Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them

[Tvtyrant]

I saw the movie last night, I really enjoyed it. In my opinion it was actually a lot more fun then any of the Harry Potter movies were, being in some ways both lighter and darker.

The big question I came away from the movie with was if Voldemort was going to turn out to be an obscuris, as he turns into a giant black cloud when he flies and he is famous for being the strongest (not best) wizard in history.



Also I had to run out on the last minute of the movie, anyone want to spoil the ending for me?

[Estrecca]

In regards to the spoiler thing, I think that the movie sets up the retroactive justification for that power you mention. I suspect that this plot element will be revisited in future installments of this series.

[Olinser]

It was decent but not great.

If you didn't like the previous Harry Potter movies you definitely will NOT like this movie, but at the same time it just isn't as good as the original books or movies.

A lot of the beasts are impressive, but some are definitely CGI fails. Overall they were pretty good quality though.

I give it about a 6 or 7 out of 10. Worth seeing once, but you're not missing that much if you don't see it.

The 2 major problems I had with the movie:

Graves:

He's Grindelwald? I mean seriously, that's what we're going with?

Then the way he was defeated was pretty ridiculous DXM. I mean it was extremely forced - he's busy winning against the combined might of the USA enforcers - and Newt chucks a creature at him and beats him. It was just so forced and ridiculous.

Magic President

The idea of a black woman being President of the magical Congress at the time was frankly offensive. Not because being black or a woman means that she didn't have the skills to hold the position, but the very idea that a woman, much less a BLACK woman, could hold that position of authority in the USA in the 20's is an offensive attempt to whitewash away the extreme prejudices present in that period of time. American women had just gotten the right to VOTE a mere 6 years before the story takes place, women were very much still 2nd class citizens in the USA. And being black? It was perfectly acceptable to be openly racist in the 20's. This, and quite a few other smaller things, just strikes me as revisionist history trying to gloss over how prejudiced the USA was at the time.

It just completely destroyed any immersion that you had in believing it was the 1920s.

[RossN]

Not sure why you put the Magic President part under spoilers - it isn't any sort of reveal that she is... well a she and black. Besides I think the main series established that the Wizarding World has very different cultural prejudices than the Muggle/No-Maj world. If anything the American wizards seem even more cut off from non-wizards than their British counterparts, what with their laws against marriages between the two communities.

That said I do think President Picquery had some issues:

The film seemed really unsure whether we are meant to view her as incompetent and unsympathetic (like Cornelius Fudge) or a wise and capable leader. Most of the film seemed to be pushing towards the former idea, with Picquery being completely oblivious to what Graves was doing under her nose, shooting down Tina when she has obviously come with some important news and being dependent on Newt coming up with a solution on the fly. She was actually so terrible I was convinced that Grave's speech towards the end would result in a mass defection against her. She also orders the death of Credence even though Newt and Tina seem to be able to reach him.

(Really between the death of Credence and the enforced amnesia of Jacob you'd think Newt and Tina would pretty much hate Picquery at the end, but they seem perfectly fine with her.)

[Dragonexx]

Yeah, the wizards probably don't have race or gender predjudices. The main movies have show us that their predjudices are based on bloodlines, and that might honestly just apply to magical britain, as we don't see any real trace of that here. Also, Graves being Grindelwald seemed kind out out of left field. Throughout the movie, I seriously thought he was secretly working for Grindelwald, but not actually him. Though I though Dumbledore was supposed to be the one to actually defeat him.

I was genuinely surprised that Credence was actually the obscuris, and genuinely feel sorry for him. I still wish we could have had more focus on that witch hating lady and the backround of that family/orphanage. The movie seems really indecisive on how far they want to commit with her. With names like Credence and Modesty for her kids, she's clearly christian, and obviously of the "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live" persuasion, but it really doesn't go much further than that, and I think the film suffers for trying to hide the religious abuse.

Also, kind of confused by the lack of Avada Kedavra. There was this really weird Bond villain style execution method, and I keep thinking that wouldn't it be easier to just cast the killing curse, instead of slowly lowering them into some sort of penseive/acid. Also Graves/Grindelwald seemed to like using lightning instead of just using the killing curse? The ****?

Creatures were impressive, even if they mostly turned out to be a red herring. Then Thunderbird ex Machina!

Also, is it strange that the wizards of 1920s US seem more modern than the wizards if 90s Britain? Maybe it's because they don't wear robes and wizard hats, and seem to fit in more with the era...

Overall, 7/10. Would see again if given the chance.

[Eldan]

I will just never be able to take anyone called Grindelwald seriously.

[Murk]

I quite liked the movie. It's ambiance and environment and silliness reminded me of the first movies and books, from before someone decided this ridiculous world needed a serious plot.
As such, my only major gripe was that they felt the movie needed a villain. Why, exactly? What would have been the problem with Newt looking and caring for beasts, facing prejudice against the beasts, and having to cope with changing times and situations? That would have been fine by me - there being a villain, especially one who again wanted to kill muggles, eh, that just made it less interesting to me.
However, aside from that, solid movie. I might actually want to see this again in the future.


Also, kind of confused by the lack of Avada Kedavra. There was this really weird Bond villain style execution method, and I keep thinking that wouldn't it be easier to just cast the killing curse, instead of slowly lowering them into some sort of penseive/acid. Also Graves/Grindelwald seemed to like using lightning instead of just using the killing curse? The ****?
This I liked. The way avada kedavra became commonplace in the later books of the series always annoyed me. It was supposed to be a very hard, very secret curse. Also, being impossible to resist or block or survive, the only way fights could actually take place (and not turn into a "the first one to cast wins" thing) was if the vast majority of people just couldn't cast the spell. It was supposed to be this mystical, terrifying spell that only a select few could handle.
So, yes, ministry workers not knowing it made sense to me. Even Grindelwald having a few spells he preferred more was alright.

[Estrecca]

This I liked. The way avada kedavra became commonplace in the later books of the series always annoyed me. It was supposed to be a very hard, very secret curse. Also, being impossible to resist or block or survive, the only way fights could actually take place (and not turn into a "the first one to cast wins" thing) was if the vast majority of people just couldn't cast the spell.

The Killing Curse as described in the books was never particularly secret, but according to the rantings of Bellatrix Lestrange (who is crazy but definitely knows her stuff) requires murderous intent.

Since Grindlewald apparently considered his cover identity as a law enforcement officer to have some value and we can assume that the Killing Curse is no more legal in America than it is in the UK, him not using AK makes sense. Particularly, in the scene in which he duels the Aurors, keeping things non lethal presumably helps keep the Aurors from going full lethal against the person they think is their boss.

[Murk]

The Killing Curse as described in the books was never particularly secret, but according to the rantings of Bellatrix Lestrange (who is crazy but definitely knows her stuff) requires murderous intent.

Since Grindlewald apparently considered his cover identity as a law enforcement officer to have some value and we can assume that the Killing Curse is no more legal in America than it is in the UK, him not using AK makes sense. Particularly, in the scene in which he duels the Aurors, keeping things non lethal presumably helps keep the Aurors from going full lethal against the person they think is their boss.

Right, "secret" may have been the wrong wording, but at least in the UK, it isn't taught. I'd assume most normal, righteous people never learn how to cast it.
Anyway, your explanation makes plenty sense too, so I'll go with that :)

[Olinser]

The Killing Curse as described in the books was never particularly secret, but according to the rantings of Bellatrix Lestrange (who is crazy but definitely knows her stuff) requires murderous intent.

Since Grindlewald apparently considered his cover identity as a law enforcement officer to have some value and we can assume that the Killing Curse is no more legal in America than it is in the UK, him not using AK makes sense. Particularly, in the scene in which he duels the Aurors, keeping things non lethal presumably helps keep the Aurors from going full lethal against the person they think is their boss.

More than just that. Avada Kedavra just isn't that great of a combat curse compared to a lot of other spells we've seen. Its hard to learn, only kills a single target, has to directly strike them to work, and has such a small area of impact that its pretty useless at anything other than close range.

A number of other spells we've seen can disable multiple combatants, have significantly longer accurate range, or can disable/kill even if they don't hit their target directly.

[Kato]

In short: Decent movie. Could have used some improvements but I don't regret seeing it.

I'll use spoilers, just in case...

My initial reaction to Miss President was also "NO". But... giving it some thought I'm not that hard on the political angle... I mean, it's clearly a political move to put her there. But considering how strictly the wizards distance themselves from the no-majs (sorry, but that's just a silly word) I can understand it a bit. Especially if the wizards have bigger issues and just don't care about these things. And they don't want to introduce racism and sexism into their community by dealing with normals.
Otherwise I think she was fine... neither totally bad nor very good at her job. From her POV I guess her actions made sense... mostly.

The main conflict story was also okay but felt a bit shoehorned in... like we didn't really need the whole Grindelwald and Credence bit (also, Grindelwald, you look for the most powerful wizard and then you think he has no magic? Wow, that deserves an award). We could have just had the creatures and have one that is more dangerous or something, maybe even proving not all of them are that harmless? Okay, harmless is relative.

The creatures were fine for the most part but... why include a prophetic, invisible creature and then not make it really relevant? Like, that prophetic bit was totally pointless, wasn't it?
CGI I guess was rather obvious but I don't really mind that.

So... possibly my biggest beef... Our main actors. So, I'm not saying Newt or Tina played poor characters (except Redmayne could have slurred his lines a bit less) but... god, did I NOT care for them. I get it, Newt is socially inept and much better at dealing with animals than with people, that worked well. But almost every interaction with people made him rather unlikable. Yes, it was kind of the point, but it was done too well. And Tina... frankly, I felt the movie could have been esily done without her.
Jacob and Tina's sister... uhm... Queenie. Queenie? Wow, what a name... anyway, I much more cared for them than for the main couple. (btw, did Newt and Tina hook up in the end or did they actually stay away from that clichee?)


As for the AK... eh, I don't care. There are many ways to kill without breaking an old law. I don't get why AK has such importance, anyway. It feels much more like an ideologic thing than something actually overly practical. Then again, Rowling probably just thouhgt the killing curse was cool.

[Landis963]

I'll use spoilers, just in case...

(btw, did Newt and Tina hook up in the end or did they actually stay away from that clichee?)



They did not, however, the original textbook mentions that Tina is Newt's wife. So not yet, but they will.

[Ruslan]

The 2 major problems I had with the movie:

<snip problem the first>

Magic President

The idea of a black woman being President of the magical Congress at the time was frankly offensive. Not because being black or a woman means that she didn't have the skills to hold the position, but the very idea that a woman, much less a BLACK woman, could hold that position of authority in the USA in the 20's is an offensive attempt to whitewash away the extreme prejudices present in that period of time. American women had just gotten the right to VOTE a mere 6 years before the story takes place, women were very much still 2nd class citizens in the USA. And being black? It was perfectly acceptable to be openly racist in the 20's. This, and quite a few other smaller things, just strikes me as revisionist history trying to gloss over how prejudiced the USA was at the time.

It just completely destroyed any immersion that you had in believing it was the 1920s.
It's the magical Congress. Not the regular US congress. The Wizards completely don't care about the social norms that the rest of American no-maj's live or lived by at the time. They can have a black, red, or purple president if they choose.

Also, LOL at a movie filled with fantastic creatures and magical spells and an Internet comment expresses outrage at what? That's right, a black woman in a position of power "ruining his immersion"! Man, that's such an Internet cliche ...

[Kato]

Also, LOL at a movie filled with fantastic creatures and magical spells and an Internet comment expresses outrage at what? That's right, a black woman in a position of power "ruining his immersion"! Man, that's such an Internet cliche ...

Now you're being unfair. Don't pretend you cannot see where he is coming from with his argument... Well, I hope you're pretending.

Also, something I forgot : no offense to Redmayne but pretty much any time he was on screen I was thinking : you know who would be good in that role? Matt Smith. That movie could have used some 11th Doctor..

[Ruslan]

Now you're being unfair. Don't pretend you cannot see where he is coming from with his argument... Well, I hope you're pretending.

No, I'm being completely fair, and I am not pretending. First, the logic of his argument is completely wrong, I responded to that in the first paragraph of my previous post [which you chose not to quote :smalltongue:]. Once we established the argument is wrong and debunked it, we can make a wee bit of fun at how and why he even went that way.

[Starbuck_II]

I loved giggle water (after all alcohol's reason is drunk it affects ones mind, why not a magic one).

Obscurist or whatever called,
So bad idea to not cast spells no wonder they let kids cast all those spells at Hogwarts, etc. Don't want them exploding into a creature.
It isn't not being taught but suppression.

[ryuplaneswalker]

It's the magical Congress. Not the regular US congress. The Wizards completely don't care about the social norms that the rest of American no-maj's live or lived by at the time. They can have a black, red, or purple president if they choose.

Yes because the Wizarding world has shown itself to be totally progressive and not at all a bunch of Bigoted dirtbags, they totally eliminated bigotry by the year 2000.

Oh wait, no no they didn't. The Wizarding world is at best a mixed bag when it comes to being "progressive" in some areas they are better, in some areas they are worse, almost like they are a real society.

[Olinser]

No, I'm being completely fair, and I am not pretending. First, the logic of his argument is completely wrong, I responded to that in the first paragraph of my previous post [which you chose not to quote :smalltongue:]. Once we established the argument is wrong and debunked it, we can make a wee bit of fun at how and why he even went that way.

Nothing is 'wrong' or 'debunked'. You certainly haven't provided any counter argument other than vague hand-waving about them being separate. But they AREN'T separate. If they ran around in robes and whatnot I might buy it. But they're wearing period clothes and shown moving among and interacting with normal people all throughout the movie. And we're supposed to believe they are somehow immune to the prejudices of the time... because... well nobody even bothered to explain it.

They made a movie in the 1920s. I'm not asking for a movie including rampant racism/sexism, but putting in a black female leader in the US in the 20's makes you VERY aware that its just a bunch of people running around in costumes.

Frankly the whole bit about them being completely cut off from 'no-maj's' makes zero sense. So you don't want any contact with non-magical people because you don't want them to be scared of you and possibly cause conflict. OK, fine, I can buy that. But you accomplish this separation by having your government located in the middle of one of the most heavily populated non-magical cities in the world? It just makes no sense. If they're that afraid of exposure and conflict they should have been living well outside any heavily populated city.

[Ceralune]

I saw it this past weekend o: I'm a pretty big fan of the franchise, so I thoroughly enjoyed it.


- It was visually so pretty *w*
- I really liked how they included a lot of the familiar spells that fans of the franchise know, but the focus was still on the beasts and Scamander's knowledge of their abilities.
- It definitely felt like I was still in J.K. Rowling's world and not reading/watching some horrible twisted fanfiction (*coughcursedchild*)
- Queenie is awesome.
- Obvious, but Newt is awesome.
- The Niffler was actually my favorite.


- Isn't Grindelwald supposed to be like, pretty handsome? Why did they make him look so... ehhh?
- Also what is Grindelwald doing in America disguised as a prominent figure in MACUSA's government? Wouldn't that mean he had to be there for quite some time? Wasn't he getting up to shenanigans in Europe at this point?
- What happens to Credence's sister? She seemed to have magic too, I thought.
- Dang, Madame President is savage. And cold. I didn't like her much, actually. Nothing to do with race, mostly just her being really unreasonable with Tina ("Why didn't you tell us this 24 hours ago when I was cutting you off repeatedly and telling you to stop talking?!")

[Ruslan]

Nothing is 'wrong' or 'debunked'. You certainly haven't provided any counter argument other than vague hand-waving about them being separate. But they AREN'T separate. If they ran around in robes and whatnot I might buy it. But they're wearing period clothes and shown moving among and interacting with normal people all throughout the movie. And we're supposed to believe they are somehow immune to the prejudices of the time... because... well nobody even bothered to explain it.

They are shown to completely disrespect the no-maj's and their customs, mkay?

So, here's the deal. The statement "in the 1920's US, a black woman could not rise to a position of power" is reasonable. On the other hand, the statement "in a fictional magical society which is hidden from the rest of the world and does not really respect the customs of the rest of the world, I'm just going to go ahead and assume a black woman could not rise to a position of power" is prejudiced.

If you can't see the difference here, I feel bad for you, son.

[Dire Moose]

The first thing that comes to mind is an interesting bit of continuity with the books. If I remember correctly from Deathly Hallows, Grindelwald had managed to rope Dumbledore into some kind of plan for attaining ultimate magic power and ruling the world with it, and somehow Albus's younger sister Ariana was supposed to be a part of this plan before something went horribly wrong and she ended up dying.

This movie makes it fairly clear what was going on with Ariana in retrospect, and why Grindelwald was doing what he did with Credence here.

[Estrecca]

The first thing that comes to mind is an interesting bit of continuity with the books. If I remember correctly from Deathly Hallows, Grindelwald had managed to rope Dumbledore into some kind of plan for attaining ultimate magic power and ruling the world with it, and somehow Albus's younger sister Ariana was supposed to be a part of this plan before something went horribly wrong and she ended up dying.

No.

Dumbledore and Grindlewald were both too busy having big dreams, for Albus to devote the proper energy to the time consuming task of taking care of his sister, who aside from lack of control over her magic was limited in her ability to take care of herself.

Things went wrong when Aberforth Dumbledore showed up and told Albus that he was being a right ****head. This lead to Gellert using Crucio on Aberforth and Albus trying to stop Gellert, only for things to turn into a brawl that Arianna tried to stop. She got killed instead and none of them know who did the deed, but while the Dumbledore brothers were horrified Grindlewald ran away while the going was good.

[ryuplaneswalker]

They are shown to completely disrespect the no-maj's and their customs, mkay?

So, here's the deal. The statement "in the 1920's US, a black woman could not rise to a position of power" is reasonable. On the other hand, the statement "in a fictional magical society which is hidden from the rest of the world and does not really respect the customs of the rest of the world, I'm just going to go ahead and assume a black woman could not rise to a position of power" is prejudiced.

If you can't see the difference here, I feel bad for you, son.

That would be a somewhat reasonable assumption if the way that the wizarding world acts when it comes to prejudices did not change from page to page. I was going to put in "when it comes to prejudices" however I realized that The Wizarding World has no real cohesion in how they act.

[Dire Moose]

No.

Dumbledore and Grindlewald were both too busy having big dreams, for Albus to devote the proper energy to the time consuming task of taking care of his sister, who aside from lack of control over her magic was limited in her ability to take care of herself.

Things went wrong when Aberforth Dumbledore showed up and told Albus that he was being a right ****head. This lead to Gellert using Crucio on Aberforth and Albus trying to stop Gellert, only for things to turn into a brawl that Arianna tried to stop. She got killed instead and none of them know who did the deed, but while the Dumbledore brothers were horrified Grindlewald ran away while the going was good.

Ah, ok. It's been a while since I read that book.

[Hopeless]

Was I the only one who expected a cameo of a younger Dumbledore in this movie?:smallredface:

[Bowerbird]

No.

Dumbledore and Grindlewald were both too busy having big dreams, for Albus to devote the proper energy to the time consuming task of taking care of his sister, who aside from lack of control over her magic was limited in her ability to take care of herself.

Things went wrong when Aberforth Dumbledore showed up and told Albus that he was being a right ****head. This lead to Gellert using Crucio on Aberforth and Albus trying to stop Gellert, only for things to turn into a brawl that Arianna tried to stop. She got killed instead and none of them know who did the deed, but while the Dumbledore brothers were horrified Grindlewald ran away while the going was good.

To be fair, the details of her condition were a bit vague. Through trauma the sister had lost the ability to control her magic, and it occasionally came out in powerful uncontrolled bursts, so she needed looking after to manage her condition, which sounds a lot like what we saw in the movie. I think they were hinting that this was what had happened to her, and possibly where Grindelwald first saw what an Obscurial(?) did, though I doubt he realised until it was too late in the case of Dumbledore's sister.

[Ceralune]

Was I the only one who expected a cameo of a younger Dumbledore in this movie?:smallredface:

I think we can expect that to happen sometime in the other four movies.

[Starbuck_II]

To be fair, the details of her condition were a bit vague. Through trauma the sister had lost the ability to control her magic, and it occasionally came out in powerful uncontrolled bursts, so she needed looking after to manage her condition, which sounds a lot like what we saw in the movie. I think they were hinting that this was what had happened to her, and possibly where Grindelwald first saw what an Obscurial(?) did, though I doubt he realised until it was too late in the case of Dumbledore's sister.

But it

It wasn't lost of control, but lack of casting. Suppression causes Obscurial, not lack of control. So if she lost ability to cast spells, I can totally see a link.
But does that mean if a wizard fails to cast 1/year (or whatever number) he'd explode too?
Hate to be a poor kid with broke his wand (and parents won't replace, luckily Weasley had his fixed). Kid will be a ticking time bomb.

[Olinser]

They are shown to completely disrespect the no-maj's and their customs, mkay?

So, here's the deal. The statement "in the 1920's US, a black woman could not rise to a position of power" is reasonable. On the other hand, the statement "in a fictional magical society which is hidden from the rest of the world and does not really respect the customs of the rest of the world, I'm just going to go ahead and assume a black woman could not rise to a position of power" is prejudiced.

If you can't see the difference here, I feel bad for you, son.

Well, 'son', I feel bad that you can't even phrase your own argument clearly.

Racism isn't some local 'custom' that people happened to observe. It was world-wide. The only real difference between countries was what race was on top and what was on the bottom (although unfortunately blacks were almost universally at the bottom).

Seriously. This isn't some kind of mild rudeness or disdain that somebody is a different color. This is the US in the 1920s. When Coolidge literally could not even get anti-lynching laws passed through Congress.

Wizards might be hidden, but they're not separate. Once again, if they were running around wearing robes or being totally ignorant of Muggles daily lives the way a huge amount of wizards in Britain were shown to, I might buy it.

Instead they are running around in time-appropriate clothes, are shown living among no-majs, and they interact with no-majs on a daily basis. They would be exposed to their racism on a daily basis. And they're supposed to be immune to the prejudices that they demonstrate because... REASONS!

You have literally no counter-argument other than a vague hand-waving about them being somehow immune to the rampant prejudices demonstrated across the world. Which is what the movie did - and it's just lazy and a huge disservice to gloss over the prejudices that society demonstrated at the time.

[Dragonexx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0

Every society has it's predjudices. Considering that there are actual intelligent non-human creatures (centaurs, house elves, goblins) it makes perfect sense that wizards wouldn't judge people by different levels of melanin. Also, considering that wizards of the US have even less association with muggles no majs (seriously, wearing similar clothes doesn't mean accepting their predjudices) it makes perfect sense that they wouldn't be racist.

[Bowerbird]

But it

It wasn't lost of control, but lack of casting. Suppression causes Obscurial, not lack of control. So if she lost ability to cast spells, I can totally see a link.
But does that mean if a wizard fails to cast 1/year (or whatever number) he'd explode too?
Hate to be a poor kid with broke his wand (and parents won't replace, luckily Weasley had his fixed). Kid will be a ticking time bomb.


I think it's not a lack of casting, but actively suppressing your magic. Most young witches and wizards do magic without thinking, it's how they tell you have magic. Obscurials seem to happen when a magical child develops some kind of psychological block. In the examples from the movie, they are actively punished for outbursts of magic until they subconsciously suppress it, and it builds up with all the negative emotion until it explodes out in an Obscuris. Dumbledore's sister was attacked by Muggles at a young age for using her magic, and ever since she had problems using it, and it came out in violent uncontrolled bursts, which sounds like the same sort of thing. Bearing in mind we only get Aberforth's recounting of it, and I think he's likely to have toned down what was wrong with her as well. Just being deprived of a wand and not allowed to use magic won't do it, otherwise every time you see a kid expelled from school this sort of thing would happen.

[Estrecca]

Wizards might be hidden, but they're not separate.

No, they are separate.

To a much greater degree than Wizarding Britain in the 90s, as a matter of fact.

[Silver Swift]

For me the movie really brought home how awful the statute of secrecy is. We now have three people with friends and family in the muggle world dying on camera, plus however many died in the obscura rampage, whose loved ones will never know what happened to them. Granted, two of those probably didn't have many loved ones left, but the third was a US senator.

[miner3203]

Saw it a little while ago an just found this thread--I wanted to drop in and say that it was amazing. I really liked the beasts and Newt (in all his socially-awkward glory). Jacob...was good, but with all the hype about how we was going to become "the star of the show" and all that...nah. Solid character, but not the show-stealer I was half-expecting.

Also, I really, really want a niffler. I mean, I thought they were cute after Goblet of Fire, but now they're even better...

[Psyren]

Saw it. I didn't hate it - the period worldbuilding was great, and I enjoyed the cast too - but I do have some serious problems with aspects of this movie's setting, especially the outright evil and incompetence of the MACUSA.

Spoilers in case:

Like, I get that they are afraid both of Grindelwald's reign of terror and of being exposed to persecution by the American Muggles No-Majs. After all, it apparently happened before, though I will note that neither the books nor movies really explain how (after all, the real Salem Witch Trials presumably didn't involve true metahuman persecution, or if they did know any magic, it was nothing at all like what Potterverse casters are capable of. You expect me to believe the muggles would have won that war, when they can't even interact with much less disrupt their enemies' supply lines or troop placement? Numbers can only take you so far.)

Anyway, let's just accept that for now. With the mages being as afraid as they are, some harsh or austere measures could be understandable. So Newt's arrival in NY coinciding with the Plot-Demon's appearance is definitely at least worth looking into. But upon capturing him, the MACUSA proceeds to:

- Arrest all three of them on threadbare charges.
- Interrogate them with no due process (speaking of which, don't get me started on the sheer idiocy of a law enforcement agency having a freaking telepath on their payroll, and only using her to get coffee. And you can't even claim it's the discrimination of the time period, because they have a black woman as their President in the 1920s, so clearly they're just idiots in this case.)
- Sentence them to death immediately with no trial.

Then we have the execution itself. No, it's not evil and stupid enough that we're going to kill you with no due process. Let's do it by dipping you in acid. Oh, still not evil and stupid enough? How about we pull your memories out into the acid, so you want to jump into the acid yourself!

I couldn't bloody believe what I was watching at that point. You can't even blame all of that on Grindelwald - ordering the execution, maybe, but can one person really do that with no checks and balances? Plus which, it looked like a standard Ministry execution to me, and you can't tell me he Imperiused every last one of those government employees and Aurors to help him out. So it was just business as usual for them.

I mean, is it crueler than locking you up in a soul-sucking prison until you lose your mind? Probably not, but it sure comes close. Are we really supposed to be rooting for the magical world here?

And let's not forget their incongruous miscegenation laws, how easily two guys (Newt and Grin) could thwart their entire agency, how they have absolutely no plan in place to memory-wipe a large number of people (come on, even the Men In Black planned for that! And what about Time-Turners?) etc.

[Hopeless]

What wasn't explained

Please note it does say SPOILERS!
1) How long Grindelward had been posing as Graves?
2) Given the backdrop there had to be plenty of Obscuras given the active campaign against wizards and we're talking someone trying to actively seek them out for gods sake!
3) That mind wipe isn't going to erase the death of a US Senator so are they going to claim the killer was slain in the underground system?
4) Wouldn't they have files on anyone entering the country especially wizards and people there to meet them and explain the rules and regulations?
5) Sounded more like the heroine was deliberately kicked out of the Aurors for being competent and a threat to Graves so why wasn't she eliminated at the first opportunity?
Maybe he hoped to recruit her since she seemed to have led him to his contact in that anti-witch haven?
6) Swapped bags and neither realised they wasn't carrying their own?
Newt didn't tag his bag in case he lost it?
7) Was there any Native American Indians present in that council?
8) You've got a telepath with a serious crush on a muggle and you only obviate the muggle?
Huh... sounds like mind wiping muggles isn't far enough for MACUSA to do their job?!

And yes odd plot point!

[TheFamilarRaven]

I saw it. Didn't like it in the slightest. Even my friend who saw it with me and loves the potterverse didn't like it.



I'l admit it's been like a 2 weeks since I've seen it, so most of the specifics escape me. (I like being specific about what I disliked so I don't sound like some angry loser :smalltongue:)

The movie seemed to have 2 separate plotlines going on at the same time.

1: Newt has to recover magical beasts, which is made more difficult by government interference
2: Graves/Grindolwald trying to find the source of the obscuris to profit(???)

The whole movie felt very disjointed. One moment they're tracking creatures, the next they have to deal with MACUSA. Cut to the creepy cult that has NO BEARING WHAT-SO-EVER with what our protagonist is doing. Back to tracking beasts and repeat. Not to mention they had NO TROUBLE FINDING ANY OF THE BEASTS, and despite this. No normal person in the entirety of New York witnessed these things. (That might be forgivable, because I vaguely remember something about non-magical persons not being able to see magical creatures ...) Wait-a-minute! The no-maj character saw them just fine! Then the ending attempted to unite both story lines but just ends up as something that comes out of left field.


I couldn't relate to any of the characters at all. They all seemed to be monotone with no personality. We had:

-Newt, the guy who knows things and is anti-social. We're care about him because ... he's the protagonist?
-Tina, the incompetent government agent who can't do her job and helps Newt because ... plot.
-Jacob(?), the non-magical character who is brought along with the magicians just because. (Seriously)
-Queenie, a mind reader who was much less useful than she could have been

and scores of characters that seemed to act either idiotically or just straight up unprofessional.


The magic was, not magical in the slightest. All of the cool and inventive things they could do with a magical battle is replaced by wizards shooting generic bolts of energy from their wand. Essentially just replacing guns with wands.



Some specific things that annoyed me about the plot.

-Why couldn't Newt apparate passed customs? Don't tell me it's because he needs to know where he's going, because he clearly apparates from a bank to an alleyway in a city he's never been to before! Too many people will see him? Okay, maybe, but there's no place to hide? Or a magic spell to hide himself? There no transportation service for the magical community between continents? Sheesh!

-How come in a world where magic allows someone to literally change their appearance to anyone they want, is there no device or spell that can detect these sort of things? Grindolwald is able to disguise himself as Graves and infiltrate MACUSA because no wizard ever thought that someone might try that? There a freaking mind reader on staff!

-No one other than he main characters has any significant interaction with the escaped creatures, despite them being out and about over night.

-Credence (or the obscuris) kills a prominent official in the US government because plot? Honestly, I can't remember if that was ever explained so I might strike it from my list if there was actually a relation between the senator and the obscuris' agenda.

-Revealing Credence to be the source of the obscuris rather than Modesty as a plot twist was more meh, than anything. I had no reason to care about them in the first place so way should I care about that?

-Why do the MACUSA agents have to take Jacob away before obliviating him? Just apparate him outside and cast the charm! Oh wait, we need a reason for Queenie to save the day!

-Deus Ex Thunderbird!

There's probably more I could come up with on a second viewing but I'd rather not watch the movie again.



I won't say to much about the action, because I thought the whole movie was a little dark to actually see what the hell was going on. But I saw it at a drive-in theater so I'll hold off on that.



Coming out of the theater, I believe I coined the phrase "Pulling a George Lucas". In which someone who created a wildly successful franchise, is given no checks and balances when it comes to future projects. Producers just assume that whatever the author writes will be gold.

Like, the 1st 3 Star Wars films were great. But there's very few people who will tell you that the prequels are decent (not even good, just decent).

The movie should have been called: Newt and the Accidentally Misplaced Magical Beasts. Not as catching but far more accurate.

[comicshorse]

I saw it. Didn't like it in the slightest. Even my friend who saw it with me and loves the potterverse didn't like it.




-Credence (or the obscuris) kills a prominent official in the US government because plot? Honestly, I can't remember if that was ever explained so I might strike it from my list if there was actually a relation between the senator and the obscuris' agenda.


I assumed that was because the Obscuris is connected to Credence and shares his feelings and Credeence has good reason to hate the Senator after the vicious way he insulted Credence and his family when they met at his father's newspaper

[Gray Mage]

I saw it. Didn't like it in the slightest. Even my friend who saw it with me and loves the potterverse didn't like it.



I'l admit it's been like a 2 weeks since I've seen it, so most of the specifics escape me. (I like being specific about what I disliked so I don't sound like some angry loser :smalltongue:)

The movie seemed to have 2 separate plotlines going on at the same time.

1: Newt has to recover magical beasts, which is made more difficult by government interference
2: Graves/Grindolwald trying to find the source of the obscuris to profit(???)

The whole movie felt very disjointed. One moment they're tracking creatures, the next they have to deal with MACUSA. Cut to the creepy cult that has NO BEARING WHAT-SO-EVER with what our protagonist is doing. Back to tracking beasts and repeat. Not to mention they had NO TROUBLE FINDING ANY OF THE BEASTS, and despite this. No normal person in the entirety of New York witnessed these things. (That might be forgivable, because I vaguely remember something about non-magical persons not being able to see magical creatures ...) Wait-a-minute! The no-maj character saw them just fine! Then the ending attempted to unite both story lines but just ends up as something that comes out of left field.


I couldn't relate to any of the characters at all. They all seemed to be monotone with no personality. We had:

-Newt, the guy who knows things and is anti-social. We're care about him because ... he's the protagonist?
-Tina, the incompetent government agent who can't do her job and helps Newt because ... plot.
-Jacob(?), the non-magical character who is brought along with the magicians just because. (Seriously)
-Queenie, a mind reader who was much less useful than she could have been

and scores of characters that seemed to act either idiotically or just straight up unprofessional.


The magic was, not magical in the slightest. All of the cool and inventive things they could do with a magical battle is replaced by wizards shooting generic bolts of energy from their wand. Essentially just replacing guns with wands.



Some specific things that annoyed me about the plot.

-Why couldn't Newt apparate passed customs? Don't tell me it's because he needs to know where he's going, because he clearly apparates from a bank to an alleyway in a city he's never been to before! Too many people will see him? Okay, maybe, but there's no place to hide? Or a magic spell to hide himself? There no transportation service for the magical community between continents? Sheesh!

-How come in a world where magic allows someone to literally change their appearance to anyone they want, is there no device or spell that can detect these sort of things? Grindolwald is able to disguise himself as Graves and infiltrate MACUSA because no wizard ever thought that someone might try that? There a freaking mind reader on staff!

-No one other than he main characters has any significant interaction with the escaped creatures, despite them being out and about over night.

-Credence (or the obscuris) kills a prominent official in the US government because plot? Honestly, I can't remember if that was ever explained so I might strike it from my list if there was actually a relation between the senator and the obscuris' agenda.

-Revealing Credence to be the source of the obscuris rather than Modesty as a plot twist was more meh, than anything. I had no reason to care about them in the first place so way should I care about that?

-Why do the MACUSA agents have to take Jacob away before obliviating him? Just apparate him outside and cast the charm! Oh wait, we need a reason for Queenie to save the day!

-Deus Ex Thunderbird!

There's probably more I could come up with on a second viewing but I'd rather not watch the movie again.



I won't say to much about the action, because I thought the whole movie was a little dark to actually see what the hell was going on. But I saw it at a drive-in theater so I'll hold off on that.



Coming out of the theater, I believe I coined the phrase "Pulling a George Lucas". In which someone who created a wildly successful franchise, is given no checks and balances when it comes to future projects. Producers just assume that whatever the author writes will be gold.

Like, the 1st 3 Star Wars films were great. But there's very few people who will tell you that the prequels are decent (not even good, just decent).

The movie should have been called: Newt and the Accidentally Misplaced Magical Beasts. Not as catching but far more accurate.


Some counter-points:
I think Newt couldn't apparate past customs firstly because he doesn't want to enter the country illegally. If things had gone as he planned he'd lay low and not draw attention and being in the country illegally would have made his objective hard to accomplish. Also, so far no one has apparated such great distances and we know that there are ways of blocking apparation.

The senator humiliated/called him a freak in the newspaper's office, so I'd say simple revenge.

The thunderbird was not a Deus Ex Machina, all elements were setup before. :smallconfused:

As for Queenie, I don't think other wizards know she's a telepath (the guy that was escorting Jacob didn't seem to know how she knew he was having an affair). While having one on staff would have its uses, it is also a security risk on everything she doesn't have clearense of and a potential spy.

[hamishspence]

As for Queenie, I don't think other wizards know she's a telepath (the guy that was escorting Jacob didn't seem to know how she knew he was having an affair). While having one on staff would have its uses, it is also a security risk on everything she doesn't have clearense of and a potential spy.

Legilimency has been brought up before - Snape and Voldemort were both good at it, though perhaps not that good.
Without actually using the word itself, it's more "know when someone's lying" than "read mind" which, as Snape says, is something of a misnomer.

Could it be a case of her having wand in hand at all times and is using non-verbal variant on the Legilimens "probe" function - so more subtly and without the victim realising that she was seeing in, until she says something?

[Psyren]

The thunderbird was not a Deus Ex Machina, all elements were setup before. :smallconfused:


What? No they weren't. Specifically:

Where in the movie do they discuss its ability to deliver a metropolis-wide memory-wiping payload via thunderstorm? Where do they mention that Obliviate can even be transmitted that way, or that that tiny vial was sufficient to get all of New York? How were indoor muggles affected? Why weren't the mages affected? And is it just flying off from NY to Arizona now?




As for Queenie, I don't think other wizards know she's a telepath (the guy that was escorting Jacob didn't seem to know how she knew he was having an affair). While having one on staff would have its uses, it is also a security risk on everything she doesn't have clearense of and a potential spy.

Look, with someone like that, you either give them clearance or you don't allow them within 100 yards of a high-security government office. There is no in-between, at least not one that makes any kind of sense.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Where in the movie do they discuss its ability to deliver a metropolis-wide memory-wiping payload via thunderstorm? Where do they mention that Obliviate can even be transmitted that way, or that that tiny vial was sufficient to get all of New York? How were indoor muggles affected? Why weren't the mages affected? And is it just flying off from NY to Arizona now?

When Newt takes Jacob down into his trunk and shows him the Swooping Evil, he mentions that its venom causes brain damage or something like that but that if highly diluted it could be used to impose short-term memory loss instead, and at the same time he mentions that muggles and wizards have different physiologies so many magical substances affect the two groups differently. Sure, it's a bit of a stretch that "highly diluted" means "diluted in a whole thunderstorm's worth of water," but going into any more detail would likely have telegraphed the ending, so it doesn't bother me too much.

Muggles indoors being affected wasn't explained at all, though, and that did annoy me. I assume from that one couple in the bathroom who looked like they were being affected that we're supposed to infer that the whole city's water supply was infused with the venom and they were affected that way, but that wasn't explicit. One could also assume that everyone in the damaged buildings was exposed to the water because of all the holes in the roofs and no one who was in undamaged buildings was close enough to need obliviation, but again, that's inference, not explanation.

[miner3203]

When Newt takes Jacob down into his trunk and shows him the Swooping Evil, he mentions that its venom causes brain damage or something like that but that if highly diluted it could be used to impose short-term memory loss instead, and at the same time he mentions that muggles and wizards have different physiologies so many magical substances affect the two groups differently. Sure, it's a bit of a stretch that "highly diluted" means "diluted in a whole thunderstorm's worth of water," but going into any more detail would likely have telegraphed the ending, so it doesn't bother me too much.

Muggles indoors being affected wasn't explained at all, though, and that did annoy me. I assume from that one couple in the bathroom who looked like they were being affected that we're supposed to infer that the whole city's water supply was infused with the venom and they were affected that way, but that wasn't explicit. One could also assume that everyone in the damaged buildings was exposed to the water because of all the holes in the roofs and no one who was in undamaged buildings was close enough to need obliviation, but again, that's inference, not explanation.

Well, keep in mind that the thunderstorm happened almost directly following the events with the Obscurus. The number of muggles that managed to get indoors in the interim would probably be pretty small (maybe two dozen at most), and they may have just dismissed it as a bad dream (since all of the effects have been repaired, etc). If they did attempt to start exposing the wizarding world, they would probably be seen as conspiracy theorists (again, since everything was repaired and most people have no memory of what happened) and ignored, similar to the Second Salemers.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Well, keep in mind that the thunderstorm happened almost directly following the events with the Obscurus. The number of muggles that managed to get indoors in the interim would probably be pretty small (maybe two dozen at most), and they may have just dismissed it as a bad dream (since all of the effects have been repaired, etc). If they did attempt to start exposing the wizarding world, they would probably be seen as conspiracy theorists (again, since everything was repaired and most people have no memory of what happened) and ignored, similar to the Second Salemers.

Granted, everyone who had been physically present probably hadn't gotten back inside at that point, so they're not a problem. It's just that the movie went out of its way to show people inside who obviously weren't present at the time being obliviated, which creates a bit of a plot hole for the reasons mentioned, whereas if they had just cut that whole sequence we could assume it only affected people outside and there wouldn't be an issue.

[lord_khaine]

Spoiler: MACUSA Idiocy


Could no at agree more on these specific points. My own personal conclusion were that the magical world of America is a horribly dystopia suffering under a despotic gouverment.

[Dragonexx]

So like the rest of harry potter then.

[Psyren]

Could no at agree more on these specific points. My own personal conclusion were that the magical world of America is a horribly dystopia suffering under a despotic gouverment.

I can only imagine how much dumber/eviller they got under Voldemort's reign, since he was so much worse than Grindelwald and had so many more supporters.


So like the rest of harry potter then.

The Ministry is indeed bad too but MACUSA is on another level of stupid. At least the Ministry is able to detect when kids are using magic, if only to enroll them in school.

[Legato Endless]

Look, with someone like that, you either give them clearance or you don't allow them within 100 yards of a high-security government office. There is no in-between, at least not one that makes any kind of sense.

To be fair, this is the same government which apparently lacks a screening process to prevent a demoted Auror from dragging a suspected criminal into a meeting with the President.

[Douglas]

Fridge Logic aside, I thought this movie was fun but felt poorly focused. You have the escaped magical beasts plot, and the Grindelwald plot, and they mostly don't (visibly) interact with each other, and end up colliding through pure coincidence. It's like two movies mashed together into one, and they clash horribly in tone and disrupt each others' execution. And the one that gets the most screen time doesn't have much in the way of a satisfying story arc with climax and resolution.

[lord_khaine]

I can only imagine how much dumber/eviller they got under Voldemort's reign, since he was so much worse than Grindelwald and had so many more supporters.

Were he not only messing around in europe? Not that MACUSA needed the hand. A place where a random official can decide to have someone killed in the span of about 5 minuttes is a place horrible enough to make Voldemort an improvement.

[Psyren]

To be fair, this is the same government which apparently lacks a screening process to prevent a demoted Auror from dragging a suspected criminal into a meeting with the President.

Hence "not one that makes any kind of sense" :smallbiggrin:


Fridge Logic aside, I thought this movie was fun but felt poorly focused. You have the escaped magical beasts plot, and the Grindelwald plot, and they mostly don't (visibly) interact with each other, and end up colliding through pure coincidence. It's like two movies mashed together into one, and they clash horribly in tone and disrupt each others' execution. And the one that gets the most screen time doesn't have much in the way of a satisfying story arc with climax and resolution.

This too. You've got all kinds of wonder/beauty and slapstick/comedy while outsmarting the authorities (both magical and mundane) to safely round up the beasts, complete with our muggle hero audience insert who can have all the loony magic explained at him for our benefit. Then one scene later you've got child abuse, oppression, corruption, racism, tedious politics, little girls singing catchy tunes about burning people alive while playing hopscotch, etc. Then back again.



Were he not only messing around in europe? Not that MACUSA needed the hand. A place where a random official can decide to have someone killed in the span of about 5 minuttes is a place horrible enough to make Voldemort an improvement.

Correct, he hadn't done anything in America yet, though JKR said in an interview that he was planning to. But he doesn't have to physically be there or attack to affect them or for them to react in draconian ways. Otherwise yes, Voldemort is not that far a step down from the way things actually were.

It's like the minute there's a Dark Wizard of some kind, magical governments immediately seize upon the excuse to justify all kinds of civil rights violations. Aren't they supposed to be more enlightened than we are? Perhaps we are all Voldemort!

[TheFamilarRaven]

I think Newt couldn't apparate past customs firstly because he doesn't want to enter the country illegally. If things had gone as he planned he'd lay low and not draw attention and being in the country illegally would have made his objective hard to accomplish. Also, so far no one has apparated such great distances and we know that there are ways of blocking apparation.

The senator humiliated/called him a freak in the newspaper's office, so I'd say simple revenge.


1) This argument would make sense if Newt was sneaking past the MACUSA customs, not no-maj customs. There are numerous ways for a wizard to avoid non-magical detection, and MACUSA certainly doesn't check in with the no-maj customs office for any "suspicious wizards", that'd violate the statute of secrecy. Which brings us right back to this: Why doesn't MACUSA have a customs agency? Considering they seem to have a hard ban on magical beasts and might be worried of any coming from over seas. Not to mention most non-magical governments have such an agency. That's not to say that the magical world need to emulate the non-magic world. It just illustrates that it's probably a common bureau to have in any well established government.

Also, it's not like everyone in the USA is checking his visa, especially in 1920. If he wanted to take a train to Arizona all he'd have to do is pay for a ticket.

2) Consider my objection expunged. I honestly could not remember the reason for that occurrence.


Fridge Logic aside, I thought this movie was fun but felt poorly focused. You have the escaped magical beasts plot, and the Grindelwald plot, and they mostly don't (visibly) interact with each other, and end up colliding through pure coincidence. It's like two movies mashed together into one, and they clash horribly in tone and disrupt each others' execution. And the one that gets the most screen time doesn't have much in the way of a satisfying story arc with climax and resolution.

Thank you. This succinctly sums up what I was trying to say. (minus the fun part).

[Psyren]

Regarding Apparition - JKR did mention on Twitter that inter-continental teleportation is possible, but "very dangerous." So using a boat is justified in that sense, and if he was trying to keep a low profile, would have been a better option than Portkey or Floo Powder (both of which would likely have required registration and possible impounding of his case.)

[SuperPanda]

I for one enjoyed Harry Potter Pokemon with a side seasoning of Doctor Who.

Our Doctor stand in forgoes human companions for afore said Pokemon and has amazing and zany adventures with his conveniently infinite hidey space. In the middle of the fun we have something dark and creepy with a set up which is way more interesting than its payoff and an evil master pulling at the strings. Then we get the convient reset button thrown in at the end to ensure that nothing we've seen has any lasting effects even if it was jolly good fun.

Only real twist is that the human companion lives.

[Kato]

1) This argument would make sense if Newt was sneaking past the MACUSA customs, not no-maj customs. There are numerous ways for a wizard to avoid non-magical detection, and MACUSA certainly doesn't check in with the no-maj customs office for any "suspicious wizards", that'd violate the statute of secrecy. Which brings us right back to this: Why doesn't MACUSA have a customs agency? Considering they seem to have a hard ban on magical beasts and might be worried of any coming from over seas. Not to mention most non-magical governments have such an agency. That's not to say that the magical world need to emulate the non-magic world. It just illustrates that it's probably a common bureau to have in any well established government.

Don't you kind of answer your own question? Maybe MACUSA has it's own bureau but Newt clearly didn't want to deal with it because he brought magical creatures into the country. Since MACUSA doesn't work with or care for the normal humans, he could easily take that path and he would have been fine.
So... USA is pretty screwed when it comes to wizards illegally immigrating because they can hardly check every no-maj entering the country to be sure they're not mages, especially if they decline to work with the normal government.

[Legato Endless]

The structural problems are definitely the most reoccurring complaint for this film. Apparently the series is being expanded into a pentalogy. The original saga jump started the somewhat polemic trend of expanding films into multiple parts, which while frequently a nonsensical cash grab by imitators has had justified implementations. Maybe with an additional two films they'll be able to better focus their storytelling.

[digiman619]

I saw the movie earlier today. Quick question: Am I the only one that noticed that goblins (or possibly house elves, it's hard to tell) took up the position of blacks in that society? I mean, ignoring the HP-verse for a moment, everywhere you might expect to see a black person in a story set in 1920's New York, you had goblins instead: Elevator operators, shoe-(or rather wand-)shiners, bartenders, jazz singers. Am I the only one who saw that?

[Maryring]

I saw the movie. Short summary is. I didn't like it all that much. Longer elaboration.

The movie could've been a lot better with a stricter focus. Not just in the overarching plot, but also in the runtime. There was a ton of padding that never went anywhere. Niffler being cute is all well and good, but what was the point of showing him stealing the treasure that Jakob's grandma left him and never have a payoff for that? What was the point of the probability-viewing beastie whose name I've forgotten? Not only does it make Newt seem far less competent because he somehow can't notice that four, not three, beasts are missing, but it's whole presence can be summarized as it was there. It didn't do anything. And why even bother to show the "probability-vision" effect? It added absolutely nothing.

Same with scenes involving the human characters. Why did Newt and Jakob get caught in the bank when there was never any payoff for that? How is Jakob not a wanted criminal after being caught red-handed during a jewelry-store robbery? Why the hell was there a subplot about the senator being a gigantic jackass and his brother wanting to use the newspaper to prove magic exists? It's all so ridiculously unfocused. Tons of random things that just make the movie seem scattered and thoughtless.

Love was ridiculously forced. Newt and Anna gotta get married cuz they're married in the book it's based on. But the two had absolutely zero chemistry. I dunno if Jakob and Queenie had chemistry because that was just comedy.

And why did they have the speakeasy scene? Or rather, why did they have MACUSA show up there? There was a lot of shakycam and then Newt and the others got to safety somehow. It was so... weak.

And speaking of MACUSA, Newt and Anna being condemned to execution was just jarring. For the crime of being delayed in reporting a criminal, Anna has to be executed... wait what? There are no checks, no balances, no court hearing, no nothing. Just plain instant execution? With how ridiculous that was, I was wholly expecting someone to pull out a wand and shout "Abrakastabya!" or however you pronounce the killing curse. :P

The movie was fun when it focused on the fantastic beasts and how they were causing chaos and havoc. But the movie was otherwise very poorly made.

[Rodin]

I saw the movie earlier today. Quick question: Am I the only one that noticed that goblins (or possibly house elves, it's hard to tell) took up the position of blacks in that society? I mean, ignoring the HP-verse for a moment, everywhere you might expect to see a black person in a story set in 1920's New York, you had goblins instead: Elevator operators, shoe-(or rather wand-)shiners, bartenders, jazz singers. Am I the only one who saw that?

Saw the movie last night, and I noticed this too.

Goes even further to reinforce that the female black president was a very deliberate choice. The Wizarding world isn't racist against black people or prejudiced against women, but boy howdy are they racist against everybody else.

Or, as the late great Sir Pterry put it:


Racism was not a problem on the Discworld, because—what with trolls and dwarfs and so on—speciesism was more interesting. Black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green.

[CWater]

Just saw it today. Thought the movie was ok, but only barely. Some scenes were very very jarring, especially all that forced romance between Newt and Tina. *shudder* I think they should have focused more on Jacob and Queenie, while that started as a joke, I cared a lot more about their relationship than the other one.

Also, I'm sorry to say that I really disliked Tina as a character. She was supposed to be an auror (or ex anyway) and yet she wandered around looking like a scared girl that is going to cry at any minute. I know that the Ministry being ineffective is kind of a theme in HP, but.. I guess I kind of expected more of a protagonist. Or that her not really being suited for the job had been a plot point, or... something.

That the Ministry seemed to consist of idiots didn't actually bother me for the reason I mentioned. The officials in the wizarding world have a good history of being shown as notoriously incompetent and stupid even in the present, I don't expect this to have been better almost 100 years ago. I also really don't understand the issue people have about a black woman as president (I suppose it again tells something about the attitudes of the people who complain). These are wizards and witches for crying out loud. They have prejudice, but their not the same as muggles have, not least for the simple reason that it's damn difficult treat people with immense magical power poorly. Some of the strongest magic users in history have been witches as well as wizards and of any colour, and I see how this has shaped their society. Also, they've got the house elves and goblins to push around instead.

This brings up another point that annoyed me. With witches and wizards possessing such crazy powers, how on earth was a war with muggles any realistic danger? In the modern era I could kind of see it, with tech being so highly developed it can actually challenge a lot magic has shown to do (and in some ways it's even more powerful in my opinion), but back in 1920s? No contest.

Something else that always bothers me is the clothing thing, both in the old movies as well as this new. This is a clear discrepancy between the movies and books, as in the latter it is more than once noted how wizards and witches do actually dress very differently from muggles. Heck, it's often an easy way to spot a wizard from a muggle crowd, because even when they try to look like muggles they don't always get it right! But in the movies they wore the same clothes, which is not only annoying, but actually misleading in that it makes it seem like the two worlds would share more of the same culture and values, when they don't.

Phew, didn't mean to write such a rant, guess that really wanted to come out. But yeah, uh, the magical beasts were cool. Shame the movie wasn't more about them.

[Dragonexx]

Something else that always bothers me is the clothing thing, both in the old movies as well as this new. This is a clear discrepancy between the movies and books, as in the latter it is more than once noted how wizards and witches do actually dress very differently from muggles. Heck, it's often an easy way to spot a wizard from a muggle crowd, because even when they try to look like muggles they don't always get it right! But in the movies they wore the same clothes, which is not only annoying, but actually misleading in that it makes it seem like the two worlds would share more of the same culture and values, when they don't.

It should be noted that we only see magical europe (specifically britain, france, and scandanavia, and only hints at the last two) wizards in other regions of the world might be completely different in style and culture. That the U.S. wizards dress in more normal clothing is no big deal and I actually like that wizards in different countries might dress differently. Just as the muggle world not a monolith, neither should the wizarding world.

[CWater]

It should be noted that we only see magical europe (specifically britain, france, and scandanavia, and only hints at the last two) wizards in other regions of the world might be completely different in style and culture. That the U.S. wizards dress in more normal clothing is no big deal and I actually like that wizards in different countries might dress differently. Just as the muggle world not a monolith, neither should the wizarding world.

True, BUT the American wizarding world was described as being particularly isolated from the muggles so it makes no sense here.

[5a Violista]

...but they‘re described as isolated in the sense of “trying not to stand out or be found so they don‘t get bombed again by terrorist witch-hunting squibs“ which is definitely different from the culturally isolated British wizarding way.

To me, it seems like somebody who is in danger of dying if they stand out will at the very least have a MACUSA department (whoever it is that is in charge of that ‘level of danger‘ wheel, mind erasors, aurors, wand registration department, ...) and dozens of laws (Rappaport‘s law, wand permits to carry around a wand) and policies ( refusal to allow underage wizards to hold a wand outside of school hours, ...) dedicated to not standing out. It makes sense that they would also have a ministry department dedicated to analyzing newspapers and trends, since they cannot get this information from the North American governments, unlike the European wizarding ministries who are often in direct contact with the local governments.

Either way, you have to make assumptions. You either have to assume that MACUSA has a department dedicated to fitting in visually, or that they do not have one. Unfortunately, only one of those assumptions really fits the consequences and details explored in the movie, so if you assume the other you will experience cognitive dissonance.