Monsters gaining Class Levels

[Cyussu]

I think this was brought up, but my google-fu is failing me on finding anything. This is a both 3.5e/PF question.

If a Monster, let's say, a Celestial Warpony, could it get levels in Fighter?

If not, why? I don't see a problem here personally.

This is more so than not to sate my DM's statements on a sentient monster, "Non Null-Int/Int1~2 Creature", but one with the ability to learn how to speak and such. The minimum 3 required for a PC.

[MisterKaws]

I think this was brought up, but my google-fu is failing me on finding anything. This is a both 3.5e/PF question.

If a Monster, let's say, a Celestial Warpony, could it get levels in Fighter?

If not, why? I don't see a problem here personally.

This is more so than not to sate my DM's statements on a sentient monster, "Non Null-Int/Int1~2 Creature", but one with the ability to learn how to speak and such. The minimum 3 required for a PC.

Yes, they can. The only requirement for taking most base classes is 3 Int. Even if they have defined alignment and race, that's just a recommendation.

[Cyussu]

Yes, they can. The only requirement for taking most base classes is 3 Int. Even if they have defined alignment and race, that's just a recommendation.

As a follow up, mind you homebrew class incoming, http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Monster_Tamer_(3.5e_Class)

For quicker reference, I can include puush links for photos.

EDIT:

http://puu.sh/so7wY/cba86efbfe.png
http://puu.sh/so7yb/892b6e0cd9.png
http://puu.sh/so7FL/2121d44fe1.png
http://puu.sh/so7In/91659bb7ad.png

EDIT 2: If a Monster does not have an "Advancement" note in a 3.5 book, does that mean they cannot gain HD or that they merely do not grow in SIZE from HD?

[ZamielVanWeber]

No advancement line means they cannot advance by monstrous hit dice. Class levels are not covered by that rule.

[Troacctid]

Monsters that can advance by class level will say "By class level" in the advancement line of their statblock. I don't have a citation for whether or not creatures without that text can do it, but off the top of my head, I believe they cannot.

The exception is if the monster is a PC. All player characters can advance by class level, regardless of the usual advancement method for their race.

The relevant rules:

Intelligent creatures that are reasonably humanoid in shape most commonly advance by adding class levels. Creatures that fall into this category have an entry of "By character class" in their Advancement line.

Even if the creature is of a kind that normally advances by Hit Dice rather than class levels, a PC can gain class levels rather than Hit Dice.

[Cyussu]

Monsters that can advance by class level will say "By class level" in the advancement line of their statblock. I don't have a citation for whether or not creatures without that text can do it, but off the top of my head, I believe they cannot.

The exception is if the monster is a PC. All player characters can advance by class level, regardless of the usual advancement method for their race.

The relevant rules:

From what I've noticed though, and something I think seems to fit properly. Int 3+ being sentience. Wouldn't something capable of speaking, or learning to speak a language rather, be capable of doing more than mere tricks? Like say, Half-Fiend Template on a basic Squirrel would be able to speak and whatnot, so wouldn't it being able to take class levels due to speaking a language, and having an Int of 3+?

[Khedrac]

Obligatory link: Urpriest's Monstrous Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook) - seriously he does an excellent job of explaining how monster advancement works.

Any intelligent 'monster' can advance by class levels. Animal intelligence and unitelligent creatures cannot advance by class level.
Those with an entry saying "by class" only advance by class levels.
Those with a hit dice listing usually advance by racial hit dice (they are usually unintelligent, so usually they cannot advance by class levels).

[John Longarrow]

Chapter 4 (page 290) in the Monster Manual is the first place you'd want to look.

[Hogsy]

Shouldn't some monster "races" have LA or sth though? Is that calculated on a DM by DM basis or is there some official ruling?

[John Longarrow]

Monsters that are generally playable (such as an Orc, Ogre, or Pixie) have a LA in their stat block. Ogres get 4 racial HD and LA of 2. Pixies have a LA of 4 but only have one HD, so that gets traded for their first level.

[ace rooster]

For reference consider dragons. They typically advance by dragon HD, but there are prestige classes specially for them too. It is never explicitly stated that dragons can take class levels, so I would read that as implying the default position is for monsters to be able to take class levels just fine.

Edit: Oh, yeah, hound archon hero (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/archon.htm#houndArchon) too.

[Khedrac]

Shouldn't some monster "races" have LA or sth though? Is that calculated on a DM by DM basis or is there some official ruling?
This is fairly independent to advancement. Monsters without a Level Adjustment value (as distinct form an LA of 0) are not suitable for playing as characters irrespective of the method of advancement. Yes it is up to the DM (as are all things) but the ability to advance my character class need not have an LA (or may have a cohort-only LA) as well.

[Cyussu]

Thank you all for the replies. :)