AL wizard build advice

[Foxydono]

So I have finally decided to play a wizard, but I can't decide which route to go. I am considering three options:
- Straight up wizard - Deep Gnome or human variant for +1 con + prof.
- Fighter 1 / wizard x - Rock Gnome, because I already have con save. I can get str and con to 14 and int to 17. After level 4 I could make str 15 for fullplate and shield together with 18 int.
- Cleric 1 (Knowledge domain) / wizard x - Cleric spells but only medium armor and no con save. Can dump str and get 14 dex instead to make up for that. Could go deep gnome with this one.

And are the creatures in volos book playable in AL?

Any advice on which route to go is welcome :)

[mgshamster]

AL is so wide and varied (both in adventures and who your fellow adventurers are) that a build is irrelevant. Just play what is fun for you. Builds don't really matter.

As for Volos Guide, there's a free PDF on the DM guild explaining how exactly the playable races in Volvo's guide interact with AL. However, you'll have to be careful; you're only allowed the PHB + 1 other book. So you can't pick volos guide and something out of EE or SCAG. Edit: this limit is not applicable for backgrounds (including background features).

[Tauguy628]

Deep gnome abjurer is very powerful. You just take the special feat and spam nondetection. If you want to make your DM mad, this is what you should play (or diviner).

[PeteNutButter]

You can totally play a Volo race in AL, but as mentioned they prevent you from taking spells and other options from SCAG and EE. I see most wizards go for the EE splat book for the spells there, but fighter 1/wizard x is forced to use SCAG for their cantrips if they want to be effective in melee. Volo's races additionally force a faction(s) on you.

Hobgoblins are probably the best option there. Could use your racial on a con save 1/short rest.

Yuan-Ti wouldn't be horrible, just because magic resistance is kind of OP.

Overall variant human is likely the best option. If you plan on getting into the thick of things you need that fighter level for con saves. If instead you just want to not be a totally squish basket while still sitting back to cast, I prefer the cleric dip for armor. Being behind on spells known/in book is so much less painful when you still have the appropriate amount of slots for your level. The option to have healing spells is just gravy.

[Specter]

I'd go with Fighter 1 instead of Cleric 1. Sure, with Cleric you don't waste caster levels and get Bless/Guidance, but Fighter gives you CON save (so no need to spend a feat), +1AC wirh Defense (which goes a long way) and some bonus healing that may come in handy in the heat of combat.

Also don't bother with STR, get 14 DEX easily and go for Breastplate+shield, for a total of 19AC. With Shield, that's 24, more than enough for a wizard.

[Foxydono]

Thanks for all the advice! Let me respond to some of the idea's:


AL is so wide and varied (both in adventures and who your fellow adventurers are) that a build is irrelevant. Just play what is fun for you. Builds don't really matter.

As for Volos Guide, there's a free PDF on the DM guild explaining how exactly the playable races in Volvo's guide interact with AL. However, you'll have to be careful; you're only allowed the PHB + 1 other book. So you can't pick volos guide and something out of EE or SCAG. Edit: this limit is not applicable for backgrounds (including background features).
Playing something fun is the idea! I do like to role play and make funny backgrounds, but I like to optimize my character as well. I want to play a caster, but one that doesn't die easy. Therefor, I'm looking for the best way to get some defense. Fighter and cleric provide that, but both have their drawbacks as well. Not getting 3rd level spells at 5th levels can be a problem :p

But thanks for clearing up the rule about only taking 1 extra book. I did read quite a bit, but I didn't notice this.


Deep gnome abjurer is very powerful. You just take the special feat and spam nondetection. If you want to make your DM mad, this is what you should play (or diviner).
Well I was poundering between divination and abjuration. I didn't even realize the combo and since I already played a diviner I just might do this. Although I wont be spamming it all the time, that's just cheesy, but I will defintly do that from time to time if I do decide on this route :)


You can totally play a Volo race in AL, but as mentioned they prevent you from taking spells and other options from SCAG and EE. I see most wizards go for the EE splat book for the spells there, but fighter 1/wizard x is forced to use SCAG for their cantrips if they want to be effective in melee. Volo's races additionally force a faction(s) on you.

Hobgoblins are probably the best option there. Could use your racial on a con save 1/short rest.

Yuan-Ti wouldn't be horrible, just because magic resistance is kind of OP.

Overall variant human is likely the best option. If you plan on getting into the thick of things you need that fighter level for con saves. If instead you just want to not be a totally squish basket while still sitting back to cast, I prefer the cleric dip for armor. Being behind on spells known/in book is so much less painful when you still have the appropriate amount of slots for your level. The option to have healing spells is just gravy.
I wasn't planning on going melee and I probably won't even take warcaster. Ill just have a shield and a free hand. I haven't bought volo's yet, because Im a but short on cash with all the holidays in november/december, so I don't know the details of the hobgoblin or yuan-ti. The problem with human variant is that I don't have darkvision and since almost everyone has this, not having it really bothers me. As for for you preference for a cleric as dip I understand, but it also depends on the party and I have no idea how that will look.

I'm currently leaning toward what specter said so I don't need to take the resilient feat so I can go deep gnome for darkvision, but it's probably both equal power wise.

Edit: Does Yuan -Ti give MR? Because abjuration also give this at 14th lvl, so that would overlap.


I'd go with Fighter 1 instead of Cleric 1. Sure, with Cleric you don't waste caster levels and get Bless/Guidance, but Fighter gives you CON save (so no need to spend a feat), +1AC wirh Defense (which goes a long way) and some bonus healing that may come in handy in the heat of combat.

Also don't bother with STR, get 14 DEX easily and go for Breastplate+shield, for a total of 19AC. With Shield, that's 24, more than enough for a wizard.
As said above I see your point. But I do have a question, because you need at least 13 Strenght to multiclass out of fighter. This means Str 13, Dex 12(+1), Con 14, Wis 10, Int 15 (+2), Cha 8. Than at 5th level I can take ASI for +1 int/+1dex for example (or observant feat). Isn't it better to go full plate instead and 'swap' dex/str around?

Going this route you have +2 AC extra, but you have disadvantage on stealth and it costs 1.100 more in gold. And you need to go rock gnome or else you only have 13 con, so that is a bummer. But I might be a bit too focused on AC :p

Edit: So I have decided I like the fighter route more than cleric. Although the new cleric UA stuff seems nice, but I won't be able to use this. This still leaves me with a couple of options:

1. Deep gnome Fighter dex route: Str 13, Dex 12 (+1), Con 14, Wis 10, Int 15(+2). AC 18 and darkvision at 1st lvl and at 5th +1 dex +1 int you get 19 ac, than at 9th level the special gnome feat perhaps (is this worth it at high lvls just for buffing your abjuration shield or would you pick it at 5th level instead of dex+int?

2. Rock gnome Fighter str route: Str 14, Dex 10, Con 13(+1), Wis 12, Int 15(+2), Cha 8. AC 19 at first level (scale mail) and darkvision 60 feet. At 5th level +1 str/+1 int and full plate for a wooping 21 AC. At 9th level you can take +2 int or a feat maybe (sharpshooter?)

3. Human Cleric dex route (resilient feat at first level): Str 8, Dex 14, Con 12(+2), Wis 13, Int 15(+1), Cha 10. Light or knowledge domain for cleric spells and goodies. You get medium armor + shield for 18 AC, at 5th level you get +2 int. At 9th prob +2 int as well, unless there is a feat you want.

So the (dis)advantages of: all versions have con prof at first, so I won't mention this further.
1: +Decent dex save +darkvision +gnome feat for cheese +advantage on int/wis/cha saves v magic, - ASI progression (20int) is slow due to the gnome feat -'only' 18/19 AC
2: +darkvision +advantage on int/wis/cha saves v magic +19/21 AC +better ASI progression, -Bad dex save, -no imba gnome feat to abuse abjuration -disadvantage on stealth
3: +cleric goodies +Wis prof +decent ASI progression +decent dex save +continues spell advancement, - 'only' 18 AC, -no gnome cunning -no darkvision -no abjuration cheese feat

Which of the 3 routes would you pick?

[Specter]

You need 13 STR or DEX to multi out of fighter. So relax.

You can do 8str, 14dex, 13con, 14int, wi14, ch8 smoothly.

[PeteNutButter]

Edit: Does Yuan -Ti give MR? Because abjuration also give this at 14th lvl, so that would overlap.

Edit: So I have decided I like the fighter route more than cleric. Although the new cleric UA stuff seems nice, but I won't be able to use this. This still leaves me with a couple of options:

1. Deep gnome Fighter dex route: Str 13, Dex 12 (+1), Con 14, Wis 10, Int 15(+2). AC 18 and darkvision at 1st lvl and at 5th +1 dex +1 int you get 19 ac, than at 9th level the special gnome feat perhaps (is this worth it at high lvls just for buffing your abjuration shield or would you pick it at 5th level instead of dex+int?

2. Rock gnome Fighter str route: Str 14, Dex 10, Con 13(+1), Wis 12, Int 15(+2), Cha 8. AC 19 at first level (scale mail) and darkvision 60 feet. At 5th level +1 str/+1 int and full plate for a wooping 21 AC. At 9th level you can take +2 int or a feat maybe (sharpshooter?)

3. Human Cleric dex route (resilient feat at first level): Str 8, Dex 14, Con 12(+2), Wis 13, Int 15(+1), Cha 10. Light or knowledge domain for cleric spells and goodies. You get medium armor + shield for 18 AC, at 5th level you get +2 int. At 9th prob +2 int as well, unless there is a feat you want.

So the (dis)advantages of: all versions have con prof at first, so I won't mention this further.
1: +Decent dex save +darkvision +gnome feat for cheese +advantage on int/wis/cha saves v magic, - ASI progression (20int) is slow due to the gnome feat -'only' 18/19 AC
2: +darkvision +advantage on int/wis/cha saves v magic +19/21 AC +better ASI progression, -Bad dex save, -no imba gnome feat to abuse abjuration -disadvantage on stealth
3: +cleric goodies +Wis prof +decent ASI progression +decent dex save +continues spell advancement, - 'only' 18 AC, -no gnome cunning -no darkvision -no abjuration cheese feat

Which of the 3 routes would you pick?

Remember that races with darkvision still have disadvantage on perception checks while in darkness, so the party is usually still better off with light, stealth not withstanding. As it is AL, it should be played by the rules, I'd remind the DM of this rule. It certainly helps humans not feel underpowered.

My point before though was that while concentration is HUGE on any caster, if you sit in the back you shouldn't have to make them that often. If you are concentrating on Bless, its better than being proficient levels 1-4. Also of note for the cleric vs fighter, failing a wisdom save usually comes with loss of concentration and loss of your action until you later make said save. While the con save is more common happening every time you take damage while concentrating, the wisdom save is more punishing when it is failed. The best way to not lose concentration on a spell is to not take damage.

You should be able to afford half plate relatively easy before long making medium armor AC 19(20 as a fighter). I wouldn't bother with trying to be stealthy, you'll never be good enough to make it reliable. You can always carry around a breastplate and swap out in advance if you know you want to sneak about.

With a shielded AC of 24 and counterspell (although not at the same time due to reaction limits) your DM may find it annoyingly hard to even land a hit against you. Your biggest bane will be crits and AoE (save for half effects) as they hit no matter what. I am currently playing a cleric sorcerer with the same AC set up and I rarely get hit, while I actually wade into the fight with spirit guardians up. If you are sitting back mostly, you won't be getting hit often enough to make up for the delayed spell casting from fighter, IMO.

As for your cleric domains mentioned, I'd consider something that doesn't overlap with wizard as much. One of the big appeals of those domains is their access to wizard spells, which wouldn't be so useful on a wizard.

[Naanomi]

If you want an armored wizard, a Variant Human Fighter 1/Wizard 18/Fighter +1 isn't terrible...
14/8/16/16/10/8

Choose Arcana as a background skill

Use your Variant Human feat to get Heavy Armor Mastery (gives you the +1 Strength to wear fullplate unhindered) which makes you extremely durable for levels 1-3 or so, and will make your concentration checks easier for the rest of your career. Fullplate, a shield, defensive combat style, and the Shield spell will make it harder to do better for your AC

[Foxydono]

Remember that races with darkvision still have disadvantage on perception checks while in darkness, so the party is usually still better off with light, stealth not withstanding. As it is AL, it should be played by the rules, I'd remind the DM of this rule. It certainly helps humans not feel underpowered.

My point before though was that while concentration is HUGE on any caster, if you sit in the back you shouldn't have to make them that often. If you are concentrating on Bless, its better than being proficient levels 1-4. Also of note for the cleric vs fighter, failing a wisdom save usually comes with loss of concentration and loss of your action until you later make said save. While the con save is more common happening every time you take damage while concentrating, the wisdom save is more punishing when it is failed. The best way to not lose concentration on a spell is to not take damage.

You should be able to afford half plate relatively easy before long making medium armor AC 19(20 as a fighter). I wouldn't bother with trying to be stealthy, you'll never be good enough to make it reliable. You can always carry around a breastplate and swap out in advance if you know you want to sneak about.

With a shielded AC of 24 and counterspell (although not at the same time due to reaction limits) your DM may find it annoyingly hard to even land a hit against you. Your biggest bane will be crits and AoE (save for half effects) as they hit no matter what. I am currently playing a cleric sorcerer with the same AC set up and I rarely get hit, while I actually wade into the fight with spirit guardians up. If you are sitting back mostly, you won't be getting hit often enough to make up for the delayed spell casting from fighter, IMO.

As for your cleric domains mentioned, I'd consider something that doesn't overlap with wizard as much. One of the big appeals of those domains is their access to wizard spells, which wouldn't be so useful on a wizard.
After thinking about it a lot (like 10+ hours -.-') I decided against the (deep) gnome. Abjuration speciality already gives advantage v spells, so the only real benefit is darkvision and the gnome feat. You make a good point about light being better for the party anyway, so darkvision is a minor setback. The gnome feat is nice, but getting 20 int + con/wis prof and the gnome feat is just hard. Even if you start as a fighter. So, variant human it is.

As for fighter v cleric: A fighter has con saves, butyou make a good point about wis saves being really important as well. So I actually want to be proficient in both. The only realy benefit then is a fighting style. So it's a trade-off between 1 AC and cleric spells, spell level progression and some minor cleric buffs depenable on the domain. Again you are probably right that a cleric wins, because 1 AC is not that good.

And so we have a variant human cleric 1 /wizard x. My next struggle was dex based or str based for full plate. You need 15 str or 14 dex and the difference is once again 1 AC (15+2 v 18 from full plate). Here come stats into play, because you can drop str to 8, but not dex or you might as well go with medium armor. Also, you need to spend two extra point in str (if point buy). This adds a total of 4 extra points and then you cannot go 13 wis or you mess up tyour constitution.

In this scenario you can go what Naanomi suggested:


If you want an armored wizard, a Variant Human Fighter 1/Wizard 18/Fighter +1 isn't terrible...
14/8/16/16/10/8

Choose Arcana as a background skill

Use your Variant Human feat to get Heavy Armor Mastery (gives you the +1 Strength to wear fullplate unhindered) which makes you extremely durable for levels 1-3 or so, and will make your concentration checks easier for the rest of your career. Fullplate, a shield, defensive combat style, and the Shield spell will make it harder to do better for your AC

I would probably switch around wis/dex in this case. The full plate benefits with heavy armor mastery will probably hold out for quite a while. Maybe even till lvl 10, but it takes a feat and you wis saves are horrible. Also you lack behind in spell slot progression. Although it would (with full plate) provide a +2 AC bonus compared to the priest route, but I have such a good AC already with shield that I barely get hit (hopefully). I'll also have blur and a abjuration shield. This taken into account I have decided on what PeteNutButter suggested:

Human (variant) cleric 1 / wizard x with medium armor and dex
Stats: Str 8, Dex 13, Con 14(+2), Int 15(+1), Wis 13, Cha 9 (with resilient: Constitution)
AC 17, Ini +1, Speed 30
Background sailor
Alignment: LN
Cleric domain: knowledge: history and arcana double prof
Proficient: Arcana, Athletics, History, Investigation and Perception (passive 13)
Languages: common, giant and ??
God: Azuth, God of wizard. This makes a lot of snense for this character.

ASI progression: resilient Dex at 5th level for extra AC and being proficient in: dex, con, wis, cha. At 9th level prob +2 Int, 13th level +2 int, 17th level observant or shield master and 20th level spellsniper.

If you guys don't mind I have a few follow-up questions:
- What do you think anout the feat distribution? The resilient con seems like a good choice so I can keep up bless. At 5th level I can choose resilient dex or +2 int. Shield master, spellsniper and obervant are good as well though. Which onces would you pick at what level?
- With the knowledge domain you can choose two skills. I'm sure I want arcana, but what about history v religion? Is one of them 'better' then the other or are they about equal?
- Since Im playing the Storms King's Thunder campaign, speaking giant sounds like a plan. Beside this I can choose two other languages, but what should I pick? I had the idea with my gnome being kidnapped by drow and sold to pirates and he would have the pirate background, but not I'm human so I dont know/ Elvish or Dwarvish is always good I guess. I don't know what party ill be playing with either. Anyone got an idea on what languages are best to pick?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for all the help so far!

[DrDinocrusher]

Human (variant) cleric 1 / wizard x with medium armor and dex
Stats: Str 8, Dex 13, Con 14(+2), Int 15(+1), Wis 13, Cha 9 (with resilient: Constitution)
AC 17, Ini +1, Speed 30
Background sailor
Alignment: LN
Cleric domain: knowledge: history and arcana double prof
Proficient: Arcana, Athletics, History, Investigation and Perception (passive 13)
Languages: common, giant and ??
God: Azuth, God of wizard. This makes a lot of snense for this character.

ASI progression: resilient Dex at 5th level for extra AC and being proficient in: dex, con, wis, cha. At 9th level prob +2 Int, 13th level +2 int, 17th level observant or shield master and 20th level spellsniper.

If you guys don't mind I have a few follow-up questions:
- What do you think anout the feat distribution? The resilient con seems like a good choice so I can keep up bless. At 5th level I can choose resilient dex or +2 int. Shield master, spellsniper and obervant are good as well though. Which onces would you pick at what level?
- With the knowledge domain you can choose two skills. I'm sure I want arcana, but what about history v religion? Is one of them 'better' then the other or are they about equal?
- Since Im playing the Storms King's Thunder campaign, speaking giant sounds like a plan. Beside this I can choose two other languages, but what should I pick? I had the idea with my gnome being kidnapped by drow and sold to pirates and he would have the pirate background, but not I'm human so I dont know/ Elvish or Dwarvish is always good I guess. I don't know what party ill be playing with either. Anyone got an idea on what languages are best to pick?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for all the help so far![/QUOTE]

-I think it depends on what route you're trying to go with your wizard. If you play transmutation wizard, then you don't resillient: con from 7th level onwards with this build. I think instead of resillient: dex you should either go with shield master (Advantage on dex saves), or +2 int. +2 int at level 5, and SM at 9 is probably a strong way to go.

-History comes into play a lot more in my games- it's the 'catch all' knowledge skill and will likely be useful in SKT.

-Generally speaking, draconic is a good way to go as it shows up quite often, and I personally like primordial given that it's the language of a wide number of creatures.

[Foxydono]

I think it depends on what route you're trying to go with your wizard. If you play transmutation wizard, then you don't resillient: con from 7th level onwards with this build. I think instead of resillient: dex you should either go with shield master (Advantage on dex saves), or +2 int. +2 int at level 5, and SM at 9 is probably a strong way to go.

-History comes into play a lot more in my games- it's the 'catch all' knowledge skill and will likely be useful in SKT.

-Generally speaking, draconic is a good way to go as it shows up quite often, and I personally like primordial given that it's the language of a wide number of creatures.

I'm planning to go abjuration wizard! As for your feat suggestion. I agree with SM being really good (if) you make the save. The shove ability is not of much use probably since I won't use the attack option very often. The second ability gives you +2 dex to a spell or attack that targets only you (so not against aoe damage from fireball). The third option lets you take a dex saving trow for no damage if a saving throw for half damage is allowed. You do not get advantage on dex saves as far as I know. Also, resilient dex gives me +1 AC (unless I change my stat distribution, I can get 14 dex and 14 con, so I will trade +1 hp each lvl). You still think SM is the best choice?

+2 int is always good, but I find a higher Intelligence less useful for a wizard then Dex on a Monk or Rogue for example. I don't think you can pick +2 int at first level, because you 'must' pick a feat if you go human variant.

You are probably right about history being more common than religion. I think I'll go history & arcana with my knowledge domain.

As for the languages: I did some digging around and decided on Draconic and Primordial, so excellent suggestions :)

[PeteNutButter]

I'm planning to go abjuration wizard! As for your feat suggestion. I agree with SM being really good (if) you make the save. The shove ability is not of much use probably since I won't use the attack option very often. The second ability gives you +2 dex to a spell or attack that targets only you (so not against aoe damage from fireball). The third option lets you take a dex saving trow for no damage if a saving throw for half damage is allowed. You do not get advantage on dex saves as far as I know. Also, resilient dex gives me +1 AC (unless I change my stat distribution, I can get 14 dex and 14 con, so I will trade +1 hp each lvl). You still think SM is the best choice?

+2 int is always good, but I find a higher Intelligence less useful for a wizard then Dex on a Monk or Rogue for example. I don't think you can pick +2 int at first level, because you 'must' pick a feat if you go human variant.

You are probably right about history being more common than religion. I think I'll go history & arcana with my knowledge domain.

As for the languages: I did some digging around and decided on Draconic and Primordial, so excellent suggestions :)

My advice would be not to be so focused on defense. You are not a front-liner. You're role is offense/control. Take resilient to start, but boost int to 20 before taking the other resilient. SM is a bit wasted on a caster, compared to having more spells prepared and greater chance those spells land.

Also remember you don't even need to make concentration saves if your ward absorbs all the damage!

[Specter]

I'm planning to go abjuration wizard! As for your feat suggestion. I agree with SM being really good (if) you make the save. The shove ability is not of much use probably since I won't use the attack option very often. The second ability gives you +2 dex to a spell or attack that targets only you (so not against aoe damage from fireball). The third option lets you take a dex saving trow for no damage if a saving throw for half damage is allowed. You do not get advantage on dex saves as far as I know. Also, resilient dex gives me +1 AC (unless I change my stat distribution, I can get 14 dex and 14 con, so I will trade +1 hp each lvl). You still think SM is the best choice?

+2 int is always good, but I find a higher Intelligence less useful for a wizard then Dex on a Monk or Rogue for example. I don't think you can pick +2 int at first level, because you 'must' pick a feat if you go human variant.

You are probably right about history being more common than religion. I think I'll go history & arcana with my knowledge domain.

As for the languages: I did some digging around and decided on Draconic and Primordial, so excellent suggestions :)

You don't need to bother about DEX saves, because
- if they come from a spell like Fireball, you can Counterspell it (and it will happen because you're an abjurer);
- if it comes from a dragon or something, you can Absorb Elements it up and still get some change hp back to your arcane ward.

[Dalebert]

Wizards have a work-around for spells regarding the PHB+1 rule. You can't learn Elemental Evil spells as your freebies if you picked a different book as your +1, but if you find them, you can copy them into your spellbook. You will likely cross paths with some other wizards who have those spells or even come across them as loot in some AL games, particularly if you play season 2.

[Foxydono]

My advice would be not to be so focused on defense. You are not a front-liner. You're role is offense/control. Take resilient to start, but boost int to 20 before taking the other resilient. SM is a bit wasted on a caster, compared to having more spells prepared and greater chance those spells land.

Also remember you don't even need to make concentration saves if your ward absorbs all the damage!
I figured going 20 Int is the most optimized route, but it feels like such a waste sticking with 13 dex till level 13. I'm not so worried about con saves with resilient. +5 to con saves will get me a long way even if they manage to land a hit!


You don't need to bother about DEX saves, because
- if they come from a spell like Fireball, you can Counterspell it (and it will happen because you're an abjurer);
- if it comes from a dragon or something, you can Absorb Elements it up and still get some change hp back to your arcane ward.
Well dex saves are not needed, but handy. I can't counterspell everything, although I'm not certain there are a lot of casters in the campaign. Another possible route I was thinking off was lvl 5 observant (since I'm prof in both investigation and perception, +1 Int. Then at lvl 9 +1 Int/+1 Dex and lvl 13 for +2 Int. This way I could be a help to the party, but maybe I should leave this too the skill monkeys like bard/rogue. Although having a passive perception of 19 and passive investigation of 21 at level 5 could have its benefits.

Another route could be 8 Str, 14 Dex, 13(+1) Con, 15(+1) Int, 13 Wis, 8 Cha. You trade +1 con for +1 dex, you skip resilient con/dex and go lucky instead and afterwards pump Int as fast as possible. Then at level 13 you can pick what you like :)



Wizards have a work-around for spells regarding the PHB+1 rule. You can't learn Elemental Evil spells as your freebies if you picked a different book as your +1, but if you find them, you can copy them into your spellbook. You will likely cross paths with some other wizards who have those spells or even come across them as loot in some AL games, particularly if you play season 2.
I know I can only bring +1 book, but going human cleric/wizard means I only picked stuff from the PhB, so I can still choose another source. I'll probably pick EE, but haven't decided on it yet.

[Specter]

Another route could be 8 Str, 14 Dex, 13(+1) Con, 15(+1) Int, 13 Wis, 8 Cha. You trade +1 con for +1 dex, you skip resilient con/dex and go lucky instead and afterwards pump Int as fast as possible. Then at level 13 you can pick what you like :)

That's the optimal route for AC. Breastplate + 14AC + Shield + Defense = 19.

And definitely max INT, it's important for saves, attacks, and the almighty INT check you will make to turn the enemy's Meteor Swarm into nothing. That's an abjurer's main strenght, and it shouldn't be taken lightly because it can destroy an entire encounter (I as a DM was a victim of that. If the bard is smart, he will realize that he should inspire you or cast Enhance Ability (INT) when you're facing casters.

[AttilatheYeon]

With spells like: Mage Armor, Shield, Mirror Image, and Blur, u don't need to MC Fighter or Cleric. Just stay out of combat and pop one of those spells when needed. Or if u're really worried play a Bladesinger.

[Specter]

With spells like: Mage Armor, Shield, Mirror Image, and Blur, u don't need to MC Fighter or Cleric. Just stay out of combat and pop one of those spells when needed. Or if u're really worried play a Bladesinger.

Mage Armor +2 dex: 15AC
BP + shield + Defense + 2dex: 19AC

You don't have to, but it's so good.

[Arial Black]

If you decide on the cleric dip then choose a domain which grants heavy armour proficiency for free and dump your Dex to 8, freeing up more points for other stats.

[Foxydono]

Mage Armor +2 dex: 15AC
BP + shield + Defense + 2dex: 19AC

You don't have to, but it's so good.
Haha, you almost made me reconsider fighter again, but I will tick with cleric for my own sanity. I decided on 14 dex instead of 16 con, but that still leaves the choice on what first feat to pick. I'm thinking about lucky, observant and resilient con. The con is really good for obvious purposes, but as I won't be hit often, so I am consedering lucky or observant (for 14 wis and 19 passive percetion and 20 passive investigation) or metagaming dice rolling. It's a tough choice :x

[Arial Black]

Haha, you almost made me reconsider fighter again, but I will tick with cleric for my own sanity. I decided on 14 dex instead of 16 con, but that still leaves the choice on what first feat to pick. I'm thinking about lucky, observant and resilient con. The con is really good for obvious purposes, but as I won't be hit often, so I am consedering lucky or observant (for 14 wis and 19 passive percetion and 20 passive investigation) or metagaming dice rolling. It's a tough choice :x

Does the idea of a domain which gives heavy armour not appeal?

[Foxydono]

If you decide on the cleric dip then choose a domain which grants heavy armour proficiency for free and dump your Dex to 8, freeing up more points for other stats.
I did think about this, you can read my thoughts about that in an earlier post. The thing is you need to go fighter for this, because you need 15 str for full plate and that together with 13 wis is a too big restrain. You don't want 8 dex, because medium armor (15+2) is really close to full plate (18) if you get a -1 penalty you might as well not do it. Or you can go heavy armor master for +1 str, but honestly this is way too defensive and will only give me realy benefits on the earlier levels.

So if you do go that route, you'll want to go fighter: Str 14(+1), Dex 10, Con 14, Int 15(+1), Wis 10, Cha 8.
Benefits (compared to cleric): resilient con, +2 more AC due to full plate and defense fighting style.
Benefits cleric: caster level progression is on track, excess to cleric spells like bless, guidance, cure wounds and cleric benefits (in my case double prof in arcana & history and two languages) and resilient wis.

Conclusion: although con saves are usually 'better' for a wizard, wis saves can also break concentration and are potenially very dangerous. But given my high AC I won't be hit that often, making wis/con saves about equal. If I take these away from the equasion the question is: do I want +2 AC or slightly better dex save, cleric spells and goodies and spell slot progression. I chose the latter because although AC is good, I don't want that to be my only focus.

[Foxydono]

Does the idea of a domain which gives heavy armour not appeal?
Well as already said in my previous post, this put a lot of restraint on your stat distribution. The only way it will work is like: Str 14(+1), Dex 10, Con 12, Int 15(+1), Wis 13, Cha 8.

The only real benefit is +1 AC compared to medium armor and the question is when I have enough money for a full plate, but I will leave that outside of the discussion for now.

Benefits heavy armor: +1 AC
Benefits medium armor: +2 on dex saves, +1 con

Íf it is just this, then +AC is probably slightly better, but I would need to pick out a new domain that gives heavy armor prof. I have the following choices (not considering bonus spells):
- Life: extra healing (almost useless for me apart from cure light wounds)
- Nature: a skill like survival or nature which is nice and a druid cantrip. Since I get to choose wizard and cleric cantrips this doesn't do much for me.
- Tempest: wrath of the storm I can use once per long rest. Not really worth it.
- War: useless cause I am not going to take the attack action.

So, basically I am stuck with the nature domain and I'll prob pick something like survival and a cantrip I won't have much use for or that I can already pick as a wizard/cleric.

Benefits heavy armor: +1 AC, survival prof, druid cantrip
Benefits medium armor: +2 dex saves, +1 con, +2 languages +double prof in arcana and history.

The last two benefits made me choose the medium armor route if I am honest. If only UA was available I would have gone forge domain with heavy armor, but it's not :(

Edit: Cleric v fighter, medium v heavy armor? It's a though choice to make and that's the whole reason I started this thread. Cleric and fighter are both good choices and they are really close in power when compared. It boils down too more AC vs versitility and since I have quite a few good defensive spells and abilities already I decided not to focus only on AC.

[Drackolus]

If you're willing to give up on con saves or maxed int, just be a hill dwarf. Your health is massive and you need no str for your heavy armor.
You won't be the best wizard, but you'll be the hardiest. Put 15's in con and int, 12(+1) in wis and do whatever you want with the rest. I'd recommend going 18 con 16 int at 4 and then pumping int again at 8.
Losing concentration will stink, however. But you probably won't drop anytime soon with 46 hp at level 4.

Also consider: with a 15 you get 18(str, plate), with a 14 you get 17(half plate), with a 13 you get 16(chain mail, str or half plate, dex). Keep in mind that chain mail is starting equipment, so that's cash for later. If you start with medium at +1 dex, you only get 15. Not a massive difference, I suppose, but a difference nonetheless.

[djreynolds]

I've played a dwarf abjurer in the past, it will leave you a point behind in intelligence till 12th level, but will net you 12 more HP.

IMO, can you live without the AC increase. You'll need warcaster if you wield a shield. That's an ASI you could use for elemental adept... which greatly increases the power of your cantrips.

I see con and wisdom saves as equals, and you want both if possible, as both will take you out of a fight.

Hill dwarf is very good, but you are again 1 point behind in terms of prepared spells, and spell DC. Is it a big deal.. no.

If you are looking for AC, bladesinger is by far the easiest choice. Mage armor is AC 13, plus dex, plus int. easily AC19. And eladrin's misty step is very good as it will get you out of grapples and such.

[Foxydono]

If you're willing to give up on con saves or maxed int, just be a hill dwarf. Your health is massive and you need no str for your heavy armor.
You won't be the best wizard, but you'll be the hardiest. Put 15's in con and int, 12(+1) in wis and do whatever you want with the rest. I'd recommend going 18 con 16 int at 4 and then pumping int again at 8.
Losing concentration will stink, however. But you probably won't drop anytime soon with 46 hp at level 4.

Also consider: with a 15 you get 18(str, plate), with a 14 you get 17(half plate), with a 13 you get 16(chain mail, str or half plate, dex). Keep in mind that chain mail is starting equipment, so that's cash for later. If you start with medium at +1 dex, you only get 15. Not a massive difference, I suppose, but a difference nonetheless.
Giving up on con saves and max Intelligence at level 9 doesn't sound a bit too defensive. Although it could be fun, I prefer not focusing that much on defense. Also, giving up a feat at first level is a not ideal either, so I'll stick with the human variant. Thanks for the advice though, it seems like a good build, just not the character I had in mind.



I've played a dwarf abjurer in the past, it will leave you a point behind in intelligence till 12th level, but will net you 12 more HP.

IMO, can you live without the AC increase. You'll need warcaster if you wield a shield. That's an ASI you could use for elemental adept... which greatly increases the power of your cantrips.

I see con and wisdom saves as equals, and you want both if possible, as both will take you out of a fight.

Hill dwarf is very good, but you are again 1 point behind in terms of prepared spells, and spell DC. Is it a big deal.. no.

If you are looking for AC, bladesinger is by far the easiest choice. Mage armor is AC 13, plus dex, plus int. easily AC19. And eladrin's misty step is very good as it will get you out of grapples and such.
I agree with wis/con prof being equal. Why do you need warcaster with a shield though? I mean, you still have a free hand, so casting a spell is no problem. Even if you get your hands on a staff you can just interact with it freely, putting it away to cast a spell and if you want to use it the next turn you can just interact with the staff again to grab it. Elemental adapt is something I would recommend for for the an evocation wizard not so much for an abjurer. I prefer crowd control spells v. raw damage, although there are a few exceptions to this.

I did look at a bladesinger and although tempting I decided on abjuration. Otherwise I'll have to start from scratch with my character creation :p

[Foxydono]

And after three days I'm finally done. For those who are interested:

Knox
Variant Human (observant feat) - Lawful Neutral - Background Sailor
Str 9 - Dex 14 - Con 13(+1) - Int 15(+1) - Wis 13(+1) - Cha 8
AC 18, +2 Initiative, Base Speed: 30
Skills (prof): Arcana 7, Athletics 1, History 7, Insight 4, Investigation 5, Perception 4, Religion 5
Passive perception: 19, passive investigation: 20
Langauges: Common, Giant, Primordial, Draconic, Lip Reading
Disadvantage on stealth checks

Personality Trait: The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Ideals: No thief, however skillful, can rob one of knowledge, and that is why knowledge is the best and safest treasure to acquire.
Bonds: The possession of knowledge does not kill the sense of wonder and mystery. There is always more mystery.
Flaws: Pirates are the scum of the earth and I will avenge my fallen crew mates when I see a pirate ship.

Personal info:
- age 20
- 135 pounds and 5'5 feet
- brown eyes
- brown skin with rasta hair
- Follower of Azuth: The Lord of Spells and God of Wizards
- Member of the Harpers (cleric domain: Knowledge)
- Trait: Ship's Passage

Spells: Wis - Spell DC 12 - Spell Attack Bones +4
Cantrips: Guidance, Sacred Flame, Thaumaturgy
First level: Command, Identify, Bless, Guiding Bolt, Cure Wounds

History:
I grew up in a small town near the sea. As a young boy I started working on my father's fishing boat. We had a large family with lots of mouths to feed, so everyone needed to help out. As I grew older I wanted to see more of the world and decided to work on a boat trading goods from one continent to another. Although hard labor never suited me, this boosted my stamina quite a bit. In my spare time, I read books, studied languages and listened to stories of old historic events. Going to different city's, I always had the ability to learn new things, buy new books and meet new people. One day our ship was attacked by pirates. This tragic event changed my life. The ship was seized and I barely escaped with my life. Seeking knowledge and guidance on what to do next I turned to Azuth and started my aventuring life.

Thanks for all the help and advice creating this character!

[rooneg]

I'm glad to see so many of the same lines of reasoning I went through when I was ending up with my Cleric 1/Wizard X Abjuration specialist build. I also played him for a couple of levels as a Diviner, but rebuilt back as Abjuration, since I missed the Arcane Ward HP.

I actually went with Arcana instead of Knowledge for the Cleric Domain, so I can have all the cantrips and a High Elf instead of a Variant Human, because darkvision and yet another free cantrip, but your decisions are also totally reasonable.

My main comment is about your cleric cantrip selection. Guidance is basically the only one you care about, but beyond that I'd take Light and Resistance over Sacred Flame and Thaumaturgy. Sacred Flame is a WIS save, and you're never going to get any better at Wisdom. Thaumaturgy is mostly role playing fluff, and if you want a role playing fluff cantrip Prestidigitation is more on-target for someone who's primarily a Wizard.

So at 5 what do you plan on doing with your first ASI? Bump INT to 18, or take Resilient CON for concentration checks? I'm actually about to level up, and since it'll push me out of the training wheels levels when you can rebuild at will I need to actually make that decision soon ;-)

[Sir cryosin]

I don't know if any suggested this yet but bladesinger is a good class with its int to AC and it ability to reduce damage ability.

[Sir cryosin]

I don't know if any suggested this yet but bladesinger is a good class with its int to AC and it ability to reduce damage ability.

[rooneg]

I don't know if any suggested this yet but bladesinger is a good class with its int to AC and it ability to reduce damage ability.

So, I think bladesingers are cool, but here are my reasons for not using one as my AL Wizard...

1) Medium (or Heavy) armor works for more than 2 minutes per short rest. Now in practice this isn't much of a problem in AL games (they tend to let you get a short rest pretty regularly), but it does come up.

2) The 6th level second attack is a wasted feature most of the time. It's rarely optimal for your wizard to be making melee attacks, and in an emergency situation when you do want to do it you're often going to want to use a SCAG cantrip like Green-Flame Blade, which doesn't work with multiple attacks.

3) It means you can't get other Wizard School features, like the Abjurer's Arcane Ward or the Diviner's Portent.

4) In an AL game where you're never sure what other players will be at the table it's super useful to be able to serve as a backup healer. Even a crappy healer (and let's face it, a single level dip in anything other than Life Cleric is going to be a pretty crappy healer) is better than no healer, and no healer is occasionally the alternative.

5) Bless is an awesome force multiplier, and since you're trying to stay out of combat anyway you're often the best person to keep a bless spell up.

6) Being able to spam Guidance when the party is in an exploration or investigation stage of the game is super useful.

7) Having access to all the first level Cleric spells gives you a bunch of flexibility. Need to survive in the desert? Create Water. Want to protect the king from the poison wielding assassins? Detect Poison. Keeping an eye out for Fiends? Detect Evil and Good. This on top of the previously discussed super useful stuff like Bless and Cure Wounds/Healing Word.

8) Bladesinger is more MAD. You're really going to want to increase both DEX and INT to 20, where a Wizard with a dip in Cleric can get away with leaving DEX at 14 (for a medium armor wearer anyway) and then just needs a WIS of 13. This leaves you with more ASIs to use on feats.

The advantages of Bladesinger are that you don't need to put points in WIS (but maybe you do anyway, since it's a useful save), you can function without armor more effectively (less of an issue in AL games, since they're biased against taking your toys away, but it does happen) and you don't put off getting 3rd level spells until 6th level. These aren't nothing, but I think a 1 level dip in Cleric beats it out for the kind of AL games I typically play in.

[Naanomi]

Times when second attack might be useful;
-antimagic zones, (carry a ranged weapon for this)
-when shoving, grappling, or escaping a grapple is really key and two attempts to do so would help (catch the last fleeing goblin to interrogate, push the guy off the volcano edge)

That's... about it in practical gameplay. It's a ribbon to show you are 'flighty'

[rooneg]

Times when second attack might be useful;
-antimagic zones, (carry a ranged weapon for this)
-when shoving, grappling, or escaping a grapple is really key and two attempts to do so would help (catch the last fleeing goblin to interrogate, push the guy off the volcano edge)

That's... about it in practical gameplay. It's a ribbon to show you are 'flighty'

Sure, it's not literally useless, but I don't think it stacks up well relative to other 6th level abilities for Wizard Schools. I mean sure, the Evocation one is pretty terrible, but most of them are at least giving you something to do that's related to the thing people who pick your school do regularly. Bladesinger gives you something that's relevant to what people might think a bladesinger would do if they just read the name "bladesinger", but in practice that doesn't seem to actually be what people who take bladesinger do. You hear the name and think "magic guy who gets in sword fights and casts spells", but in practice what you get is "wizard who dances around in light armor while doing the same sort of magic stuff other wizards do, oh and he carries a sword in case things really get crazy and he's out of spells". In that context, an extra weapon attack is not terribly good, especially when the class tends to come packaged with the SCAG cantrips.

[djreynolds]

Level 14 bladesinger adds int and dex to all melee swipes, up +10 damage a hit.

Level 10 X5 per spell slot level used as a reaction to damage.

But I like you build as is. Honestly I may have grabbed hill dwarf and dumped strength and grabbed heavy armor... but.

The build is solid, enjoy. And I like sacred flame... useable in melee. Also I would just go weaponless, and use a shield.

[rooneg]

Level 14 bladesinger adds int and dex to all melee swipes, up +10 damage a hit.

Level 10 X5 per spell slot level used as a reaction to damage.

But I like you build as is. Honestly I may have grabbed hill dwarf and dumped strength and grabbed heavy armor... but.

The build is solid, enjoy. And I like sacred flame... useable in melee. Also I would just go weaponless, and use a shield.

No argument about level 14 and 10 abilities, they're pretty sweet, but I value level 6 abilities more because WAY more games are played between levels 5 and 9 than from level 10 on. Your mileage may vary, of course.

Agree on weaponless being the default setting for this type of build. The 2 AC is a great thing, and you're planning on casting spells most of the time anyway. Mine uses a shield in one hand and a wand of the war mage in the other. His short sword is largely fluff, but gets whipped out occasionally if he needs to cast a green-flame blade or something.

[Foxydono]

I'm glad to see so many of the same lines of reasoning I went through when I was ending up with my Cleric 1/Wizard X Abjuration specialist build. I also played him for a couple of levels as a Diviner, but rebuilt back as Abjuration, since I missed the Arcane Ward HP.

I actually went with Arcana instead of Knowledge for the Cleric Domain, so I can have all the cantrips and a High Elf instead of a Variant Human, because darkvision and yet another free cantrip, but your decisions are also totally reasonable.

My main comment is about your cleric cantrip selection. Guidance is basically the only one you care about, but beyond that I'd take Light and Resistance over Sacred Flame and Thaumaturgy. Sacred Flame is a WIS save, and you're never going to get any better at Wisdom. Thaumaturgy is mostly role playing fluff, and if you want a role playing fluff cantrip Prestidigitation is more on-target for someone who's primarily a Wizard.

So at 5 what do you plan on doing with your first ASI? Bump INT to 18, or take Resilient CON for concentration checks? I'm actually about to level up, and since it'll push me out of the training wheels levels when you can rebuild at will I need to actually make that decision soon ;-)

I'm glad you like my build! Both divination and abjuration are very strong so both are a good pick, but I am happy with my choice :)

About the cantrips, Thaumaturgy was mostly for fluff as you said and I can easily replace it with light. Especially since I don't have darkvision. Was planning on grabbing it with a wizard next level, but your suggestion is better. The reason I chose Sacred Flame was because it is a good damage cantrip at first level and Guidance is 'better' than resistance and both need concentration, so I can only focus on one of these. But after first level I can pick wizard spells, so it's not really a problem to replace Sacred Flame.

When I reach level 5 and 9 I was planning on boosting Intelligence to 20. There are a lot of feats I'd like to take, but boosting Int is probably the best route to take. At 13th and 17th level, if I reach that far, I will look at my situation. What magic items I have and how the party setup is. Strong contenders are the following feats: lucky, resilient Con and maybe even tough for the extra HP. If I reach level 20 I might even go 1 level into rogue and skip the last ASI for expertise in investigation and percetion for a passive perception of 29 and passive investigation of 32. Would love to get 16 wisdom somehow to reach passive perception 30, but this is so far ahead I'm not sure I will do this. It's not the best thing to do, but I would do it for fun :)


I don't know if any suggested this yet but bladesinger is a good class with its int to AC and it ability to reduce damage ability.

Rooneg already made an extensive list of all the advantages and disadvantages of a Bladesinger. It did come up, but I've decided on an abjuration wizard, so I never really considered it an option. It's a decent build and Naanomi made some good points on the second attack, but it just isn't the wizard I want to play.


But I like your build as is. Honestly, I may have grabbed hill dwarf and dumped strength and grabbed heavy armor... but.

The build is solid, enjoy. And I like sacred flame... useable in melee. Also I would just go weaponless, and use a shield.

I did consider Hill Dwarf, but it's just a little too defensive. I don't want to be a meat shield. If I did that I'd go hill dwarf moon druid :p

I am planning on going weaponless after reaching 2nd level and getting wizard cantrips. Rooneg made a good point about the spell being useless at later levels.


Agree on weaponless being the default setting for this type of build. The 2 AC is a great thing, and you're planning on casting spells most of the time anyway. Mine uses a shield in one hand and a wand of the war mage in the other. His short sword is largely fluff, but gets whipped out occasionally if he needs to cast a green-flame blade or something.
I agree! Not much use for a weapon with this build and otherwise I would need to pick up warcaster.

[djreynolds]

IMO, humbly, you must max out intelligence ASAP. Because it allows you to prepare more spells and your spell DC needs it and your arcana for counterspell/dispell

Resilient con, I may have grabbed at creation.

Reaction spells are your bread and butter... absorb elements, shield, feather fall and counterspell.

But for now, rely on your team to keep you upright, if you lose concentration... you lose it. And use those healing spells you have.

Arcane ward and the shield spell will carry you.

Blur and protection from evil, mirror image, fireshield... good spells.

[rooneg]

IMO, humbly, you must max out intelligence ASAP. Because it allows you to prepare more spells and your spell DC needs it and your arcana for counterspell/dispell

Resilient con, I may have grabbed at creation.

Reaction spells are your bread and butter... absorb elements, shield, feather fall and counterspell.

But for now, rely on your team to keep you upright, if you lose concentration... you lose it. And use those healing spells you have.

Arcane ward and the shield spell will carry you.

Blur and protection from evil, mirror image, fireshield... good spells.

I think it's pretty clear that the first ASI should go in to INT. The second I think is more of a toss up, and it'll largely depend on what sort of concentration spells I'm using around that level. At this point, the only one I use is Bless, and if I drop it then it's not the end of the world. I suspect by level 9 I'll have a larger variety of concentration based spells, so the tradeoff between putting INT to 20 and getting Resilient CON will be closer. I mean if nothing else it'll be 9 more hit points on top of a total of +5 to CON saves (+4 from the prof bonus, +1 from the additional point of CON, moving it from 13 to 14).