Gestalt with psionics

[Jack_McSnatch]

In an upcoming game our DM has decided to gestalt us, but one of the classes must be psionic. I already had a duskblade 13/spellthief 7 build ready, and I can still use it, but now I have to add a psychic class to the mix. I have little experience with psionics, but I'very narrowed it down to either psychic warrior, or lurk.

I'd like advice on which one would be better, and how to shoehorn it into my build. I like the lurk's sneak attack abilities, and it meshes with what I want to do (a gishy rogue), but I hate their power list. Psychic warrior has nice powers, but I don't need that many feats.

[Draconium]

Have you heard of the Psychic Rogue (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b)? It sounds like it'd be right up your alley for this character.

[AnachroNinja]

I know you have your two preferences already, but you might want to consider a psion. The lack of spell failure makes it an excellent blend with a melee class, greatly expanding your utility. Even just basic powers like vigor are massive. Just a thought.

[PacMan2247]

I know you have your two preferences already, but you might want to consider a psion. The lack of spell failure makes it an excellent blend with a melee class, greatly expanding your utility. Even just basic powers like vigor are massive. Just a thought.

Seconded. Ardent is also a useful class, but is WIS-based, so MAD may start being an issue for you.

[Nifft]

Duskblade // Soulknife isn't entirely terrible.

Soulknife (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/soulknife.htm) gives d10 HD and 4 skill points/level with a good list, and it patches your one bad save, and it's the #1 class for pretending you have a Lightsaber at level 1.

After a few levels of that, you can go into War Mind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm). It would be rather fun to apply Sweeping Strike to a spell-charged attack.

---

Alternately, if your DM is amenable to using homebrew material, suggest looking into the Kleptologue class in my sig -- it's a Psionic Spellthief.

[Kantolin]

I would personally go with Psychic Warrior over Lurk for a physical focused build.

Lurk is nifty and I love it, but most of Lurk's schticks happen over one swing. That said, Lurks will give you more sneak attack with which to steal spells, so if your goal is to do spell stealing Lurk becomes better.

Psychic Warrior, now, has a pile of 'useful physical buffing powers' that help your duskblade side, some of which mix very neatly with full attack channeling. If you don't need the extra feats for power, you can spend them on flexibility, getting more psionic focii, getting a psicrystal, snagging more powers, yadda. Psywars also do get chameleon and some tactical teleports, which are helpful if you're interested in the sneaky side of life.

Psion is more powerful than the two, but psion also is more of a wizard addition - if your goal is to be a beatstick, the psychic warrior power list is actually very good for the job despite its lower overall power.

[Jack_McSnatch]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Psion is a little more power heavy than I wanted, plus we already have one. I like the look of the psychic rogue, and of that kleptologue class, but I don't think the dm will let me do homebrew.

Soulknife did seem like an interesting idea, especially the acf where I trade psychic strike for bonus feats. I haven't looked at warmind, but I'll go check it out. Are there any tricks I should know about psionics that'll make me more effective?

[digiman619]

For the love of everything that's holy, use the Pathfinder Soulknife (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife) from Dreamscarred Press. It's a fun and viable class rather than the "Bard who traded all its class features for a magic weapon that doesn't scale properly and bonus damage that's half as strong as an equal level rouge's sneak attack, but that can only apply to one attack every other round or so" that the original was.

[The Glyphstone]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Psion is a little more power heavy than I wanted, plus we already have one. I like the look of the psychic rogue, and of that kleptologue class, but I don't think the dm will let me do homebrew.

Soulknife did seem like an interesting idea, especially the acf where I trade psychic strike for bonus feats. I haven't looked at warmind, but I'll go check it out. Are there any tricks I should know about psionics that'll make me more effective?

Don't be afraid to double up on psions. Like Sorcerers, their very limited Powers Known pool (barring Psychic Reformation abuse cheese) means they can only do a few things. So even if you have another psion, you're unlikely to overlap or make each other redundant unless you pick the same Discipline. As a Duskblade/Spellthief, you'd have great synergy with the Psychometabolism discipline without ever stepping on the other psion's toes since most of your powers will be Self-only buffs that you can usually cast pre-combat.

[Ualaa]

Each specialization of Psion plays rather differently.
More so, with Ultimate Psionics (the Pathfinder version), than the old 3.x stuff.
Each specialty was given specific bonuses at 2nd, 8th, 14th etc..

But still, each specialty is really it's own flavor.
There are quite a few flavorful discipline specific powers, that members of this discipline have and that the others need to burn an Expanded Knowledge feat to obtain -- and therefore won't have many, and even if they have a few, they'll be choosing from all disciplines, not taking a lot from one otherwise they'd be playing that type already.

[daremetoidareyo]

Isn't there a psithief in the archive? You could use that and an ardent dip with magic mantle....

[Jack_McSnatch]

Well, psychic warrior seems like my best bet. I tried to convince the dm to let me do the mind blade feats, from the SRD but he doesn't want to allow homebrew. (Are those homebrew or was that a dragon magazine thing?)

Anyway, now I'd like to ask about roleplaying a psionic person. From everything I've read, they're all supposed to be esoteric and enlightened, but well... That isn't the character. He's a reckless, hotheaded thrill seeker who can't ignore people suffering. He's the kind of person who'd take a bullet for a complete stranger. His personality doesn't really scream "psychic" to me. Apparently soulknives are an exception to the other psionic classes, but... Soulknife sucks. (and no, he won't let me use the Pathfinder soulknife either.)

[ExLibrisMortis]

Anyway, now I'd like to ask about roleplaying a psionic person. From everything I've read, they're all supposed to be esoteric and enlightened, but well... That isn't the character. He's a reckless, hotheaded thrill seeker who can't ignore people suffering. He's the kind of person who'd take a bullet for a complete stranger. His personality doesn't really scream "psychic" to me. Apparently soulknives are an exception to the other psionic classes, but... Soulknife sucks. (and no, he won't let me use the Pathfinder soulknife either.)
Psionic characters have innate magic (they do not manipulate external forces, like arcane casters) through great mental force and practice. Like sorcerers and wizards, they can be quite different in how that is executed. Your character sounds like an ardent or wilder, no problem (or divine mind, but they... wait for it... suck!). Have a look at their fluff and adapt the psywar fluff to suit.

[Nifft]

Well, psychic warrior seems like my best bet. I tried to convince the dm to let me do the mind blade feats, from the SRD but he doesn't want to allow homebrew. (Are those homebrew or was that a dragon magazine thing?) I did a Mindblade feat tree homebrew, but maybe Dragon also did one.

Psychic Warrior is great. If you take the Claw powers, you can play it as a person with an inner Beast which you draw upon to fuel your powers. As you gain levels, you get more in tune with your Beast (or you just plain mentally over-power your Beast).

In terms of getting Mindblade perks without taking the horrible Soulknife base class, ask your DM about the official WotC Dark Sun 3.5e material. There's a Soulknife PrC which gives you a very nice Mindblade in just 10 levels, and advances your manifesting.


Anyway, now I'd like to ask about roleplaying a psionic person. From everything I've read, they're all supposed to be esoteric and enlightened, but well... That isn't the character. He's a reckless, hotheaded thrill seeker who can't ignore people suffering. He's the kind of person who'd take a bullet for a complete stranger. His personality doesn't really scream "psychic" to me. Apparently soulknives are an exception to the other psionic classes, but... Soulknife sucks. (and no, he won't let me use the Pathfinder soulknife either.)
Psions are as enlightened as Wizards are subtle.

Which is to say: some probably are, but it's not required, and lots upon lots are not.

[The Glyphstone]

There is no set personality at all for a psionic character, so you're good. Their mental scores will matter, like any other character - a Psion is likely to be smart, because they'll have a high Int score, but they're not necessarily esoteric or enlightened. An Ardent or Psychic Warrior will have an above-average Wisdom score, so they're going to be fairly sensible and/or perceptive. A Wilder will have a more commanding personality due to their high Charisma.

[Jack_McSnatch]

Okay, so prestige soulknife is go, and I'm figuring out psychic warrior powers, there's just one last mechanical problem I forgot to mention. The weapon of legacy. This thing is mildly annoying. We aren't taking penalties, but we're supposed to build them ourselves. I stole some abilities from the pre existing soulknife WoL, bit in this case it's a metamagic rod. Functions as a +1 light mace made of deep crystal, unless you have a mind blade, then it's a mind blade. I'm working on a couple extra abilities, (though I guess this part belongs in the homebrew thread) which are;

Material Harmonics: Your mind blade can replicate the properties of any material it has come in contact with. 1 lbs of material must be sacrificed. Deep crystal is automatically an option. The blade can only replicate one material at a time.

And the level 20 cap ability,

Arcane Resonance: Whenever you use the rod to apply metamagic to a spell, you may manifest a power of equal or lower level to the unmodified spell as a swift action. You must spend power points, and can augment the power as normal.

The rod has 3 metamagic abilities that can each be used 3 times a day, but I'm more than likely going to use multiple metamagic powers when I do use them. Is there another ability that could represent magic and psionics resonating? Should these powers have a daily cap?

[Nifft]

Suggestions:

Mindblade Gauntlet (MIC, p. 117) - give your Mindblade more abilities.

You should be able to use a Gauntlet as your Legacy item -- there are less weapon-like items in the WoL sourcebook, including a trumpet, a holy symbol, a pair of gloves, a necklace, and a chain shirt.

Specific abilities:
- Bane
- Holy
- METALLINE (MIC, p.38) - does what you want in terms of beating DR, but in a more rules-compliant way.


Doomdrinker (1/3/5 per day) - When you slay a foe with a melee weapon attack, you can activate this ability as a free action. Regain lost hit points or power points equal to the slain foe's HD.


Doomsight (+1/+3/+5) - Continuous insight bonus to AC and attacks.

[Zaq]

Isn't there a psithief in the archive? You could use that and an ardent dip with magic mantle....

The only Psithief I know of (at least with any strongly meaningful rules text) is the feat in Complete Scoundrel, which grants a Spellthief (who has to have manifesting from somewhere else) the ability to steal power points from a target, but it doesn't let you actually steal powers, which is annoying.

There's a sidebar in Complete Adventurer about turning a Spellthief into a "Psithief," basically saying that they can steal powers but that they can't steal or affect spells, but it's not even as well fleshed out as the Unarmed Swordsage, since it doesn't talk about if a stolen spell drains PP from the target, it doesn't talk about whether this psithief gets psionic powers or if they still get spells, and so on. That same sidebar does have a single sentence saying that the GM can choose to let a normal Spellthief steal powers without losing their ability to steal spells, and I'm totally in favor of that sort of thing, but it does boil down to pretty much a single sentence without a lot of explanation.

If anyone knows of a more fleshed-out Psithief anywhere in the official material (other than the Psychic Rogue), I'd be interested in hearing about it.

[gadren]

Honestly, if you are gestalting into psionics, then spell-to-power erudite is by far the best option. You can potentially learn any spell or power in the game, suffer no ASF for it, and can choose a class on the other "side" that covers your roguish or fighty desires.

[daremetoidareyo]

The only Psithief I know of (at least with any strongly meaningful rules text) is the feat in Complete Scoundrel, which grants a Spellthief (who has to have manifesting from somewhere else) the ability to steal power points from a target, but it doesn't let you actually steal powers, which is annoying.

There's a sidebar in Complete Adventurer about turning a Spellthief into a "Psithief," basically saying that they can steal powers but that they can't steal or affect spells, but it's not even as well fleshed out as the Unarmed Swordsage, since it doesn't talk about if a stolen spell drains PP from the target, it doesn't talk about whether this psithief gets psionic powers or if they still get spells, and so on. That same sidebar does have a single sentence saying that the GM can choose to let a normal Spellthief steal powers without losing their ability to steal spells, and I'm totally in favor of that sort of thing, but it does boil down to pretty much a single sentence without a lot of explanation.

If anyone knows of a more fleshed-out Psithief anywhere in the official material (other than the Psychic Rogue), I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Maybe magic mantle ardent dip could make it work?

[Zanos]

Don't be afraid to double up on psions. Like Sorcerers, their very limited Powers Known pool (barring Psychic Reformation abuse cheese) means they can only do a few things. So even if you have another psion, you're unlikely to overlap or make each other redundant unless you pick the same Discipline. As a Duskblade/Spellthief, you'd have great synergy with the Psychometabolism discipline without ever stepping on the other psion's toes since most of your powers will be Self-only buffs that you can usually cast pre-combat.
At higher levels it becomes kind of redundant. Outside discipline powers, there's really only a bare handful of good psionic powers past level 5 or so.