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Long_shanks
2016-11-21, 10:19 AM
Hello all.
I'm going to shortly be joining a game where the DM allows gestalting (as long as it's not a completely broken combo), and I've decided to go for a Swashbuckler (Inspired blade) // Bard. The campaing is going to run from level 1 to 10+. However, I'm lacking a bit of inspiration for the feats and the spells known, and so I call upon thee, Playground, for the first time.

The build so far:
Human
STR: 8, DEX: 17, CON: 13,
INT: 14, WIS: 12, CHA: 18.

Feats:
Inspired blade bonus: Weapon finesse (rapier)
Inspired blade bonus: Weapon focus (rapier)
1st: Noble Scion of the arts
Human: Fencing grace
3rd: Steadfast personality
Swash combat 4: Combat reflexes (?)
5th: Arcane strike
7th level and beyond: ???

The 4 first level feats are locks (I know Noble scion of the arts is not optimal, but it has some nice fluff, fits the background and is quite decent for a bard). After, that I'm not so sure. Steadfast determination is a nice boost to will saves, combat reflexes would allow opportune parry and riposte more often and arcane strike is going to scale pretty well and I don't have a whole lot to do with swift action. However, I don't have a whole lot of feats that help the bard side of things so far.
As for the spells, I really don't know the bard spell list and would appreciate suggestions.
The plan with this character is to be able to support and melee decently. Strategy would be buffing for a round (be it with spells, bardic performances, or both), then go into melee. As far as I know, the other players are roling a Brawler and a Warpriest (sacred fist), with one or two yet to determine their character (I've heard the rumors of a wizard).
What say you, Playground?

exelsisxax
2016-11-21, 10:43 AM
Why are you gestalting without the whole party being gestalt? "allowing" gestalt seems like a non-starter. Those other people need to gestalt if you do.

You also aren't clear on what you intend to be doing with this character, and how this gestalt is supposed to be doing that. You just mention buffing once. That's not enough direction.

Long_shanks
2016-11-21, 11:09 AM
Forgot the part where everybody will be level 3 and I'll be level 1. I don't know how the progression is going to be going forward but the DM (who's a great friend of mine) told me he's used this system before with another group without a hitch. I've played with him as DM a few times, I've just never used that option that I knew was there. Also, our group is not a stickler about level/power discrepancies.
Anyways, I'm still a bit hazy about the role I would fill. I'd like to be able to melee and buff efficiently. The concern that I have for the moment is that most of my feats are not helping the bard side (aside from Noble scion, which grants 3 rounds of bardic performance and some small skill bonuses). I'm going to be a competent combattant in a level or two (1 HD is going to be a challenge for now) but the DM has told me that the first few sessions are going to be more RP-focused than combat-focused. However, I don't know if I'll be able to support efficiently with the build I have now. Should I go for lingering song at level 3? And what nice buff spells does the bard have (aside from classics like haste)?

exelsisxax
2016-11-21, 11:32 AM
So that's pretty odd, but alright.

Unfortunately, it's going to leave you with some problems. For starters, you'll never be a truly efficient or powerful buffer. You're 2 CL behind everybody else. Haste is great, but it's much less great when you get it 2 levels after someone else in your party did and/or it's not so important because boots of haste. Similarly, your combat value will suffer from being behind everyone in BAB that isn't a full caster, forever. You'll also have 2 levels fewer of skill ranks and lower max on skills. You will never be as good as a full bard at buffing or supporting. When you are behind in levels like that, buffs are much less relevant to your allies. You're looking at a lot of combats stuck at +1 to X for bardic performance when your party has graduated on to much nicer things. The main issue is that your party will be protecting and supporting you, who can't take a hit.

Long_shanks
2016-11-21, 11:48 AM
Yeah, I get all of that, and I know I'll be really bad at low levels (it's going to be a challenge, and I do love challenges :smallwink:). I thought about going magician bard in order to offset the CL loss, but that would have meant losing Inspire courage in a group that is mostly combat oriented.
I'm not looking to change the classes, and I am fully aware that it is not optimal and has it's caveats. If it doesn't work, I'm just going to reroll something. It's not a big deal for me or my group I would only like some ideas of feats and spells that I have overlooked. I'm not as well-versed in the Pathfinder bard than I was in the 3.5 one (hello, words of creation/dragonfire inspiration...)

Geddy2112
2016-11-22, 11:23 PM
So are those ability scores rolled or bought?
With charmed life, you don't need steadfast personality right away, and could arguably skip it. Combat reflexes is far more critical to avoid death.

Lingering performance should be in your build ASAP, it is crucial for performance cycling once you can start performing as a move/swift action, but even at lower levels it helps Incase you get stunned, knocked out, asleep, what have you. You can take arcane strike anytime, it is useful from levels 1-20 and the only swift action you will be using is to start performing, but you will be casting with your standard as well. If you ever need a feat, you can't go wrong with improved initiative.

For spells, detect magic and either light/dancing lights are must have cantrips. Mending and prestidigitation are my other two cantrip suggestions but most are good. You will be behind on spells but with good charisma don't shy from spells requiring saves. Silent image is arguably your best 1st level spell, as is charm person if you can diplomacy your way through situations. Timely inspiration is a good buff spell because it is retroactive. Disguise self, grease, and vanish are also good first level picks. For second level, invisibility and mirror image are key-the latter will help you go toe to toe with stronger enemies. Blistering invective is amazing if you maxed out intimidate,d darkness, glitter dust and silence are great utility and combat manipulation spells. You can take tongues or comprehend languages but wands or scrolls might serve better. Obviously haste at 3rd level, unless the wizard does not mind casting it each combat.

Long_shanks
2016-11-23, 10:41 AM
Thanks Geddy! I'll look into those spells tonight.
Yes, those stats are rolled (and the human +2 is already placed in charisma).
I had not considered charmed life when I thought of steadfast personality; it could be pushed back. I continued to work on the build and I had Improved initiative later on (at 7th) but I think with what you said I'll take it at level 3. The party will like me even more if I can buff them in the first round.
I also thought about taking Fast learner in order to get both a favered class bonus and the bonus skill point at each level (pending GM approval).
Also, is Lunge worth it at higher levels? Having a 10ft threat range with a lot of AoO looks pretty sweet.

Geddy2112
2016-11-23, 09:28 PM
Very welcome! Steadfast personality is probably more important than lunge since you will be behind in levels, but lunge is really good with combat reflexes. Both are good neither critical.
Improved initiative is key for you because you cast and buff, both once you perform as a move action. The wizard will also be casting key spells but if you cover buffs they can cover control and other spells you can't get. When you get swashbucklers initiative at level 3 and having good Dex you will have a good chance of going first.

You should be alright without fast learner, you get 6 ranks+2 from int mod per level, +1 for being human. If you get a wizard you can split the knowledge duties-max 1 or 2 of the big 4, the wizard gets the others, you each put 1 rank in every other knowledge for class bonus- their high int and your bardic knowledge will cover you. If the warpriest is nice they will max religion. Your versatile performance will help you max social skills and save ranks, most importantly giving you sense motive off charisma. Then max use magic device, perception, and maybe stealth and acrobatics. At least three ranks in acrobatics to take advantage of fight defensively, a rank in each other class skill when you can. Should have enough skills to go around.

If you really wanna get powerful, use eldritch heritage to get a familiar. Requires skill focus in a knowledge of your choice(pick one of the big 4) but you can get a familiar, for +4 initiative and eventually an improved one-pick something that can speak and has hands to use magic devices, also you want flight, commune as an sla and some decent constant/at will zoa's.

Arcane strike is okay, but at 3rd level you get menacing swordplay, giving you swift action intimidate checks when you hit something. Not as powerful at higher levels when fear immunity is everywhere, but your intimidate should be maxed and it is a decent freebie debuff instead of taking a feat for more damage. Let the brawler and warpriest do the heavy damage.

If you get a wizard, take the spell arcane concordance- it buffs both of your spells considerably and gives you early entry into all day buffs with extend spell. Since you are taking lingering performance, consider the "finale" spells- you can afford to instant action cast and end your performance, often saving the day. Saving finale in particular is life and death.

Enchantment and illusion spells are your most numerous in your list and almost all allow saves. Spell focus: illusion/enchantment is decent if you end up using those schools a lot.

Shadowbard is a must have spell when you can get it, as it allows two performances at once. You also probably want the shadow conjuration/evocation/enchantment spells for sheer versatiliy.

exelsisxax
2016-11-23, 09:49 PM
Lunge does not benefit AoO in any way. The range increase is only during your turn, the AC loss is until your next turn. If you want to make use of combat reflexes better you need enlarge person or equivalent - unless you can somehow make a reach weapon work on a swashbuckler.

Long_shanks
2016-11-23, 10:01 PM
Thanks again for the suggestions.
Unfortunately, I learned that lunge doesn't work with AoO's, so it looses most of its utility (Edit: Ninja'd). I was getting around to throwing arcane strike out as well, keeping precise strike, inspire courage and fencing grace as damage boosters.
I had thought about eldritch heritage, but the two feats were hard to fit in there. I could drop Noble scion at level one for the human's focused study (it could mesh pretty well with versatile performance too). Yeah, I think I'll do that.

So far, my (projected) feats are:
Inspired blade 1 - Weapon finesse
Inspired blade 1 - Weapon focus (rapier)
Human 1 - Skill focus (knowledge arcana)
1st - Fencing grace
3rd - Improved initiative
Swash 4 - Combat reflexes
Swash bonus 5 - Improved critical
5th - Lingering song
7th - Eldritch heritage (arcane bond)
Swash 8 - Critical focus
Human 8 - Skill focus (perform sing)
9th - Steadfast determination
11th - Improved eldritch heritage (New arcana, some tasties from the sorc/wizard list) or Improved familiar
Swash 12 - Critical versatility

As for the spells, I'll go with charm person and silent image to begin with, and I'll adapt the further choices with the game's evolution.

Geddy2112
2016-11-23, 10:32 PM
Oh yeah forgot lunge wears off after your turn ends, derp.
Also forgot you qualify for critical versatiliy: was about to suggest a critical feat but you have the fighter levels and the race, good call.

Only change I would make is taking prodigy over skill focus- you can get a bonus to two perform skills instead of 1, getting a bonus to more skills, albeit slightly less than skill focus.

Long_shanks
2016-11-23, 10:38 PM
I don't think Prodigy qualifies as a skill focus. Focused study replaces the human bonus feat with a skill focus feat at 1st, 8th and 16th level. I could ask the DM as the feat are really close, but I wouldn't mind just plain ol' skill focus.

Geddy2112
2016-11-23, 11:31 PM
Oh yeah you are getting the skill focus from the alt human trait. Then yeah it's a freebie not a chosen feat. Carry on