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Cluedrew
2016-11-16, 08:40 PM
GM: The grim reaper attacks P1 for 12 damage.
P2: How far are you from death?
P1: 5 feet or so.

I bring this up not because it is funny (maybe a little) but because if the grim reaper attacked someone in melee, I think we all know what weapon it would have used: a scythe.

It isn't hard to come with weapons and armour for a lot of different death/grim reaper themed warriors. Bone armour works out of the box. You can fiddle with the scythe to get other types of melee weapons, sometimes add chains. You have necromancy, killing magic and all sort of phantasmal magic for casters. You can even use carrion feeders for living pets (and the world of the dead is also open).

But I have been unable to think of a single ranged weapon that seems to fit the theme. I suppose you could throw a scythe but that is only go so far. ... OK my new best idea is boomerang scythe. Or sniper rifle if you want to go modern. But I don't, I would rather something not even cutting edged in the medieval ages, because death is ancient.

Any ideas?

CharonsHelper
2016-11-16, 08:43 PM
A bunch of chakrams.

ComradeBear
2016-11-16, 08:43 PM
Reaper uses shotguns.
https://boost-rankedboost.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Reaper-Counters.png

Oh... not that Reaper?
.....

Dude probably chucks his scythe like a giant ridiculous boomerang because physics can suck it.

Esprit15
2016-11-16, 08:45 PM
Reaper uses shotguns.
https://boost-rankedboost.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Reaper-Counters.png

Oh... not that Reaper?
.....

Dude probably chucks his scythe like a giant ridiculous boomerang because physics can suck it.

Or has chain wrapped around it to pull it back.

Kyberwulf
2016-11-16, 08:58 PM
I always figured Reaper would just use magic as a ranged weapon.

Reaver25
2016-11-16, 09:26 PM
Skulls? Balls of skulls? Undead skulls? Undead heads? zombie heads? heads? HEADS AND SKULLS?!?!

But on the reals, you could have a bone crossbow which shoots bones of various sizes. Or a bow that appears when you "pull it back," think Nightwolf from Mortal Combat. It could shoot purple or green energy.

Blackhawk748
2016-11-16, 09:30 PM
Kamas obviously. They're like mini scythes, but conveniently located on chains for chucking.

Mith
2016-11-16, 09:36 PM
I figured that the idea was that you couldn't outrun Death, so it didn't move after you so much as teleport within 5' of you and then hit you with a scythe.

Prime32
2016-11-16, 09:36 PM
Probably just swings the scythe in the direction of his target and they get cut.

If we were modernising it he'd just run people over with a combine harvester anyway.

Grod_The_Giant
2016-11-16, 09:44 PM
I figured that the idea was that you couldn't outrun Death, so it didn't move after you so much as teleport within 5' of you and then hit you with a scythe.
He doesn't even teleport; he's just there, no matter what you do to escape. You can run and run and run and just when you finally think you've lost him... NICE DAY FOR A JOG, ISN'T IT?

I've seen the cowboy-of-death thing a few times (the Saint of Killers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_of_Killers) might be one of the more prominent examples, though I despise Preacher). That fits a more modern ranged grim reaper, perhaps, though I admit that it doesn't really answer your question.

RedMage125
2016-11-16, 09:57 PM
Small Scythes

https://retrogamerevue.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/retroarch-0713-0239481.png

Tohron
2016-11-17, 12:13 AM
I like the idea of teleporting right behind a foe and then hitting them in melee with the scythe. Seems thematically appropriate.

Kitten Champion
2016-11-17, 03:04 AM
Chains that fly out of its body and attempt to catch, restrain, and reel in its target for a deliberate execution. Its victim is trapped, but aware, and flailing helplessly in cold terror of the inevitable.

It works thematically I think, and makes for a possibly unnerving sound-image to have Death accompanied by the rattling of chains.

Martin Greywolf
2016-11-17, 05:47 AM
He can launch fingertip-bones to pierce your chest.

Ethereal or skeletal vultures/raven/carrion appropriate for the setting that fly out of the folds of his robe.

Gaze - he looks you in the eye, you drop dead.

Bow (bone as body, sinews for string) or crossbow (same, but with a skull ornament at the "muzzle"), it shoots arrows that mournfully wail as they fly (you can do this even with real arrows, to a degree).

That said, grim reaper in real life folklore isn't supposed to have a weapon in the first place. That scythe isn't a weapon, it's an agricultural tool (and is horrible as a weapon, you need to modify it somewhat to even make it able to withstand hitting unarmored human repeatedly). It's supposed to tell you that you have about as much of a chance to get away from him as a piece of wheat has to escape harvest. Granted, for royalty, he brings out the sword, but even that isn't a weapon, it's an executioner's sword (again, a bad, bad weapon), and meant to show a degree of respect to his harvest.

Vinyadan
2016-11-17, 05:51 AM
A bow, see image.
http://www.electrummagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Triumph-of-Death.jpg



That said, grim reaper in real life folklore isn't supposed to have a weapon in the first place. That scythe isn't a weapon, it's an agricultural tool (and is horrible as a weapon, you need to modify it somewhat to even make it able to withstand hitting unarmored human repeatedly). It's supposed to tell you that you have about as much of a chance to get away from him as a piece of wheat has to escape harvest. Granted, for royalty, he brings out the sword, but even that isn't a weapon, it's an executioner's sword (again, a bad, bad weapon), and meant to show a degree of respect to his harvest.

You don't harvest wheat with a scythe, you harvest wheat with a sickle and cut grass with a scythe. So it's actually worse, because grains are transformed and given to humans, but grass is for animals. So what I read is "Death has as much respect for the single man as a man cutting grass for the single blade of grass."

Lord Haart
2016-11-17, 05:52 AM
Patience.



A Reaper-themed mortal/ex-mortal/mortal-level guy, though? I'd go for whatever age-appropriate weapon combines precision and hard to notice projectiles (without losing lethality, of course), to give as much as possible of the "John ran away, then John was a corpse" vibe; so (depending on timeframe/culture) either handguns, shuriken/throwing knives (have to be good with them, though) or hand crossbow(s).

Cluedrew
2016-11-17, 07:48 AM
Well, I was not expecting this level of response. So I'm going to skip quoting and if I say something related to your post it is probably in reply to it and a couple of others.

So a bit of context: This is actually for the "death themed warriors" I mentioned and not the reaper itself. The grim reaper (in this particular universe) does stick to the harvesting tools which are not weapons, but you can't die from death. Instead death has a group of mortal assassin / warrior / executioners that come for you if you try to live too long.

I already have a bunch of melee warriors, at least one spell caster (they can all kind of break reality) and ideals for a couple of others belonging to other archetypes. I think I will add some sort of teleporter. But I don't have a ranger and none of weapons I could think of quite fit that long ranged archetype.

A medium ranged one with throwing weapons could also work, but it doesn't why fill the hole I was looking for. Might work for a different character though, maybe as a side weapon to a melee warrior or a more sneaky character.

A bow might work, but I haven't figured out how to give it the proper theming without making it... comical I guess. A crossbow with metal arms (scythe-like) was the best I had for that.

Thanks everyone for your input.

NecroDancer
2016-11-17, 12:31 PM
Trust me when I say nothing is more terrifying than being chased by a combine harvester

Berenger
2016-11-17, 01:24 PM
A bow or crossbow with poisoned arrows or bolts. The poison can't be cured by mortal means, but doesn't kill the victim instantly. Instead, the victim has a few days to a) moan and despair or b) make his peace and put his affairs in order.




A bow might work, but I haven't figured out how to give it the proper theming without making it... comical I guess. A crossbow with metal arms (scythe-like) was the best I had for that.

Honestly, I don't think I get your problem. Regular, actual bows and crossbows were often crafted from animal bone and bone glue and had hair or sinew for strings. I don't consider them comical. Personally, I'd go with a renaissance style hunting crossbow with a shaft crafted from a single bone or crafted from dark wood with polished bone inlays with carvings that display a hunting scene, a danse macabre, skulls or similar death motifs. Speaking of the danse macabre, I hope this death-squad has a bard, yes?

https://abload.de/img/2008bu3642riuse.jpg

https://abload.de/img/a0391831a3e3d29be601cjhuup.jpg

TheFamilarRaven
2016-11-17, 02:34 PM
A bow, see image.
http://www.electrummagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Triumph-of-Death.jpg


Am I the only one who sees this as just a bunch of people freaking out that some jolly skeleton is riding through the crowd? I mean, I can't even make out whether an arrow struck anyone. Death just looks like he's waving his hand saying "hello folks! Nice party ya got here. Mind if I ride through?"

On a 2nd look I thought that maybe the table was soaked in blood from an arrow wound. Nope. Just a women in a red dress.

On a third look I finally saw the arrows that impaled people. Took me awhile 'cause they're not in a location I'd expect from the way the bow is facing... Still, the grim reaper looks pretty cheery, like "Hey folks, don't worry 'bout me or those people I shot! They were *******s anyway!"

veti
2016-11-17, 03:08 PM
Yeah, Death is everywhere. There is no such thing as "range" to him.

NO FURTHER THAN THE THICKNESS OF A SHADOW, said Death. WHERE THE FIRST PRIMAL CELL WAS, THERE WAS I ALSO. WHERE MAN IS, THERE AM I. WHEN THE LAST LIFE CRAWLS UNDER FREEZING STARS, THERE WILL I BE.

“Ah,” said Lezek, “you get about a bit, then.”
For a Reaper-themed order of warriors, I expect they would have unexpected levels of resources devoted to closing the distance between themselves and their target. ("Enemy" isn't really appropriate.) They would have (whatever the equivalent in your setting is) of all manner of equipment for climbing, tunnelling, flying, running (tirelessly), plane shifting, anti-magic shells - whatever it takes to close that distance, at least a couple of these guys will have it in their utility belts.

Ranged weapons? would be a cop-out. They're not assassins.

Martin Greywolf
2016-11-18, 05:36 AM
You don't harvest wheat with a scythe, you harvest wheat with a sickle and cut grass with a scythe. So it's actually worse, because grains are transformed and given to humans, but grass is for animals.

Nnnnope. While sickle was used during most of the human history, scythe, appearing around 500 AD and spreading during 12th century, was definitely used for grains. The shift from mostly sickle to mostly scythe happened around 16th century (based on pictorial evidence, it may have happened a lot sooner), by the 18th century, you have grain cradles added to them.

Long story short, any painting of grim reaper in proper perspective was done when scythes were used to harvest grain.

Stealth Marmot
2016-11-18, 07:04 AM
http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2015-12-27

Sniper rifle apparently.

Cluedrew
2016-11-18, 08:09 AM
A bow or crossbow with poisoned arrows or bolts. The poison can't be cured by mortal means, but doesn't kill the victim instantly. Instead, the victim has a few days to a) moan and despair or b) make his peace and put his affairs in order.They have a poison actually, it is a black powder causes a completely painless death. Powdered death if you will.


Honestly, I don't think I get your problem. Regular, actual bows and crossbows were often crafted from animal bone and bone glue and had hair or sinew for strings. I don't consider them comical.Perhaps comical wasn't the right word. But they have a tendency to be... understated? I have wondered about cranking it up at times but for now it works. Anyways something where the wood is just replaced with bone would work. "Why is it painted white?" "Its not painted."


Speaking of the danse macabre, I hope this death-squad has a bard, yes?Um... err... ezzerbarr... I'll look into that. Any further input?


To veti: The omnipresence of death is probably something I should do more with. I think for the baseline they probably to do that type of thing. But still some variety would be good. They do understand that their work is often... unappreciated, and so come prepared.

To Stealth Marmot: A little bit on the modern side, but otherwise I agree.

Vinyadan
2016-11-18, 08:36 AM
Nnnnope. While sickle was used during most of the human history, scythe, appearing around 500 AD and spreading during 12th century, was definitely used for grains. The shift from mostly sickle to mostly scythe happened around 16th century (based on pictorial evidence, it may have happened a lot sooner), by the 18th century, you have grain cradles added to them.

Long story short, any painting of grim reaper in proper perspective was done when scythes were used to harvest grain.

To quote you, "Nnnnnope". Or, I think you are overstating things, and missing the reason behind the swaps.

Beside the fact that I guess you swapped a BC with an AD in there, the scythe wasn't normally used for grains because it causes loss of grains (the corn falls to the ground). Only in the 19th century did the scythe become convenient for crops, because, in spite of still causing losses, the production had ramped up and collecting grains fast enough was more important than collecting every grain. Otherwise, the scythe was only used in situations in which manual labour was scarce and being fast was more important than doing things right (to avoid situations in which the harvest was ruined by slowness or weather change). The preference was normally for the sickle, to which people came back when the workforce shortage was over.

There actually is a whole book about this stuff: Bringing in the Sheaves : Economy and Metaphor in the Roman World. The information I posted can be read here. https://books.google.de/books?id=q4d95bTa-ZgC&pg=PA142&lpg=PA142&dq=which+crops+scythe&source=bl&ots=eLr9icXZpU&sig=Kv3zfKs3fH_kg1jN-WOnB8YUBoY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivm5TPpbLQAhXFD8AKHVo4AzY4ChDoAQg_MAo#v =onepage&q=which%20crops%20scythe&f=false

There also is a chapter about earlier "grim reapers", which I haven't read.

And even today in all places in which I have seen these works done by hand with a sufficient workforce, the sickle is used for crops and the scythe is used for cutting grass.

But it is interesting that, following the Plague, scythes saw more use. People along the road seeing few harvesters with scythes instead of many with sickles doubtlessly connected them to the previous mortality.

As for pictorial evidence, feel free to post it. I couldn't find it. Instead, I found these (France 1412-16):

Cutting grass:https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_juin.j pg

harvesting grains: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_juille t.jpg
Again, grass https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Ciclo_dei_mesi%2C_luglio.jpg
Grains: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Ciclo_dei_mesi%2C_agosto.jpg

Berenger
2016-11-18, 10:50 AM
I'd still go with the renaissance hunting crossbow, those could be works of art full of evocative imagery without sacrificing utility as a killing-tool (in other words, they managed to avoid the phenomenon that makes many darrrk & eeevil fantasy weapons unintentionally funny).



Um... err... ezzerbarr... I'll look into that. Any further input?

Depending on what bards can do in your system / at the relevant CR:

1. Playing Music (slow and melancholic or frantic and jarring, depending on the situation). The music debuffs the target (by instilling fear, depriving it of sleep, counter-spelling protective magic etc.).

2. Diplomacy / Subterfuge / Breaking and Entering. Persons who are powerful enough to cheat death will be powerful enough to have servants and armed guards and may reside in a fortified location such as a castle. If the death-squad doesn't like to lay siege to places or to kill bystanders, bards are able to charm / sneak / lockpick their way into guarded areas without being challenged.

3. Magic: Things like "Open Lock", a modified version of "Irresistible Dance" that mimics the appearance of a "Danse Macabre" (for crowd control), "Vampiric Touch" and various other spells of the illusion, enchantment, divination and necromancy schools would be thematically appropriate, I think.

For the imagery and sound, I'd go with something like this:

https://abload.de/img/11glpk.jpg
https://abload.de/img/2palyg.jpg
https://abload.de/img/3u5xm3.jpg
https://abload.de/img/40ibso.jpg
https://abload.de/img/5eiah3.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIuotFZnBtk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qtwagzDamA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En1dfFxfGSQ&list=PLeCaPtiNE3WHiO6yoxNxHGe6AlCIuhiOR&index=3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rOtFevwHJw

NightDweller
2016-11-18, 09:00 PM
Patience.



A Reaper-themed mortal/ex-mortal/mortal-level guy, though? I'd go for whatever age-appropriate weapon combines precision and hard to notice projectiles (without losing lethality, of course), to give as much as possible of the "John ran away, then John was a corpse" vibe; so (depending on timeframe/culture) either handguns, shuriken/throwing knives (have to be good with them, though) or hand crossbow(s).

Shuriken are not designed or are really capable of lethal blows without poisons or something along those lines.

Lord Haart
2016-11-19, 02:52 AM
Shuriken are not designed or are really capable of lethal blows without poisons or something along those lines.

Well, in real life, sure; on the other hand, in real life a Reaper's perfect weapon is whatever is the most cutting edge in a given time period, anyway — humans are pretty good with coming up with stuff that kills people better and certainlier. Nobody said realism is a goal, though. Look no further than almost any fantasy anime for good examples of utterly lethal (either by always striking vitals no matter how difficult a target they would be or by having improbable armor-piercing force) shurikens.

NightDweller
2016-11-19, 10:08 PM
Well, in real life, sure; on the other hand, in real life a Reaper's perfect weapon is whatever is the most cutting edge in a given time period, anyway — humans are pretty good with coming up with stuff that kills people better and certainlier. Nobody said realism is a goal, though. Look no further than almost any fantasy anime for good examples of utterly lethal (either by always striking vitals no matter how difficult a target they would be or by having improbable armor-piercing force) shurikens.

I personally tend to like my games to be fairly realistic with added fantasy elements to them.

propheticsteel
2016-11-28, 12:43 AM
Scythe launcher, duh

Kane0
2016-11-28, 02:09 AM
It just reaches out and brings you towards it.

Remember: Death comes for us all, just as surely we come to it.

Vinyadan
2016-11-28, 07:02 AM
It just reaches out and brings you towards it.


Scorpion wins! Flawless victory!

Millstone85
2016-11-28, 08:16 AM
Kamas obviously. They're like mini scythes, but conveniently located on chains for chucking.But of course Japan would invent the chain-sickle...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VweLV6lW8I

Or just give the thrown property to sickles in the bony hands of the Reaper.

Braininthejar2
2016-11-28, 08:32 AM
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/135592/4817940-1327312673-the_s.jpg

Cluedrew
2016-11-28, 07:51 PM
To Kane0: A good idea, but what would do that? Magic? Pseudo-Magic? Chains?

To Braininthejar2: So... six shot revolvers?

Kane0
2016-11-28, 09:00 PM
Probably magic. The reaper would not stoop to something so dreadfully mundane and failure-prone as a simple rope or chain.
Ideally it would be magic that extends his own bony arms to the appropriate length rather than a telekinesis-like effect.

Bohandas
2016-11-28, 09:03 PM
A lawnmower blade thrown like a giant shuriken. Or possibly the throwable scythe from Postal 2

Braininthejar2
2016-11-28, 10:03 PM
To Kane0: A good idea, but what would do that? Magic? Pseudo-Magic? Chains?

To Braininthejar2: So... six shot revolvers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_of_Killers

Incorrect
2016-11-29, 04:10 AM
An ancient hooded lantern that shines no light.
When pointed towards someone it steals their years, effectively ageing them to death in seconds.
It is only used to quicken a "natural death" if Death, for hes own unknowable reasons, does not wish to murder the individual.

Cluedrew
2016-11-29, 10:20 PM
On Kane0: Why stretch them? They could just come off, which would fit the skeleton bit of the skeleton quite well.

On Saint of Killers: This is the second time that character has come up, and maybe I should have addressed this directly, but I just don't get it. It is a really strong gun-slinger that kills everything. The Saint part seemed cool but it seems (well, I haven't read preacher so maybe it is just how it has been presented) to just be a cool name that loosely ties into his supernatural origin.

Care to explain?

On a Lantern: Now that feels right. Not for any reason I can put my finger on but it does. Definitely potential there, thank-you.

Kane0
2016-11-30, 02:03 AM
Agreed on the lantern

Doorhandle
2016-11-30, 04:14 AM
Probably just swings the scythe in the direction of his target and they get cut.

.

Gehrman the first hunter approves.

Braininthejar2
2016-11-30, 06:40 AM
Care to explain?

He's a damned gunman who got a job as the angel of death. The question was about "what ranged weapon Death would use", his guns seemed a logical answer.