Wild Shape Enhancement on a Totem Druid (Dragon #335)

[Nifft]

Can a Totem Druid benefit from feats like Dragon Wild Shape or Aberration Wild Shape?

[eggynack]

Doesn't look that way. Totem druids don't apparently have wild shape, or an ability that is considered wild shape for these purposes. Their ability uses the same rules as wild shape, but it seems like the existing rules exist on a layer beneath the, "This is wild shape," rule.

[Nifft]

Doesn't look that way. Totem druids don't apparently have wild shape, or an ability that is considered wild shape for these purposes. Their ability uses the same rules as wild shape, but it seems like the existing rules exist on a layer beneath the, "This is wild shape," rule.
Hmm.

Totem Shape says: "Totem shape uses the same rules as wild shape, althought a druid can only take the form of her totem animal."

Also, the class gives Natural Spell, which only works with Wild Shape, so the RAI argument would seem to be in favor of Totem Shape == Wild Shape (except as noted).

So... what do you think would be evidence against Totem Shape qualifying as Wild Shape?

You've studied Druid stuff a lot more deeply than I have, so I'm very interested in your take.

Thanks, -N

[eggynack]

My thinking is that it depends on how broadly you read the term "rules". There's one line of thought that says that every single thing associated with wild shape is essential to the rules of wild shape, and there's another, the one I'm suggesting, that says that the name itself is not strictly a component of the rules of wild shape. Because, arguably, the way the game works is that you have this arbitrary game object, wild shape, and then you have all the rules associated with that game object, and the latter set is all the junk after the words "wild shape". Dunno if that line of thinking holds together perfectly though.

[Nifft]

My thinking is that it depends on how broadly you read the term "rules". There's one line of thought that says that every single thing associated with wild shape is essential to the rules of wild shape, and there's another, the one I'm suggesting, that says that the name itself is not strictly a component of the rules of wild shape. Because, arguably, the way the game works is that you have this arbitrary game object, wild shape, and then you have all the rules associated with that game object, and the latter set is all the junk after the words "wild shape". Dunno if that line of thinking holds together perfectly though.

Yeah.

The test case that I think pushes the necessary interpretation in favor of "Totem Shape == Wild Shape (except as noted)" would be the fact that the Totem Druid gets Natural Spell at level 2.

It seems strongly implied that the Totem Druid is intended to gain the benefit of Natural Spell.

Natural Spell says that it works with Wild Shape.

So, it seems to me that there is a very strong case that stuff which interfaces with Wild Shape must also interface with Totem Shape.

[eggynack]

Yeah.

The test case that I think pushes the necessary interpretation in favor of "Totem Shape == Wild Shape (except as noted)" would be the fact that the Totem Druid gets Natural Spell at level 2.

It seems strongly implied that the Totem Druid is intended to gain the benefit of Natural Spell.

Natural Spell says that it works with Wild Shape.

So, it seems to me that there is a very strong case that stuff which interfaces with Wild Shape must also interface with Totem Shape.
On that point, I figure that you're generally fine once you already have the ability, with the tricky bit being whether this qualifies for the purposes of prerequisites.

[Nifft]

On that point, I figure that you're generally fine once you already have the ability, with the tricky bit being whether this qualifies for the purposes of prerequisites.

The thing is, Natural Spell's benefit only applies if Totem Shape qualifies as Wild Shape.

So I think it must mean that Totem Shape qualifies as Wild Shape.

[DrMotives]

Looking over the totem druid, I think OP has the right idea, although the write-up could be edited for clarity a bit more (as frequently the case with magazine articles). The one caveat about grabbing aberration or dragon wild shape is, while the totem druid counts as 2 levels higher to wild shape into her totem animal, that bonus would not apply to new shapes gained by feats.

[Nifft]

Looking over the totem druid, I think OP has the right idea, although the write-up could be edited for clarity a bit more (as frequently the case with magazine articles). The one caveat about grabbing aberration or dragon wild shape is, while the totem druid counts as 2 levels higher to wild shape into her totem animal, that bonus would not apply to new shapes gained by feats.

Thanks, and yeah I agree about the 2 levels. You should NOT get that for non-Totem forms.

Also, if the feat says you can only access forms of the sizes available to your Wild Shape (like Aberration Wild Shape does), then I think you can only use forms the exact same size as your Totem.