Open Call for Cleric Builds

[GilesTheCleric]

I've started again in earnest on my cleric handbook after some computer hijinks. Example builds are an important part of handbooks, and the other cleric handbooks don't have a whole lot of them. Rather than creating all the builds myself, I figure I would see what creativity and op-fu you all would like to display. I've thought of a list of some types of builds that would be good to have, but if you have a different idea, go for it.

Google Docs archetypes list (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bJ_UPdzuHJVx_-Bcy8a9s2mozVsDMgHYbvIxNxkjECA/edit?usp=sharing)

also, some resources
Google Docs resources list (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NaHxXp-huNCHazcZqa9dHaN8HUqknlrcErJwpL7vciY/edit?usp=sharing)

[Cosi]

I forget the levels exactly, but something like Cleric 5/Dweomerkeeper 4/Hathran 10/Whatever 1 is quite good. Spell domain for anyspell and Magic domain for Dweomerkeeper. You get Supernatural Spell (one of the best PRC features in the game, IMO up there with Incantatrix's metamagic tricks), circle magic, and spontaneous casting with acorn of far travel. Since you are obliged to worship Mystra, you can take Initiate of Mystra for all the power that entails.

For a somewhat milder (and less campaign specific) version, Cleric 5/Dweomerkeeper 10/Whatever 5 is also serviceable. You lose some raw power, but you have more free feats. Also, you have enough uses of Supernatural Spell to blow some on day-to-day utility.

[Eldariel]

Builds are frankly comparatively of rather minor importance; they are fluid and you can kinda roll with them on the fly. What would really help is a proper analysis of all the spells - the one in the MinMaxBoards Handbook is missing a lot of important spells and lacks a proper description and analysis of a spell's functions entirely. As Cleric is one of the few classes that inherently knows all the spells on their list, and they have a massive array of spells. Thus, there's a huge number of spells for a Cleric and a proper analysis combined with assessment of the spell's usefulness and preparatory worth would go a long way towards helping people play the class, switch up based on expected challenges and have the right allotment for their goals. Particularly the wonderful stuff in Frostburn goes oft-unmentioned.

Another thing that would be useful is a more elaborate analysis of the available prestige classes. Cleric actually has a lot of strong options but not all of the more interesting ones are actually covered by the Handbook at the present (Divine Disciple, Hathran & Dweomerkeeper off the top of my head) and the analyses are brief. Analysis of the ingredients is overall much more helpful than a bunch of ready builds. This allows people to build their own characters.


If you just cover how to go about being a Clericzilla, Cleric Archer, Rogue Cleric (that is, Cleric built to Skill Monkey), Caster Cleric (non-warrior Cleric), Summoner Cleric and Omnicaster Cleric (Cleric built to maximize access to other spell lists), that'll most likely suffice. Trying to cover every possible niche would take you forever and wouldn't ultimately be very productive. People who actually need a handbook will get swamped in the options and be unable to find what they want. A couple of broad archetypes are fully capable of covering the various in-archetype options, and reduce the clutter. A guide needs to not only be comprehensive but also easy-to-access so that the newer players can easily approach the do-it-all class of 3.5 with all the respect it deserves.

[GilesTheCleric]

Builds are frankly comparatively of rather minor importance; they are fluid and you can kinda roll with them on the fly. What would really help is a proper analysis of all the spells - the one in the MinMaxBoards Handbook is missing a lot of important spells and lacks a proper description and analysis of a spell's functions entirely. As Cleric is one of the few classes that inherently knows all the spells on their list, and they have a massive array of spells. Thus, there's a huge number of spells for a Cleric and a proper analysis combined with assessment of the spell's usefulness and preparatory worth would go a long way towards helping people play the class, switch up based on expected challenges and have the right allotment for their goals.

I agree from the perspective of someone that frequents the boards, but for someone that's new to D&D/ 3.5/ clerics, having a good structure to start from should save a lot of headache. I can't count on only two hands the number of threads I've seen asking for "Please help me with my rogue/cleric" or "I'm trying to make a cleric of Fharlanghn. Suggestions?".

I do plan to analyse all of the ~1050 spells in at least some fashion, yes. Keeping the handbook goal-oriented as you describe is one of my prime concerns. I intend to be as thorough as I can, though it does mean I won't be done with the handbook for a while.


Another thing that would be useful is a more elaborate analysis of the available prestige classes. Cleric actually has a lot of strong options but not all of the more interesting ones are actually covered by the Handbook at the present (Divine Disciple, Hathran & Dweomerkeeper off the top of my head) and the analyses are brief. Analysis of the ingredients is overall much more helpful than a bunch of ready builds. This allows people to build their own characters.

PrCs are a great way for clerics to differentiate themselves, and I've already got a rough batch of possible candidates, which is something like 1/3 of all prestige classes (~300).


If you just cover how to go about being a Clericzilla, Cleric Archer, Rogue Cleric (that is, Cleric built to Skill Monkey), Caster Cleric (non-warrior Cleric), Summoner Cleric and Omnicaster Cleric (Cleric built to maximize access to other spell lists), that'll most likely suffice. Trying to cover every possible niche would take you forever and wouldn't ultimately be very productive.

I plan to cover "basic" archetypes at the beginning of the handbook, but I'd like to have an appendix with more interesting and specific detailed builds. You're right that it should be a lower priority. The lack of productivity for me making all these builds is why I'm asking the playground to chip in ^^

[kebusmaximus]

Commenting so this thread doesn't die without being useful to anyone.

Have you looked at the other cleric guides? They generally have in-depth builds. Both the guide from the handbook index on minmaxboards and the guide from the wizards archive in your sig have a section on them.

Though I agree with Eldariel that spells really are the single most important part of being a cleric. Going straight Cleric 20 isn't bad even if it is sub-optimal, but you can't go adventuring without picking spells.

[GilesTheCleric]

Thank you. I'm sorry that there's been so little interest here, but I suppose if that's the will of the playground, then so be it. I'm sure folks will be more motivated once the whole thing is complete.

Yes, I have looked at a few other guides. A partial list is in the "resources" link in the OP.

[JeminiZero]

I have an old build idea here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9774481&postcount=13) that could probably work with some refinement.

[Eldariel]

If you can wait a couple of weeks I could probably put some chassis together but as it stands, I'm just too pressed for time to get into any elaborate projects.

[GilesTheCleric]

Jemini, thank you for the build. I like that it's still pretty effective in an AMF without going into Mystra.

Eladriel, I appreciate it. There's no rush -- the guide won't be done for another several months at least, I expect. I'm just getting a head start on filling in some sections while I work on it concurrently.

[Fuzzy McCoy]

One of the things I'd like to see more of is more talk about the domains and/or the devotion feats associated with them. Both cleric handbooks gloss over the domains, with the one on BG/Minmaxboards not talking about them at all, and the WotC one saved here basically mentions them by their name and that's all. The BG/MMB handbook does better with the devotion feats, but a little more in-depth analysis of some of the domains would be really appreciated.

As for builds, here's one that fits under the smiter archetype: Crusader 1/Cleric 8 (using the champion cleric acf from unearthed arcana)/Sacred Exorcist 1/Fist of Raziel 10. Using an Illumian as the race and sapphire smite, you get 9 smite attempts at your character level, still have plenty of feats left for DMM persist, and more importantly compared to ordained champion, they're paladin smites in every way, which means free activation, which means they can be used multiple times a round if you really really need to, and at worst means your swift action is free for other things besides smites. Obviously I like FoR over Ordained Champion, but even Cleric 5/Ordained Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 10 gets a large number of smites as well, though it's harder to smite and use DMM.

[Anthrowhale]

Another important cleric build is the L1 Persistomancer.

Human Cleric 5 (Undeath -> Extra Turning Feat, Planning -> Extend Spell feat, Rebuke Dragons ACF)/Sacred Exorcist 1 (Turn Undead)/Cleric 2/Contemplative 1(Animal)/Cleric 9
1. Persistent Spell
(Human) DMM Persist
All other feats are Extra Turning or Easy Metamagic (Persistent Spell)
with Charisma maximized.

The Animal domain allows casting Shapechange and Shapechange (Tome Dragon) grants "Easy Metamagic" which provides a -3 metamagic adjustment for -4 total when adding in Easy Metamagic. Altogether, you can persist 1 spell at level 1 and 30 spells at level 18 without compromising spellcasting and only mild compromises to Turn Undead and Rebuke Dragons.

[GilesTheCleric]

domains

I expect that you should be satisfied with my domain coverage; I have 30 pages so far, and am on the letter P. I'm including Shaman, Mystic, and Prestige domains (and rules explanations for how those work), as well as domains from web and dragmag content. I'm also covering Devotion feats and Improved Powers for relevant domains. I've also got links to expanded domain content (alternate domains and spells for specific deities), and the full list of each printing of every domain. In a separate deities section, I have every extant 3.X deity (there are 742 of them) and which domains they grant under different settings. In another section I have a list of all monsters that can cast from domains, and which PrCs grant access. This is the same style of approach I'm taking for the entire handbook.

Thank you for the build, Anthrowhale! That's a great build that you can do a whole lot of things with.

[Virdish]

Just something I put together for you. I'm not the best optimizer so if anyone sees something that could be done better feel free to let me know. In any case it's a neat build that is a little different from your standar cleric. It gets 9th level spells but is behind 3 levels in spellcasting.

Human Cloistered Cleric 5/Dread Witch 5/Walker in the Wastes 10.

Domains
Knowledge domain (knowledge devotion), Deathbound, Divine Magician

Your a fear/necromancer cleric

Divine magician acf with parching touch and scare. Fill the rest of the spells with whatever you need at appropriate levels.

Feats
1. Dreadful wrath
1. Fell frighten
3. Practical Metamagic: fell frighten
6. Practiced Spellcaster
9. Heat Endurance
12. Persistent spell
15. DMM Persist
18.

Items

Everything you can get your hands on that helps turning/rebuking. You need to catch up on your cleric levels for rebuking that you loose from dread witch.

[bean illus]

I worked on a Cloistered Dweomerkeeper once.
Cloistered3/ Church Inquisitor4/ Divine Oracle2/ Divine Agent1/ Contemplative1/ Dweomerkeeper9

Uses only one feat. 7 Domains. With Spontaneous Domains feat this greatly increases the spell access of this chassis, as well as Domain Powers or trading them for feats. BAB 10 is the same as many other casters. There's a fairly detailed build and thread here.
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12282.0;wap2