a good build.

[urmom]

so i am in a new campaign just about to be started and i wanted to build a good dragon class. my thought was to start as a dragon born of bahamut then prestige into the dragon deciple class, just not sure what base class and race. the LV we are starting at is lv 2 (i know it would take a while to get to prestige but i want to know where i want to go with my character class wise). the starting gold is at 400 and he said as far a character limitations he only said "basics. nothing stupidly outlandish" (i know very vague) thanks a lot in advance

[John Longarrow]

Just so you know, from an RP perspective dragon born of bahamut isn't always a good choice. If your DM is like me then they will insist you are out looking for evil dragons (as specified in the template) and will remove it if you don't go hunting dragons (as specified in the template.

You may want to talk to the rest of the party before you take something that can center your whole campaign on dragon hunting. Either that or accept when your DM warns you to go looking for dragons or loose your template.

[urmom]

true, is there a better choice of a class to take then what are your suggestions on a good class build

[DarkSoul]

Dragonfire Adept. Race doesn't matter so much, but human for feat and skills is always a good choice if you don't already have something specific in mind.

[John Longarrow]

True question should be "What has your party decided they need?"

If you build a good character that doesn't match the needs of the party you will run into lots of in game issues. If you know what role or roles your character needs to fill that will make it a lot easier to give you advice.

As an example, if the party decides they need 1 member to handle traps, 1 to handle tracking, 1 to handle healing, 2 to handle melee, 4 to handle ranged combat, and 2 to handle arcane magic you will need to decide what spot(s) you will be filling. Most characters fall into more than one role in a group, at least if your putting together a very functional group.

[Nifft]

ITT: urmom has a good build.


so i am in a new campaign just about to be started and i wanted to build a good dragon class. my thought was to start as a dragon born of bahamut then prestige into the dragon deciple class, just not sure what base class and race. the LV we are starting at is lv 2 (i know it would take a while to get to prestige but i want to know where i want to go with my character class wise). the starting gold is at 400 and he said as far a character limitations he only said "basics. nothing stupidly outlandish" (i know very vague) thanks a lot in advance

1/ Don't use Dragon Disciple unless you are using it on a primary-melee character. Spells & magic are usually better.

2/ Dragonfire Adept (from Dragon Magic) is a very fun class, especially with the Entangling Exhalation feat (from Races of the Dragon).

3/ You can use the Entangling Exhalation trick with Dragonborn who pick the breath weapon ability, too. Dragonborn can be fun, though at low levels the low-distance breath weapon is frustratingly difficult to use -- at 2nd level, your breath weapon would be a 10 ft. line, which means you could just 5 ft. step and melee attack instead.

[urmom]

my party hasn't picked their classes yet and when i asked my DM to clerify on the "outlandish" classes he said he doesnt care too much as long as we can play it and dont need help with leveling and such but also no dragons as it wouldnt work with his story.. any suggestions on a good race and class build for lv 2

[ExLibrisMortis]

Hmm.

Dragonfire adepts are very dragon-y, they effectively become mini-dragons.
Paladins can ride dragons at higher levels. Have a look at the Draconomicon, page 136 (skip to 139 for paladins specifically).

If you're in for a more complicated build, a Zhentarim Skymage can get a really strong dragon follower, but you have to wait until level 6 at least, and meet all sorts of requirements (spellcasting and feats). That sort of build really lends itself to pure charisma, so you'd want to have something to capitalize on that (charisma-based casting, Divine Grace, Turn Undead etcetera).

[urmom]

Hmm.

Dragonfire adepts are very dragon-y, they effectively become mini-dragons.
Paladins can ride dragons at higher levels. Have a look at the Draconomicon, page 136 (skip to 139 for paladins specifically).

If you're in for a more complicated build, a Zhentarim Skymage can get a really strong dragon follower, but you have to wait until level 6 at least, and meet all sorts of requirements (spellcasting and feats). That sort of build really lends itself to pure charisma, so you'd want to have something to capitalize on that (charisma-based casting, Divine Grace, Turn Undead etcetera).

like i said i would have liked to but i can use any dragon class or anything with a dragon.

[John Longarrow]

I'd suggest before building a character you talk to the rest of the party and to your DM. See what your DM suggests is needed for the game and then talk to your fellow players about who wants to play what roles.

It would be horrible if everyone built a solid melee tank just to discover that you are going to face a LOT of undead. Check with the DM about what type(s) of stories they are planning to spin and then see what is needed for a party to survive and thrive in such an environment.

This means you may not be building the character you want right now, but instead one that will meet the game needs. That would be a much more survivable build that can flourish. If you just build a character in a vacuum, you won't wind up with a party that feels organic. You'll wind up with random people tossed together hoping they can work it out.

[Nifft]

Can you ask your DM what "not too outlandish" means?

Specifically, there are some very fun and not broken classes outside of Core. Here are some examples:

- Dragonfire Adept, from Dragon Magic. It sounds very close to what you want. You'd do very well to just build a straight-up Dragonfire Adept 20. In some regards, this is very basic -- no PrC, no special races required, and only 2 books outside of Core necessary (Dragon Magic and Races of the Dragon).

- Swordsage, from Tome of Battle. The idea here is that you take a lot of Desert Wind fire attacks and theme them as dragon-fire. Many of them are already themed like that, for example Hatchling's Flame makes a cone of fire. Just say it comes from your mouth. You also get stances where you hover on a cushion of air -- you could say that stance gives you flaming dragon wings, instead. It's a class about supernatural martial arts, and you could very easily make the supernatural elements be about dragons. (Don't take non-thematic stuff, of course. So the Tiger Claw stuff would be fine, since that's all about attacking with lots of weapons, which is exactly what a dragon does: claw/claw/bite/wing/wing/tail. But the Shadow Hand stuff would probably not be in-theme, so just ignore it. Stone Dragon is in-theme and good for you. Etc.)

- Warblade, also from Tome of Battle. This is more about emulating a dragon's melee fighting style. Go for a two-weapon style (Tiger Claw), use Diamond Mind and Iron Heart to be tough as a dragon and ignore petty magic, and use White Raven to inspire those around you.

- Totemist, from Magic of Incarnum, allows you to fight exactly like a dragon: claws, bites, wing and tail attacks, Fear when you charge or attack, plus some breath weapons. It's not as strong as a Sorcerer, but it can be very fun.

- Sorcerer can be sufficiently dragon-ish, if you have enough non-Core support. If I wanted to make a Dragon-themed Sorcerer, I'd probably look into:
* Draconic Heritage (C.Arcane)
* Draconic Breath (C.Arcane)
* Spells from Dragon Magic and Spell Compendium
* One of the feats that gives you more spells known, or maybe a few levels of Sand Shaper

- Druids can turn into dragons at level 12 if you have access to a feat from Draconomicon. That's pretty great.

- A level 3 spellcaster with the Winter's Blast [Reserve] feat (from C.Mage) and at least one [Cold] spell prepared has a cone-shaped attack at will. You could theme that as a breath weapon. Druids have some 2nd level [Cold] spells, so that's a good standby until you hit level 12 and can turn into a real dragon.

- Clerics can do the Winter's Blast trick too. A Cleric of Tiamat with the Initiate of Tiamat feat (from Dragon Magic) can turn into an Aspect of Tiamat at level 15. There are a bunch of other dragon-themed Initiate feats in Dragon Magic which allow different dragon-ish behavior on the part of Clerics. For example, there's one which allows you to take Sorcerer-only [Draconic] feats, so you could turn spell-slots into breath weapons or whatever. It's not the strongest way to use a Cleric, but it might be sufficiently thematic.

[John Longarrow]

Nifft,
so you consider crusader broken? :D

[Nifft]

Nifft,
so you consider crusader broken? :D

Nope, I just consider it less dragon-ish than the other two. :)

Crusader is a great class for being a front-line melee leader who wears heavy armor & heals allies. I consider it a fantastic Paladin replacement for my own games.

[ExLibrisMortis]

like i said i would have liked to but i can use any dragon class or anything with a dragon.
Then be a dragonborn paladin of Bahamut, the god of good dragons, taking the first substitution level (Races of the Dragon, page 108 - don't use the others) to get detect dragonblood. Add the Unearthed Arcana variant on page 58, which grants you Favoured Enemy (as a ranger). Pick FE (dragon), and now you're Bahamut's own dragon hunter, smiting evil dragons left and right, riding your own golden dragon through the sky (starting at level 9, anyway, if you can get a size-increasing spell on your dragon). I mean, it doesn't get much more dragon-y than that.

[urmom]

Then be a dragonborn paladin of Bahamut, the god of good dragons, taking the first substitution level (Races of the Dragon, page 108 - don't use the others) to get detect dragonblood. Add the Unearthed Arcana variant on page 58, which grants you Favoured Enemy (as a ranger). Pick FE (dragon), and now you're Bahamut's own dragon hunter, smiting evil dragons left and right, riding your own golden dragon through the sky (starting at level 9, anyway, if you can get a size-increasing spell on your dragon). I mean, it doesn't get much more dragon-y than that.

he vetod dragonborn too. trust me it would have been my next choice haha

[urmom]

im more or less looking for a tank class that could also back up the other party members, and doesnt have to be dragon related. i had an idea to be a dragon class or dragon like but all dragon and dragon like classes have been denied.

[LordOfCain]

Bard with dragon fire inspiration? Crusader? Knight?

[John Longarrow]

To support the party, how about a Crusader/Bard? Crusader for tanking and bard for support?

[Menzath]

Okay so your DM has said nothing dragony now, do you have another concept you wish to pursue, or maybe a little character background to set us down a path of build insanity?

Edit:serves me right for not reloading the page. Hmm beefy support. That could be one of those crazy aura builds I've seen around. Or maybe a MoMF wizard(edit- what am I smoking master transmogrifist), battle field control and beat stick rolled into one.
A crusader is defiantly beefy, and a persist spell cleric has the buffs.
You could be a little less beef and be a sword sage for that fun.

[Ywvbevlin]

Maybe be a fighter with high constitution and take some feats like doge and goad

[urmom]

any one have a really good prestige class they have tried or wanted to try?

[John Longarrow]

Ruby Knight Vindicator...
Abjurant Champion...
Incantrix...


Depends on what you really want your character to do. At 2nd level you have plenty of time to choose what you want to play.

[Nifft]

any one have a really good prestige class they have tried or wanted to try?

Did you pick a base class and/or a party role?

We'd be delighted to help you in your chosen direction, but you do need to pick a direction.

[CaPtMalHammer]

A couple of ways you can go. Dragon Shaman are ok. Not a tier 1 class etc but depending on the OP of the game it may not matter. They can be ok spot healers, with the right feats and things can be an ok off-tank style build. good for flanking etc with great dragon theme.


Could run a Sorcerer Gish build where you are a melee caster type with dragon heritage feats. or even a blaster or battle control sorcerer with dragon heritage feats for flavor.

Bahamat Favored Soul could be fun not as thematic other then your deity being a dragon. but you do get wings in later levels:)

Dragon disciple is fine if spell casting is not your thing in which case I would look at maybe Duskblade into Dragon Disciple. allows you to cast things like True Strike and then channel a touch spell through your attacks.

On the same vein. Monk into Dragon disciple with a small dip into sorcerer for requirements. Unarmed strike build.

Dragonscale Bard would be cool to. Could sing songs of dragons.

[urmom]

anyone have thoughts on a warforged as a race? i was thinking about playing as a warforged fighter then go into a warforged juggernaut. any thoughts?

[Nifft]

anyone have thoughts on a warforged as a race? i was thinking about playing as a warforged fighter then go into a warforged juggernaut. any thoughts?

Warforged is a good race.

Fighter is a terrible class.

[rrwoods]

Since it seems like you're looking for someone to just throw an idea at you:

Barbarian 1/Fighter 4/Warforged Juggernaut 5.

If it's not "too outlandish", take the Spirit Lion Totem ACF from complete champion. (In a nutshell: lose fast movement, but you can make a full attack instead of a normal attack when charging. This doesn't do anything until level 6 but it's worth it.) If you can't, no big deal; rage and a d12 hit die at level 1 are worth it.

In your fighter levels, pick up three bonus fears that do things you want. Power Attack is a good start, though you may want that at level 1.