Casting Heroics is impossible without the Eschew Materials feat

[Lokiron]

The heroics spell requires a material component that is a piece of weapon or armor worn in combat by a fighter of at least 15th level. But since fighters beyond 6th level do not exist, you can never get the material component for the spell. Thus, you need the Eschew Materials feat.

:smallcool:

[LordOfCain]

Ain't that what party members are for?

[Vizzerdrix]

And this is hy every party needs a fighter. Not to be a meat shield, but as an investment in spell components.

[sleepyphoenixx]

It doesn't have a cost over 1gp, so it's in your spell component pouch.
Just like the pieces of various gods, demon lords and other powerful entities for your Simulacrum and Ice Assassin needs.:smalltongue:


Ain't that what party members are for?
Would you go adventuring with a 15th level fighter just to cast the spell?
Personally i'd rather do without and take a Crusader or Warblade. Or even better a Ruby Knight Vindicator or Jade Phoenix Mage.

Or buy an eternal wand and get the best of both worlds.

[Necroticplague]

It doesn't have a cost over 1gp, so it's in your spell component pouch.
Just like the pieces of various gods, demon lords and other powerful entities for your Simulacrum and Ice Assassin needs.:smalltongue:

Problem is, what 15th level fighter would be using a non-magic weapon? The cost of enchanting alone would put things above the 1 GP cutoff.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Problem is, what 15th level fighter would be using a non-magic weapon? The cost of enchanting alone would put things above the 1 GP cutoff.Just buy some rusty arms and armor at a discount and have the fighter fight a few alley cats or chicken-infested commoners a few times with a few different weapons and with different types of armor. Then just cut the equipment into minuscule portions and voila.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Problem is, what 15th level fighter would be using a non-magic weapon? The cost of enchanting alone would put things above the 1 GP cutoff.

It's not like you need the whole thing. How many rings are in a coat of chainmail? You only need one.

[Jowgen]

Clearly there is a sub-division of Magic Mart™ that has imprisoned a single level 15 fighter that picks up quarter staffs, hits a chicken with it, and then drops it into a wood chipper; so that each piece of wood from that quarterstaff can be the "bit of a weapon" that is found as a spell component in stores all over the planes. :smallcool:

[Deophaun]

But since fighters beyond 6th level do not exist...
I think the joke just flew past everyone.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

"15th level fighter" could just mean a 15th level character with a level in fighter.

[Thurbane]

Living Greyhawk Gazzetteer p.37 "Rary's armies are commanded by the doughty Lord Robilar (NE male human Ftr20)." :smallwink:

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Living Greyhawk Gazzetteer p.37 "Rary's armies are commanded by the doughty Lord Robilar (NE male human Ftr20)." :smallwink:All propaganda and hoodwinking. Why wouldn't he be using a magically created (and 100% loyal) clone of himself? It'd be dozens of times smarter, hundreds of times more knowledgeable and skilled, and thousands of times more powerful (or more, most likely). All it'd take would be an Extended alter self spell and a hat of disguise to pretend to be wearing armor.

There's literally no reason whatsoever that he would actually have a fighter like that...unless the fighter is actually the ice assassin of a god who was dumb enough to take 20 fighter levels for some reason. Then I could see it. Maybe.

[Deophaun]

unless the fighter is actually the ice assassin of a god who was dumb enough to take 20 fighter levels for some reason
Hey, just as there are gods of darkness and light, there are gods of knowledge (Boccob, Oghma, Ioun, Vecna) and gods of stupidity (Derp).

And my wizard with a 34 Int is convinced that the prime material is Derp's home plane.

[animewatcha]

Is there a Derp deity in a WOTC somewhere or just something from dndwiki?

[Deophaun]

Is there a Derp deity in a WOTC somewhere or just something from dndwiki?
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/derp

[StreamOfTheSky]

Just buy some rusty arms and armor at a discount and have the fighter fight a few alley cats or chicken-infested commoners a few times with a few different weapons and with different types of armor. Then just cut the equipment into minuscule portions and voila.

He doesn't have to fight with the gear. Just wear it at some point, with no minimum duration listed. The "piece" could also be extremely miniscule, such that a single leather armor the Fighter tried on in the changing room could be fodder for over 10,000 castings of Heroics. If anything doesn't make sense with the economies of scale of these components being practically free, it isn't their actual cost or rarity. It's the cost/time to shred these items down into countless tiny pieces.

If you figure they get a few copper pieces for each Heroics-usable piece (the component pouch does cost 5 gp, none of the components are expected to be literally 100% free) they produce, and you hire a warehouse of unskilled laborers that work 8 hour days for a few sp a day, I wonder how much money is left over from the profits for the 15th level Fighter to spend a few hours each week just trying on various cheap pieces of gear and taking them off? Is this a practical business enterprise?

EDIT: I'll be, it does say used in combat. I could've sworn it just said worn. Fine, so he kills a rat between changing out of his armor, bracers, boots, etc...

[LordOfCain]

Plus: NPCs of any level/class can be found in Sigil. Level 1000000 commoners exist!!1!1!1!1!1

[Lokiron]

I think the joke just flew past everyone.

Just the way I like them.

[Lokiron]

"15th level fighter" could just mean a 15th level character with a level in fighter.

You mean because it does not say "fighter level 15th", like weapon specialization?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You mean because it does not say "fighter level 15th", like weapon specialization?Just says "a fighter of at least 15th level," not "a character with at least 15 levels of the fighter class." Technically, anyone who takes an offensive role in combat could be considered a fighter, so even a wizard or sorcerer counts, technically. It's not necessarily the fighter class, after all.

The moral of the story is that "fighter" is far too generic in all possible ways for its own good.

[Lokiron]

Just says "a fighter of at least 15th level," not "a character with at least 15 levels of the fighter class." Technically, anyone who takes an offensive role in combat could be considered a fighter, so even a wizard or sorcerer counts, technically. It's not necessarily the fighter class, after all.

The moral of the story is that "fighter" is far too generic in all possible ways for its own good.

Just out of curiosity, do you find the weapon specialization prerequisites equally ambiguous?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Just out of curiosity, do you find the weapon specialization prerequisites equally ambiguous?No, because I don't care about garbage feats. Plus, it's talking about fighter levels specifically, and not fighters of a certain level.

[Troacctid]

"Fighter level 4th" is different from "4th level fighter."

[ExLibrisMortis]

Maybe there's armour specifically designed to be split into a really large number of components. Say, otter fur armour - 150 000 hairs per square centimetre - which is worn once, then shorn several times (with a 12 mm razor, 10 mm razor, 8mm razor and so on), resulting in billions of components per suit of armour.

[Jowgen]

Maybe there's armour specifically designed to be split into a really large number of components. Say, otter fur armour - 150 000 hairs per square centimetre - which is worn once, then shorn several times (with a 12 mm razor, 10 mm razor, 8mm razor and so on), resulting in billions of components per suit of armour.

Well, if we're going to that scale, then screw Magic Mart™ having their pet fighter throwing his chicken-bludgeon... I mean, quarterstaff into a woodchipper. They get ground right down to sawdust. Each spell component pouch has a little L15FtrWpn sawdust compartment that casters can simply stick their fingers into to get a light sawdust coating for their component.

[Deophaun]

Well, if we're going to that scale, then screw Magic Mart™ having their pet fighter throwing his chicken-bludgeon... I mean, quarterstaff into a woodchipper. They get ground right down to sawdust. Each spell component pouch has a little L15FtrWpn sawdust compartment that casters can simply stick their fingers into to get a light sawdust coating for their component.
I can beat that.

Riverine armor/weapons. Then hit it with a disintegrate and let the contained water flow back into the ecosystem. After a few centuries or so of the water cycle, everyone will likely have some part of the fighter's weapon in their body. No need for a pouch.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Well, if we're going to that scale, then screw Magic Mart™ having their pet fighter throwing his chicken-bludgeon... I mean, quarterstaff into a woodchipper. They get ground right down to sawdust. Each spell component pouch has a little L15FtrWpn sawdust compartment that casters can simply stick their fingers into to get a light sawdust coating for their component.
Right, so the question is, what's the highest-volume woodchipper we can find? We need this fighter to swing the largest possible quarterstaff, and the largest amount of armour (provided we can get it on and off in a fraction of time).

Say this fighter is a fighter making 10 attacks per round (+16 bab, haste, 3x TWF, Snap Kick, Rapid Shot - the last attack consists of throwing the staff at the woodchipper), and each attack counts as "using it in combat". We need the fighter to change his weapon ten times per fight. It's a move action to pick things up, but with Quick Draw, we only need to place the 'sheathed' quarterstaff on the fighter's body. Simply ten 1 HD constructs permanently equipping the fighter with staves?

If these are colossal staves (half-minotaur goliath fighter with augmented expansion), they weigh 64 lb each (4 * 24), which is a bit light, but probably acceptable. The heaviest weapon in the PHB is the 15 lb orc double axe (240 lb when colossal), which is conveniently also TWF-compatible. A hulking hurler would, naturally, be more efficient, however, even with just staves, we're getting 640 lb of components per 6 seconds, or 384 000 lb per hour.

Then, for armour, we'd want to use something chippable (otter fur still works, but regular leather is cheaper). I'm not sure how you're going to re-equip it ten times per round, though.

Edit: swordsage'd by Deophaun. I like that solution. The same works with a dead unarmed fighter, incidentally. Which neatly solves the problem of fighters above 6th level not existing, too. However, I'd still rather take water from my component pouch than from my body. Randomly consuming vital fluids is a bit too dangerous. It's hard to control, and what if the spell consumes all components you are in contact with, and all the water in you is ex-fighter? Self-dessication through environmental contamination with ex-fighters!

[Jowgen]

I think this thread has reached this point now.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5695443305f8e2374ca44cc2/t/56cabf247da24f86a79f44f2/1456127790097/

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you had a horde of invisible servants available to put quarterstaves near enough to him on their way through that he could Quick Draw the staves from them then drop 'em, he could Quick Draw, make one attack, drop the stave, and repeat the process. Then the servants could pick 'em up off the floor and throw them into a liquefier vat, which adds water to the crunched-up wood and extrudes it into an incredibly tiny droplet of wood paste, similar to Dippin' Dots, which are then portioned out and sold in mini-packets.

Better yet, make the fighter a Colossal+ dragon, with Monkey Grip, strongarm bracers, and Wield Oversized Weapon. That way, you have a quarterstaff that's effectively Colossal+++.

[Thurbane]

You'd just get the required materials from Regdar's Repository, yes?