Naruto is samurai not ninja!

[Koga]

The Koga was thinking about it for awhile.. and he realized that the self proclaimed "ninja" of Naruto are not ninja at all but infact samurai!

Let's rundown thier basic philosophy...

Most "shinobi" liveby a complete loyalty to thier village, which has a military, a society, etc.

Ninja don't give a damn about thier village, thier government, etc. Ninja were rogues who were payed to disrupt communities and assasinate bigwigs!


Most "shinobi" are to only use their most dangerous moves or for that matter ever fight in the event thier life or someone they love's life is indanger, or to defend "thier ninja way". Infact, the naruto series puts a strong emphasis on "thier ninja way", as if to strongly propose that honor and dreams are the means of becoming a ninja.

That's not ninja, that's samurai!


The only real ninja of Naruto are always the villains. The self-serving bastards who fight for power (Itatchi Uchia), money (Zabuza), or sheer lust for destruction! (Orochimaru)

Kabuto was a good example of a ninja, he was madeout to be a medicore genin who failed multiple chunin exams, and yet Orochimaru proclaimed he was "no stronger then Kakashi" meaning he was atleast jounin level!

That's ninja! Being a mean little man who poisons his victims and makes them underestimate them so that they can get a pre-emptive shot on!

Most of the goodguy "ninja" can't accept this. Thier pride gets in the way of rational combat stradegy. SAMURAI!


Infact, Sarutobi (the third hokgae) has samurai armor under his robes. And even those kage robes are more samurai in style then ninja!

[Xuincherguixe]

I knew there was a reason that none of them really seemed like Ninja.

[Drakron]

Naruto sucks.

A lot of stuff about ninjas are legends, they were very much infiltration units that run intel, sabotage and assassination of key personal ... they pretty much did what was "too dirty" for a samurai using all the "dirty" tricks they could use.

Naruto is pretty much the standard Shounen action show with the whole "power over 9000" type special moves.

[Breaon]

Does he serve a feudal lord samurai or daimyo? If not, he's not a samurai, but more appropriately ronin.

[Indurain]

Doesn't this belong in Media??

[Dr._Weird]

The Naruto characters don't deserve either title.


"power over 9000"

IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAND!

[Dispozition]

The naruto characters don't deserve either title.

It's true...They're complete dumbasses...The show is bearable...In small amounts...But all the characters suck...

And they'd be closes to ninjae because of the justsus the use.

[reorith]

naruto is neither. he is a closeted furry.

[dungeon_munky]

According to Wikipedia:

Their roles may have included sabotage, espionage, scouting, and assassination missions as a way to destabilize and cause social chaos in an enemy country or to an opposing ruler, perhaps in the service of their feudal rulers (daimyo,shogun), or an underground Ninja organization waging guerilla warfare.

In their history, ninja groups were small and structured around families and villages, later developing a more martial hierarchy that was able to mesh more closely with that of samurai and the daimyo. These certain ninjutsu trained groups were set in these villages for protection against raiders and robbers.
This seems to me as though it is very similar to Naruto.

Using their ultimate power moves only when their lives are in danger makes sense; why would you give away strategy needlessly, and have people easily determining your power? No, this is to make people underestimate you, as you said ninja should do.

As for only using their best moves when they are protecting those they love? That's only the young ninja. What this leads to is genin protecting other Genin, leading to a stronger military power in the future.

And sarutobi's armour? The only thing that resembles what we see samurai wearing is the banded helmet.

Doing a quick wiki search on samurai, I came up with this.


Despite the rampant romanticism of the 20th century, samurai could be disloyal and treacherous, cowardly, brave, or overly loyal.

[FdL]

OMG! The Koga should report this to the guy who actually created the manga/anime and help him correct this horrible mistake which made him earn millions of dollars!

As always, the world is safe thanks to the fact that The Truth can be found somewhere in an internet forum.

[Mr. Moon]

Naruto is neither Ninja or Samurai. Naruto is an alternite, Japan-like universe, where the tittle of the class just so happens to be commenly reffered to as Ninja or Shinobi. Even Kishimoto-senesi has stated that Naruto has no clear time point.

That help?

[Wraithy]

the show gets annoying, but the manga is good.
its fiction, only fiction, loosley based on ninja mythos.

P.S. the quality of a naruto story arc is inversley proportional to the number of flashbacks and fillers included.

[FdL]

Naruto is neither Ninja or Samurai. Naruto is an alternite, Japan-like universe, where the tittle of the class just so happens to be commenly reffered to as Ninja or Shinobi. Even Kishimoto-senesi has stated that Naruto has no clear time point.

That help?

And where there's entire villages where everyone is a ninja.
Plus they dress in bright colors.

So, yeah, don't ask for historical accuracy or correspondance with japanese culture. That's not the point of Naruto.

[zeratul]

Dungeon, disloyal masterless samurai weren't samurai. They were ronin. Another word for rogue ninjas

[Ranis]

Naruto is a horrible anime, why bother analyzing it?

[StickMan]

No what you're describing is a movie Ninja. Real Ninja lived in villages often that to most people who when trough them would think they were just a standard village full of people living and working. Ninja were trained by there families, from generation to generation. The worked for there local lords as spies most often, sometimes they did assassination work but this was rare even for a ninja. They most never wore the whole black assassin get up as they were better off moving around as normal looking people.

I know you have this picture of ninja from movies and they are cool there but that is Hollywood and Hollywood rarely gets things right. But the real history of Ninja is also very cool.

Actually the points you are making about Naruto are some of the few realistic things in the show. Mind you the Ninja would never name there village "The hidden village in the..."

Read this page from Wiki if you think I'm full of it, and no this is not were I learned about Ninja. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja)

[PhallicWarrior]

Naruto is a moron.

[StickMan]

Naruto is a moron.

Well yes this is true but has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

[dungeon_munky]

Dungeon, disloyal masterless samurai weren't samurai. They were ronin. Another word for rogue ninjas


Notice I didn't say masterless, but treacherous. So long as they still have the favour of their lord, they are still considered samurai, regardless of how loyal they are.

[Triggerhappy938]

Roy's power level > 9000

[Magioth]

damn next you'll be saying they arent ninjas because they dont wear black clothes, i mean who better to interpret a childs cartoon they someone who most definately knows nothnig about the history of both samurai or ninja, but hey why post it on internet forums? run to the press. KOGA THINKS NARUTO IS A SAMURAI.

seriously though moving away from ripping you. You have listed everything wrong of which they have shown a ninja to be, and yet only shown no decent evidence of them being samurai. Sure they dont act like "real" ninjas but just because they dont doesnt automatically put them in the side of their opposite the samurai.

a village completely reliant on ninjitshu, dont you think they would fight to protect it, they go out to protect the village to get paid, the same as a soldier fights for his country.

[Death, your friend the Reaper]

Naruto is a moron.

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/n/U/moran.jpg

Seemed relevant to the discussion.

[Xuincherguixe]

Despite the frequent stupidity, and the lack of Ninjaness, I actually like Naruto.

Not the greatest thing ever though.


As far as the Dragon Ball Z links go. You people do realize that's intentional right? I mean, Naruto's completely unninja like clothing is a reference to Goku.

[Sye216]

Hmm...This is an interesting thread. I never really looked at Naruto (The show or him) like that, and it's giving me an interesting opinion. Ninjas don't need to be dishonorable to be ninjas. That's kinda strange reasoning. Yes, I have to admit, the clothing colors can be rather strange (Seriously, What kind of ninja wears ORANGE?) and sometimes the uses of weapons and armor can make one think they are like samurai, but most of their physical attacks are speed-based, while samurai attacks are power based. That, and they use throwing weapons like ninja. Correct me if I'm wrong (Because this is just an assumption), but I don't think that samurai used throwing weapons like shuriken. That's just my reasoning.
And yes, Naruto is a moron. I agree with everyone who said that.

[SurlySeraph]

Naruto is neither Ninja or Samurai. Naruto is an alternite, Japan-like universe, where the tittle of the class just so happens to be commenly reffered to as Ninja or Shinobi. Even Kishimoto-senesi has stated that Naruto has no clear time point.

That help?

Everyone here blatantly insulted Naruto... and Moon_Called isn't angry?


















IT'S A TRAP! SHE'S HIDING SOMEWHERE WITH A WINDMILL SHURIKEN, AND SHE'S GOING TO STAB US WITH IT! WE JUST CAN'T SEE HER BECAUSE SHE'S WEARING ORANGE!

[Wraithy]

naruto the abridged series is great at displaying most of these points, here's the first episode:
http://www.dailymotion.com/MasakoX/video/x1es8y_naruto-the-abridged-series-episode

they never made the samurai connection though
(warning, the second episode is the worst, don't let it stop you watching the rest of the series)

[hanzo66]

The series itself is pretty standard/run of the mill shonen. I stopped watching the show a while ago (I'll occasionally check up on the current Manga however).


Yeah, Naruto's whole honor system (Blah blah blah, precious people, yadda yadda, don't go back on your word, insert more idealistic crap) really wouldn't fit with an actual ninja. Stealth is not that often (or is never really effective) and the only character I know who used stealth as one of his primary elements is Zabuza.

[Madmal]

Everyone here blatantly insulted Naruto... and Moon_Called isn't angry?

((unnecessary spaces))...

IT'S A TRAP! ((yadda yadda, paranoidic-and probably accurate-stuff :smalltongue:))

Well, just because there are Narutards, that doesn't mean we will defend fanatically the series, as it was some kind of reason for our existence.:smalltongue:



Roy's power level > 9000
Now this, this confuses and annoys me at the same time. (and yes, i get the reference)

*goes back to lurk and read FMA manga*

[Mr. Moon]

IT'S A TRAP! SHE'S HIDING SOMEWHERE WITH A WINDMILL SHURIKEN, AND SHE'S GOING TO STAB US WITH IT! WE JUST CAN'T SEE HER BECAUSE SHE'S WEARING ORANGE!


... Okay, your first to die for giving me away like that.


No, I understand how foolish it was of Koga to post this. Now, if this were any other thread, you'd all be watching massive amounts of Yuri right now.


Well, just because there are Narutards, that doesn't mean we will defend fanatically the series, as it was some kind of reason for our existence.


... It isn't? o.o


Yeah, Naruto's whole honor system (Blah blah blah, precious people, yadda yadda, don't go back on your word, insert more idealistic crap) really wouldn't fit with an actual ninja. Stealth is not that often (or is never really effective) and the only character I know who used stealth as one of his primary elements is Zabuza.

Oh! Don't forget the Demon Brothers! Of course, they worked for Gato, and thus for Zabuza... But that changes nothing!

Oh, and the ninja from the Snow village could be sneaky, too.

[Sean92k]

... It isn't? o.o
It should be

[Valairn]

All this Naruto hate makes me sad, its one of my favorite shows.

[Sean92k]

All this Naruto hate makes me sad, its one of my favorite shows.Same here :smallfrown:

[Mr. Moon]

It fills me with a rightious rage, does that count?

[Sean92k]

It fills me with a rightious rage, does that count?Sure. Hates good, I might trade in some sad for a bit of hate :smallmad:

[Xuincherguixe]

Hate makes the world go round!

[Sean92k]

Hate makes the world go round!LIKE HELL IT DOES :smallfurious:

[Mr. Moon]

*pats on shoulders* Calm down. Your rage is wasted unless properly used to smite the infedels. Here, use these. *hands them both a DVD* You can probably geuss what's on it.

[Sean92k]

*hands them both a DVD* You can probably geuss what's on it.Does it begin with a 'p' and end in 'orn'? Joking :smallbiggrin:

[Mr. Moon]

No, it starts with a Y and ends with an I.

[Sean92k]

No, it starts with a Y and ends with an I.Could that be YurI?

[Mr. Moon]

That too. It could also be Yaoi.

[Sean92k]

Meh, I can trade it for yuri if it is :smallbiggrin:

[Mr. Moon]

... Yup. Deffinitly Yaoi.

(o,o)

[Sean92k]

:smallbiggrin: :smalleek: :smallwink: :smallredface: :smallsigh:

[Callos_DeTerran]

It fills me with a rightious rage, does that count?

I'd think it does. :smallbiggrin: But hey, who cares what I think? I'm just one of those 'Narutards' that all you guys seem to look down on so much.

[Sean92k]

I'm just one of those 'Narutards' that all you guys seem to look down on so much.Join the club. We have jackets. Upsettingly. Orange. Jackets.

[Faithdreamer]

Stop being jerks.
This is all I should say with the belief that I'm probably doing the wrong thing by joining in on this discussion but I feel compelled to act.

She might have meant NARUTO DVDs.
Could everyone please read what I am about to type?

Naruto is an Anime made by a person so very mean comments can hurt a lot. Please be considerate.
If anyone wants my opinion:

NARUTO is a creative endeavor made for fun and wuv, who says it has to parallel real world history?
Does anyone want to talk about what they like about this anime and what bothers them?


...oh. :smallredface:
Sorry I thought someone was being mean to posters. But don't be mean to NARUTO either. Please excuse me.

[The Great Skenardo]

The other secret is that ninja are by default at least seven times as awesome as samurai. You can pulls tricks out of your butt (or tricks using someone else's butt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_taijutsu_in_Naruto#Thousand_Years_of_Death )) with little regard for narrative sense and destroy great swaths of old-growth forest simply because some other dude is your rival.

<_<
>_>
Believe it!

[Jerthanis]

I've been into the Naruto Manga forever (since issue 135 in Japan), and while it's obscenely slow moving at times (I think that when the "Save Sasuke from the Sound ninjas" arc ended it was more than 25% of the total content of the entire Manga series... and had even gotten to be longer than the Chunin exam somehow, despite the fact that very little ended up happening) and sometimes the action is hard to follow, there's a weird type of magic in it. Some sort of blend of action, drama, and hope that makes my skin tingle. I can't help but sympathize with Naruto.

I don't buy that the ninja of Naruto are anything like samurai, who represent a social class more than a specific set of abilities or even a specific code. Have you ever read the tenants of bushido? They don't make ANY sense! About the only ones that don't involve meditating deeply on letting "no mind" be your sword or on "preparedness for all situations" being your armor, and which is clearly spelled out are being subservient to your lord, and serving, protecting and dying with him. Thus, social class.

The entire ninja society inherent in the Naruto series is about the Ninja of the village being hired by outside contractors to do anything ninja can do, from tracking down lost pets to assassination. Naruto ninja are paid to assassinate people, and anyone born in the village is allowed to become a ninja if they wish. Compared to the landed gentry system, where only sons of samurai and appointees can become samurai, Naruto is nothing like that.

Naruto is a Shonen series, and thus has the same gorram morals as every single friggin' Shonen series since the 70s, where friendship, brotherhood, and honor prevail because the writers say it do... still doesn't make Naruto a samurai series, and while not a series following the classic ninja archetype, it still contains some of the classic ninja tricks.

[Wizzardman]

No, it starts with a Y and ends with an I.

Yaoi? Woohoo!


Meh. Who cares if Naruto is about samurai or ninja? As far as I can tell, there aren't any 'movie samurai' or 'movie ninja' in the show, so they can be what they want to be. Its a children's fantasy show, for crying out loud. Its like complaining that Samurai Seven is physically impossible--or that Dragonball Z doesn't have any resemblance to the mythology Dragonball was based on--or that Star Wars' lightsabers would melt the hands of any Jedi who wielded them!

Additionally, to those who complain about Naruto's silly morality and ridiculous 'over 9000!!!' ness, keep in mind: its' a children's fantasy show. Its supposed to be ridiculous, and to teach kids morality in zany and funny ways--quite often by creating ridiculously overpowered anime characters. Was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles much better?

[Lemur]

I'm pretty sure Koga's post was meant to be facetious. At least, I hope so. The pilot manga for Naruto was kind of interesting, though, since Naruto was not a ninja, nor were there any people like ninjas present.

Also, in regards to Naruto's predecessors, Naruto is essentially the next Dragonball Z. Yeah, I said it. Along with Bleach, and perhaps a few others, Naruto is one of the spiritual successors of DBZ. Apparently in more than one way, since both animes go further and further downhill the longer they exist, due to relentlessly drawing out episodes, and excessive filler. But the spirit of shounen rage and unpredictable bursts of power (plus a simpleminded main character) is still there.

The manga, however, is getting better over time, I think. Even though Naruto's mentality doesn't really change after the timeskip, the nature of the plot seems to be moving in an interesting direction.

[crazedloon]

the show gets annoying, but the manga is good.
its fiction, only fiction, loosley based on ninja mythos.

P.S. the quality of a naruto story arc is inversley proportional to the number of flashbacks and fillers included.

quoted for truth

[Wraithy]

quoted for truth

i was quoted! *grabs handy pocket shades*:smallcool: I knew this day would come.

otherwise:
shipuuden has become a little annoying, I swear they've been standing in front of a tunnel for 3 episodes, same goes for bleach, but bleach's fillers are a little more fun. the mangas are better by a wide margin, I'll still watch the animes anyway, its not like I'm paying for them.
.
.
.
.oh wait... this isn't the media discussions section *takes off shades* I surpose this means I'm not ready for the shades yet :smallsigh:

[Mr. Moon]

Join the club. We have jackets. Upsettingly. Orange. Jackets.

Sig'd. ^_^


shipuuden has become a little annoying, I swear they've been standing in front of a tunnel for 3 episodes, same goes for bleach, but bleach's fillers are a little more fun. the mangas are better by a wide margin, I'll still watch the animes anyway, its not like I'm paying for them.


I dunno. I rather like the fillers, especialy the fight between Tenten and Temari.

Of course, I'm waay behind in the serries. My brother said he was taping them for me. If not, I've missed three episodes... >.<

[dungeon_munky]

I dunno. I rather like the fillers, especialy the fight between Tenten and Temari.

Tenten fought Temari during the filler?!?!?!? Why did I skip them?!?!?! *searches for episode* Just to be clear you aren't thinking of the Chuunin exams are you?

[Mr. Moon]

I'm barely past the Chunin exams. Of course that's what I'm talking about.

[dungeon_munky]

Oh. I was thrown off when you said fillers. I thought they were all episodes 136-220.

[B-Man]

Back on topic, Naruto is neither samurai nor ninja. It is fiction. If anything, it is a carbon copy of Dragonball Z. Seriously! Compare the ending scene of episode 90 (I think) where Naruto is charging at Tsunade with the Rasengan (might I add how much I hate the English dub's pronunciation of the move *shiver*) and compare it to when Goku uses the Kamehameha when he's a Super Saiyan. Don't they look disturbingly similiar?

Now to my fandom of Naruto. Yes, I enjoy reading the manga, and Shippuuden is moving slower than molasses in January. I'm rather disappointed that the Kakashi Gaiden wasn't animated (yet). I rather hope that they do.

...and seeing as we're wondering what episodes are filler (or not), here's B-Man's list of Naruto filler episodes:
Episode Numbers: 26, 96-98, 101-106, 136-220

[FdL]

First, this thread needs a "spoilers" tag for those who care.

As said, Naruto is clearly among the spiritual successors of DBZ, with One Piece being another (for the little I've seen of it).

The thing is that with anime, genres follow very strict formulas and tend to repeat themselves. They seem to hammer shamelessly on the same themes and topics.

Let's see...Hard-headed teenage fighter with potential aspires to become very powerful. Fights enemies who have an increasing power, and doing so he acquires new levels of powers. Rinse and repeat until said powers reach a ridiculous level. Oh, also most of the enemies he fights become his allies, in the name of some implicit "macho" acknowledgment of strength. The more powerful he gets, the more chapters battles take.

Like I said, anime is a genre that works best within its limitations, and many of the fans don't care to find familiar plots, situations, characters or designed. There's variations in quality and depth, sure, but originality seems an afterthought. Much like the pop culture it's part of, it feeds on itself.