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mistermysterio
2016-11-16, 06:39 PM
So... have a campaign with a party at level 11. Most everyone has their place, but we have a martial initiator (warlord) and a standard fighter. The fighter feels outclassed by the fighter... especially with maneuvers like raging hunter pounce, which allows the warlord to full attack after charging.

What are the simplest ways for the fighter to gain access to pounce. Are there any? Outside of taking an archetype? Quick runner's shirt was nerfed... so looking for ways for the fighter to feel more viable. If the fighter and the warlord both take full attacks, the fighter will likely have the higher overall damage, but the warlord has a lot more utility (with counters and ways to heal, ways to gain flight, ranged melee attacks, etc.)

Thanks

Manyasone
2016-11-16, 06:44 PM
Well, If 3.5 material is allowed people will fling spirit lion totem barbarian at your head. If Spheres of Power is allowed, alteration Sphere talent Bestial reflexes I believe can grant you pounce. There is also a psionic power that gives this. But the easiest way is for your fighter to take the myrmidon Archetype, then he also becomes an initiator. And he can choose disciplines the warlord does not have access to

AmericanCheese
2016-11-16, 06:46 PM
The Dimensional Dervish line of feats perhaps? It requires Dimension Door, but you could get that somehow! But really, a fighter next to a Warlord is a really difficult thing because 8 times out of 10, the Warlord will out perform the fighter. The Fighter can only do better if the Warlord is focusing on buffing or something else.

Ualaa
2016-11-16, 06:51 PM
Path of War, and Core Pathfinder, are not an even footing.
A non-PoW melee is going to lag way behind in melee combat power.

The fighter has a lot of bonus feats.
Investing in Martial Training, will allow for some Path of War maneuvers or stances.
The DM may be willing to retroactively assume the Fighter has taken a few.

If you have Path of War (Expanded), a Fighter can take the archetype 'Myrmidon' which gets them PoW stances/maneuvers in the place of bonus feats.

If you're using Spheres of Power, a caster with access to the 'Alteration' sphere and specifically the 'Bestial Reflexes' talent can grant Pounce (or Lunge with natural weapons, Leaping Attack, and Trample). If they're 10th caster level, they can take Permanent Transformation. The alteration could be based on 'Blank Form', so aside from these/other secondary traits, the base form does not change.

AvatarVecna
2016-11-16, 07:02 PM
So... have a campaign with a party at level 11. Most everyone has their place, but we have a martial initiator (warlord) and a standard fighter. The fighter feels outclassed by the fighter... especially with maneuvers like raging hunter pounce, which allows the warlord to full attack after charging.

What are the simplest ways for the fighter to gain access to pounce. Are there any? Outside of taking an archetype? Quick runner's shirt was nerfed... so looking for ways for the fighter to feel more viable. If the fighter and the warlord both take full attacks, the fighter will likely have the higher overall damage, but the warlord has a lot more utility (with counters and ways to heal, ways to gain flight, ranged melee attacks, etc.)

Thanks

Before anything else, I say this: your Fighter is never gonna be anything other than "guy who hits things with a stick". The utility the Warlord I don't think a Fighter can really match even with archetype-stacking. The ability to combine multiple attacks with movement will not change that. Moving on: my recollection is that Pathfinder hates the idea of full attacking on a move even more than 3.5 does. I'm not as familiar with PF as I am with 3.5, but here's a few methods I know of combining movement with full attacks (or 'full' attacks) that could potentially be available to you:

1) There is a Rage Power available to Barbarian 10s called "Greater Beast Totem" (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo---rage-powers/beast-totem-greater-su), which (among other things) allows a raging Barbarian to Pounce, making a full attack at the end of a charge; it requires the Beast Totem rage power. A Fighter (Viking (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/viking)) poaches Rage and Rage Powers from the Barbarian. That said, a Viking counts as 3 levels lower for the purposes of determining effective barbarian level as far as pre-reqs go, and you can only pick up Rage Powers using Fighter Bonus Feats (or, if your DM isn't being an ass about it, via the Extra Rage Power feat), so the earliest you could have access to this Rage Power is 14th lvl (or 13th if your DM isn't mean). This ability is only active while you're raging, though, and even then only when you're charging (which has other issues that have been discussed many times in many forums).

2) There is a Fighter arhcetype called the Mobile Fighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/mobile-fighter). The ability you want is "Whirlwind Blitz", which allows you to make a full attack as a standard action...as your capstone, replacing Weapon Mastery. The ability you have is "Rapid Attack", which allows you to combine a full attack with a move, in exchange for giving up your first iterative, which isn't great but is better than nothing.

3) Mounted Skirmisher (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/mounted-skirmisher-combat) allows you to make a full attack while mounted as long as your mount didn't move more than their speed (such as by moving twice their speed on a charge). My recollection from when I made a theoretical DPR build that combined the Weapon Focus+TWF+Mounted Combat feat trees is that there's debate on whether RAW/RAI of this feat allows you to do the normal mounted schtick of "charge for massive damage" with a full attack. I think this feat does and should allow you to make a full attack on a mounted charge as long as you don't charge further than your mount's movement rate, but then, I think Fighters should have nice things.

I think there's a Rogue archetype that does nice stuff for a charging Rogue, but it's been awhile since I was looking over tons of PF stuff.