-Guide-What-in-the-Nine-Hells-is-a-Bloodline&p=11487854).

Second, I thought the rules for bloodlines suggest that if you are in a game where every character has a bloodline, you can make them free, but that may be a houserule, similar to removing the level adjustment associated with aquatic characters in an aquatic game. Ideally, every player character has the same strength of bloodline (minor, intermediate or major) but there are also the Random Bloodline Determination tables you can roll on which might give different strengths if used. I would suggest just having all characters roll on the same bloodline strength table.

Finally, after you have read Welknair's Bloodline Guide, you will realize that many of the pre-created bloodlines are not powerful enough for players to be interested in them. You might instead be interested in some of the bloodlines Welknair homebrewed, or in making them yourself, the rules for which are even in the SRD. The problems were largely in the 10 special abilities given to the major bloodlines (intermediate bloodlines get the first 5 of those, minor only get the first 2 of those). Fixing the existing bloodlines is as easy as swapping the special abilities.


The real meat and potatoes of the bloodline is the Special Abilities. These can be about anything. Bonus feats are easy choices, but it's much better to go with things along the lines of Class Features. Level based abilities should scale differently depending upon the magnitude of the bloodline (If you'd normally gain access to Augments as an Ozodrin of 1/2 your level when you have a Major Bloodline, it's as an Ozodrin of 1/4 your level for an Intermediate Bloodline or 1/8 for a Minor). This will likely differ depending upon how you choose to balance things. And really doesn't matter if you're not basing the bloodline off of a class, as I've done a couple of times.
...
4. Make the Special Abilities. These should be powerful enough to be useful, but not to the point of overshadowing the character's class. They should be flavorful and fitting given the bloodline in question. Don't forget the fluff for each.