Ways to annoy your players... In a fun way!

[nintendoh]

I am not a good dm. Sometime i fudge the rules, or even forget them. Most of the days i have to wing a portion of the session. I sometimes lose track of hp totals. That being said i try very hard to be a fun dm. Rewards for good role playing and creativity. I do different voices for npcs. My players have a guildmaster who speaks like ben stein and the is a 2000 year old lich named Q who is responsible for creating the character equipment and running the lab. The one dmpc i used was a barbarian half orge war hulk named cuddle bugs the destructor of gnomes. He just loves to hug the wee men. Something is missing though. Its big. I need a villian now to make the story progress. The best villian. The most annoying baztard you can ever think of. Im not looking for builds, thought if you want to help thanks. Im looking for ideas. Ideas on how to annoy the **** out of the characters. To the point where when the baddie actually dies they stand up and scream thats right you bastard. Help me think of a few things to do this. What would you hatel but still have fun playing against?

[John Longarrow]

Diplomancer based off the Joker's personality. Totally unhinged loon who can talk people into just about anything. I'd use Bard for the skills and abilities, plus that would let them use Alter Self to be just about anyone they wanted to.

This is that maniac who leaves a specific calling card to take credit for what they do but is almost impossible to find. This is the person who's messes the PCs keep having to clean up AFTER they have left. This is the unpredictable storm of chaos that leaves cities in ruins, castles covered in strange plants, princesses turned into frogs, and a host of other madcap antics, all for the shear pleasure they themselves derive from their actions.

This is the anti-batman wizard. This is the lunatic who never plans but is a master at improvisation.

[nintendoh]

I saw the joker bard. Thats is a good idea. Very evil... Very frustrating.


How can i make it annoying? High pitched voice?

[John Longarrow]

If you run them right, the PCs never know who they are or where they are.... or what they are planning until its waaaay to late. You can have your PCs go the entire campaign without ever catching up, just cleaning up. Let them find him dead... more than once. Do great fun things, including tossing copy cats and duplicates at them. Let them face off against a group of simulacra of him, but they will never be sure they really caught him.

[nintendoh]

I was thinking about having them run a fetch quest and having the maguffin replace by a note that says. " im sorry your artifact is in another dungeon."

Thats fun and annoying. Clones are a great idea thanks. What about advancing his age catagory and making him a little old lady?
What about using some of the strange but useful magic items.

Feather tokes and immovablee rods.

[nintendoh]

Any other good ideas?

[Echch]

Have them work for the evil guy without realizing it. When they find out, top it of with a line like "what, just because I have angel wings you thought you could trust me? Of course I don't look like a demon! I'm evil, not stupid!"

[the_david]

One of my players played a NE orphan tiefling who had accidentally killed a woman when she burned her house down, with the husband of that woman becoming an infamous hunter. (She didn't know how to play an evil character at the time. She's getting better at it though.) The player asked me if we could have a dream session that would reveal more about her origin, so we did. In the dream she saw her mother signing a contract given to her by a contract devil (Pathfinder.) and later becoming pregnant and giving birth to a tiefling child. The father took the baby and abandoned her at a hospital. The tiefling then recognised the man as the infamous hunter that had been hunting her for some time now. (The look on her face was priceless.)
She then ran in to the contract devil and made a deal. She would perform 3 services for him if he would release the soul of her mother.

So just hit them where it hurts.

Another one I haven't used yet is a time dragon. The players will run into the lair of a time dragon, defeat it but not kill it, and move on. (Hopefully) Levels later they will run into him again, but he's aged a thousand years. He's hellbent on revenge and has used his timetravel ability to travel back into the past. The players might also find a journal at some point that details the pleasure the dragon had in killing and eating the parents of one of the PCs. (If one of the players is foolish enough to decide to play an orphan. Can you tell that I have a slight grudge against players that create characters with little to no ties to their past?)

The dragon has a reason to hate the heroes, and the heroes have a reason to hate the dragon. If played well, it should remain a mystery why the dragon hates the heroes so much.

[Afgncaap5]

Well... it'd take some work, but you could always give the villain a character quirk that exists outside of their primary motivations.

Imagine the PCs laying a very careful trap in a room, but then the villain misses it because he enters the room, sees a crooked painting on the side wall, and walks straight to the painting to fix it, handily missing the rigged carpet that was straight ahead of the door.

Also, while the Joker route is probably the clearer route to success, every once in a while a villain who's a genuinely nice person can really frustrate players. Like, sure, they're evil, completely and irredeemably evil, but they might also be genuinely concerned with the personal lives of the players.

Oh! And can you improvise very well? If the villain is musically talented, having him or her being able to sing about what's happening while the players are in peril can work wonders if pulled off well (emphasis on pulled off well, though.) Even if you don't want to go that route, a villain who has his or her own "theme song" that he or she keeps finding excuses to play or sing can make a leitmotif for the players to latch onto.

[nintendoh]

Whelp singing is genius.

That time dragon is a awesome idea with backstory.

The villian is a nice guy it a great idea too. Thanks.

[John Longarrow]

Nice guy to some, total maniac to others works very well. Have you seen silence of the lambs? Hannibal is a very intelligent, very cultured individual who takes great interest is Starling. Course he also kills and eats people who offend his sensibilities, but that's different...

If he's got at least 4 levels in Bard he can have alter self. That plus high ranks in disguise and bluff work wonders. The party could wind up meeting him several times without realizing it.

In my game the party has just encountered a bad guy who's going to be very difficult to deal with. Bad guy is a ghost who has levels in Bard and other casting. He uses a spell that rips the soul from a victims body but leaves the body alive (and easily possessed) so he can wear them like suits of clothing. Party found out about this when they found three meat suits and a bound girl about to become "Wednesday"... BBEG can be totally nice until he decides to go about killing off everyone to take over the world.

[Soultpp]

I'm new here, and not an experienced DM at all, but I did have an idea after reading through the thread.

It's quite simple and similar to other suggestions only it turns things completely on their head. The 'BBEG' is... Not! He is honestly not a bad guy at all and all that he does is, in his mind, for the greater good. After all, "for the greater good" is a very common rationalization that people use to excuse otherwise indecent behavior. The other quote that inspires this idea is, "the path to hell is paved in good intentions".

I have seen a number of truly inspiring 'villains' in literature that were never evil, or at least never considered themselves evil, just thought that what they were doing needed to be done. Sometimes those who follow a "the strong must lead the weak" mentality can fit in this category and they often have underlings who do not to help further confuse the issue.

Assuming that your PCs are all goodly aligned this can potentially throw them for a major loop, especially if the guy in question is particularly persuasive in his logic.

Anyways, just my two cents, dunno if the exchange rate leaves it at that though. ^_^

[Lokiron]

Everyone hates to be betrayed. The betrayal could be the murder of a beloved NPC. That has worked really well for me.
One way communication is also frustrating. Powerlessness is also super annoying, and an easy tool early in the story. Maybe the villain has so little regard for the would be heroes, he's not even going to get off his horse and kill them. Instead he laughs at their futile attempt to save their village.

[nintendoh]

How would i go about using a spell like command to make an npc lay down in a river and drown

[Thaneus]

An idea which I used in a long lived side line of my sessions was an NPC, a kind guy to the boot, a bit flimsy but lovingly and was always good for a laugh in the group. They even tried to willingly back him up and aid him (because he needed a place to stay at one point and the party just pulled him into adventuring).
At one point, i had him seemingly die, with all attempts of rescue failing.
He survived on other means but because he felt so much anguish and pain, became insane, partly crippled and went all "Two-Face" with a very twisted look on justice. He is not out to get revenge for abandoning, he is still believing in his proteges, but goes his own path down to being a living devil (Dark Avanger type).
The Party then opposed this "new" BBEG because of his cruelty without knowing who they faced. They wondered why he never tried to kill them truly and why he know how they would act.
When they realized the slayed Boss was a former friend they were pissed, very much. But after i explained them they never attempted to talk or investigate this guy, how are they supposed to find out who he was (it bugged a long time that they ran adventures like a cruise missile, locked on target). They would have been able to help, rescue and maybe even heal him.
No Paladins had fallen in this arc, because the guy was evil but... you know... the taste of this victory was very bad for them.
Now they use more scrying and gather information :)

[Garktz]

Animated objects....

Have your bbeg be an awakened animated object with some class levels, lets say, a throne, wich has a skeleton sitting on it enchanted so when the bbeg speaks, the skeleton moves his mouth so it seems its the skeleton talking...

In a lair with some skeletons and some animated objects... but sometimes there are rooms filled with just regular skeletons of dead people and sometimes they are undead... same with objects, sometimes animated sometimes not...

Your players will become paranoid when the door atacks them and sure will cringe when they go for the "skeleton bbeg" to be attacked by its throne...

[nintendoh]

Thank you for the animated toilet seat.


I also like the tragic storyline of two face. It doesnt seem to fit with the current light hearted campaign. Im going to use it in a different one.

[John Longarrow]

Your players will become paranoid when the door atacks them and sure will cringe when they go for the "skeleton bbeg" to be attacked by its throne...

I think I'd not go into the garterobe if the bbeg is on the throne...

[Hiro Quester]

About the best advice for this kind of thing I know of would be obtained by a summons:


Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel!

Until he appears, or in case His Malevolent Awesomeness chooses not to appear, Red Fel's Guide to Lawful Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448542-Compliance-Will-Be-Rewarded-A-Guide-to-Lawful-Evil) is a pretty good place to start for evil archetypes and options, and how to motivate your players to hate the BBEG and cheer for his eventual demise.

And as a shortcut, just have the BBEG take the players stuff and thwart their goals, and get away with it. Repeatedly. Just because he can.

That alone can get players motivated to try to take him out. Have them try and fail a few times.

By the end of the story arc, they will be screaming for his blood.

[John Longarrow]

And as a shortcut, just have the BBEG take the players stuff and thwart their goals, and get away with it. Repeatedly. Just because he can.

Have the BBEGs minions do this, telling the players WHY they are having their stuff taken.... Lets be realistic here, if the BBEG stoops to stealing the candy from kids himself he's just a bully. If he's doing it through minions he a politician, and we've seen how much people hat THEM!

[DataNinja]

Have the BBEGs minions do this, telling the players WHY they are having their stuff taken.... Lets be realistic here, if the BBEG stoops to stealing the candy from kids himself he's just a bully. If he's doing it through minions he a politician, and we've seen how much people hat THEM!

Also, this way they can get their stuff back, without defeating the big bad. And they can have it stolen again.

[nintendoh]

Wow. Somebody summoned Red Fel.

Cool. Didnt think this was worthy.

Party is a druid archivist and rogue in a guild where they can recruit guildmates as hirelings for a percentage of the quest reward. They are pretty clever and find interesting solutions to problems. Really proud of them actually, they keep me on my toes. I was thinking about the bbg. Maybe he shouldnt be LE. What does the playground think of a BBG thats chaotic neutral instead?

[LordOfCain]

Wow. Somebody summoned Red Fel.

Cool. Didnt think this was worthy

May not be worthy, but applying a liberal summoning of Red Fel to a thread NEVER hurts.

[Red Fel]

About the best advice for this kind of thing I know of would be obtained by a summons:


Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel!

I was beginning to think that people forgot how to do this.


Until he appears, or in case His Malevolent Awesomeness chooses not to appear, Red Fel's Guide to Lawful Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448542-Compliance-Will-Be-Rewarded-A-Guide-to-Lawful-Evil) is a pretty good place to start for evil archetypes and options, and how to motivate your players to hate the BBEG and cheer for his eventual demise.

And as a shortcut, just have the BBEG take the players stuff and thwart their goals, and get away with it. Repeatedly. Just because he can.

That alone can get players motivated to try to take him out. Have them try and fail a few times.

By the end of the story arc, they will be screaming for his blood.

This is entirely true.


Something is missing though. Its big. I need a villian now to make the story progress. The best villian. The most annoying baztard you can ever think of. Im not looking for builds, thought if you want to help thanks. Im looking for ideas. Ideas on how to annoy the **** out of the characters. To the point where when the baddie actually dies they stand up and scream thats right you bastard. Help me think of a few things to do this. What would you hatel but still have fun playing against?

Ahh, villainy. Where to begin? Why, at the top, of course. Or, better yet, on the way there. Simple option, just off the top of my head. Call it spitballing, if you like. Consider the following.

Your villain is a friendly NPC questgiver. He pays the PCs fairly, never haggles or messes around with them, never asks for the impossible. He provides a consistent source of influence and income. There's a reason for all that, of course.

He's a Xanatos.

He isn't so much "playing" the PCs as "using" them. He deals fairly with them because it allows him to cultivate a public image and reputation for fair dealing. He sends the PCs on simple jobs so that nobody notices. And what the PCs return with isn't so much wealth as it is influence - pieces of information, objects of personal value, choice nuggets that give him sway over others.

Give the PCs some clues, of course. Over the course of the PCs' dealings with this guy, they ought to notice how his home gets nicer and more ornate with each visit. How he has less and less time to visit with them personally, as busy as he is becoming with various affairs of state. How his name was first not-known, then well-known, then whispered suspiciously.

Time it. The moment that the PCs confront him is the moment he had intended to spring the trap all along. If they try to pin something on him, he turns around with solid evidence pinning it on them. If they accuse him publicly, the public outcry against these maniacs sends them into hiding. Whatever the context, their accusation of him works immediately to their ruin - the guild loses its charter and home base, any real estate they own is seized, any secret vaults are locked down. They're left with what they're carrying, and that only if they escape capture. The final step in his plan is to create an enemy, in order to become the peoples' champion - and that enemy is the PCs.

In that moment, he takes everything. Their property, true, but more importantly, their reputation. Best of all, they can never confront him openly - he's constantly surrounded by others, making capture or casualties inevitable. They can try to approach him, disguise themselves or come under the guise of negotiation, but he'll be untouchable. Which will only infuriate the players more.

How's that?

[nintendoh]

Thats a great idea. Gonna go with that. Wow.

[John Longarrow]

Two useful tricks to go with Red Fel's advice...
First make sure that the PCs are involved with multiple encounters with another group that can be seen as EVIL. These need to be out of the public eye for their execution but known to be done by them.

Example is they are sent to stop bandits. PCs go forth, beat the bandit leader and the rest take off.
Behind the scenes bad guy quest giver is using the PCs to kill of the leader so his agent can take over the group.

Second make sure that the PCs continue to encounter, but fail to defeat another known EVIL. This should also be public.

Example would be PCs sent out to chase off monster. Each time they get close monster disappears before they can fight it.

This way there are already whispers that the PCs are really behind a lot of the stuff going on. So long as they stay loyal to your BBEG he keeps them around. Once they show their "True colors" there are enough people who already think they are bad guys to support your BBEG.

[D4rkh0rus]

Red fel's opinion is just masterclass.

I would like to throw my 2 copper in case you're still deciding...

Copy pasta some antagonist from cartoons :p they usually get the whole 'characters want to kill me' thing real well.

If you can get the voice right, and you make a bbeg that acts like lemongrab from adventure time. I'm pretty sure that the party will want to kill him from square one.

The other would be to do like gravity falls,
Have a cipher-like bbeg looming around them, slowly getting stronger, and with each new step into reality, he messes more and more with it (and by extension, he messes with the party as well).
Heck, have him trick the party into helping him materialize, they'll hate him Even more.
By the time the actual final boss fight rolls around, probably requiring some magical artifact to finally erase him for good, they'll feel like 'hell yeah'